I partially understand your reason for leaving out Dragon Mage, but it seems to refill your hand too efficiently to cut. Every time you get it to activate you can get a new Kaalia target.
I partially understand your reason for leaving out Dragon Mage, but it seems to refill your hand too efficiently to cut. Every time you get it to activate you can get a new Kaalia target.
...And then every time you're giving your opponent a fresh hand as well. This problem is only further compounded in multiplayer (would you play a draw7 if it meant playing against a draw21? I wouldn't).
That said it might be hilariously effective in conjunction with Sire of Insanity - but Sire is insanely good on it's own - he needs no help from the Dragon Wizard to "get good".
It seems that my meta is very disadvantageous to Kaalia. Prossh has lots of disruption and removal. Marath basically just sits and waits for Kaalia to appear to ping her down. And all of the Wxx decks pack things like Prison Term, Darksteel Mutation and Arrest against my commander. Sygg is basically a wall of counters and removal
Any ideas how to approach this meta?
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It seems that my meta is very disadvantageous to Kaalia. Prossh has lots of disruption and removal. Marath basically just sits and waits for Kaalia to appear to ping her down. And all of the Wxx decks pack things like Prison Term, Darksteel Mutation and Arrest against my commander. Sygg is basically a wall of counters and removal
Any ideas how to approach this meta?
First of all...I'm trying to figure out why these forums just linked those cards above when I quoted your post. >_> But let's move past that haha.
Alright. So you've got UB permission, Jund disruption, and Naya aggro-("combo"?).
The first thing that comes to my mind, is how are you playing versus these decks? Are you just running Kaalia out there asap to win? Are you disrupting them more and then dropping the commander when it's (should be) safe? Are you in multiplayer or 1v1?
Now with those out of the way. Versus permission like Sygg, you need to bait the counters. Play Kaalia on t5 and see if they remove/counter it (if they don't, sweet, you probably just won) if they do, cool, you can play her again next turn - if she eats it here, you can hardcast most fatties anyway. If it's counters specifically, fetch Cavern of Souls asap - I like t1 Cavern < Mother of Runes which is frustratingly effective versus them. Other key cards in this matchup is Grand Abolisher (which coincidentally can also be cast off Cavern which always names Human for us) and Defense Grid.
It's worth noting, that heavy permission/board control decks are always going to be a hard match up for us. I don't really think there is a sound "go to" strat that works "100% of the time, every time". This is because while Kaalia looks like an aggro deck, we're really more of a combo deck.
Against Marath, you're the control deck, not the aggro deck. Do not try to aggro them because, no, it just isn't going to happen - they have a commander that can pick off ours at will, while not exactly stifling their own game plan but setting ours back a number of turns. We don't play that many sweepers for this, of course, but the sweepers we do play (when used strategically) and in conjunction with our plentiful spot removal, should be enough to wear them out. Once they're worn out, we can lay our commander and slither through the grass, like a Viper and ready to strike. (Yes, I had to make the Randy Orton reference there :P)
Against Prossh, learn his combos - Food Chain & the red God are the primary ones (and can be answered rather cleanly via Return to Dust). You know Jund is packing disruption, so don't ever play Kaalia onto a "blind" board - fire off a Mind Twist or windmill a Sire of Insanity, or just flat out pick his their hand apart with Thoughtseize effects. All you need is one attack to win (Master or Rakdos will do the trick, while Iona shuts off his combo [he can't play his commander] regardless of what you name).
A few pages back, there should be a post of mine geared for heavy disruption (and plays much fewer threats). Give that a whirl if you're still having trouble.
Is this helpful for you? If not let me know and we can try to go further in-depth. =)
The first thing that comes to my mind, is how are you playing versus these decks? Are you just running Kaalia out there asap to win? Are you disrupting them more and then dropping the commander when it's (should be) safe? Are you in multiplayer or 1v1?
I am playing Kaalia in Duel Commander. She doesn't appeal to me in multiplayer
My Kaalia build is focused on just putting out Kaalia ASAP with heavy disruption backup.
Now with those out of the way. Versus permission like Sygg, you need to bait the counters. Play Kaalia on t5 and see if they remove/counter it (if they don't, sweet, you probably just won) if they do, cool, you can play her again next turn - if she eats it here, you can hardcast most fatties anyway. If it's counters specifically, fetch Cavern of Souls asap - I like t1 Cavern < Mother of Runes which is frustratingly effective versus them. Other key cards in this matchup is Grand Abolisher (which coincidentally can also be cast off Cavern which always names Human for us) and Defense Grid.
Grand Abolisher usually just eats removal for me(I count removing him as a "discard"). I rarely get to use him as a Kalia protector. Defense Grid seem worth it though. That's why I ordered one already. If only there was a City of Solitude enchantment in Kaalia colors.....
It's worth noting, that heavy permission/board control decks are always going to be a hard match up for us. I don't really think there is a sound "go to" strat that works "100% of the time, every time". This is because while Kaalia looks like an aggro deck, we're really more of a combo deck.
I guess there is no easy fix for this.
Against Marath, you're the control deck, not the aggro deck. Do not try to aggro them because, no, it just isn't going to happen - they have a commander that can pick off ours at will, while not exactly stifling their own game plan but setting ours back a number of turns. We don't play that many sweepers for this, of course, but the sweepers we do play (when used strategically) and in conjunction with our plentiful spot removal, should be enough to wear them out. Once they're worn out, we can lay our commander and slither through the grass, like a Viper and ready to strike. (Yes, I had to make the Randy Orton reference there :P)
Noted. I am doing it wrong then because I try to remove Marath everytime and just hope that my Kaalia lives when I lay it down.
I really missed out on Linvala. I sold mine before back on RoE and when I checked them now, they are very expensive. Would have been good in this matchup.
Against Prossh, learn his combos - Food Chain & the red God are the primary ones (and can be answered rather cleanly via Return to Dust). You know Jund is packing disruption, so don't ever play Kaalia onto a "blind" board - fire off a Mind Twist or windmill a Sire of Insanity, or just flat out pick his their hand apart with Thoughtseize effects. All you need is one attack to win (Master or Rakdos will do the trick, while Iona shuts off his combo [he can't play his commander] regardless of what you name).
- Thankfully, the Prossh builds I am facing is more into a token-based approach(never saw Food Chain combo). Basically drop Prossh then kill via Beastmaster Ascension, Coat of Arms or Shared Animosity
- Isn't Mind Twist banned in Duel Commander?
- I see you mentioned Thoughtseize here. So I guess it IS important.
- Unfortunately, I don't have Iona, Griselbrand or Avacyn. I am close to getting a good trade for Griselbrand or Avacyn but the only Iona available in our LGS is the one used by the Oloro Player.
A few pages back, there should be a post of mine geared for heavy disruption (and plays much fewer threats). Give that a whirl if you're still having trouble.
Is this helpful for you? If not let me know and we can try to go further in-depth. =)
Thanks for the advice. I have a suboptimal list so I am hesitant to post it here. But if you want to see it then, sure.
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The first thing that comes to my mind, is how are you playing versus these decks? Are you just running Kaalia out there asap to win? Are you disrupting them more and then dropping the commander when it's (should be) safe? Are you in multiplayer or 1v1?
I am playing Kaalia in Duel Commander. She doesn't appeal to me in multiplayer
Gotcha. Always nice to verify what format you're playing as the deck has a very different approach depending. In DC, fewer targets is obligatory while playing more disruption.
Yes. T-Seize and IoK are absolutely worth it. 80% of the time, they are the best cards in your deck. Other disruptions I have loved are Sinkhole, Vindicate, Red Elemental Blast, and Pyroblast (they never see the latter two coming).
Upping Kaalia targets to compensate for lack of tutours doesn't work - those critters are just one purpose, while the tutours are finding anything you need. For you, Demonic, & Enlightened should be paramount and a third tutour would do very, very well - I like Grim Tutor here (but holy $300 card) so Gamble may or may not be an acceptable replacement. I play two equipments only (Greaves and SoLaS). The former is a cheap haste outlet, protection, and curves nicely into Kaalia while the latter is a Lock outlet (Yosei + PhyTower)
Now with those out of the way. Versus permission like Sygg, you need to bait the counters. Play Kaalia on t5 and see if they remove/counter it (if they don't, sweet, you probably just won) if they do, cool, you can play her again next turn - if she eats it here, you can hardcast most fatties anyway. If it's counters specifically, fetch Cavern of Souls asap - I like t1 Cavern < Mother of Runes which is frustratingly effective versus them. Other key cards in this matchup is Grand Abolisher (which coincidentally can also be cast off Cavern which always names Human for us) and Defense Grid.
Grand Abolisher usually just eats removal for me(I count removing him as a "discard"). I rarely get to use him as a Kalia protector. Defense Grid seem worth it though. That's why I ordered one already. If only there was a City of Solitude enchantment in Kaalia colors.....
If Abolisher eats removal, it's doing it's job (it's a very powerful card) - then we're making them spend their removal on our Bear Cub and not on the "Star of the Show". If it sticks, you're gonna win.
It's worth noting, that heavy permission/board control decks are always going to be a hard match up for us. I don't really think there is a sound "go to" strat that works "100% of the time, every time". This is because while Kaalia looks like an aggro deck, we're really more of a combo deck.
I guess there is no easy fix for this.
Nope, unfortunately not. That's just how the game is played at it's corre.
Against Marath, you're the control deck, not the aggro deck. Do not try to aggro them because, no, it just isn't going to happen - they have a commander that can pick off ours at will, while not exactly stifling their own game plan but setting ours back a number of turns. We don't play that many sweepers for this, of course, but the sweepers we do play (when used strategically) and in conjunction with our plentiful spot removal, should be enough to wear them out. Once they're worn out, we can lay our commander and slither through the grass, like a Viper and ready to strike. (Yes, I had to make the Randy Orton reference there :P)
Noted. I am doing it wrong then because I try to remove Marath everytime and just hope that my Kaalia lives when I lay it down.
I really missed out on Linvala. I sold mine before back on RoE and when I checked them now, they are very expensive. Would have been good in this matchup.
Well to be fair, Linvala is very much a meta card (sometimes she's just a silly four mana 3/4). However versus any meta you suspect mana dorks (Ezuri, Marath, some Prossh lists) I'd make the call to play her. And hey, removing Marath isn't a bad play in a vacuum (it creates card disadvantage though) but it can buy time if you need it. Obviously I'd mention Hallowed Burial here but y'all don't play with tuck rules over there (replace this with Damnation or, Toxic Deluge. The other one (as I mention further down) is Fire Covenant.
Oh, and never ever assume "Well maybe she is safe..." because every time you say that, she never is. (speaking from experience here :P). I know I've gotten lucky with "blind Kaalia" in some of my videos, but these are definitely the exception, not the rule. When I "play her blind" I am expecting removal to follow up with something better - and if they happen to not have it, then sweet, my plan just got easier.
Against Prossh, learn his combos - Food Chain & the red God are the primary ones (and can be answered rather cleanly via Return to Dust). You know Jund is packing disruption, so don't ever play Kaalia onto a "blind" board - fire off a Mind Twist or windmill a Sire of Insanity, or just flat out pick his their hand apart with Thoughtseize effects. All you need is one attack to win (Master or Rakdos will do the trick, while Iona shuts off his combo [he can't play his commander] regardless of what you name).
- Thankfully, the Prossh builds I am facing is more into a token-based approach(never saw Food Chain combo). Basically drop Prossh then kill via Beastmaster Ascension, Coat of Arms or Shared Animosity
Aggro Prossh? That seems...weaker than the combo version. If CoA, SA, & BA are his win cons, he's just like slower Elfball right? Sounds like a cheap, instant sweeper is right up your alley. Fire Covenant is really good for that.
- Isn't Mind Twist banned in Duel Commander?
- I see you mentioned Thoughtseize here. So I guess it IS important.
- Unfortunately, I don't have Iona, Griselbrand or Avacyn. I am close to getting a good trade for Griselbrand or Avacyn but the only Iona available in our LGS is the one used by the Oloro Player.
Yes, it is. Consider Mind Shatter or Rakdos' Return then instead (I assume you're already playing Hymn to Tourach [and if you aren;t then shame on you] I hope). I prefer Shatter because it's random (really, the difference between Twist and Shatter is just B, it's just about as good). I'd assume you already have Ajani Vengeant and Liliana of the Veil? I'd consider them non-negotiable as far as disruption goes.
For DC threats, I don't much care about an Avacyn (too defensive for my tastes) but Griselbrand should absolutely be played. He's the best we've got and will win games on his back. Iona I wouldn't even call obligatory (versus certain decks she is soooo weak, although versus others she's a win). Sounds like you could benefit from online ordering instead of in the LGS.
A few pages back, there should be a post of mine geared for heavy disruption (and plays much fewer threats). Give that a whirl if you're still having trouble.
Is this helpful for you? If not let me know and we can try to go further in-depth. =)
Thanks for the advice. I have a suboptimal list so I am hesitant to post it here. But if you want to see it then, sure.
As you're already admitting it's suboptimal, I don't think you need to go through the extra work of posting the list (you've already addressed the problem). So now it's just a matter of pulling the subop cards and adding the power cards. =)
Thanks 3drinks! I have no more questions to ask since you addressed everything.
Alright! I hope your next Kaalia adventures end with you on the winning side! I'd love to hear about our commander becoming a top force in the DUel-Commander scene.
Increasing Ambition is alright, though compared to other options, I think Demonic Collusion is superior since I wouldn't suspect to get to eight to sorcery speed double tutour (I shouldn't need more than two unrestricted tutours, so Diabolic then Collusion, and Collusion is there again for one more cast if absolutely needed). Ambition just can't do that (because eight cmc).
I still haven't been able to start that event yet. For w/e reason, I am waiting on other champion players to submit. :/
Maybe you could add a section called "Upgrades for Those Who are Rolling In It," and put in all the expensive cards you would add if you had infinite money and what you would take out for them, just like with the budget section. That way, if someone wants to play the deck and has deep pockets, they can find out about cards like Ravages of War, Thundermaw Hellkite, Moat, Imperial Seal, etc., that you might play. Though they're not a huge part of the MTG population, I'm sure there are people out there who are willing to spend several hundred dollars on a card, and they'd be able to make their Kaalia deck that much better if they knew about those types of cards.
Maybe you could add a section called "Upgrades for Those Who are Rolling In It," and put in all the expensive cards you would add if you had infinite money and what you would take out for them, just like with the budget section. That way, if someone wants to play the deck and has deep pockets, they can find out about cards like Ravages of War, Thundermaw Hellkite, Moat, Imperial Seal, etc., that you might play. Though they're not a huge part of the MTG population, I'm sure there are people out there who are willing to spend several hundred dollars on a card, and they'd be able to make their Kaalia deck that much better if they knew about those types of cards.
Honestly...having played with those on MODO, I don't really care about having both Ravages and 'Geddon - I only need one of these effects to end a game on the spot. And Imp. Seal...honestly, sorcery speed top of library tutours are the suck - and I'd much rather play Grim Tutor before Seal. It's not even close. T-Maw 'Kite is already in the deck.
Moat is the exception. Honestly I don't ever expect to own a real one (have it on MODO) so it's one of those things I never bother thinking about.
Saw this card when I was looking for JOU spoilers tonight.
...I am not amused.
This is not a good dragon. EDH/Commander still has better dragon choices.
I don't think 3drinks needs to compile a deck list for players who have tons of money. Ravages of War, Moat, Imperial Seal, etc. are "good stuff" cards that I don't think are specific to any Commander deck. For veteran Commander players, those cards are almost a given if money was no object. And I would not put Thundermaw Hellkite in the same tier as those cards. The power level of Thundermaw Hellkite and the others is very wide.
Saw this card when I was looking for JOU spoilers tonight.
...I am not amused.
This is not a good dragon. EDH/Commander still has better dragon choices.
I don't think 3drinks needs to compile a deck list for players who have tons of money. Ravages of War, Moat, Imperial Seal, etc. are "good stuff" cards that I don't think are specific to any Commander deck. For veteran Commander players, those cards are almost a given if money was no object. And I would not put Thundermaw Hellkite in the same tier as those cards. The power level of Thundermaw Hellkite and the others is very wide.
I agree. T-Maw is good for sure, but he is not a Moat level of card.
Saw this card when I was looking for JOU spoilers tonight.
...I am not amused.
This is not a good dragon. EDH/Commander still has better dragon choices.
I don't think 3drinks needs to compile a deck list for players who have tons of money. Ravages of War, Moat, Imperial Seal, etc. are "good stuff" cards that I don't think are specific to any Commander deck. For veteran Commander players, those cards are almost a given if money was no object. And I would not put Thundermaw Hellkite in the same tier as those cards. The power level of Thundermaw Hellkite and the others is very wide.
I agree. T-Maw is good for sure, but he is not a Moat level of card.
The cards listed in the original quote fall into different categories. The main 2 are proactive vs reactive. In this type of deck, most if not all the cards are proactive. The only reactive cards are either for defense (Defense grid, boros charm, Aurelia's Fury) or tutor. These 3 cards I just listed have a rare chance to be dead cards - unlike Moat and perhaps other goodstuff cards.
Some tutors are not card advantage and set you back a card. Some are required, but too many can hurt (Imperial Seal)
Some tutors are not card advantage and set you back a card. Some are required, but too many can hurt (Imperial Seal)
Absolutely. Even when I still had Vampiric Tutor, I hated ripping that when I had Kaalia on board. If I'm in position to swing, I want to close out the game - not wait for a turn and hope I can maintain my position. Seal is just a worse V-Tutour. And, I would still put Grim Tutor above it in power level if it weren't for that ridiculous price tag lol.
Absolutely. Even when I still had Vampiric Tutor, I hated ripping that when I had Kaalia on board. If I'm in position to swing, I want to close out the game - not wait for a turn and hope I can maintain my position. Seal is just a worse V-Tutour. And, I would still put Grim Tutor above it in power level if it weren't for that ridiculous price tag lol.
I've gotten use out of Vampiric Tutor. Drawing it on its own is not helpful for the reason you stated. However, it costs 1 and is an instant, so it is a set-up card. As an instant, I almost never cast it on my turn. I always cast it at the end of the player's turn before my turn. Because it's only 1 mana, it's easy to leave that mana open. At the worst case, if I really need the tutored card, and I'm lucky enough to have Sensei's Divining Top around, I can draw the card I tutored to the top of my library.
Yes, I too would rather have Grim Tutor over Vampiric Tutor. But, I'm not taking out Vampiric Tutor just yet.
LOL Rhystic Tutour is soooo bad lmao. And Infernal is only good if hellbent (in this format).
When I said "when I still had vamp tutour" I meant before the deck got swiped. I still wouldnt cut Vamp if I had it again, though I do dislike it sometimes, even if it is a good card.
LOL Rhystic Tutour is soooo bad lmao. And Infernal is only good if hellbent (in this format).
Yeah, I agree that it's pretty bad. I just included it (and Gamble and Infernal Tutor) in the list, because it's a tutor. In Commander, usually an opponent has 2 mana to counter Rhystic Tutor's effect.
In a non-Commander game, my friend and opponent cast Gamble. Since we were friends, the random selection was me picking a card from his face-down, shuffled hand for discard. I ended up picking the card he tutored for.
Quote from 3drinks »
When I said "when I still had vamp tutour" I meant before the deck got swiped. I still wouldnt cut Vamp if I had it again, though I do dislike it sometimes, even if it is a good card.
Ah, sorry about that. I didn't realize you were referencing that awful incident that happened to you prior to you moving.
Your Deck got stolen? that's terrible, I'm sorry that such a thing has happened to you.
While that's truly unfortunate I still want to thank you for your primer, it's been very useful. I've had an unused Kaalia kicking around for a long time, but with some advice from this list she has become the head of my strongest 1v1 deck yet.
But if I may ask a question, I'm just wondering why you don't run Kuro, Pitlord in the main deck? I've seen him listed in your tribal variant, but he's been an all star in my main deck. Sure he's kind of a double edged sword, but by the time he comes out he almost always clears the board and puts me into a great position.
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Only that I can't afford him (he's recently spiked to $21 or so) and I am between jobs. Fantastic choice though, would replace Kokusho for sure.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
...And then every time you're giving your opponent a fresh hand as well. This problem is only further compounded in multiplayer (would you play a draw7 if it meant playing against a draw21? I wouldn't).
That said it might be hilariously effective in conjunction with Sire of Insanity - but Sire is insanely good on it's own - he needs no help from the Dragon Wizard to "get good".
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
It seems that my meta is very disadvantageous to Kaalia. Prossh has lots of disruption and removal. Marath basically just sits and waits for Kaalia to appear to ping her down. And all of the Wxx decks pack things like Prison Term, Darksteel Mutation and Arrest against my commander. Sygg is basically a wall of counters and removal
Any ideas how to approach this meta?
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
First of all...I'm trying to figure out why these forums just linked those cards above when I quoted your post. >_> But let's move past that haha.
Alright. So you've got UB permission, Jund disruption, and Naya aggro-("combo"?).
The first thing that comes to my mind, is how are you playing versus these decks? Are you just running Kaalia out there asap to win? Are you disrupting them more and then dropping the commander when it's (should be) safe? Are you in multiplayer or 1v1?
Now with those out of the way. Versus permission like Sygg, you need to bait the counters. Play Kaalia on t5 and see if they remove/counter it (if they don't, sweet, you probably just won) if they do, cool, you can play her again next turn - if she eats it here, you can hardcast most fatties anyway. If it's counters specifically, fetch Cavern of Souls asap - I like t1 Cavern < Mother of Runes which is frustratingly effective versus them. Other key cards in this matchup is Grand Abolisher (which coincidentally can also be cast off Cavern which always names Human for us) and Defense Grid.
It's worth noting, that heavy permission/board control decks are always going to be a hard match up for us. I don't really think there is a sound "go to" strat that works "100% of the time, every time". This is because while Kaalia looks like an aggro deck, we're really more of a combo deck.
Against Marath, you're the control deck, not the aggro deck. Do not try to aggro them because, no, it just isn't going to happen - they have a commander that can pick off ours at will, while not exactly stifling their own game plan but setting ours back a number of turns. We don't play that many sweepers for this, of course, but the sweepers we do play (when used strategically) and in conjunction with our plentiful spot removal, should be enough to wear them out. Once they're worn out, we can lay our commander and slither through the grass, like a Viper and ready to strike. (Yes, I had to make the Randy Orton reference there :P)
Against Prossh, learn his combos - Food Chain & the red God are the primary ones (and can be answered rather cleanly via Return to Dust). You know Jund is packing disruption, so don't ever play Kaalia onto a "blind" board - fire off a Mind Twist or windmill a Sire of Insanity, or just flat out pick his their hand apart with Thoughtseize effects. All you need is one attack to win (Master or Rakdos will do the trick, while Iona shuts off his combo [he can't play his commander] regardless of what you name).
A few pages back, there should be a post of mine geared for heavy disruption (and plays much fewer threats). Give that a whirl if you're still having trouble.
Is this helpful for you? If not let me know and we can try to go further in-depth. =)
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I am playing Kaalia in Duel Commander. She doesn't appeal to me in multiplayer
My Kaalia build is focused on just putting out Kaalia ASAP with heavy disruption backup.
- I run cards like Swiftfoot Boots, Fervor and Hammer of Purphoros
- I run a subpar disruption package(Distress, Coercien) in addition to the usual suspects(Duress, Mesmeric Fiend, Tidehollow Sculler, Castigate). I am tempted to shell out Inquistion of Kozilek and Thoughtseize but is deterred by the price. I would like to know if you think they are absolutely worth it.
- I am severely lacking in tutors. I ordered Steelshaper's gift but I still lack things like Stoneforge Mystic, Demonic Tutor and Enlightened Tutor. Same issue as above, money(NOTE: I am not from the US)
- To compensate for the lack of tutors, I upped my Kaalia targets from a meager 8-10 based on your list to a whopping 20 targets
Grand Abolisher usually just eats removal for me(I count removing him as a "discard"). I rarely get to use him as a Kalia protector. Defense Grid seem worth it though. That's why I ordered one already. If only there was a City of Solitude enchantment in Kaalia colors.....
I guess there is no easy fix for this.
Noted. I am doing it wrong then because I try to remove Marath everytime and just hope that my Kaalia lives when I lay it down.
I really missed out on Linvala. I sold mine before back on RoE and when I checked them now, they are very expensive. Would have been good in this matchup.
- Thankfully, the Prossh builds I am facing is more into a token-based approach(never saw Food Chain combo). Basically drop Prossh then kill via Beastmaster Ascension, Coat of Arms or Shared Animosity
- Isn't Mind Twist banned in Duel Commander?
- I see you mentioned Thoughtseize here. So I guess it IS important.
- Unfortunately, I don't have Iona, Griselbrand or Avacyn. I am close to getting a good trade for Griselbrand or Avacyn but the only Iona available in our LGS is the one used by the Oloro Player.
Thanks for the advice. I have a suboptimal list so I am hesitant to post it here. But if you want to see it then, sure.
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
Gotcha. Always nice to verify what format you're playing as the deck has a very different approach depending. In DC, fewer targets is obligatory while playing more disruption.
Yes. T-Seize and IoK are absolutely worth it. 80% of the time, they are the best cards in your deck. Other disruptions I have loved are Sinkhole, Vindicate, Red Elemental Blast, and Pyroblast (they never see the latter two coming).
Upping Kaalia targets to compensate for lack of tutours doesn't work - those critters are just one purpose, while the tutours are finding anything you need. For you, Demonic, & Enlightened should be paramount and a third tutour would do very, very well - I like Grim Tutor here (but holy $300 card) so Gamble may or may not be an acceptable replacement. I play two equipments only (Greaves and SoLaS). The former is a cheap haste outlet, protection, and curves nicely into Kaalia while the latter is a Lock outlet (Yosei + PhyTower)
If Abolisher eats removal, it's doing it's job (it's a very powerful card) - then we're making them spend their removal on our Bear Cub and not on the "Star of the Show". If it sticks, you're gonna win.
Nope, unfortunately not. That's just how the game is played at it's corre.
Well to be fair, Linvala is very much a meta card (sometimes she's just a silly four mana 3/4). However versus any meta you suspect mana dorks (Ezuri, Marath, some Prossh lists) I'd make the call to play her. And hey, removing Marath isn't a bad play in a vacuum (it creates card disadvantage though) but it can buy time if you need it. Obviously I'd mention Hallowed Burial here but y'all don't play with tuck rules over there (replace this with Damnation or, Toxic Deluge. The other one (as I mention further down) is Fire Covenant.
Oh, and never ever assume "Well maybe she is safe..." because every time you say that, she never is. (speaking from experience here :P). I know I've gotten lucky with "blind Kaalia" in some of my videos, but these are definitely the exception, not the rule. When I "play her blind" I am expecting removal to follow up with something better - and if they happen to not have it, then sweet, my plan just got easier.
Aggro Prossh? That seems...weaker than the combo version. If CoA, SA, & BA are his win cons, he's just like slower Elfball right? Sounds like a cheap, instant sweeper is right up your alley. Fire Covenant is really good for that.
Yes, it is. Consider Mind Shatter or Rakdos' Return then instead (I assume you're already playing Hymn to Tourach [and if you aren;t then shame on you] I hope). I prefer Shatter because it's random (really, the difference between Twist and Shatter is just B, it's just about as good). I'd assume you already have Ajani Vengeant and Liliana of the Veil? I'd consider them non-negotiable as far as disruption goes.
For DC threats, I don't much care about an Avacyn (too defensive for my tastes) but Griselbrand should absolutely be played. He's the best we've got and will win games on his back. Iona I wouldn't even call obligatory (versus certain decks she is soooo weak, although versus others she's a win). Sounds like you could benefit from online ordering instead of in the LGS.
As you're already admitting it's suboptimal, I don't think you need to go through the extra work of posting the list (you've already addressed the problem). So now it's just a matter of pulling the subop cards and adding the power cards. =)
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
Alright! I hope your next Kaalia adventures end with you on the winning side! I'd love to hear about our commander becoming a top force in the DUel-Commander scene.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Been living in a cave again, so hello!
For tutors, have you looked at Increasing Ambition
and Diabolic Tutor? (oops, missed Diabolic Tutor in the list)too high of a curve. Don't want to overburden on tutors.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
I still haven't been able to start that event yet. For w/e reason, I am waiting on other champion players to submit. :/
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Saw this card when I was looking for JOU spoilers tonight.
...I am not amused.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Honestly...having played with those on MODO, I don't really care about having both Ravages and 'Geddon - I only need one of these effects to end a game on the spot. And Imp. Seal...honestly, sorcery speed top of library tutours are the suck - and I'd much rather play Grim Tutor before Seal. It's not even close. T-Maw 'Kite is already in the deck.
Moat is the exception. Honestly I don't ever expect to own a real one (have it on MODO) so it's one of those things I never bother thinking about.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
This is not a good dragon. EDH/Commander still has better dragon choices.
I don't think 3drinks needs to compile a deck list for players who have tons of money. Ravages of War, Moat, Imperial Seal, etc. are "good stuff" cards that I don't think are specific to any Commander deck. For veteran Commander players, those cards are almost a given if money was no object. And I would not put Thundermaw Hellkite in the same tier as those cards. The power level of Thundermaw Hellkite and the others is very wide.
I agree. T-Maw is good for sure, but he is not a Moat level of card.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
The cards listed in the original quote fall into different categories. The main 2 are proactive vs reactive. In this type of deck, most if not all the cards are proactive. The only reactive cards are either for defense (Defense grid, boros charm, Aurelia's Fury) or tutor. These 3 cards I just listed have a rare chance to be dead cards - unlike Moat and perhaps other goodstuff cards.
Some tutors are not card advantage and set you back a card. Some are required, but too many can hurt (Imperial Seal)
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Absolutely. Even when I still had Vampiric Tutor, I hated ripping that when I had Kaalia on board. If I'm in position to swing, I want to close out the game - not wait for a turn and hope I can maintain my position. Seal is just a worse V-Tutour. And, I would still put Grim Tutor above it in power level if it weren't for that ridiculous price tag lol.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I've gotten use out of Vampiric Tutor. Drawing it on its own is not helpful for the reason you stated. However, it costs 1 and is an instant, so it is a set-up card. As an instant, I almost never cast it on my turn. I always cast it at the end of the player's turn before my turn. Because it's only 1 mana, it's easy to leave that mana open. At the worst case, if I really need the tutored card, and I'm lucky enough to have Sensei's Divining Top around, I can draw the card I tutored to the top of my library.
Yes, I too would rather have Grim Tutor over Vampiric Tutor. But, I'm not taking out Vampiric Tutor just yet.
With only so many tutors available, I can see why some players just want all the tutors, regardless of how useful they are during a game. I'm sure some Commander deck somewhere has all these tutors...
Demonic Tutor
Grim Tutor
Diabolic Tutor
Demonic Collusion
Vampiric Tutor
Diabolic Revelation
Increasing Ambition
Imperial Seal
Infernal Tutor
Rhystic Tutor
Gamble
When I said "when I still had vamp tutour" I meant before the deck got swiped. I still wouldnt cut Vamp if I had it again, though I do dislike it sometimes, even if it is a good card.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Yeah, I agree that it's pretty bad. I just included it (and Gamble and Infernal Tutor) in the list, because it's a tutor. In Commander, usually an opponent has 2 mana to counter Rhystic Tutor's effect.
In a non-Commander game, my friend and opponent cast Gamble. Since we were friends, the random selection was me picking a card from his face-down, shuffled hand for discard. I ended up picking the card he tutored for.
Ah, sorry about that. I didn't realize you were referencing that awful incident that happened to you prior to you moving.
Woah. A functional reprint of City of Brass. And it doesn't get hosed by a Rish. Port or Icy Manipulator effect. Totally makes the cut.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
While that's truly unfortunate I still want to thank you for your primer, it's been very useful. I've had an unused Kaalia kicking around for a long time, but with some advice from this list she has become the head of my strongest 1v1 deck yet.
But if I may ask a question, I'm just wondering why you don't run Kuro, Pitlord in the main deck? I've seen him listed in your tribal variant, but he's been an all star in my main deck. Sure he's kind of a double edged sword, but by the time he comes out he almost always clears the board and puts me into a great position.