Balance being legal while cruise and dig stay banned is kinda strange. But these unbans don't change much of the testing many of us has been doing since the 20 life change which is both nice and disappointing at the same time. Glad 20 life is here to stay though.
I gues we'll see, but to me it seems like a 2-mana mini-cataclysm for Geist, Jenara and Doran, which seems pretty busted.
It's really not. The more you have on board, the more I will balance to (or you will shrink to). It's good in Geist don't get me wrong, but not strictly so much better than Clysm. It is, however, better with a superfriends shell by virtue.
And that's why I'm looking forward to using it in Alesha. Finally, a Clysm that doesn't knock out my walkers and vehicles.
I gues we'll see, but to me it seems like a 2-mana mini-cataclysm for Geist, Jenara and Doran, which seems pretty busted.
It's really not. The more you have on board, the more I will balance to (or you will shrink to). It's good in Geist don't get me wrong, but not strictly so much better than Clysm. It is, however, better with a superfriends shell by virtue.
And that's why I'm looking forward to using it in Alesha. Finally, a Clysm that doesn't knock out my walkers and vehicles.
The good part about it on geist is that it costs only 2 mana. Being able to float mana and bounce whatever before/after the balance is key. Also, not checking swords or auras is nice... It's better than Cataclysm.
I gues we'll see, but to me it seems like a 2-mana mini-cataclysm for Geist, Jenara and Doran, which seems pretty busted.
It's really not. The more you have on board, the more I will balance to (or you will shrink to). It's good in Geist don't get me wrong, but not strictly so much better than Clysm. It is, however, better with a superfriends shell by virtue.
And that's why I'm looking forward to using it in Alesha. Finally, a Clysm that doesn't knock out my walkers and vehicles.
The good part about it on geist is that it costs only 2 mana. Being able to float mana and bounce whatever before/after the balance is key. Also, not checking swords or auras is nice... It's better than Cataclysm.
Even if you bounce to hand, Balance is gonna make you discard down still. Although it provides options for discards, I guess.
Anyone who doesn't understand Balance's power should really stop and study more Magic history - because it seems to me they are people who never witnessed the card's raw power. What really amazes me is that the Committee is actually part of this population of misinformed players. Well... actually I should probably rephrase that because it's becoming really hard for the DC to surprise me when it comes to making stupid decisions.
Anyone who doesn't understand Balance's power should really stop and study more Magic history - because it seems to me they are people who never witnessed the card's raw power. What really amazes me is that the Committee is actually part of this population of misinformed players. Well... actually I should probably rephrase that because it's becoming really hard for the DC to surprise me when it comes to making stupid decisions.
Balance is absolutely fine in Vintage and that is a format with obscene fast mana. It will be fine in a singleton format with no such artifact advantage.
It's more likely that the RC is not misinformed but looking at it from a different perspective than you. That doesn't mean anyone's decision is "stupid"
Again. How about everyone plays with the changes before denouncing them, and if we are going to attack the changes make sure you come with current and tested evidence.
Yeah yeah a card restricted in vintage and banned in legacy must be perfect to use!
I got some top 8 on GPs so can I say about the card?
Being a one-of, maybee it won't be broken, but balance means it is a 2 mana wrath and makes the already super tier 1 Geist even stronger, T3 Geist into a T4 balance + removal/Jitte, looks like a really destructive play, or simply a Wrath of God for 2.
I know you have to play the card and see its effects to say it is abusive or not... But I'm kind of tired that Duel Commander is so unstable, "let's try this out!", "now lets see if I ban this, unban this, change life totals and see what will happen", "Okay lets unban a really strong card just to see what will happen!". What is exactly the healthy part about unbanning balance? Just because I want Geist to have all weapons possible? Why is it healthy for a format to have Cataclysm, balance... Things are simply not reasonable, its not a card that brings fun interactions, used right, its a 2 mana wrath that can hit lands also.
M aybe I can be wrong about it, and it doesn't get that played much, but I don't see a real reason to have it in the format, it simply goes against the "new spirit" of being in favor of more creature based strategies.
That's a good point, Raizen; the current unban methodology does seem, on its surface, very careless.
Can anyone from the committee confirm to what degree things like Necropotence/Balance are tested prior to the unban decision? As someone whose professional life is primarily in data analysis, I know I'd have a lot more confidence in these very drastic decisions if we had some insight into the tests preceding them, if any: data, methodologies, time frame, measurable changes to color-pie representations, noted "making the rich richer" effects—anything really.
For that matter, is there a sense of tacit desperation among committee members? I don't recall reading anything official as commentary on (what appears to be) a dwindling community. I could be wrong about that assessment, but I must admit that my confidence in the immediate future of this format is very shaken and I wonder if that's shared by the decision makers.
When they announced the changed to 20HP, people were in an uproar about how aggro was going to dominate the format. Then they unban a 2 mana pseudo-wrath and suddenly people are worried aggro won't be able to cope?
Yes, it is a very powerful card. However, you can only have 1 copy in a 99 card deck and if you're playing draw-go you'll most likely have to discard from it. I don't know, I think we all need to play with it before we start calling the RC incompetent. I would assume they tested all of these unbans before announcing them...
Anyone who doesn't understand Balance's power should really stop and study more Magic history - because it seems to me they are people who never witnessed the card's raw power. What really amazes me is that the Committee is actually part of this population of misinformed players. Well... actually I should probably rephrase that because it's becoming really hard for the DC to surprise me when it comes to making stupid decisions.
I have, yes. And it's really no stronger than Clysm, CMC notwithstanding. It outshines the rest in an artifact mana deck, but there is not an artifact mana deck anywhere in Duel-Commander, namely as the usual suspects for such a deck are [for good reason] banned. This will be an efficient sweeper, but not an OP sweeper.
It's restricted, right? Isn't that the opposite of "absolutely fine"? It's been restricted for over 20 years.
Ponder and Brainstorm are also restricted in Vintage. Does that mean Brainstorm is "too powerful" for Duel-Commander too? See why straw-man arguments suck?
Ponder and Brainstorm are also restricted in Vintage. Does that mean Brainstorm is "too powerful" for Duel-Commander too? See why straw-man arguments suck?
You're kidding, right? That statement is literally a straw-man argument. I never in any way said that "too powerful in vintage" = "too powerful in DC".
Jivanmukta very clearly said that "Balance is absolutely fine in Vintage" and I very clearly argued against that. There is no straw-man here.
Beyond your unwarranted and unsupported personal attack, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and try to speak to the point I think you were trying to make. If he said "Ponder is absolutely fine in Vintage", I'd think that isn't a well-supported statement either, again due to its restriction.
I'm well aware that a card's power in a 1/60 format is, all else equal, not the same as its power in a 1/99 format. And I'm well aware that lack of Moxes, Sol Ring, and even Grim Monolith make Balance further underpowered in DC relative to Vintage.
I guess because I'm ticked off at your straw-man (that, in a way only Alanis could appreciate, was actually a straw-man itself!), I'll also speak to this:
it's really no stronger than Clysm, CMC notwithstanding
The foundation of Magic is mana costs. Even before the "color pie", there was mana costs. This is like saying, "A motorcycle isn't really that much faster than a Corolla, acceleration notwithstanding".
Anyone who doesn't understand Balance's power should really stop and study more Magic history - because it seems to me they are people who never witnessed the card's raw power. What really amazes me is that the Committee is actually part of this population of misinformed players. Well... actually I should probably rephrase that because it's becoming really hard for the DC to surprise me when it comes to making stupid decisions.
Balance is absolutely fine in Vintage and that is a format with obscene fast mana. It will be fine in a singleton format with no such artifact advantage.
It's more likely that the RC is not misinformed but looking at it from a different perspective than you. That doesn't mean anyone's decision is "stupid"
Again. How about everyone plays with the changes before denouncing them, and if we are going to attack the changes make sure you come with current and tested evidence.
Balance is NOT fine in Vintage. It's restricted for a reason and clearly not suitable for unrestriction. It's also not similar in power to Cataclysm because Balance has the power to be a Wrath of God or Armageddon or a Mind Twist for 2 mana. Cataclysm can't to that. If you're playing against Narset or any Voltron, for example, Cataclysm is awful. Balance is great, for 2 mana. As I said, not knowing the power of Balance makes me wonder how long have you guys being playing Magic - and I'm not trying to be arrogant here, just noting that Balance's power is historical and undeniable, but since it's been banned for ages, maybe most present players never witnessed it firsthand. At least the unban will make people witness Balance's power.
Anyone who doesn't understand Balance's power should really stop and study more Magic history - because it seems to me they are people who never witnessed the card's raw power. What really amazes me is that the Committee is actually part of this population of misinformed players. Well... actually I should probably rephrase that because it's becoming really hard for the DC to surprise me when it comes to making stupid decisions.
You call people uninformed without providing any evidence and having a track record of 4 tourneys where u reported yourself as the winner.
I repeat again that that i think the uninformed person here is you.
I really would like to see you taking part in a bigger tourney.
I think you wont even get close to top 8.
I can never stop enjoying people that only comment to attack others and bring nothing to the table. Seriously, this feeds my happiness meter. I really don't care how you think of me as a player. I only reported those tournaments because I wanted to be the first winning player to report both Daretti and Rashmi decks, since they were original brews of mine - therefore I valued being the first one there and highly prepared for FNMs the day the cards were legal. Rio de Janeiro, where I live, has few DC tournaments and repost mostly none of them, mainly because no one cares to gather decklists. Even larger, 20-40 players tournaments I played in São Paulo or GPs or whatever, were never reported (I feel this is a global issue with DC, which makes tracking dominant decks even harder).
Your assessments about my level as a player are laughable and purely personal attacks that I really don't care to address. You can keep your "throne"; I'm just here to discuss how Balance is unbalanced and why I'm going to play it every tournament from now on until it get's banned again - just like I did with Sensei's Divining Top.
PS: also, guys come on. Saying a card should be unbanned because it's 1 in 99 is the worst argument ever and can be said about every single card, even Black Lotus. There are cards that are less powerful in 99-card decks (like Dig Through Time for example), but that's only because their EFFECT is highly diminished by the high number of cards in the deck.
See, you just don't like me on a personal level, which I don't care really. But your arguments are all easily crumbled.
You want proof that Balance is overpowered? Just cast it. I have no idea how to prove it to you any other way. I thought 23 years of Magic could do so. So yeah, if you don't know its power, maybe you've never cast it enough - which can be a thing since it's banned almost everywhere (so NOT a personal attack on you, see, I'm just saying that there's a reason newer players don't know the power of Balance). For you, as a player, to not know that, I can understand. For the Committee to not know that, I call that stupid since they should know better.
And I'm not calling you asking for proof a personal attack. I call it when you say stuff like "You had just 4 wins reported on MTGTOP8" which means nothing, proves or disproves nothing, since you well know Duel Commander is one of the least reported formats since a lot of tournaments don't ask for lists. This is not a curriculum dispute, we're not applying for a "Best DC player" job.
I think the Committee is doing a terrible job this whole year, and I'm not alone in thinking that. You may like what they're doing, it's your prerogative, but it's also mine to be angry and astonished at what I see as their incompetence to deal with the format's issues.
Now, I put effort and time in this answers because I respect people's opinions. Give me an answer that addresses what I said, and not just inflammatory 3 line posts, alright?
I also generally want to use this opportunity to invite everybody who atm feels not represented by the RC to install cockatrice and play online.
You can see problems of the competitive dc there first hand in action.
Also you can personally speak to the RC there since they can be seen there too.
This is the way to go. People need to play the format more and complain/fight about it less.
Monowhite or Boros aggro at the very least can play Balance as a Mind Sludge against control when they're way behind to get them out of unwinnable situations. Imagine having overextended only to get hit unfairly by a turn 3 Toxic Deluge/Radiant Flames (feelsbad), and casting Balance with 1-2 cards left while the control player has 5-6 cards. That's not too bad right? Even feels fair.
ALright, THANK YOU Magicmarvin91 for a long answer that's not just bully talk. I loved it. See, now I can even respect your opinion without just hating you for being obnoxious. Now I see you're a DC Player, not just a troll. Thanks, really.
You see, there are many types of Magic knowledge. Although I agree with you that tournament results is one of the ways to recognize knowledgeable people (how can you now respect people like Alexander "newtraderdu78" Loskoutoff or Moondust just by looking at their MTGTOP8 results), I disagree that's the only way to do that. Also, although I'm the first one to say we need to take mtgtop8's results in high consideration for bans/unbans, I know there's probably less than 50% of the real tournament results posted there. I'll give you an example: Grand Prix São Paulo hosted 2 Duel Commander Tournaments last year and 3 this year. They were medium/big tournaments, with 30-50 players attendance. They never asked for lists, so there's no report of them anywhere. So anything I say here is my word against yours, which is a bad place for a serious discussion to be. I could say I won all the 5 of them undefeated, or I could say I played only 2 of them, won one and got 9 on the other after conceding the game for prize structure issues. What does it matter? I could even ask you the same, since all I got is 1 result back from you at mtgtop8, but I don't think that information ammounts to anything - I don't think that's an argument to say who knows best about a format or not. So it doesn't matter to me, ok? All I can tell you is that I've been playing Magic since '94 and competitively since '01, between Extended, Vintage, Legacy and DC - mostly dedicated to Vintage and DC. I can't give you proof of almost any tournament results, because my love for Vintage and Duel Commander makes my record almost entirely unsanctioned. So if that's what will take for you to respect, I'm fine understanding you never will.
I did report those 4 tournaments myself, and I didn't even bother to report other wins I had on those stores. My whole purpose of self-publishing those results, as I said, was because I valued being the first brewer to succeed with said decks (Daretti and Rashmi). If you have any doubt, you can get in contact with the store they took place (unfortunately Daretti's store is no more).
So i think its very preposterous and ignorant of you to call the RC incompetend. So its not really about the balance unban.
I am also annoyed by the way you argue. All you have done atm to discuss the banlist was yelling that balance is unbalanced.
Your only arguments are "Unbalanced!!! RC is Incompetent!!" and that its banned in all other formats.
Offering no explanation why it is banned in those formats and how this aplies to dc too.
Reasons for it to be banned in the other formats could be:
U cant play 4 balance in vintage because there is so much fast artifact mana.
In legacy because i imagine it to be broken in lands and another tool for miracle which is considered op by some people.
Besides think that the unban of balance is fine in dc due to following reasons. I cant imagine the card to be oppressive or making a deck overly powerful. Balance is in white which is one of the worst colors in dc. Also its still automatically restricted. I cant imagine a scenario where the ability to play balance will put white/x decks over the top.
Balance in dc will be a situational card for controls that is good when behind and bad when ahead.
At the moment the top deck of the dc format is titania. After the unban of balance titania will continue to remain on top i think.
But balance if i get it right is a very good card against titania since the creatures who spawn from the sacrified lands (due to balance) will die to balances further effects. This makes the card a good tool for control decks against the deck. I currently see no deck that can abuse balance that way to use it in another way. In modern there is a deck in Cascade/Restore Balance that is able to do so but is far away from oppresive.
Also i even have doubts that all control decks will play it since ull have to discard your hand when playing it against an aggro deck that has everything on the field.
You're right, it's not about just the Balance unban. I've been arguing against DC's decisions for the whole year. I don't know if you followed the topics, but they were not, by any measure you can take, just rants. Actually not even Balance's unban was just a rant, since I said the following:
It's also not similar in power to Cataclysm because Balance has the power to be a Wrath of God or Armageddon or a Mind Twist for 2 mana. Cataclysm can't to that. If you're playing against Narset or any Voltron, for example, Cataclysm is awful. Balance is great, for 2 mana. As I said, not knowing the power of Balance makes me wonder how long have you guys being playing Magic - and I'm not trying to be arrogant here, just noting that Balance's power is historical and undeniable, but since it's been banned for ages, maybe most present players never witnessed it firsthand. At least the unban will make people witness Balance's power.
But maybe that's not enough for you. Arguing in favor of Balance is kinda hard, actually, because for me it feels the same as if you were asking why Ancestral Recall is powerful. Not that Balance is as powerful an AR, but card advantage is a concept as hard to explain for people who don't grasp it as Balance. It's been a joke among my friends that DC players don't get Balance's power. The thing is, Balance is a powerhouse. You're thinking scenarios of a control deck full of cards in hand wanting to just Wrath of God away a few creatures. I'm thinking of an aggro/tempo deck with a good threat on the table using Balance for its 3 effects. Letting his threat unanswerable because it's bigger than yours, taking a few lands away from you while discarding cards from your hand at the same time, all of that for 2 mana. Don't get me wrong, Balance can be a great Wrath of God for 2 mana, but that's just the tip of its power.
I also did not say, at any time, that Balance is powerful BECAUSE it's banned everywhere else. What I said is that I understand people not realizing it's power, since by being banned everywhere, probably just a small handful of people were able to actually play the card. So it's to expect that people don't know the power of what they didn't see in action. You, for example, seem to understand that, for it to be powerful, you need to build around it (I take that by you saying it would be powerful in Lands or because of Moxen). It doesn't need any of that - it's just powerful, building around it or not.
My main criticism over Balance's unban, though, is that it's dangerous for the format (not just the card, but the decision itself). I said this about 20 life too: the format is dwindling due to the polemic changes of 2016. You may agree with those changes or not, but they were polemic. I thought changing for 20 life now, when the format needed stability, was bad - even if it was a right call. And I think unbanning a card that has a high chance of needing to be banned again in 3-6 months is a bad idea. Maybe Balance won't be that powerful in DC, or it will be one of those powerful cards we just deal with, like Survival of the Fittest. I just think we didn't need this kind of shake up right now.
I'm not just shouting "Committee is incompetent" without any reasoning. I'm saying that before 6 months of discussion here and by disagreeing with every step of them. Maybe they aren't incompetent, but I'm entitled to think so since all they've done this year seem mistakes for me. And I'm not even touching Necro/Bargain unbans, because MAYBE the 20 life really is something that'll keep them in check, although I have really high doubts about it. But since I can't really prove it, I'm not saying anything right now.
A few weeks b4 u said the same you say now about balance about Grindstone. In the following tourney noone played grinstone.For the future I also doubt the this card will put up an oppresive deck. I even doubt it will have a deck.
My main argument about Grindstone is this one: do you think Time Vault is a healthy unban? If you do, why isn't it unbanned alongside Grindstone? If you don't, why do you think Painter/Stone is ok? Grindstone's unban is, at the very least, inconsistent.
And it has natural homes. Animar already plays Painter and Trinket Mage. Daretti can use it. Jace/Teferi High Tide can use a great alternate wincon. Etc, etc. The only way I see Grinstone won't be played a lot is if the meta is dominated by decks that have shuffling Eldrazi on them. But really, we can even skip this. Just answer me the first question on why Painter/Stone is ok and Vault/Key isn't.
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Today is the day.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Balance is pretty reasonable when you're at 20 life and don't have busted fast mana to get ahead with. I'm most shocked to see Necro.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
It's really not. The more you have on board, the more I will balance to (or you will shrink to). It's good in Geist don't get me wrong, but not strictly so much better than Clysm. It is, however, better with a superfriends shell by virtue.
And that's why I'm looking forward to using it in Alesha. Finally, a Clysm that doesn't knock out my walkers and vehicles.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The good part about it on geist is that it costs only 2 mana. Being able to float mana and bounce whatever before/after the balance is key. Also, not checking swords or auras is nice... It's better than Cataclysm.
Even if you bounce to hand, Balance is gonna make you discard down still. Although it provides options for discards, I guess.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Balance is absolutely fine in Vintage and that is a format with obscene fast mana. It will be fine in a singleton format with no such artifact advantage.
It's more likely that the RC is not misinformed but looking at it from a different perspective than you. That doesn't mean anyone's decision is "stupid"
Again. How about everyone plays with the changes before denouncing them, and if we are going to attack the changes make sure you come with current and tested evidence.
It's not a highly played card there. Duel Commander is also singleton. Balance is fine until shown to be otherwise.
As potentially informed players we should not support doomsaying with absolutely no evidence.
I got some top 8 on GPs so can I say about the card?
Being a one-of, maybee it won't be broken, but balance means it is a 2 mana wrath and makes the already super tier 1 Geist even stronger, T3 Geist into a T4 balance + removal/Jitte, looks like a really destructive play, or simply a Wrath of God for 2.
I know you have to play the card and see its effects to say it is abusive or not... But I'm kind of tired that Duel Commander is so unstable, "let's try this out!", "now lets see if I ban this, unban this, change life totals and see what will happen", "Okay lets unban a really strong card just to see what will happen!". What is exactly the healthy part about unbanning balance? Just because I want Geist to have all weapons possible? Why is it healthy for a format to have Cataclysm, balance... Things are simply not reasonable, its not a card that brings fun interactions, used right, its a 2 mana wrath that can hit lands also.
M aybe I can be wrong about it, and it doesn't get that played much, but I don't see a real reason to have it in the format, it simply goes against the "new spirit" of being in favor of more creature based strategies.
Can anyone from the committee confirm to what degree things like Necropotence/Balance are tested prior to the unban decision? As someone whose professional life is primarily in data analysis, I know I'd have a lot more confidence in these very drastic decisions if we had some insight into the tests preceding them, if any: data, methodologies, time frame, measurable changes to color-pie representations, noted "making the rich richer" effects—anything really.
For that matter, is there a sense of tacit desperation among committee members? I don't recall reading anything official as commentary on (what appears to be) a dwindling community. I could be wrong about that assessment, but I must admit that my confidence in the immediate future of this format is very shaken and I wonder if that's shared by the decision makers.
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Yes, it is a very powerful card. However, you can only have 1 copy in a 99 card deck and if you're playing draw-go you'll most likely have to discard from it. I don't know, I think we all need to play with it before we start calling the RC incompetent. I would assume they tested all of these unbans before announcing them...
I have, yes. And it's really no stronger than Clysm, CMC notwithstanding. It outshines the rest in an artifact mana deck, but there is not an artifact mana deck anywhere in Duel-Commander, namely as the usual suspects for such a deck are [for good reason] banned. This will be an efficient sweeper, but not an OP sweeper.
Ponder and Brainstorm are also restricted in Vintage. Does that mean Brainstorm is "too powerful" for Duel-Commander too? See why straw-man arguments suck?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Jivanmukta very clearly said that "Balance is absolutely fine in Vintage" and I very clearly argued against that. There is no straw-man here.
Beyond your unwarranted and unsupported personal attack, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and try to speak to the point I think you were trying to make. If he said "Ponder is absolutely fine in Vintage", I'd think that isn't a well-supported statement either, again due to its restriction.
I'm well aware that a card's power in a 1/60 format is, all else equal, not the same as its power in a 1/99 format. And I'm well aware that lack of Moxes, Sol Ring, and even Grim Monolith make Balance further underpowered in DC relative to Vintage.
I guess because I'm ticked off at your straw-man (that, in a way only Alanis could appreciate, was actually a straw-man itself!), I'll also speak to this:
The foundation of Magic is mana costs. Even before the "color pie", there was mana costs. This is like saying, "A motorcycle isn't really that much faster than a Corolla, acceleration notwithstanding".
Balance is NOT fine in Vintage. It's restricted for a reason and clearly not suitable for unrestriction. It's also not similar in power to Cataclysm because Balance has the power to be a Wrath of God or Armageddon or a Mind Twist for 2 mana. Cataclysm can't to that. If you're playing against Narset or any Voltron, for example, Cataclysm is awful. Balance is great, for 2 mana. As I said, not knowing the power of Balance makes me wonder how long have you guys being playing Magic - and I'm not trying to be arrogant here, just noting that Balance's power is historical and undeniable, but since it's been banned for ages, maybe most present players never witnessed it firsthand. At least the unban will make people witness Balance's power.
I can never stop enjoying people that only comment to attack others and bring nothing to the table. Seriously, this feeds my happiness meter. I really don't care how you think of me as a player. I only reported those tournaments because I wanted to be the first winning player to report both Daretti and Rashmi decks, since they were original brews of mine - therefore I valued being the first one there and highly prepared for FNMs the day the cards were legal. Rio de Janeiro, where I live, has few DC tournaments and repost mostly none of them, mainly because no one cares to gather decklists. Even larger, 20-40 players tournaments I played in São Paulo or GPs or whatever, were never reported (I feel this is a global issue with DC, which makes tracking dominant decks even harder).
Your assessments about my level as a player are laughable and purely personal attacks that I really don't care to address. You can keep your "throne"; I'm just here to discuss how Balance is unbalanced and why I'm going to play it every tournament from now on until it get's banned again - just like I did with Sensei's Divining Top.
PS: also, guys come on. Saying a card should be unbanned because it's 1 in 99 is the worst argument ever and can be said about every single card, even Black Lotus. There are cards that are less powerful in 99-card decks (like Dig Through Time for example), but that's only because their EFFECT is highly diminished by the high number of cards in the deck.
You want proof that Balance is overpowered? Just cast it. I have no idea how to prove it to you any other way. I thought 23 years of Magic could do so. So yeah, if you don't know its power, maybe you've never cast it enough - which can be a thing since it's banned almost everywhere (so NOT a personal attack on you, see, I'm just saying that there's a reason newer players don't know the power of Balance). For you, as a player, to not know that, I can understand. For the Committee to not know that, I call that stupid since they should know better.
And I'm not calling you asking for proof a personal attack. I call it when you say stuff like "You had just 4 wins reported on MTGTOP8" which means nothing, proves or disproves nothing, since you well know Duel Commander is one of the least reported formats since a lot of tournaments don't ask for lists. This is not a curriculum dispute, we're not applying for a "Best DC player" job.
I think the Committee is doing a terrible job this whole year, and I'm not alone in thinking that. You may like what they're doing, it's your prerogative, but it's also mine to be angry and astonished at what I see as their incompetence to deal with the format's issues.
Now, I put effort and time in this answers because I respect people's opinions. Give me an answer that addresses what I said, and not just inflammatory 3 line posts, alright?
This is the way to go. People need to play the format more and complain/fight about it less.
With Partners and the new, strong 4-color commanders, nearly any deck can have access to Balance.
For what it's worth, I am 6-0 in games in which I've seen my copy of Balance thus far.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
You see, there are many types of Magic knowledge. Although I agree with you that tournament results is one of the ways to recognize knowledgeable people (how can you now respect people like Alexander "newtraderdu78" Loskoutoff or Moondust just by looking at their MTGTOP8 results), I disagree that's the only way to do that. Also, although I'm the first one to say we need to take mtgtop8's results in high consideration for bans/unbans, I know there's probably less than 50% of the real tournament results posted there. I'll give you an example: Grand Prix São Paulo hosted 2 Duel Commander Tournaments last year and 3 this year. They were medium/big tournaments, with 30-50 players attendance. They never asked for lists, so there's no report of them anywhere. So anything I say here is my word against yours, which is a bad place for a serious discussion to be. I could say I won all the 5 of them undefeated, or I could say I played only 2 of them, won one and got 9 on the other after conceding the game for prize structure issues. What does it matter? I could even ask you the same, since all I got is 1 result back from you at mtgtop8, but I don't think that information ammounts to anything - I don't think that's an argument to say who knows best about a format or not. So it doesn't matter to me, ok? All I can tell you is that I've been playing Magic since '94 and competitively since '01, between Extended, Vintage, Legacy and DC - mostly dedicated to Vintage and DC. I can't give you proof of almost any tournament results, because my love for Vintage and Duel Commander makes my record almost entirely unsanctioned. So if that's what will take for you to respect, I'm fine understanding you never will.
I did report those 4 tournaments myself, and I didn't even bother to report other wins I had on those stores. My whole purpose of self-publishing those results, as I said, was because I valued being the first brewer to succeed with said decks (Daretti and Rashmi). If you have any doubt, you can get in contact with the store they took place (unfortunately Daretti's store is no more).
You're right, it's not about just the Balance unban. I've been arguing against DC's decisions for the whole year. I don't know if you followed the topics, but they were not, by any measure you can take, just rants. Actually not even Balance's unban was just a rant, since I said the following:
But maybe that's not enough for you. Arguing in favor of Balance is kinda hard, actually, because for me it feels the same as if you were asking why Ancestral Recall is powerful. Not that Balance is as powerful an AR, but card advantage is a concept as hard to explain for people who don't grasp it as Balance. It's been a joke among my friends that DC players don't get Balance's power. The thing is, Balance is a powerhouse. You're thinking scenarios of a control deck full of cards in hand wanting to just Wrath of God away a few creatures. I'm thinking of an aggro/tempo deck with a good threat on the table using Balance for its 3 effects. Letting his threat unanswerable because it's bigger than yours, taking a few lands away from you while discarding cards from your hand at the same time, all of that for 2 mana. Don't get me wrong, Balance can be a great Wrath of God for 2 mana, but that's just the tip of its power.
I also did not say, at any time, that Balance is powerful BECAUSE it's banned everywhere else. What I said is that I understand people not realizing it's power, since by being banned everywhere, probably just a small handful of people were able to actually play the card. So it's to expect that people don't know the power of what they didn't see in action. You, for example, seem to understand that, for it to be powerful, you need to build around it (I take that by you saying it would be powerful in Lands or because of Moxen). It doesn't need any of that - it's just powerful, building around it or not.
My main criticism over Balance's unban, though, is that it's dangerous for the format (not just the card, but the decision itself). I said this about 20 life too: the format is dwindling due to the polemic changes of 2016. You may agree with those changes or not, but they were polemic. I thought changing for 20 life now, when the format needed stability, was bad - even if it was a right call. And I think unbanning a card that has a high chance of needing to be banned again in 3-6 months is a bad idea. Maybe Balance won't be that powerful in DC, or it will be one of those powerful cards we just deal with, like Survival of the Fittest. I just think we didn't need this kind of shake up right now.
I'm not just shouting "Committee is incompetent" without any reasoning. I'm saying that before 6 months of discussion here and by disagreeing with every step of them. Maybe they aren't incompetent, but I'm entitled to think so since all they've done this year seem mistakes for me. And I'm not even touching Necro/Bargain unbans, because MAYBE the 20 life really is something that'll keep them in check, although I have really high doubts about it. But since I can't really prove it, I'm not saying anything right now.
My main argument about Grindstone is this one: do you think Time Vault is a healthy unban? If you do, why isn't it unbanned alongside Grindstone? If you don't, why do you think Painter/Stone is ok? Grindstone's unban is, at the very least, inconsistent.
And it has natural homes. Animar already plays Painter and Trinket Mage. Daretti can use it. Jace/Teferi High Tide can use a great alternate wincon. Etc, etc. The only way I see Grinstone won't be played a lot is if the meta is dominated by decks that have shuffling Eldrazi on them. But really, we can even skip this. Just answer me the first question on why Painter/Stone is ok and Vault/Key isn't.