MTG Salvation

This is the list that i'm running atm, i'm 12-3, lost two times duo to missplay and today against polymorph vendilion after get mana screwed two games (lost 2-1)


Leovold, emissary of trest
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Breeding Pool
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Command Tower
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Flooded Grove
1 Flooded Strand
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Mana Confluence
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple of Deceit
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Tolaria West
1 Treetop Village
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground River
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Watery Grave
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Yavimaya Coast
4 Snow-Covered Island
1 Dark Confidant
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Primeval Titan
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Brainstorm
1 Careful Consideration
1 Counterspell
1 Complicate
! Condescend
1 Cryptic Command
1 Dismember
1 Dissolve
1 Exclude
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Far / Away
1 Forbid
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Force Spike
1 Force of Will
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Intuition
1 Logic Knot
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Miscalculation
1 Mystic Confluence
1 Negate
1 Opt
1 Remand
1 Spell Snare
1 Sultai Charm
1 Think Twice
1 Ulcerate
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Damnation
1 Day's Undoing
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Duress
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Languish
1 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Painful Truths
1 Preordain
1 Thoughtseize
1 Time Spiral
1 Toxic Deluge


I'm not sure about painful truths, maybe i will cut it for another counter or a instant draw.

Inquisition of Kozilek is better than Duress IMO. Primeval Titan seems clunky, Nissa 3CMC seems better. Also should find a slot for Raven's Crime. I would play Mystical Teachings over Forbidden Alchemy and Dismiss instead of Painful Truths.

I wouldn't use Evacuation, I just think it needs too much setup to shine, unless you are really creature light you could use it, but if not, you will need to have mana for Leovold, wheel card on your hand and without any dorks for that mana means you need 6+ lands on play if you want to have mana up to do more stuff on that turn.

Quote from spastika »

Inquisition of Kozilek is better than Duress IMO. Primeval Titan seems clunky, Nissa 3CMC seems better. Also should find a slot for Raven's Crime. I would play Mystical Teachings over Forbidden Alchemy and Dismiss instead of Painful Truths.

I prefer having both, Primetime is a 3-for-1 in the moment it enters the battlefield, he is really strong, he also sets up Geier package lands effect.

loam is amazing and makes intuition basically a 3 win condition. raven's crime +wasteland +loam; depths + stage + loam; two cycling lands + loam; blighted fen + wasteland + loam; bojuka bog + dust bowl + loam, etc. It gives just so much value.

I just got back from a small 3 round tournament where I went 3-0 to win the whole thing, dropping only two games, one of which I lost due to an insane topdeck and the other where I made a misplay that ultimately cost me the game.

Round 1 was against prossh. It was a pretty easy 2-0, and nothing much of note happened.

Round 2 was against rhys the redeemed that I don't think was super tuned (I know the guy who played it and he normally plays a fairly tuned griselbrand deck so this was a nice surprise). game 1 I misplayed by not saving my putrefy for a coat of arms that I had seem with an earlier thoughtseize, although even then there were a lot of points where the game was salvagable if I had drawn just one or two more pieces of removal or a sweeper. Game 2 I won off the back of an ugin just wrecking his board. Game 3 I finally got the puzzle box lock turn 5 or so, and it was definitely very effective in ultimately ending the game as I got basically infinite resources vs. his nothing.

Round 3 was against a very tuned xenagos, god of revels deck that I have historically had a very tough time with due to it's explosive nature. Even back when I was playing tasigur (albeit a pretty creature light list) it was still very difficult. However it felt surprisingly not bad with leovold, especially when he didn't get a super explosive start. game 1 I had gained control of the matchup until I tapped out to play a threat (I want to say it was a recast leovold, but I don't really remember, I do remember thinking that if I had been able to untap I would have 99% won) which he took full opportunity of by slamming a malignus to one shot me. Game 2 I managed to survive the onslaught until I could drop an ugin and -7 to clear the board. Even then he managed to get a ruric thar, the unbowed into play which brought me dangerously low before I managed to finish him off with a sword of feast and famine equipped leo. game 3 an early exploration combined with him having a non-mana dork fueled opener let me just run away with the game, and a wasteland/life from the loam combo combined with an active primeval titan let me finish him off in short order.

changes I'll make include -1 burgeoning and -1 crop rotation for +1 land and +1 of probably either fact or fiction or brainstorm. I'm unsure if any lock pieces aside from geier reach sanitarium are needed. While the idea of generating massive CA is great, I'm unsure if more than 1 (the sanitarium) or maybe 2 (probably time spiral?) is necessary. most of my games were won by just being a beastly tempo/control deck rather than any particular interaction with leo. He could have been just a generic 3/3 for BUG in the vast majority of these games.

duress over inquisition= my meta is basically full control, duress it's better than iok here
primeval over nissa= i just ran 1 forest in the deck and titan can search for manlands, maze, tectonic/waste or geier/cephalid and it's a kc, it win me a lot of games alone.
raven's crime it's just good if you can find loam, otherwise it's not soo good.
forbidden over mystical= forbidden is soo good and it's cmc it's cheapier and easy to cast.
dismiss over painful= maybe it's a good choice, i just want another draw and i didn't like the lose of life, i'm thinking about murmur's from beyond/epiphany at the drownyard but i guess they are bad cards, maybe i will try dismiss instead.

Quote from Bal »

As is often the case with new generals that seem to have very strong synergies with old cards (here, Timetwister, Puzzle box etc.), these cards often end up being win-more, and cut in the most competitive lists (same thing happened for general such as Brago and Meren for instance).

Timetwister like cards aren't so good in a heavy control list, you'd really have to be emptying your hand a lot faster to make them worthwhile.
Otherwise the card is only good when Leovold is on the board, AND your opponent still has cards in hand, that's too many conditions.

Kamenitza, you need to try harder with that link.

So theoretically the midrange lists and the Elfball lists could make good use of them? Or are they still too winmore?

Quote from dachivale »

I was actualy also thinking of cutting the box, windfall, etc as a whole.... was a bit doubtfull, cause the games I did go early windfall or any of it's ilk it was pretty much game-over on the spot... but as said above, the times that it wil be like that might be slim if maybe none at all vs some decks.

Not sure what to run instead of the Box and windfall (the only 2 I have in right now), more counter, pernicious deed/destruction, or more draw?
Am a bit light on draw I feel, but might be better to add more counter and/or destruction as a whole?

What do people think about Sylvan Scrying? it might be slower then crop rotation, but less risky, due to no sacrifice..

What are thoughts on Gitrog and Titania also, I cut them right now, had them in before, they seemed pretty good albeit a bit on the slower side...

Im thinking of cutting all but Timetwister at this point. I just can't bring myself to not run at least one.

I'm not sure about scrying myself. It might be worth the risk.

Lose Gitrog and Keep Titania imo. Gitrog is a build around card and I don't think our deck as it is has the right environment for it.

Quote from dachivale »

What do people think about Sylvan Scrying? it might be slower then crop rotation, but less risky, due to no sacrifice..

What are thoughts on Gitrog and Titania also, I cut them right now, had them in before, they seemed pretty good albeit a bit on the slower side...

I like traverse the ulvenwald over scrying. It requires minimal effort to hit delirium (land, instant and sorcery are basically free, so you only need one creature or planeswalker to die) and the added utility of searching for a creature is just so powerful.

I have so far only cast gitfrog in one game, and I was pretty incredibly underwhelmed. I'll test it a bit more but it's unlikely to last much longer.

Quote from Kamenitza »

Alright, corrected the link above. Only card I'm not so sure about is Dimir Charm, because the third mode is a bit underwhelming.

The hard matchups (aka, I'm a bye or close to it) with the list are Titania, Wafo-Tapa Wanderer and probably Nissa, Vastwood Seer (can fetch Cavern of Souls and has an ETB). Keranos isn't actually too bad, despite Blood Moon/Ruination.

Wafo-Tapa wanderer? What's that?

It's a full basic Wanderer ramp-control deck with basic-matters cards like Early Harvest and Ruination.

Wanderer is quite aweful indeed.

Same as you guys, Im thinking about cutting Time Twister and Teferi's Box. Sanitarium is the true lock. Though I'll probably keep Time Spiral, because it's too tempting and it won me a lot of games.
And I'll never remove Primeval Titan from this list. He brings the lock lands or whatever we need and he's a great wincon by himself. I don't think I ever lost a game where I casted him, even when he died right away.

Seriously why is no one running Misdirection? It combos with Leo much like Stubborn Denial did with Tasigur >.<

Doesn't stop sweepers but stops targetted discard, counterspells and spot removal. Still worth.

i really don't know why people uses raven's crime, even when tasigur is legal no one that runs a decent list use this card.

Yeah raven's crime is not good...
you make a 2-for-2/3-for-3 without getting any extra information and you lose your tempo for it, also you can help a bunch of decks making him discard the cards he chooses.

Imo Raven's crime has only one purpose where it's good and that's combining it with Dakmore Salvage to keep an opponents hand empty. Discard decks that run cards like The Rack and Asylum Visitor need that complety empty hand use it and Gitrog likes the combination too because he nets cards off the exchange.

Leovold isn't really going for this type of strategy so I don't like it here eithor. Unless there is a synergy I've missed.

Edit: It works well with life from the loam too but I think its kinda clunky

Are you still using the same list from 3 pages ago or have you made changes? I ask because it looks like you're already using Hymn.

I guess you can look for RC with intuition but it seems kinda klunky outside of intuition. Besides, isn't Cephalid Coliseum a better target for intuition? I guess it depends on whether Leo is in play or not.

The reason I was wondering is because its hard to suggest a replacement for RC without knowing what you're already using. I could recommend a ton of stuff but you're probably using most of the cards already.

I'm getting to the point where I may cut Puzzle Box too because it seems more cute than powerful, but I have still been liking Time Spiral. There are few times when I'm wheeling my opponents hand with it and it's a "free" draw seven once we've traded all our resources away one for one. I'm also still on a tempo shell and haven't had a chance to go full control.

Quote from Tutussaurorex »

i really don't know why people uses raven's crime, even when tasigur is legal no one that runs a decent list use this card.

because life from the loam is a thing, and it just flat out wins the game vs. control decks.

Have you tried Liliana, Heretical Healer yet?

So what are people's thought's on Anvil of Bogardan? I haven't tested it yet, but after going through a lot of the playable cards, this may look the best?

You could try cutting Prime Time for Massacre wurm. What do you usually tutor for with the titan?

I can only see cutting primetime in lists where you don't have the depths/stage combo. In my list for example, I have never lost a single game where I resolved a primetime. If you don't have the combo or an overabundance of utility lands I can see how it would be a bit lackluster. In terms of finishers that can be possible replacements for it: grave titan, rune-scarred demon, aetherling or dragonlord silumgar are all not-terrible.

Another personal favourite of mine is Whisperwood Elemental. I think of it as a cheaper more interactive Grave Titan.

Quote from dachivale »

Quote from FearDReaper »

Another personal favourite of mine is Whisperwood Elemental. I think of it as a cheaper more interactive Grave Titan.

That might be a good/decent option indeed, also helps vs our weakness being mass removal... they whipe the board we get to manifest a few top cards.. though might get a few great non-creatures facedown that way... still already it makes 6 power at end of your turn for 4, wich is not bad at all I think..

Definitely gonne try/consider that one ^^

Primetime is indeed less functional for me, cause no wasteland, dark depth's combo, Maze of Ith..

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