Titania is, not a good match up. The deck is fast, stone walls us, and has a better late game. Additionally, being mono colour means it's impervious to one of our best cards (Price of Progress!) It's hard to attack with 4/4s for four, when they can create 5/3s for 0. :/
I haven't seen lists that play the Orb, I prefer Sylvan Safekeeper for my free token engine as I value the protection over the 2 life. I find this to be even worse for the Bellstriker deck too.
Would you mind reviewing it? I can see there are many differences from the decklist you show on front page, and I would like to know if I missed any good cards, if some would be better inclusions over the ones I run. Budget is not a problem. Also, there are cards I am not sure about from the newest series, like Hanweir Battlements and Hanweir Garrison.
Sure. These are the cards I dislike (there's quite a few of them). Your list reminds me I forgot to order a Blistering Firecat too...damn it.
brimstone -> shard volley
stoke -> violent eruption
volcanic hammer -> forked bolt
wargear -> skullclamp
pillar -> captain's claws (I've never liked Pillar in this deck. I'm crazy I know; by the same token, I don't care about keldon marauders here either).
genju -> goblin bushwhacker
war-name -> scourge wolf
stigma -> viashino sandstalker (or his upgrade, Vaultbreaker. I'd try to play both).
mindsparker -> breakneck rider
mardu scout -> phyrexian revoker
marauders -> sin prodder
bonesplitter -> collateral damage (this one is very under-rated, fantastic bolt)
ire shaman -> eldrazi obligator
gore-house -> reckless bushwhacker
both phoenix -> goldnight castigator, thunderbreak regent
flip chandra -> fiery confluence
borderland -> goblin piledriver
archwing dragon is pretty OK at the top of the curve, and sudden demise is of course really good. your manabase needs the most help though.
fetch x4
mutavault
blinkmoth nexus
barbarian ring
teetering peaks
cavern of souls
wasteland
tec edge
rish port
contested war zone (super under rated, although it's bad vs aggro match/mirror)
How has Goldnight Castigator played for you? In my tests, I was always taking too much damage from my own effects with it on the battlefield, I found it was too dangerous/risky... And how does cutting many hasty creatures for some non-hasty ones (like both phoenixes for goldnight and Thunderbreak Regent) affects the speed of the deck? It is something I considered, but never did because I thaught attacking straight away was better mana for damage investment... Also, is the list on the front page up to date? If not would it be possible to see what your current list looks like?
How has Goldnight Castigator played for you? In my tests, I was always taking too much damage from my own effects with it on the battlefield, I found it was too dangerous/risky... And how does cutting many hasty creatures for some non-hasty ones (like both phoenixes for goldnight and Thunderbreak Regent) affects the speed of the deck? It is something I considered, but never did because I thaught attacking straight away was better mana for damage investment... Also, is the list on the front page up to date? If not would it be possible to see what your current list looks like?
Lol, Goldnight has haste. Thundrebreak has pseudo haste b/c when they try to remove him they take damage.
If we follow the same way of thinking from Thunderbreak's inclusion (which I had not thaught about this way), would Vexing Devil be good enough to make the cut? Pseudo haste, as it will ensure the opponent will take at least 4 when we cast it, at worst it is another Chain Lightning, at best it would attack multiple times and be am excellent one drop, even if most of the time opponent woild simply choose 4 damage once. Still, 4 damage for 1 mana seems pretty good to me.
If we follow the same way of thinking from Thunderbreak's inclusion (which I had not thaught about this way), would Vexing Devil be good enough to make the cut? Pseudo haste, as it will ensure the opponent will take at least 4 when we cast it, at worst it is another Chain Lightning, at best it would attack multiple times and be am excellent one drop, even if most of the time opponent woild simply choose 4 damage once. Still, 4 damage for 1 mana seems pretty good to me.
VD isn't anywhere near what Thunderbreak does. VD is all opponent's choice. Thunderbreak is always a 4/4 flyer that Lava Spikes when removed. If you're playing VD, you might as well be playing Browbeat...
Thunderbreak is good for ~7 damage (if he's worth 11, you've probably got this game on lock). VD is worth only what your opponent would prefer to deal with. That's the difference.
And what are your thoughts on Hanweir Garrison and the meld land Hanweir Battlements? The land is played only for the possibility of melding (even if it never happened, it would be quite good if it does), I think that it plays similarly to Captain's Claw, and I think it is a good mana/damage ration since the token stay on the battlefield.
And what are your thoughts on Hanweir Garrison and the meld land Hanweir Battlements? The land is played only for the possibility of melding (even if it never happened, it would be quite good if it does), I think that it plays similarly to Captain's Claw, and I think it is a good mana/damage ration since the token stay on the battlefield.
I think the land is merely "passable" but not exciting, though the creature is good to spawn to hasty bodies on attack. Together they have more than enough upside to be worth inclusion. Although idk about my list as I have a lot of colourless lands and two spells that rely on sacrificing mountains specifically.
I know it may sound weird, but I ended up not running Cavern of Souls, as I don't really needed counterspell protection because of the speed (maybe is it just that I was lucky, but through all the games I have played with my list, even against control decks I never regretted it), also because of the various creature types I never know what to name, and Battlements can give haste to the few non-hasty creatures in the deck, to maximise their usefulness. Also, just managed to meld today, and it straight up won me the game, which I think even if it was lucky is too good as an option to leave out...?
To Cavern, I usually name Warrior or Goblin. Sometimes I name Devil (uncounterable Hellrider...) Too good not to play.
I'm aware of the haste, but that makes those spells cost 1R more for the haste. That's why the land is just meh. But yeah the Meld just wins on the spot; that's a fourteen point swing.
Yea I admit now that my foil Cavern might see some play in the deck just to see, lol
I know the land is meh, but as tou said meld wins on the spot... And it can happen! One question though, if you had an Imperial Recruiter available, would it be good enough to include? I mean, it could grab pretty much any needed creature for next turn, I know it is three mana for only one power but getting a strong hasty creature in hand could be good?
Yea I admit now that my foil Cavern might see some play in the deck just to see, lol
I know the land is meh, but as tou said meld wins on the spot... And it can happen! One question though, if you had an Imperial Recruiter available, would it be good enough to include? I mean, it could grab pretty much any needed creature for next turn, I know it is three mana for only one power but getting a strong hasty creature in hand could be good?
So the Recruiter I have would not be good enough to include in this deck? If you had two would you include one in here? Or do you just think it is bad? I could still had Magus of the Moon for the target, as a resolved Magus can be a win against some 2/most of the 3 or more colored decks... Or would it be too much mana investment for no damage?
Also, while I was looking at cards from Kaladesh, I just saw Lathnu Hellion, and I think it could be good for us... It would be 3 mana for a potential 8 damage... I think it could be better than Keldon Champion? I know the champion deals 3 damage right when he enters, but I never pay the echo cost (should I? I personnaly think no), so it can go for a maximum of 6 damage, when the hellion can go for a maximum of 8 in two swings... Or maybe something else could be removed for the hellion? I will definitely test it though.
Another edit But have you already tested Purphoros, God of the Forge? The 5 devotion is not something that difficult to achieve in the deck, and we play a lot of creatures, so we could get some 2 damage triggers, also synergises well with cards such as Hanweir Garrison, Goblin Rabblemaster, Captain's Claws, dashing creatures, unhearth creatures... If we manage to turn him into a creature well he becomes quite a strong beater, and if the game goes a bit longer (bad things can happen sometimes...) it can also be a good mana sink if we no longer have cards in hand to buff our entire army and get those extra damage we might need.
Lathnu Hellion looks like an autoinclude. Deck is starting to build up a critical mass of hasted, undercosted, "disappearing" creatures.
3drinks, you're looking for blistering firecat? I asked a while back why it wasn't in your list, and you said you didn't like too many creatures that go away. Did you change your mind?
So the Recruiter I have would not be good enough to include in this deck? If you had two would you include one in here? Or do you just think it is bad? I could still had Magus of the Moon for the target, as a resolved Magus can be a win against some 2/most of the 3 or more colored decks... Or would it be too much mana investment for no damage?
Also, while I was looking at cards from Kaladesh, I just saw Lathnu Hellion, and I think it could be good for us... It would be 3 mana for a potential 8 damage... I think it could be better than Keldon Champion? I know the champion deals 3 damage right when he enters, but I never pay the echo cost (should I? I personnaly think no), so it can go for a maximum of 6 damage, when the hellion can go for a maximum of 8 in two swings... Or maybe something else could be removed for the hellion? I will definitely test it though.
Another edit But have you already tested Purphoros, God of the Forge? The 5 devotion is not something that difficult to achieve in the deck, and we play a lot of creatures, so we could get some 2 damage triggers, also synergises well with cards such as Hanweir Garrison, Goblin Rabblemaster, Captain's Claws, dashing creatures, unhearth creatures... If we manage to turn him into a creature well he becomes quite a strong beater, and if the game goes a bit longer (bad things can happen sometimes...) it can also be a good mana sink if we no longer have cards in hand to buff our entire army and get those extra damage we might need.
It's bad here b/c I don't need to tutour. All of my cards are close copies of something else. Why am I playing a tutour for something when I can just play...something?
Purphorous is bad here b/c our four drops should win - i.e. Hero, Devil, or potent game changer i.e. Kavu. Purph is four mana and doesn't do anything until I play something else.
Lathnu Hellion looks like an autoinclude. Deck is starting to build up a critical mass of hasted, undercosted, "disappearing" creatures.
3drinks, you're looking for blistering firecat? I asked a while back why it wasn't in your list, and you said you didn't like too many creatures that go away. Did you change your mind?
I've changed my mind on it, mainly after seeing how people react to the "Ball Lightning dilemma". I like that. And I like it more than Elemental Appeal as we can even get an extra 2-4 damage from it before unmorphing.
That all said, I'm not sold on the Hellion, especially as we're looking to add Vehicles. These temporary creatures look bad next to bodies that need reliable creatures in order to attack.
What are the vehicles you are interested into? The ones with haste I guess? All of the ones that require only one creature to crew? How many would you include in the deck? Personnaly, I think Fleetwheel Cruiser would be the best one, with a pretty nice body for the cost, and it can then be crewed by Zurgo alome, it would turn him into more damage. Ovalchase Dragster could also be good. But even if the non hasty ones have nice bodies, are they worth a slot in the deck? Being artifacts that will turn into artifact creatures, they are not that hard to remove... Thoughts?
The new 20 life total benefits Zurgo, but my friend says that Anafenza and Doran will dominate the aggro theme, devouring Zurgo in their way. Let's see what happen.
The new 20 life total benefits Zurgo, but my friend says that Anafenza and Doran will dominate the aggro theme, devouring Zurgo in their way. Let's see what happen.
l'm gonna try a more burn spell-heavy version to go over the ground.
What are the vehicles you are interested into? The ones with haste I guess? All of the ones that require only one creature to crew? How many would you include in the deck? Personnaly, I think Fleetwheel Cruiser would be the best one, with a pretty nice body for the cost, and it can then be crewed by Zurgo alome, it would turn him into more damage. Ovalchase Dragster could also be good. But even if the non hasty ones have nice bodies, are they worth a slot in the deck? Being artifacts that will turn into artifact creatures, they are not that hard to remove... Thoughts?
I'm also a fan of the Freighter and the mana rock guy (albeit not happy about crew3). The Smuggler's Copter is pretty grand too.
The new 20 life total benefits Zurgo, but my friend says that Anafenza and Doran will dominate the aggro theme, devouring Zurgo in their way. Let's see what happen.
l'm gonna try a more burn spell-heavy version to go over the ground.
Maybe go all-in on temporary/vanishing creatures, earthquake, rolling earthquake, flamebreak, slagstorm, chandra's spitfire, etc. etc.
Ok. Just came back to see that DC will now be played with 20 life instead of 30. I don't think I'm pretty happy about that new rule for the format, but I think it will greatly benefit this deck. With 30 life points, we were able to have some wins by turn 5 pretty easily. I have done a couple playtests with my own list (not the one used by you 3drinks, see a couple posts up it's on top of the paage 21 here). Now, I am able to win by turn 4 with almost any hand I start with (goldfishes I know, but this means that the deck as gained in speed). I think it also means we need to modify the deck a bit, because I think there would be a way to be even faster.
1) Now that we have less life, things that hurt us uselessly should get removed I think. Ankh of Mishra and Zo-Zu the Punisher are both excellent cards, but in the OP 3drinks is also including fetchlands. Now, I think fetchalnds should get removed, because it would mean 4 damage for us in a single strike, this should be a thing only an unprepared opponent is damaged for. I also think the 1 life loss would be relevant in the mirror match against another aggro deck, and I think with the new rule switch, aggro decks are going to be much more represented in the format.
2) I think it is now time to cut non-hasty creatures, or creatures that can't attack the turn they come into play. With less life, we want to deal more damage as soon as possible, and even if some creatures like Thunderbreak Regent are good, they can't attack the turn they come into play, they don't always have an impact as soon as they enter (except if an opponent tries to remove them asap). I think some cards like Vexing Devil should be considered again, as now, it either is 4 damage for one mana at sorcery speed early in the game or a 4/3 for only 1 mana later in the game when the opponent would not take the 4 damage right away. I think that with 20 life points, even if the decision belongs to our opponent, it is way better than in a 30 life format. For example in modern, it is sometimes seen in burn builds, and when it can be played it does awesome things. It can also bait removal or counterspells so other threats like Hellrider for example would be able to be cast easier.
3) Self-sacrificing red creatures (Ball Lightning and friends) are now better in the deck I think. They have a high damage for mana ratio, and they can swing for a huge chunk of our opponent's life total at once. As I mentionned earlier, Lathnu Hellion should now be considered I think, and cards like Impetuous Devils could alos be considered.
4) Tangle Wire should be removed. It comes down turn 3 and doesn't deal damage. Now that we have only 20 life, I think the idea would be to deal the 20 as fast as possible, as the game will be faster than with 30 life and we should care less about having to stall or control early game; I would prefer to have something to deal damage in my hands rather than Tangle Wire.
Just realized this also means no longer commander damage, 1 less damage is a win Not relevant for this deck really, but man, why the changes...?
Please tell me if I am wrong, but I think we would be able to rework the deck to make it even faster in a 20 life total format than it currently is.
Titania is, not a good match up. The deck is fast, stone walls us, and has a better late game. Additionally, being mono colour means it's impervious to one of our best cards (Price of Progress!) It's hard to attack with 4/4s for four, when they can create 5/3s for 0. :/
I haven't seen lists that play the Orb, I prefer Sylvan Safekeeper for my free token engine as I value the protection over the 2 life. I find this to be even worse for the Bellstriker deck too.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
1x Zurgo Bellstriker
Creature (38)
1x Abbot of Keral Keep
1x Ash Zealot
1x Ball Lightning
1x Blistering Firecat
1x Borderland Marauder
1x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
1x Chandra's Phoenix
1x Eidolon of the Great Revel
1x Ember Hauler
1x Flametongue Kavu
1x Flamewake Phoenix
1x Goblin Guide
1x Goblin Heelcutter
1x Goblin Rabblemaster
1x Goblin Wardriver
1x Gore-House Chainwalker
1x Hanweir Garrison
1x Hellrider
1x Hell's Thunder
1x Hellspark Elemental
1x Hero of Oxid Ridge
1x Ire Shaman
1x Keldon Champion
1x Keldon Marauders
1x Lava Hounds
1x Lightning Mauler
1x Mardu Scout
1x Mindsparker
1x Mudbrawler Cohort
1x Reckless Reveler
1x Scab-Clan Berserker
1x Slith Firewalker
1x Stigma Lasher
1x Stormblood Berserker
1x Torch Fiend
1x Valley Dasher
1x War-Name Aspirant
1x Zo-Zu the Punisher
1x Brimstone Volley
1x Burst Lightning
1x Char
1x Fireblast
1x Flame Javelin
1x Incinerate
1x Lightning Bolt
1x Lightning Strike
1x Price of Progress
1x Searing Spear
1x Stoke the Flames
Sorcery (4)
1x Chain Lightning
1x Exquisite Firecraft
1x Incendiary Flow
1x Volcanic Hammer
Land (36)
1x Hanweir Battlements
1x Mishra's Factory
34x Mountain
Enchantment (5)
1x Genju of the Spires
1x Manabarbs
1x Pyrostatic Pillar
1x Spellshock
1x Sulfuric Vortex
1x Ankh of Mishra
1x Bonesplitter
1x Grafted Wargear
1x Tangle Wire
Planeswalker (1)
1x Koth of the Hammer
Would you mind reviewing it? I can see there are many differences from the decklist you show on front page, and I would like to know if I missed any good cards, if some would be better inclusions over the ones I run. Budget is not a problem. Also, there are cards I am not sure about from the newest series, like Hanweir Battlements and Hanweir Garrison.
brimstone -> shard volley
stoke -> violent eruption
volcanic hammer -> forked bolt
wargear -> skullclamp
pillar -> captain's claws (I've never liked Pillar in this deck. I'm crazy I know; by the same token, I don't care about keldon marauders here either).
genju -> goblin bushwhacker
war-name -> scourge wolf
stigma -> viashino sandstalker (or his upgrade, Vaultbreaker. I'd try to play both).
mindsparker -> breakneck rider
mardu scout -> phyrexian revoker
marauders -> sin prodder
bonesplitter -> collateral damage (this one is very under-rated, fantastic bolt)
ire shaman -> eldrazi obligator
gore-house -> reckless bushwhacker
both phoenix -> goldnight castigator, thunderbreak regent
flip chandra -> fiery confluence
borderland -> goblin piledriver
archwing dragon is pretty OK at the top of the curve, and sudden demise is of course really good. your manabase needs the most help though.
fetch x4
mutavault
blinkmoth nexus
barbarian ring
teetering peaks
cavern of souls
wasteland
tec edge
rish port
contested war zone (super under rated, although it's bad vs aggro match/mirror)
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Lol, Goldnight has haste. Thundrebreak has pseudo haste b/c when they try to remove him they take damage.
Link: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/zurgo-bellstriker-sligh/ <- that's the last one I played.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
VD isn't anywhere near what Thunderbreak does. VD is all opponent's choice. Thunderbreak is always a 4/4 flyer that Lava Spikes when removed. If you're playing VD, you might as well be playing Browbeat...
Thunderbreak is good for ~7 damage (if he's worth 11, you've probably got this game on lock). VD is worth only what your opponent would prefer to deal with. That's the difference.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I think the land is merely "passable" but not exciting, though the creature is good to spawn to hasty bodies on attack. Together they have more than enough upside to be worth inclusion. Although idk about my list as I have a lot of colourless lands and two spells that rely on sacrificing mountains specifically.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I'm aware of the haste, but that makes those spells cost 1R more for the haste. That's why the land is just meh. But yeah the Meld just wins on the spot; that's a fourteen point swing.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I know the land is meh, but as tou said meld wins on the spot... And it can happen! One question though, if you had an Imperial Recruiter available, would it be good enough to include? I mean, it could grab pretty much any needed creature for next turn, I know it is three mana for only one power but getting a strong hasty creature in hand could be good?
If I could tutour for Hellrider? Yes.
But I can't. So my Recruiter will stay in Alesha.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Also, while I was looking at cards from Kaladesh, I just saw Lathnu Hellion, and I think it could be good for us... It would be 3 mana for a potential 8 damage... I think it could be better than Keldon Champion? I know the champion deals 3 damage right when he enters, but I never pay the echo cost (should I? I personnaly think no), so it can go for a maximum of 6 damage, when the hellion can go for a maximum of 8 in two swings... Or maybe something else could be removed for the hellion? I will definitely test it though.
Another edit But have you already tested Purphoros, God of the Forge? The 5 devotion is not something that difficult to achieve in the deck, and we play a lot of creatures, so we could get some 2 damage triggers, also synergises well with cards such as Hanweir Garrison, Goblin Rabblemaster, Captain's Claws, dashing creatures, unhearth creatures... If we manage to turn him into a creature well he becomes quite a strong beater, and if the game goes a bit longer (bad things can happen sometimes...) it can also be a good mana sink if we no longer have cards in hand to buff our entire army and get those extra damage we might need.
3drinks, you're looking for blistering firecat? I asked a while back why it wasn't in your list, and you said you didn't like too many creatures that go away. Did you change your mind?
It's bad here b/c I don't need to tutour. All of my cards are close copies of something else. Why am I playing a tutour for something when I can just play...something?
Purphorous is bad here b/c our four drops should win - i.e. Hero, Devil, or potent game changer i.e. Kavu. Purph is four mana and doesn't do anything until I play something else.
I've changed my mind on it, mainly after seeing how people react to the "Ball Lightning dilemma". I like that. And I like it more than Elemental Appeal as we can even get an extra 2-4 damage from it before unmorphing.
That all said, I'm not sold on the Hellion, especially as we're looking to add Vehicles. These temporary creatures look bad next to bodies that need reliable creatures in order to attack.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Hightower | Vial/Thrasios | Mogis | Grenzo | Endrek |
Tatyova|Sisay|Zurgo|Breya|Chisei|Marchesa|Olivia|KaradorPauper | Pauper |
Legacy|4fun|4fun|Modern|Frontier|Standardl'm gonna try a more burn spell-heavy version to go over the ground.
I'm also a fan of the Freighter and the mana rock guy (albeit not happy about crew3). The Smuggler's Copter is pretty grand too.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Maybe go all-in on temporary/vanishing creatures, earthquake, rolling earthquake, flamebreak, slagstorm, chandra's spitfire, etc. etc.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
1) Now that we have less life, things that hurt us uselessly should get removed I think. Ankh of Mishra and Zo-Zu the Punisher are both excellent cards, but in the OP 3drinks is also including fetchlands. Now, I think fetchalnds should get removed, because it would mean 4 damage for us in a single strike, this should be a thing only an unprepared opponent is damaged for. I also think the 1 life loss would be relevant in the mirror match against another aggro deck, and I think with the new rule switch, aggro decks are going to be much more represented in the format.
2) I think it is now time to cut non-hasty creatures, or creatures that can't attack the turn they come into play. With less life, we want to deal more damage as soon as possible, and even if some creatures like Thunderbreak Regent are good, they can't attack the turn they come into play, they don't always have an impact as soon as they enter (except if an opponent tries to remove them asap). I think some cards like Vexing Devil should be considered again, as now, it either is 4 damage for one mana at sorcery speed early in the game or a 4/3 for only 1 mana later in the game when the opponent would not take the 4 damage right away. I think that with 20 life points, even if the decision belongs to our opponent, it is way better than in a 30 life format. For example in modern, it is sometimes seen in burn builds, and when it can be played it does awesome things. It can also bait removal or counterspells so other threats like Hellrider for example would be able to be cast easier.
3) Self-sacrificing red creatures (Ball Lightning and friends) are now better in the deck I think. They have a high damage for mana ratio, and they can swing for a huge chunk of our opponent's life total at once. As I mentionned earlier, Lathnu Hellion should now be considered I think, and cards like Impetuous Devils could alos be considered.
4) Tangle Wire should be removed. It comes down turn 3 and doesn't deal damage. Now that we have only 20 life, I think the idea would be to deal the 20 as fast as possible, as the game will be faster than with 30 life and we should care less about having to stall or control early game; I would prefer to have something to deal damage in my hands rather than Tangle Wire.
Just realized this also means no longer commander damage, 1 less damage is a win Not relevant for this deck really, but man, why the changes...?
Please tell me if I am wrong, but I think we would be able to rework the deck to make it even faster in a 20 life total format than it currently is.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething Spicy