So can you post your actual Rafiq French Decklist that works well and is up to date?
Thank you very much
The decklist I have on the first post has been following the French ban-list only in the last several posts have I mentioned the non-French list that I've been running in 3-man pods at a local game shop around where I live. If you look about four spoilers down the post you'll see the "if I wasn't using the French ban-list then make these changes"
Unfortunately I haven't been following the Duel Commander tournaments lately so I have no idea if this deck even makes an appearance anymore.
Perhaps Asimov can tell you how his version (listed several posts up) has been performing?
Thanks for the well wishes. Things are going well now that I'm working a full-time salary job and can stop living paycheck to paycheck.
Yes I have, but haven't gotten to test with it yet. I've put my 1v1 lists on hold since there just isn't anyone around here who wants to test these kind of decks with me and I'm too lazy to use Cockatrice.
Yes I have, but haven't gotten to test with it yet. I've put my 1v1 lists on hold since there just isn't anyone around here who wants to test these kind of decks with me and I'm too lazy to use Cockatrice.
I wanted to ask if your list on the OP wasn't updated since 2/2012. Is that the case or is it just not updated text?
In the new dragon maze set, a card came out called "Render Silence"
Its a counter + silence (CMC=WUU). Thoughts?
Could be great in the right situation, but I think most of the time it's better to keep the cost at 0, 1, or 2.
I have example spells listed a few posts up. I mean we could even just run Silence or Orim's Chant over it, but I'm not sure I like them in this deck since we're not exactly comboing out the turn we cast it. I mean sometimes we essentially do combo into a 1-hit kill, but I'd usually rather just run some kind of counterspell, shroud, or protection instead.
Of the various rafiq decks, I have taken up a keen interest in the infect version (becos I am bored of being the nice guy and wanna try what it feels like to kill fast in EDH). I don't see many infect rafiq lists going around, and yours, I must say after goldfishing a few games, is very fast, I like it very much. Thank you for sharing.
Just a question, I understand this is your 1v1 rafiq deck, but I am sure it should also have the potential to be viable in multiplayer since I play in a multiplayer environment, what adjustments would you advise that can be made to this deck list of yours without compromising the speed? I don't mind being the arch enemy if I would play this deck IRL (in fact, with this deck, I want to be the villain), in fact, I would even wanna get some arch enemy schemes after building this deck
Of the various rafiq decks, I have taken up a keen interest in the infect version (becos I am bored of being the nice guy and wanna try what it feels like to kill fast in EDH). I don't see many infect rafiq lists going around, and yours, I must say after goldfishing a few games, is very fast, I like it very much. Thank you for sharing.
Just a question, I understand this is your 1v1 rafiq deck, but I am sure it should also have the potential to be viable in multiplayer since I play in a multiplayer environment, what adjustments would you advise that can be made to this deck list of yours without compromising the speed? I don't mind being the arch enemy if I would play this deck IRL (in fact, with this deck, I want to be the villain), in fact, I would even wanna get some arch enemy schemes after building this deck
Thank you I'm glad you enjoy it. I would say that changing this deck to be better in a multiplayer environment requires virtually no changes for a 3-player game. At 4-players and more you definitely become the archenemy in the early game and run out of gas quickly.
The biggest problem of the current build in a 4+ player game is that you will typically run out of cards in hand before you can kill everyone making it easy for your opponents to build up and stomp you out. So card draw can be pretty helpful or at least card quality.
The other issue is that you'll ultimately have to sacrifice some speed to allow for a stronger mid to late game.
Thank you for coming back to me with these suggestions, I really appreciate the help I am liking mystic remora, Mirri's Guile, Shadow Rift, Shelter and lightning greaves. I believe I want to to keep the mana curve as low as possible so that I can carry out very explosive killing blows
Hmm at my LGS, my usual playgroup size is 4 players a game, they rarely want to go beyond that since it may take too long. I guess if I were to take on 3 opponents, according to your advice, I would hardly need to make any changes to the list
Thank you for coming back to me with these suggestions, I really appreciate the help I am liking mystic remora, Mirri's Guile, Shadow Rift, Shelter and lightning greaves. I believe I want to to keep the mana curve as low as possible so that I can carry out very explosive killing blows
Hmm at my LGS, my usual playgroup size is 4 players a game, they rarely want to go beyond that since it may take too long. I guess if I were to take on 3 opponents, according to your advice, I would hardly need to make any changes to the list
Correction, taking on 2 opponents would require virtually no changes due to how fast you can kill the first opponent this allows the deck to go back to a 1v1 setting quickly where it performs best. At 3 opponents or more is where you begin to see the deck run out of gas as it deals with more potential removal and board wipes every turn.
However, I do not know how competitive your playgroup is so perhaps you'll see some matches where you one-shot the only player who is a large threat and can take out the remaining two with a lot less trouble.
I was using it in Lin Sivvi, and wandered into this forum after hearing of the deck. If you wanna go to multiplayer and have a silver bullet, this is rather solid pre-combat
I also think Sublime is a solid option, but not in 1v1, you should not be spending 4 on a sorcery, easier to remove, pump spell that MAY get you more than +4/+4
Of the various rafiq decks, I have taken up a keen interest in the infect version (becos I am bored of being the nice guy and wanna try what it feels like to kill fast in EDH).
I just found this thread and I plan to revise my multiplayer Rafiq deck to add Infect as well.
I'll post my results so we can compare for your conversion suggestions. I also like to include budget considerations (no Swords, for example).
One of the local shops has finally started running Duel Commander events, but only on the last Saturday of each month. I attended the first event in January and I ran Fluxuate's Rafiq list. I won against a Memnarch deck (this person was not prepared for the Duel Commander meta) and against a Geist of Saint Traft. However, I lost to Krenko (once because of mana issues) and Zur (who is thankfully banned). Some of the other commanders I noticed at the event were Ruric Thar, the Unbowed and Radha, Heir to Keld. Who knows what the meta will be at the shop next time though. I believe the Memnarch player is already testing a Skullbriar, the Walking Grave list for next time.
As for the next event I'm thinking of running infect Rafiq. I'm trying to tweak the deck again.
Some new options that I'm considering: Centaur Garden is an interesting option that I noticed in Khymera's Varolz list. So I'm thinking about testing it even though I may not have threshold as often, but sometimes the game lasts long enough for it to be useful. Savage Summoning seems like a decent option as well to possible circumvent the control player from countering my infect critters or Rafiq. It could also just catch a player off-guard seeing an Infect creature hit the board at the end of their turn. Gods Willing another instant speed protection with Scry 1. Rogue's Passage sometimes you just need to get through Moorland Haunt dead creatures become chump blockers or Skullclamp targets.
My main concern at the moment is should the deck remain focused on trying to win with pump spells, or should it become control with infect as its win condition.
As a pump combo style it seems a bit fragile. Sometimes you swing for the win and the creature gets exiled, destroyed, tucked, etc. Sometimes the protection spells will keep you from being able to play pump spells which slows you down, or it may cause you to 2-for-1 yourself as you go to pump they respond with Beast Within, you give the creature pro-green, and your pump now has an invalid target. You have to worry about blockers a fair amount of the time. I feel like the French list that won back in 2011 was more of an aggro list with some pump spells, more removal, and lots of ways to draw cards.
As a control list the deck can run a lot more counter-magic and removal to have a more consistent game plan, but it wins at a slower pace.
I really need to start play-testing on Cockatrice.
Sorry I haven't been on MTGS much lately. As for updates I have yet to test anything, but I'll list the cards that have potential.
Khans has brought us: Become Immense Dig Through Time Savage Punch (okay removal when combined with a pump spell, and if done this way it doubles as a pump) Stubborn Denial (situational, but I'd probably just run Spell Pierce instead) Treasure Cruise (steep delve, but worth it if the game is going long enough for you to have that many fetches and spells in your graveyard) Ghostfire Blade (budget option to equip to our artifact infectors)
M15 has: Ajani Steadfast Ensoul Artifact (great way to turn some of the small artifact infectors into 5/5s) Helliod's Pilgrim (budget option to grab a good aura) Hushwing Gryff Life's Legacy (if you know it's going to die next turn or something you can sac it second main phase to draw some cards) Oppressive Rays (budget way to screw with your opponent's blocker or utility creature) Return to the Ranks (okay way to reanimate multiple infect and/or utility creatures) Voidsnare (budget option to get a problem off the board)
Seems very long time since the last update. Infect Rafiq always be my favorite deck in all times and I think this thread has inspired me a lot. Have you still have this deck in play? My current meta are playing 4~5 people free for all, sometimes Two Headed Giant, with both official and French ban list applying. I am curious to see what your deck looks like if you are still using it.
Seems very long time since the last update. Infect Rafiq always be my favorite deck in all times and I think this thread has inspired me a lot. Have you still have this deck in play? My current meta are playing 4~5 people free for all, sometimes Two Headed Giant, with both official and French ban list applying. I am curious to see what your deck looks like if you are still using it.
Sorry I haven't been on MTGS much lately. As for updates I have yet to test anything, but I'll list the cards that have potential.
Khans has brought us: Become Immense Dig Through Time Savage Punch (okay removal when combined with a pump spell, and if done this way it doubles as a pump) Stubborn Denial (situational, but I'd probably just run Spell Pierce instead) Treasure Cruise (steep delve, but worth it if the game is going long enough for you to have that many fetches and spells in your graveyard) Ghostfire Blade (budget option to equip to our artifact infectors)
M15 has: Ajani Steadfast Ensoul Artifact (great way to turn some of the small artifact infectors into 5/5s) Helliod's Pilgrim (budget option to grab a good aura) Hushwing Gryff Life's Legacy (if you know it's going to die next turn or something you can sac it second main phase to draw some cards) Oppressive Rays (budget way to screw with your opponent's blocker or utility creature) Return to the Ranks (okay way to reanimate multiple infect and/or utility creatures) Voidsnare (budget option to get a problem off the board)
I probably have not played this deck since my last post which was in 2014. This deck will most likely struggle in a meta of 4 to 5 free-for-all as opposed to 1v1 or a 3-man free-for-all. You will often be seen as a big threat because you can one-shot people out of the blue so as soon as you do anything relevant or threatening you will likely have all the removel, counterspells, and board wipes being used on you. If you're not hated off the table the next problem you face is running out of gas because you will likely have your threats dealt with quickly. If you hold back playing threats without some haste enablers then you give other players more time to setup their defenses. You can try to hold back on the killing spree to see if other players will start fighting each other first.
I'm not saying its impossible for you to win a 4 or 5 player game with infect Rafiq, but if you're opponents know what they're in for it is an uphill battle for you.
Would you like me to look over the current sets to provide my thoughts on potentially useful new cards?
The current form of my Rafiq deck is meant more for your meta, but it doesn't really focus on infect and it isn't fine tuned. I just sort of threw together a deck that was full of Bant cards that I liked. I haven't been playing as much EDH as I used to even though I still love the format. If you'd like to try a multiplayer build of Rafiq then I'd recommend looking at Swift2210's build: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/217213-edh-rafiq-of-the-many
Thank you Omni~! What a warm and comprehended reply! I can see your reasonings behind why Infect Rafiq won't be efficient in a multi game and some of them coincide with my feelings and worries. I am considering adapting the deck to a more controllable style, so any suggestions are welcome, especially about the useful cards released since your last update.
For the Bant deck, now I am using a bant enchantment deck in local multi games, guess which commander I use, ;), still Rafiq. I go with control and combo style, including classical Enchanted Evening/Aura thief/Calming Verse combo, along with Earth craft/squirrel, Opalescence/Parallax Wave, rest in pease/helm combos etc. The bant good stuff deck you recommended seems solid, maybe I will try it when I get tired of the enchantment.
I probably have not played this deck since my last post which was in 2014. This deck will most likely struggle in a meta of 4 to 5 free-for-all as opposed to 1v1 or a 3-man free-for-all. You will often be seen as a big threat because you can one-shot people out of the blue so as soon as you do anything relevant or threatening you will likely have all the removel, counterspells, and board wipes being used on you. If you're not hated off the table the next problem you face is running out of gas because you will likely have your threats dealt with quickly. If you hold back playing threats without some haste enablers then you give other players more time to setup their defenses. You can try to hold back on the killing spree to see if other players will start fighting each other first.
I'm not saying its impossible for you to win a 4 or 5 player game with infect Rafiq, but if you're opponents know what they're in for it is an uphill battle for you.
Would you like me to look over the current sets to provide my thoughts on potentially useful new cards?
The current form of my Rafiq deck is meant more for your meta, but it doesn't really focus on infect and it isn't fine tuned. I just sort of threw together a deck that was full of Bant cards that I liked. I haven't been playing as much EDH as I used to even though I still love the format. If you'd like to try a multiplayer build of Rafiq then I'd recommend looking at Swift2210's build: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/217213-edh-rafiq-of-the-many
Have you considered Cathedral of war?
The decklist I have on the first post has been following the French ban-list only in the last several posts have I mentioned the non-French list that I've been running in 3-man pods at a local game shop around where I live. If you look about four spoilers down the post you'll see the "if I wasn't using the French ban-list then make these changes"
Unfortunately I haven't been following the Duel Commander tournaments lately so I have no idea if this deck even makes an appearance anymore.
Perhaps Asimov can tell you how his version (listed several posts up) has been performing?
Thanks for the well wishes. Things are going well now that I'm working a full-time salary job and can stop living paycheck to paycheck.
Yes I have, but haven't gotten to test with it yet. I've put my 1v1 lists on hold since there just isn't anyone around here who wants to test these kind of decks with me and I'm too lazy to use Cockatrice.
First, that is awesome and congrats!! I am very happy to hear that (for even someone I don't know personally).
I wanted to ask if your list on the OP wasn't updated since 2/2012. Is that the case or is it just not updated text?
Thanks
TK
Thank You!
As of a few minutes ago I went ahead and updated the list with what I would be testing if I get the chance to.
Its a counter + silence (CMC=WUU). Thoughts?
Could be great in the right situation, but I think most of the time it's better to keep the cost at 0, 1, or 2.
I have example spells listed a few posts up. I mean we could even just run Silence or Orim's Chant over it, but I'm not sure I like them in this deck since we're not exactly comboing out the turn we cast it. I mean sometimes we essentially do combo into a 1-hit kill, but I'd usually rather just run some kind of counterspell, shroud, or protection instead.
Just a question, I understand this is your 1v1 rafiq deck, but I am sure it should also have the potential to be viable in multiplayer
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Thank you I'm glad you enjoy it. I would say that changing this deck to be better in a multiplayer environment requires virtually no changes for a 3-player game. At 4-players and more you definitely become the archenemy in the early game and run out of gas quickly.
The biggest problem of the current build in a 4+ player game is that you will typically run out of cards in hand before you can kill everyone making it easy for your opponents to build up and stomp you out. So card draw can be pretty helpful or at least card quality.
The other issue is that you'll ultimately have to sacrifice some speed to allow for a stronger mid to late game.
Card Draw/Quality Options for Multiplayer:
Rhystic Study
Copy Enchantment if your meta has a lot of card draw enchantments.
Mirri's Guile Least mana-intensive card quality you can get.
Mystic Remora
Time Spiral
Windfall
Timetwister If you got a lot of money to waste
Some removal needs to go a bit further than 1-for-1:
Trygon Predator
Return to Dust
Cool Recursion:
Sun Titan
Reveillark
Reap If there is a lot of black in your meta.
Consider more cantrips:
Shadow Rift
Leap
Shelter
Abeyance
Arcane Denial
Remand
Cryptic Command
Dismiss
Dream Fracture
Tucking Board Wipes since we run several tutors:
Hallowed Burial
Terminus
Also you may want to consider haste enablers:
Swiftfoot Boots
Lightning Greaves These can be annoying though.
One other creature to consider:
Stonehewer Giant
Hmm at my LGS, my usual playgroup size is 4 players a game, they rarely want to go beyond that since it may take too long. I guess if I were to take on 3 opponents, according to your advice, I would hardly need to make any changes to the list
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Correction, taking on 2 opponents would require virtually no changes due to how fast you can kill the first opponent this allows the deck to go back to a 1v1 setting quickly where it performs best. At 3 opponents or more is where you begin to see the deck run out of gas as it deals with more potential removal and board wipes every turn.
However, I do not know how competitive your playgroup is so perhaps you'll see some matches where you one-shot the only player who is a large threat and can take out the remaining two with a lot less trouble.
Oh yes, anyway what do you think about sublime archangel in this deck?
Modern Esper Midrange
EDH Jenara ETB
Retribution of the Meek
I was using it in Lin Sivvi, and wandered into this forum after hearing of the deck. If you wanna go to multiplayer and have a silver bullet, this is rather solid pre-combat
I also think Sublime is a solid option, but not in 1v1, you should not be spending 4 on a sorcery, easier to remove, pump spell that MAY get you more than +4/+4
Loose Change Pauper Cube-cast
Pauper Cube Article #1
Pauper Cube Article #2
Personal Enjoyment Cube
rogue's passage ?
I feel like I'd rather have edric, spymaster of trest than Cold-eyed Selkie, but maybe you're hoping to pump selkie?
I also kinda like the idea of maybe doing more counters than pumps to support Vorel of the Hull Clade, but that might be way too slow... idk.
I also think about
Thrummingbird - I think I just have a soft spot for that card.
I've had good luck casting Carrion Call at their EOT.
Are all these ideas just way too slow? Is that why much of it isn't in your build?
I just found this thread and I plan to revise my multiplayer Rafiq deck to add Infect as well.
I'll post my results so we can compare for your conversion suggestions. I also like to include budget considerations (no Swords, for example).
'Greatness, at any cost.'
Rafiq - Karador - Teferi - Momir Vig - Reaper King - Daretti
As for the next event I'm thinking of running infect Rafiq. I'm trying to tweak the deck again.
Some new options that I'm considering:
Centaur Garden is an interesting option that I noticed in Khymera's Varolz list. So I'm thinking about testing it even though I may not have threshold as often, but sometimes the game lasts long enough for it to be useful.
Savage Summoning seems like a decent option as well to possible circumvent the control player from countering my infect critters or Rafiq. It could also just catch a player off-guard seeing an Infect creature hit the board at the end of their turn.
Gods Willing another instant speed protection with Scry 1.
Rogue's Passage sometimes you just need to get through
Moorland Haunt dead creatures become chump blockers or Skullclamp targets.
My main concern at the moment is should the deck remain focused on trying to win with pump spells, or should it become control with infect as its win condition.
As a pump combo style it seems a bit fragile. Sometimes you swing for the win and the creature gets exiled, destroyed, tucked, etc. Sometimes the protection spells will keep you from being able to play pump spells which slows you down, or it may cause you to 2-for-1 yourself as you go to pump they respond with Beast Within, you give the creature pro-green, and your pump now has an invalid target. You have to worry about blockers a fair amount of the time. I feel like the French list that won back in 2011 was more of an aggro list with some pump spells, more removal, and lots of ways to draw cards.
As a control list the deck can run a lot more counter-magic and removal to have a more consistent game plan, but it wins at a slower pace.
I really need to start play-testing on Cockatrice.
Well I've put together a 1st attempt at a control build. The list is in the original post now. Please offer any suggestions you may have.
My Haves/Wants Thread
Khans has brought us:
Become Immense
Dig Through Time
Savage Punch (okay removal when combined with a pump spell, and if done this way it doubles as a pump)
Stubborn Denial (situational, but I'd probably just run Spell Pierce instead)
Treasure Cruise (steep delve, but worth it if the game is going long enough for you to have that many fetches and spells in your graveyard)
Ghostfire Blade (budget option to equip to our artifact infectors)
M15 has:
Ajani Steadfast
Ensoul Artifact (great way to turn some of the small artifact infectors into 5/5s)
Helliod's Pilgrim (budget option to grab a good aura)
Hushwing Gryff
Life's Legacy (if you know it's going to die next turn or something you can sac it second main phase to draw some cards)
Oppressive Rays (budget way to screw with your opponent's blocker or utility creature)
Return to the Ranks (okay way to reanimate multiple infect and/or utility creatures)
Voidsnare (budget option to get a problem off the board)
Born of the Gods has:
Mortal's Resolve
Out of all of these the only ones I would probably consider for the competitive list without budget restrictions would be:
Become Immense
Dig Through Time
Savage Punch
Treasure Cruise
Ensoul Artifact
I probably have not played this deck since my last post which was in 2014. This deck will most likely struggle in a meta of 4 to 5 free-for-all as opposed to 1v1 or a 3-man free-for-all. You will often be seen as a big threat because you can one-shot people out of the blue so as soon as you do anything relevant or threatening you will likely have all the removel, counterspells, and board wipes being used on you. If you're not hated off the table the next problem you face is running out of gas because you will likely have your threats dealt with quickly. If you hold back playing threats without some haste enablers then you give other players more time to setup their defenses. You can try to hold back on the killing spree to see if other players will start fighting each other first.
I'm not saying its impossible for you to win a 4 or 5 player game with infect Rafiq, but if you're opponents know what they're in for it is an uphill battle for you.
Would you like me to look over the current sets to provide my thoughts on potentially useful new cards?
The current form of my Rafiq deck is meant more for your meta, but it doesn't really focus on infect and it isn't fine tuned. I just sort of threw together a deck that was full of Bant cards that I liked. I haven't been playing as much EDH as I used to even though I still love the format. If you'd like to try a multiplayer build of Rafiq then I'd recommend looking at Swift2210's build: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/217213-edh-rafiq-of-the-many
Another deck for multiplayer that I'd recommend (still not infect, but just as much of a threat at the table) is Prossh which bighaben and feverous have a nice Primer on: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/511349-bighaben-and-feverous-prossh-skyraider-of-kher-bfz
For the Bant deck, now I am using a bant enchantment deck in local multi games, guess which commander I use, ;), still Rafiq. I go with control and combo style, including classical Enchanted Evening/Aura thief/Calming Verse combo, along with Earth craft/squirrel, Opalescence/Parallax Wave, rest in pease/helm combos etc. The bant good stuff deck you recommended seems solid, maybe I will try it when I get tired of the enchantment.