MTG Salvation

Intro:
Hello all, This will be the sixth deck I have published. As always I am trying to find the next best original thing to make a deck out of.

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Without Further ado I present my deck list


The deck has gone through quite a few variations. I wanted to be able to use grenzo as a back up but not being reliant on him. The deck evolved to slowly increase the amount of creatures in it which caused the power level to go up for awhile, but then it peaked and started going downhill becoming to reliant on grenzo. Shortly before that point is where I felt the deck was at its strongest and am putting it back to that point with its evolved tech. This is the best 1v1 Duel Commander version of the deck, it has a good balance to face anything without over focusing on beating one thing.

Some cards are listed twice since they fit more then one category, but there is still only one copy of each and a total of 99.


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Why pick him?
If Rakdos is your thing he really fits the bill, both flavor wise and mechanically. He is strong and versatile. Whether you want to play him more goodstuff generating alot of free advantage from his ability, or just using him as a combo tool he is very powerful, and is one of very few generals that can fuel his own combos.

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The Basics:
Typically you throw Grenzo out on turn two and then look to goldfish into one of the decks several combos either as soon as possible or when its safe versus heavy permission. By safe I mean waiting till they tap out or until you get a peek at there hand. When your not goldfishing or when you are waiting for a safe time to do so Grenzo is a fabulous mana sink, there are just enough creatures in the deck to be able to use his ability as a backup plan or when you have nothing else to do. But not so many that the deck is reliant on using him to win. You usually wait until your opponents EOT to use Grenzos ability.

Grenzo's ability does indeed get around Leyline of the Void and Rest In Peace, but it does not get around grafdiggers cage or wheel of sun and moon.

Combos:
Worldgorger Dragon in grave+necromancy/dance of the dead/animate dead equals infinite mana, although grenzo already needs to be on the field, or there needs to be another creature in a grave somewhere or the game will end in a draw. Do be cautious using this combo as if they have removal for dragon your entire field will permanently be exiled.

Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker+Worldgorger Dragon=Infinite mana

Once you have infinite mana cast and spam grenzos ability, until you get to siege gang commander and then sacrifice grenzo to him over and over.

Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker+ Zealous Conscripts=infinite hasty tokens

Necrotic ooze with triskelion and phyrexian devourer in grave=indefinite damage

Use Moggcatcherto search for Goblin Settler and then Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker for some very rude land destruction.

Stuffy Doll+Fire Covenant+having the same or more life as your opponent.

Insidious Dreams combo: Aside from being a solid instant speed tutor it has several combos.

Insidious Dreams on eot discarding 3, Faithless Looting on top, followed by Worldgorger Dragon and Animate Dead

If Grenzo is at three power you can use Insidious Dreams for three instead putting Howltooth Hollow, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, and Zealous Conscripts on top.

Doomsday Stacks
5 land: ?, Zealous Conscripts, Mad Auntie, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Priest of Gix.
This is the primary one as you can do it the turn you doom assuming grenzo is already on the field. If grenzo is at three power already, you can add in another utility pick instead of Mad Auntie.

6 Mana: Zealous, Mad Aunti, Kiki, Brain, Workhorse. A small variation of the first stack, having that one extra mana lets you add in a card like Brain Maggotbefore kiki as an extra precaution.

3 land: Unmask, Conscript, Mad Auntie, Kiki, Priest of Gix. If you dont think you can hit 5 mana, this one you can use if you dont mind waiting a turn to go off, it comes with the added protection of unmask.

Lastly a back up if Kiki/Conscript have been exiled or are in hand, or you couldent get grenzo to stick.
3 land: Faithless Looting, Worldgorger Dragon, Animate Dead, ?, Siege-Gang Commander

The question marks can be filled with situational cards, typically unmask, a back up animate, or mana.
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Onto card selection and why I have chosen the slots I have

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Maybe Board:
Other cards I have considered and either took out or haven't gotten around to testing/couldent find things to take out for them:



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Bad Matchups:



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Epilogue/Looking to improve:
I really feel it has the potential to reach top tier. Any constructive criticism would be appreciated as I am starting to put the finishing touches on it.
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Change Log:
Since posting thread

June 2017
The loss of necrotic ooze was pretty rough, but it freed up some room and I opted to include some more land hate cards giving Stax as an alternate win con.I also have been slowly trying to increase the creature count.

Older Updates:
Vancouver mull did good and bad things for the deck, a free scry with grenzo can be powerful, but at the same time the deck was reliant on aggressively mulling out all creatures from hand for land or combo pieces. Lately I really felt the land hurt so I decided to cut a few less used things for a couple extra lands, including entomb due to its banning. The loss of entomb has slowed down the decks clock by a full turn in many situations, a painful ban, but not devastating as the deck is good at surviving at any point in the game.

I know I argued that Oblivion Stone should stay, and up until vancouver I really felt it was the way, but vancouver hurts the mana in this deck and stone was a little pricey for what it does without reliably having lots of land. It may make its way back in if I really miss it.

Lately I have just been playing the goodstuff version anyways since its what I could afford in real life and it is better for multiplayer which is a lot of my irl games, so my testing of the core deck is lacking with entomb gone and vancouver.

This deck is terrifying, easily comboes out T4-T5 almost every game. A lot of different ways it can win too so no one way can completely ice it. No much to add other then adding strong support cards, maybe like Tainted Pact in dire situations or when you need a quick land

Thanks perfekt :). Glad to have your comment. Tainted pack is a good idea, cut suggestion?

I've seen that deck in action. I'm really curious about its weaknesses :3

Weakness is bad hands, and misplays both of which especially late at night I am notorious for.

What about

Black Sun's Zenith
Bubbling Muck
Snuff Out
Peat Bog
Lake of the Dead
Ebon Stronghold

Although i can see you wanting Stone over Zenith since stone hits other things too even though it costs a lot of mana but it's a thought.

How useful do you find Lightning Greaves to be? That's what I would cut for pact.

Loving the deck so far though, I played against you tonight on cockatrice with Animar

Zenith is strong, but its expensive and space is really tight.

Snuff just misses to many big threats, id take a creature that does removal over it.

Deck has a good tempo doesn't really need boost from muck, and as great as the lands are tempo usually prefers that I cast non tap lands, rather then get extra mana. I will still try them out and see how it goes, thanks for the suggestions.

Greaves are on my watchlist for cutting, its nice to protect grezo but largely they have not added much.

All my non win cons are control factors, and having the control in creatures that he can abuse is really were its at. Keep in mind using worldgorger does want something else in the grave or you draw. But yes I often use grezo turn two and onwards for defense and stax, and because I have that back up creature count with stax effects I can do quite well vs most archtypes.

Creature count is a little low, but the deck is very cramped for room and they were all I could fit.

Not fan of cabal out of monoblack, no real room for map. Other lilis are not really worth it, deck does not struggle with ramp. Sign in blood is solid but I cut it due to being cramped on room,guides are meh. However Perilous vault is a very good Idea I will try to find room for it.

Mind claw may be getting switched for maggot(I'm already running fiend :D) as neat as it is, counter spells are my problem, and it wont get those. Mindclaw can do truly crazy things, he is staying.

Pact is a new edition, it replaced sign in blood, only whiffs if your greedy.

What about Siege-Gang Commander as your infinite mana win condition, cutting Rakdos Guildmage?

Not running Sign in Blood is a mistake imo. It's extremely good on turn 2 and turn 20, saying you don't have room for it is like saying you don't have room for Ponder.

Is Rain of Filth necessary? Unlike Dark Ritual you don't want to use it outside of the combo turn making it a dead card most of the time.

Rain of filth is necessary because it is part of a doomsday stack.

Seige gang commander cant make infinite goblins on his own he would need to already be on the field when using gorger, rakdos does everything by himself and can serve as pitching/killing himself if need be. Gang can not replace rakdos but he is pretty strong and I may find room for him anyways as he can work in the combo and I have been wanting some direct damage because of animar anyways.

Sigh I have argued against the use of ponder as well in specific decks, but everyone screams blasphemy whenever I say some decks have a different tempo then most and extra draw is rarely needed when I would prefer that card to just be one of what I would draw from it and instead be playing that. Turn 2 I want to be casting commander anyways, turn 3 I am either tutoring or using gangs effect, and the two BB is off putting as well. I can not argue that is is one of the best draw spells short of the blue cantrips. The deck is cramped for room, I would love to fit it in, but most of the slots are pretty crucial. And the three draw spells I did pick are better then it.

Thank you for your input I appreciate it, your welcome to suggest cuts in case there is an obvious one that I am missing, but the deck has pretty tight synergy and its proportions are were I like them.

I've seen your mirror match but can't count the score because I came during the middle of the game. Looks like you're on the winning end.

2-0 my favor

Regarding Siege-Gang Commander, he works just fine as an infinite mana win condition.

• Reanimage Worldgorger Dragon and make your mana
• Cast Grenzo as necessary
• Grenzo your library into play until you hit Siege-Gang Commander
• Sacrifice Grenzo to Siege-Gang Commander (Grenzo is a goblin) dealing 2 damage to the opponent
• Recast Grenzo
• Repeat 14+ times

i think recurring nightmare is banned

In regular EDH aka regular Commander, it is ban. In Duel Commander aka French EDH, it's legal.

What about Brain Maggot?

Totaly forgot grenzo was a goblin that makes sense, still like rakdos as his is all done instant speed, but siege has been added in as a welcome addition. Brain Maggot really is solid will switch it in for now.

I run to many non basics and I don't ramp well, id first add in the 2 power land destruction creatures before that, but thanks for the suggestion.

So I have run into two things, the first being the horrifying ruling on dragon that if something kills/bounces him in response to his exile trigger, he leaves, everything exiles and nothing comes back. So I may need to be adding in even more hand destruction for fear of murdering my self with dragon, and or looking for another infinite mana combo. what are peoples thoughts?

The second being how much I hate Animar, I am considering dropping my direct removals in favor of lightning bolt and the like to deal with him. The 3+ damage burn spells do take care of most big threats. Thoughts?

I thought about artifact destruction, but decided that I would include helm/leyline in its place. Especially because the graf/relic are not to common, but leyline/wheel and enchants that my colors cant deal with are. So rather then trying to tech against it, I included a non grave options (Helm is a hiliarous drop when people play leyline/Rip trying to stop my stuff :P). Technically kiki/conscriptor counts as well since they both can be hardcasted. Chaoswarp is a good card, and I may find room for it.

So far the deck has been wrecking everything. Almost perfect record have faced Animar, Rahda, Geist, thalia, clique, kammi, Captain sissay, Maelstorm, Prosh, arbiter, and a handful or rouges.

I Did loose a game to doran, I won game 1, game two he path to exiled my dragon, game three I got hit with Armageddon. I have not run into marath but she scares me, cus she will remove an early general cast, and can combo pretty fast on her own. I suspect Evergreens Iname could be rough on me the truckload of removal he pacts makes playing dragon way to risky, although Id just go leyline vs him. Basically bad match ups are fast clock things like doran that pack truckloads of removal.

Im thinking of switching out my targeted removals for either cheap mass, or strait burn because animar is just as fast as I am.

I came up against another Kami combo deck and it did beat me hard, but that may have just been luck, hard to say. I do feel they are mostly positive. It just attacks from so many differnt angles and fast. It can aggro, stax, or combo, and adjust as need be. All pretty low mana stuff, and has an answer to everything. I am really proud of it.

I'm a big fan of the innovation that went into this list. I've tinkered on occasion with Worldgorger Dragon shells, usually with Scion of the Ur-Dragon, but always found them lacking. Grenzo is a very powerful card, and you've correctly identified it as a potential win-condition with infinite mana, which I hadn't really clued into.

I haven't seen your deck in action, but I understand that your testing results have been impressive. That said, there are quite a few things about your list that bug me and make me feel there's a lot of tuning that needs to be done still.

The biggest issue is that you need to decide whether this is to be a "Grenzo deck" or not. By that I mean, are you going to play a sufficient quantity of creatures with power 2 or less to make activating Grenzo worth your time and mana? I don't have a clear idea of how many creatures is enough, but I would estimate that if you're playing dorky aggro creatures, you probably need to hit around 50% of the time. If you're playing more powerful creatures to flip, like Pentavus or Minion of the Wastes, something like 33% is probably sufficient. I'm making those numbers up but they sound about right to me.

Your list is only 16% to flip something in off Grenzo. That's horrendous, and basically means that you should be only be activating Grenzo if you have literally nothing else to do with your mana, since the expected value is so low. And yet, you're playing junk like Sanity Gnawers, Blazing Specter, and Viashino Racketeer that I can't imagine you'd play if you weren't hoping to flip them with Grenzo, since they're not powerful cards and I don't see any other reason you'd include them.

So you're playing cards that are only good to flip off Grenzo, in a deck where it's not profitable to activate Grenzo. That's bad. If you're going to play all these spells and so few creatures, just cut all the creatures except the ones that are great by themselves or part of your win, and plan on rarely activating Grenzo until you go off. That would be a bit boring (and probably worse than Scion of the Ur-Dragon, which gives you more options and also tutors Worldgorger Dragon), but I think it would be better for the style of deck you're presenting.

On the other hand...the Worldgorger combo is only, what, like 5 slots? You could play that AND play enough creatures to leverage this intrinsic power of Grenzo (which is very high indeed and definitely wins games). I think an aggro deck with a backdoor combo plan sounds very strong and difficult to deal with (decks strong against aggro tend to be weak to this combo, and vice versa). I also think a deck filled with expensive but powerful 2 or less power creatures and the dragon combo sounds completely awesome, though I'm not sure it would be better than the aggro version. Such a deck could also play the Necrotic Ooze, Triskelion, Phyrexian Devourer combo, since it already has the right kind of infrastructure and the latter two are pretty great with Grenzo anyway. It would probably be weak to decks that can attack your lands or repeatedly kill Grenzo though.

Speaking of win conditions, Rakdos Guildmage is awful here. Sure it wins with infinite mana, but so do plenty of other things. Grenzo is already such a powerful manasink that there are no other situations where you'd want to use Rakdos Guildmage. Siege-Gang Commander is great, and you can also just play Spikeshot Elder and not feel bad about it at all. Those 2 are enough. I'm not a fan of shoehorning in the Leyline of the Void/Helm of Obedience combo...any black deck in the format can play it, but there's a reason why none of the good ones do. It's too clunky, especially when it's getting you to include expensive tutors like Diabolic Tutor. Clunk clunk clunk. It's too slow to beat good decks and has 0 synergy with the rest of your deck.

I'm undecided about Doomsday. The card is certainly powerful, but it's also a little slow and extremely vulnerable to disruption. None of your stacks blow me away with their efficiency and elegance...they all include cards I'd rather not play in this deck and have no protection. I'm not going to say cut it or keep it but it's definitely not a slam dunk in this deck and I don't know how useful it really is. It wins sometimes, but it will also definitely lose you games you could otherwise have won. Tainted Pact is pretty bad in a deck with so many basics, especially one that requires that certain cards still be in your deck for you to be able to win. You simply cannot use it well with 14 Swamps. You can and should switch half of your basics to snow-covered lands, but even then I wouldn't use it here.

So...yeah, I like your deck a lot, but I'd change pretty much everything about it. You can't play combo and control and aggro all at the same time like this. It weakens all of them. I do think that Grenzo has reasonable synergy with Worldgorger Dragon combo and it gives the deck a nice angle, but you either need to focus on that entirely and ignore Grenzo's other applications, or make a strong Grenzo deck first and fit the combo in as an alternate win. You can't split the difference like this, it just makes both plans worse.

To be honest I did not come up with worldgorger off the top of my head, I had just been googling infinite mana combos for my colors and tinkering with them, and then I actually faced a guy who used it and really liked it. His grenzo was running a very low creature count, with an awkward reanimtor shell packed full of ways to abuse dragon. His name was lhf. He also showed me that Mogg Fanatic could go infinite with ooze as well, which is a much better slot then devourer, allthough I may still try to fit devourer as well.

The set up is to be able to combo safely, most of the creatures have a discard effect which lets me use the ever so dangerous worldgorger combo, or doomsday without murdering my self. Both can be done turn three or earlier, but are only safe to do after you know there hand, and or they are playing without black/white/blue. But without that "Junk" that hard targets my opponents hands, those combos become just to dangerous to use effectively. Hand destruction is always strong, and when it comes to picking which to use, it either needs to random, repeatable, or targeted, the ones that just let the opponent discard only once the card he doesn't need are actually junk. Doomsday is a card that requires a lot of practice to use properly, you only use it when you know its safe or if your going to loose anyways. I practically never loose using doom unless I was already going to and it was an act of desperation. You say they are slow but are both very fast, easily stealing games turn four or sooner.

I like viashino, yea hes not the best, but he is a nice nitch little card that can pitch dragon from my hand and give me a random draw when I need it, and he is cheap enough to cast without grenzo. (Side note my list is closer to 20% if you include the creatures from my win con side, which is a comfy number, but it would be nice to increase it a little)

It really is not an aggro shell at all, its a control/combo shell, there is just enough in there to give me some chump blockers and get me a sneak at there hand. It can switch to creature beatdown on good mills or vs control decks that have to focus on stopping my combo but this is not the primary focus of the deck, so I run just enough to make it "Possible" without a concern for whether its practical or not.

Originally I included the ooze combo, but it was surprisingly clunky pretty much only working with buried alive, it filled up a few slots and did not work with doomsday and grenzo cant usualy hit ooze. Its an incredibly powerful combo, and it has been a mainstay in my Ooze, and mono black decks. I have been considering trying to fit it back in, but I cut it for the helm/leyline combo, which have served me quite well, and would not take ooze over it, but I am trying to get it back in.

The thing about helm/leyline is without them I am pretty much entirely grave reliant (a plan which backfires all to often), and then all combos are foiled by creature removal as well. They add a perfect out to when people play grave hate vs me, and gives me a non creature, non grave based combo. It has served me well and won me many games. Leyline is also a powerful counter to a lot of strong decks as well.

I will switch into snow/non snow been meaning to do that anyways, and test it out some more. As I said it is a very new card, and may get switched with sign in blood if it does not serve me well, it is on my watch list.

Spikeshot elder is a nice idea, it may indeed replace guildmage.

The deck is a little odd in the respect that it can kind of switch its archetype mode as need be, but that "Undecided" factor makes it really hard to combat, and has let me do well vs all kinds of decks, it may seem a little scattered, but I feel it is really less unfocused, and more versatile.

I see you made some changes. I agree with the direction you're moving (replacing spells with creatures), though I think it needs to go farther and I still like some of the spells you cut (Liliana, Recurring Nightmare, maybe Terminate). I'd much rather cut clunky expensive spells like Oblivion Stone and Diabolic Tutor than these powerful and efficient ones. I don't think Master of Cruelties or Dauthi Mindripper are good enough either. The decision to include Necrotic Ooze and Triskelion without Phyrexian Devourer is a little odd, though I realize Mogg Fanatic also works. It might be too unwieldy a combo, but since you want more creatures anyway I'd at least try it.

I saw you play a game and a half on Cockatrice just now...still looks clunky to me. Powerful, yes, but kind of all over the place. I saw you activate Grenzo 5 times and only hit once, which is about what the math would predict. That's horribly inefficient. You gave your opponent about two virtual time walks on turns where you achieved absolutely nothing.

It's funny that you got the idea from lhf. He also made the last list I thought interesting enough to comment on, for Brago. I tried to get him to post on here since I think he has great ideas, but he said his English isn't good enough.

I still think your discard creatures are junk. You need targeted discard, repeatable or single use random isn't enough. A single random discard from Sanity Gnawers doesn't safely clear the way for anything, and if you have enough time to work someone's hand over with Blazing Specter their draw/deck must have been awful. It's too slow. Brain Maggot and Mesmeric Fiend are great, Entomber Exarch and Mindclaw Shaman are fine. I like both Hypnotic Specter and Shimian Specter over what you're using, and I suspect that Disciple of Phenax may actually make the cut if you're able to add enough creatures to make using Grenzo worthwhile. I'm also interested in Sadistic Hypnotist...it requires a certain density of creatures, but is potentially extremely powerful in this deck.

Doomsday is not as fast or safe as you're describing. It can sometimes be one or the other, but almost never both. It does not "easily steal games turn four or sooner," and requires a real godhand to get it off that quick with any sort of protection. Even then, it's not like you instantly win when you resolve it. In general your opponent is going to have at least 2 draw steps between you seeing their hand and you actually winning, and if they draw or have something as simple as any counterspell, any bounce, enchantment removal, in some cases creature removal, or a huge number of other cards that commonly see play, you just lose. That's not all that safe. It's also costing you more slots, since Rain of Filth and Infernal Contract are both quite sketchy in my opinion, and I'm not sure a properly built Grenzo deck even wants Night's Whisper...sinking that mana into Grenzo is usually going to be better if you have enough creatures. I don't get your Animate Dead, ?, ?, Spikeshot Elder, Worldgorger Dragon stack either, though maybe I'm missing something. Again, I'm not saying Doomsday isn't worth playing, but it requires rigorously testing once things are more tuned. I'm not sold on it.

Viashino Racketeer is bad. It's embarrassingly bad. The card was barely playable in limited, and it does nothing essential for you here. I'd much sooner play Mad Prophet or Rummaging Goblin, and I'm not at all sure those are worth playing either.

I was including those creatures in your win conditions when I counted. You were at 16% to hit before your changes, now you're at 22%. That is nowhere near a "comfy number". You're sinking an average of 10 mana into Grenzo for any creature you get, and few of those creatures are worth more than 4 mana. That's not how you win games unless you're insanely lucky all the time. I think "comfy" would be around 40% to hit, and acceptable would be around 30%.

Yeah, your list isn't really aggro, but several of the (too few) creatures you have are just very weak, as I've been explaining. They don't effectively compliment either a control or a combo plan. While anything's possible, it's highly unrealistic to expect that creature beatdown with your list is going to ever be viable against a competent opponent. You don't need chump blockers, and you shouldn't even be thinking about trying to enable this backup plan unless you're going to put some more creatures behind it.

I know the Ooze combo can be clunky too. I'm not at all sure it's good enough (though I like Triskelion by itself) That said, it's only a little bit more unwieldly than the Helm/Leyline combo, and the pieces have infinitely more synergy with Grenzo and the reanimation you're already playing.

I wouldn't worry about graveyard hate. It's not played that much, can always be played around, and all the discard you should be playing anyway is generally effective. Evergreen's Iname is much more graveyard reliant than this deck, and he hasn't had any problems. Since Grenzo wants you to play a bunch of creatures anyways, playing enough creatures to have a legitimate win through attacking is a better out to rare graveyard hate than yet another combo. The more combos you play, the weaker additional ones get, the more you need to play bad tutors, and the weaker your overall synergies get.

I don't deny that your deck is versatile. I still think it's unfocused. You're heavily focused on combo and playing a lot of inefficient fluff to try to make them consistent. All of your combos are fairly easy to disrupt though. I can't see your control or dorky creature suite being enough to best something like Animar, Marath, or a decent control deck though. Perhaps I'm wrong, but that's just how it looks to me.

I did a little search earlier for cards that I think are at least worth considering in a "big Grenzo" deck that's trying to maximize power from Grenzo activations. I would want at least 30-35 creatures that Grenzo can flip to make this worth considering, but such a deck should be excellent if Grenzo sticks. Such a deck can easily include the Worldgorger Dragon combo. There are plenty of small creatures that definitely make the cut too, I'm just talking about cards with cmc 4 or more that are somewhat inefficient to cast, but potentially backbreaking off of Grenzo.

Land destruction:
Avalanche Riders
Ravenous Baboons
Goblin Settler
Petravark
Braids, Cabal Minion

Discard:
Disciple of Phenax
Entomber Exarch
Mindclaw Shaman
Shimian Specter
Sadistic Hypnotist

Removal: (I only particularly like Duplicant and perhaps Murderous Redcap out of this bunch)
Duplicant
Murderous Redcap
Nekrataal
Faceless Butcher
Outrage Shaman

Big guns:
Herald of Leshrac
Ignition Team
Minion of the Wastes
Pentavus
Triskelavus
Triskelion

Other:
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Mad Prophet
Moggcatcher (while I don't like creatures that cost mana to use since Grenzo is such a good manasink, this guy is worth the mana)
Phyrexian Devourer
Siege-Gang Commander
Solemn Simulacrum

Those are all the creatures with cmc 4 or more that I think are worth thinking about in a Grenzo deck. Difficulty casting these spells is inversely proportional to their power when flipped off Grenzo, so a list with a critical mass of cards like this would be very explosive provided you can get Grenzo to stick.

25 creatures is a little more then 25% not 22, but not important. All the clunky stuff you keep suggesting to cut are things that wins me games again and again, or give me answers to big problems. Out of 30 some odd games, against alot of good players, I have a near perfect record. Two were to bad luck against maelstrom, and 1 against doran who is just crazy strong as usual, 1 against kami/yissan (although I did beat all of those excluding doran a few times as well)

Mogg was clunky because ooze does not have haste, so I went back to devouerer. It was tough cutting those powerhouses like lili, but there are creatures that will do theirjob, and it was either them or combo enablers, so they went.

You keep saying "properly built", but a focused creature based grenzo is different from dedicated combo grenzo. First and foremost it is a combo deck, grenzo is a combo tool, and a mana sink rather then the primary focus. Although I am trying to phase in a higher creature count to improve him. But it is not an aggro deck, or a goodstuff deck, nor do I want it to be. So the bigg guns are not for me (although Leshrac is a monster, I may put him in)

I already tried out the land destruction suite and decided against it, the decks that can give me a tough time are fast paced mana dorking decks that don't need their lands like doran, marath, animar and the like, and or nice slow paced card advantage generating control decks like kami that barely blink at the loss of a land. (It may be good against maelstrom but I am not convinced he is actually a bad match up yet, but if he proves to be consistently troublesome I will try to phase them back in)

Im not fond of the slow paced specters, or the narrow removals.

Hypnotist has a lot of potential, if I can get bmy count up he is going in. Mad prophet is good, and I may try to fit him, but I still like racketteer, three mana is perfect if he is in my hand, at 2, and 4 I want mana for other stuff, but I think I am dropping him for disciple anways.

I am already running Braids, Siege, Kiki, Devouerer, duplicant, outrage, triskelion, Entomber Exarch, Mindclaw Shaman

(Doomsday stack #1, grenzo on field play doom, either mill dragon that turn, or on your upcoming turn. Draw into animate, animate dragon, infinite mana, mill the spike for the infinite damage. The ? are just that, w/e is appropriate for the time. Also while I may get a bit defensive, I really appreciate and value your input)

Thank you two very much for the stack idea, it is really good and I wish I had come up with it my self.

I will work on fitting in one of those or something very similar. As much as it would be nice to have cabal as a discard route, problem is, if they have creature removal, they will likely use it in response to doomsday anyways, or in response to the trigger of adding more mana. So it really is superfluous if your trying to win the turn you dday, which you should only do if the route is safe anyways.

Digger and Ashnods I am not fond of, id rather spend the mana sending more stuff from deck to the grave, it has no need for a sacrifice engine nor does it really need ramp either.

I find grisel to be way to clunky. Grenzo does not flip him, and he is massive bribery bait. I don't have a heavy reanimtor package and those I do are better invested on dragon or ooze. Hes a strong card, and in a reanimator focused version of the deck he would be a must.