This is the new Legendary BUG Commander, I am a huge fan of the mechanics BUG allows us, the card advantage it can build. I have played with Sidisi, Brood Tyrant and The Mimeoplasm, so I am trying to build something new with Leovold.
The first draft I made is a control-combo oriented, I will test this against some friends to see how it works, and a lot of cards might have better replacements, since I did kind of from the cards I was aware of. I did a more tapped out control since I think forcing Leovold on T2 is the best play we can have. So the control is more for us to or ensure he enters the field, or slow down the opponent as we can before putting a combo engine with Levold to strip all resources from our opponent's hand.
Give suggestions so I can improve the decklist before it gets released
1) I was planning on making a discussion about him later, I'm glad someone got to it first.
2) I would REALLY appreciate it if people would stop claiming everything potentially good is going to be banned (this does not apply to obvious jokes).
3) I don't think we want Howling Mine. Anvil is better and I'm not sure we even want that.
Yeah I took that part out, kind of said that because of... cof lately the bans that happened.
Anyway, I took out Howling Mine, yeah its kind of bad, I'm trying some interactions with him to not go just goodstuff, I'll be updating as I try this out on the weekend
I see most of my suggestions from the new card thread made it into your list. Here are my thoughts.
I think puzzle box is a bit too cute/slow for DC. It does very little to advance your game plan if you can't get your commander to stick.
While vision skeins and words of wisdom are the same with you commander active, skeins is strictly worse without him (card disadvantage), making it a candidate for cutting.
I think time spiral absolutely deserves to be in the deck, while slower than day's undoing, the untap clause will give you the ability to take over game immediately.
I would definitely skip the karoo lands. With all of those manadorks, I would imagine the plan is to try to stick the commander on turn 2? Too many taplands is bad for this strategy. You are only playing the UG manland, but I think the BG and UB ones are both better.
Given the potential for discard, efficient bounce/stall effects get better: venser, shaper savant, memory lapse, unsubstantiate could be playable? I would love to play an overloaded cyclonic rift EOT into windfall. I can dream can't I?
2) I would REALLY appreciate it if people would stop claiming everything potentially good is going to be banned (this does not apply to obvious jokes).
BUG general for three holding huge card advantage while stopping opponents extra drawing with combo potentional of cards like windfall? Oh come on!
This thread isn't a place to discuss banning. I made the post to explain that. If you have nothing to offer the deckbuilding discussion please feel free to discuss it in the Banlist Discussion subforum.
Perfekt mentioned the lock between Cephalid Coliseum and Life from the Loam
If you crack Coliseum targeting the opponent on their turn after their draw step they will draw no cards but discard 3.
From then you can reclaim the coliseum with loam and continue to target their hand (with a land)
Intuition also helps you set up that package quite well. I.E. Search for Loam, Coliseum + Raven's Crime
Crime is also more devastating when they cant outdraw the disadvantage
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing
Karador Pattern Rector GWB
Anafenza the Foremost GWB
Meren of Clan Nel Toth (Stax)GB
I'd want to balance more permanent cards into the fold, to gain more advantage over the abilities setting up targettable threats seems best.
You don't need to force the targeting thing for it to be valuable. You get the same amount of value from your opponent's lightning bolt regardless of what they target. Playing too many creatures makes you more vulnerable to a board wipe, which already gets around the ability. The only card I can think of to make this ability better is Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, which turns their spot removal into a 4-for-1 in your favor (takes two spells, you draw two cards). Might be overkill though.
Running more Permanents doesn't mean creature heavy, does mean that you can't maximize on enchantment/Planeswalker/Artifact threats to gain value. Unless you're vying for more creatures Running Kira could be a waste.
Cards that are good alone but beg to be targeted like Sower of Temptation, Deathrite Shaman, Tasigur, Dark Confidant, Titania. Doesn't have to be creature heavy but playing like a control deck instead of a tempo deck seems like a waste of good synergy
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently playing
Karador Pattern Rector GWB
Anafenza the Foremost GWB
Meren of Clan Nel Toth (Stax)GB
Here's an idea: why not windfall? Play it similar to tasigur on the whole but control spectrum; because(from my personal experience) I have a low opinion of bug aggro decks, like sidisi.
So reviewed the rulings on teferi's puzzle box, seems you do draw for the turn before the trigger, so this + leovold = opponents can never have a hand. That is much more brutal than I initially thought.
oops karo lands are my fault, I just copied the manabase I had with the other deck where I combo with them and forgot to remove them from this list, I will update the list exchanging them for checklands probably.
The others I'll update my list with the suggestion, Time Spiral is a card that I simply couldn't have fogotten :/, my fault.
Also, I wouldn't play this as Tasigur was played, since Tasigur could be totally reactive, as it would almost always cost B, and therefore leaving almost all lands untapped. With him, I think the best way is to play more active, maybe I'm even going way too controlish with him, but a tapped out control/combo style of deck is what I found to make him shine the most right now, if someone wants to try out a list also :).
The reason he is much more fair than Tasigur (while still having potentially obscene combo potential) is that at the end of the day Tas was a 4/5 that would beat you to death and outclass most bodies. This guy requires the combo to completely lock the game before he can consider winning. Unlike Tasigur, Leo is bad at punching people to death.
I think Bitterblossom and Baleful Strix both belong in the list. I don't believe cards like Lore Broker or Dictate belong in the deck. It is a combo lockout. If you want to abuse non-symetrical effects use Liliana of the Veil and Anvil of Bogardan.
Both of these are bad countermagic without the commander in play. As the deck runs enough "combo" cards already I feel our removal/countermagic should stand on its own.
Yeah Tasi seems stronger than Leo. Leo + Time Spiral isn't necessarily GG if the opponent has a good board state, but Tasi + Upheaval f*cks everything up. As a control general Leo's 3/3 vanilla body is weaker than all the other 3cmc commanders like Jenara and Anafenza, so he can only win with swords or a midrange outvalue plan. His only weakness is his inability to pressure the life total, so all the cute cards like Teferi's Puzzle Box and Words of Wisdom should be cut, and the deck should focus on shoring up that weakness instead.
edit: also if you're building it as a hyopthetical deck, Timetwister is legal and better than Windfall and all its variants.
Yeah Tasi seems stronger than Leo. Leo + Time Spiral isn't necessarily GG if the opponent has a good board state, but Tasi + Upheaval f*cks everything up. As a control general Leo's 3/3 vanilla body is weaker than all the other 3cmc commanders like Jenara and Anafenza, so he can only win with swords or a midrange outvalue plan. His only weakness is his inability to pressure the life total, so all the cute cards like Teferi's Puzzle Box and Howling Mine should be cut, and the deck should focus on shoring up that weakness instead.
Box may be acceptable to keep but I fully agree the other cards are far too cute and far too weak.
Is Box better than the Windfall variants? It 'discards' them down to one card on their next turn and keeps their maximum hand size at one on each of their draw steps.
Also Creeping Tar-Pit should go in along with Treetop Village. Titania, Clique and Swords look to be your only ways to beat other creature decks.
Is Box better than the Windfall variants? It 'discards' them down to one card on their next turn and keeps their maximum hand size at one on each of their draw steps.
Also Creeping Tar-Pit should go in along with Treetop Village. Titania, Clique and Swords look to be your only ways to beat other creature decks.
It keeps their hand at 0. They draw before the trigger. It's this deck's Zur's Weirding.
Yeah some cards were way too cute to stay on the deck, I was just getting some synergy, but "commander must be on table" synergy is just bad way to build it.
So I made some changes on the deck right now xD, I am still putting some goodstuff on it, I don't want to go full goodstuff since I hope I get some interactions still with its second ability, so Baleful Strix and Bitterblossom are nice calls.
Anyway, this is a must Teferi's Puzzle Box, really, made some testing and this is easy to be a T3-T4 lockdown, it closes the game almost.
I want to try this deck when it comes out, so that's why no Timetwister, but it would surely be nice if I had one xD.
I think maybe he is just better to use in a goodstuff deck , I won't use him that way, but it looks like its more consistent. I'll still try to brew the deck in a way it doesn't shift to that type of build.
Basically, you build him somewhat like Sidisi BUG, but with cute interactions on top? I'm not overly convinced. (But again, I dropped Queen Marchesa like a hot potato when I realized it can't win against anything that ramps, or is Titania or Jace.)
Basically xD, I used the decklist I had from mine and swapped the cards in, but I'm not really convinced if I should try him out like this :/
I'm very conflicted. I want to make this deck, expecting it to get banned in 6 months, but this doesn't look good to do this kind of cruel stuff like Days Undoing after I play Leo while I'm trying to introduce people to the format.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This is the new Legendary BUG Commander, I am a huge fan of the mechanics BUG allows us, the card advantage it can build. I have played with Sidisi, Brood Tyrant and The Mimeoplasm, so I am trying to build something new with Leovold.
The first draft I made is a control-combo oriented, I will test this against some friends to see how it works, and a lot of cards might have better replacements, since I did kind of from the cards I was aware of. I did a more tapped out control since I think forcing Leovold on T2 is the best play we can have. So the control is more for us to or ensure he enters the field, or slow down the opponent as we can before putting a combo engine with Levold to strip all resources from our opponent's hand.
Give suggestions so I can improve the decklist before it gets released
1x Bayou
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Breeding Pool
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Cephalid Coliseum
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Flooded Grove
1x Flooded Strand
4x Forest
1x Geier Reach Sanitarium
1x Island
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Lumbering Falls
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Sunken Ruins
2x Swamp
1x Tolaria West
1x Tropical Island
1x Underground River
1x Underground Sea
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Watery Grave
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Coast
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Brain Maggot
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Dark Confidant
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Elves of Deep Shadow
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Sakura-Tribe Scout
1x Skyshroud Ranger
1x Sower of Temptation
1x The Gitrog Monster
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
Sorcery (14) -
1x Day's Undoing
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Duress
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Hymn to Tourach
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Life from the Loam
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Thoughtseize
1x Time Spiral
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Windfall
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Exploration
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Sylvan Library
Instant (17) -
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Beast Within
1x Counterspell
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Daze
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Dismember
1x Exclude
1x Far / Away
1x Force of Will
1x Go for the Throat
1x Miscalculation
1x Negate
1x Remand
1x Spell Pierce
1x Sultai Charm
1x Swan Song
Artifact (4) -
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Teferi's Puzzle Box
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Planeswalker (4) -
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Karn Liberated
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2) I would REALLY appreciate it if people would stop claiming everything potentially good is going to be banned (this does not apply to obvious jokes).
3) I don't think we want Howling Mine. Anvil is better and I'm not sure we even want that.
Anyway, I took out Howling Mine, yeah its kind of bad, I'm trying some interactions with him to not go just goodstuff, I'll be updating as I try this out on the weekend
I think puzzle box is a bit too cute/slow for DC. It does very little to advance your game plan if you can't get your commander to stick.
While vision skeins and words of wisdom are the same with you commander active, skeins is strictly worse without him (card disadvantage), making it a candidate for cutting.
I think time spiral absolutely deserves to be in the deck, while slower than day's undoing, the untap clause will give you the ability to take over game immediately.
I would definitely skip the karoo lands. With all of those manadorks, I would imagine the plan is to try to stick the commander on turn 2? Too many taplands is bad for this strategy. You are only playing the UG manland, but I think the BG and UB ones are both better.
Given the potential for discard, efficient bounce/stall effects get better: venser, shaper savant, memory lapse, unsubstantiate could be playable? I would love to play an overloaded cyclonic rift EOT into windfall. I can dream can't I?
Lastly, I think careful consideration is better than deep analyis here.
This thread isn't a place to discuss banning. I made the post to explain that. If you have nothing to offer the deckbuilding discussion please feel free to discuss it in the Banlist Discussion subforum.
I'd recommend
Parallax Tide(Note that If you run stifle or Trickbind you can stifle the leave ability exiling the lands),Opposition, Bitterblossom
Karador Pattern Rector GWB
Anafenza the Foremost GWB
Meren of Clan Nel Toth (Stax)GB
[Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
If you crack Coliseum targeting the opponent on their turn after their draw step they will draw no cards but discard 3.
From then you can reclaim the coliseum with loam and continue to target their hand (with a land)
Intuition also helps you set up that package quite well. I.E. Search for Loam, Coliseum + Raven's Crime
Crime is also more devastating when they cant outdraw the disadvantage
Karador Pattern Rector GWB
Anafenza the Foremost GWB
Meren of Clan Nel Toth (Stax)GB
[Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
You don't need to force the targeting thing for it to be valuable. You get the same amount of value from your opponent's lightning bolt regardless of what they target. Playing too many creatures makes you more vulnerable to a board wipe, which already gets around the ability. The only card I can think of to make this ability better is Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, which turns their spot removal into a 4-for-1 in your favor (takes two spells, you draw two cards). Might be overkill though.
Cards that are good alone but beg to be targeted like Sower of Temptation, Deathrite Shaman, Tasigur, Dark Confidant, Titania. Doesn't have to be creature heavy but playing like a control deck instead of a tempo deck seems like a waste of good synergy
Karador Pattern Rector GWB
Anafenza the Foremost GWB
Meren of Clan Nel Toth (Stax)GB
[Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
The others I'll update my list with the suggestion, Time Spiral is a card that I simply couldn't have fogotten :/, my fault.
I think this is way too conditional, it gives time to they get rid of our commander and draw two cards.
I forgot some cards like Deathrite Shaman and Sower of Temptation, that it was mostly because I didn't remember at the time, xD.
Also, I wouldn't play this as Tasigur was played, since Tasigur could be totally reactive, as it would almost always cost B, and therefore leaving almost all lands untapped. With him, I think the best way is to play more active, maybe I'm even going way too controlish with him, but a tapped out control/combo style of deck is what I found to make him shine the most right now, if someone wants to try out a list also :).
CommanderEDH Decks:CommanderEDH DecksWULavinia of the Blinking TenthUW RGURiku the Epic Experimenter’s StormUGR UBRThrax and his Super FriendsRBU RWUZedruu the Hard HeartedUWR
WBU Zur the UnstoppableUBW
I think Bitterblossom and Baleful Strix both belong in the list. I don't believe cards like Lore Broker or Dictate belong in the deck. It is a combo lockout. If you want to abuse non-symetrical effects use Liliana of the Veil and Anvil of Bogardan.
CommanderEDH Decks:CommanderEDH DecksWULavinia of the Blinking TenthUW RGURiku the Epic Experimenter’s StormUGR UBRThrax and his Super FriendsRBU RWUZedruu the Hard HeartedUWR
WBU Zur the UnstoppableUBW
Both of these are bad countermagic without the commander in play. As the deck runs enough "combo" cards already I feel our removal/countermagic should stand on its own.
edit: also if you're building it as a hyopthetical deck, Timetwister is legal and better than Windfall and all its variants.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
Box may be acceptable to keep but I fully agree the other cards are far too cute and far too weak.
Also Creeping Tar-Pit should go in along with Treetop Village. Titania, Clique and Swords look to be your only ways to beat other creature decks.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
It keeps their hand at 0. They draw before the trigger. It's this deck's Zur's Weirding.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
So I made some changes on the deck right now xD, I am still putting some goodstuff on it, I don't want to go full goodstuff since I hope I get some interactions still with its second ability, so Baleful Strix and Bitterblossom are nice calls.
Anyway, this is a must Teferi's Puzzle Box, really, made some testing and this is easy to be a T3-T4 lockdown, it closes the game almost.
I want to try this deck when it comes out, so that's why no Timetwister, but it would surely be nice if I had one xD.
I think maybe he is just better to use in a goodstuff deck , I won't use him that way, but it looks like its more consistent. I'll still try to brew the deck in a way it doesn't shift to that type of build.
Basically xD, I used the decklist I had from mine and swapped the cards in, but I'm not really convinced if I should try him out like this :/