MTG Salvation

Actually, he's not ban as a commander and as an arsenal in French

Isn't this the banned list? :http://duelcommander.com/rules/

If so, he's not banned at all, even as a general.

Imperial Animar uses the French rules set:
http://duelcommander.com/rules/

Emrakul is not included because it doesn't fit the deck, and adds no utility. You don't need an extra turn, and you don't even need haste - the deck blows up the world, and makes infinitely large creatures when you're in a pinch. It's a win-more card that is consistently detrimental, and is unrealistic as an alternate win condition.

When you start thinking about the combo in terms of phases, it becomes clear that when you're dealing w/ a long stack combo, the difference between 10 counters and infinite is really actually pretty small, just because at that point you're creating a self-sustaining combo, that can basically pick up the deck.

I played against this deck with my Krenko deck on cockatrice and I think the deck is awesome and probably one of the most resilient combo edh decks there is. Congrats on the primer

So, I've been playing this deck without reading the primer * trying to figure out combos on my own* It's a blast. I feel like switching it to run pod would be better, but I'm not the one constantly testing the list.

Jester, how do you feel about edric in the deck? Everyone tells me to put him in, but isn't edric more for a none combo list?

r3d d09, glad you like the deck! I'd recommend first on focusing on learning how to perform an infinite ulamog combo by T4 before really even attempting to switch things up. Part of the problem that I see a lot here is that people will start doing heavy modifications before even truly understanding what the combo is, and without that baseline knowledge it's very easy to make detrimental changes that ultimately prevent you from ever executing any of the more intricate combos.

Edric is really hard to capitalize on, and pales in comparison to the other card advantage outlets already in place. The deck's really just not focused on attacking at all, and you're usually not going to have many attackers unless you do a half combo. It just doesn't fit with the tempo. Also, things like Chord of Calling, Earthcraft, Shared Discovery, Gaea's Cradle etc already benefit from holding back.

Jester, I understand the concept of looping, went off today with just 2 lands on t4 and vindicated his whole board. But I'm talking about the times where you don't draw what you need. etc.

Also, what's your opinion on the pod version that's been going around lately? Has your view changed from the last time someone asked you?

Well, the deck's designed to work systematically, so you're really not contingent on some small subset of cards in the same way that a typical combo deck is. The consistency is there and then some, but to truly take advantage of the deck you need to emphasize routes with higher card / board advantage. Trinket Mage and Primeval Titan make the deck, solely because they are readily available, and give you the resources to combo off of anything.

How have you been able to go about the vindicate loop? Can you do it without the aid of Curio/Earthcraft/Survival?

Pod sucks: there's no real pod package in place, it's not tutorable, it's a complete tempo loss, and the benefits are really somewhat meager. It really doesn't fit with the goal of creating a self-sustaining systematic combo.

After playing today, even in situations where I would have won if I had pod out. I'm not going to put it in. Being still semi new to the deck, I was naive to how it could have functioned.

I'm using a list from about 6 months ago; definitely need to be updated.

Plan is to promo foil out the deck as much as possible. Nothing like killing someone on turn 3/4 with an ugly deck

Quote from deedeehey

Hi,

I've been a new Animar "jester's combo" deck player, and let's face it, the deck is awesome!

In my local meta (paris, fr) I do have to play vs heavy control decks all the time... My match up are about 50% on large scale, but Im sure it can be way better...

What are you advices vs deck like Ruhan / GAA / ..?

I know rushing out Animar turn 2 is less necessary, but I always feel after turn 5, they do control easily(?)

Also here are cards I shifted for my own convenience vs the meta where I'm playing. Any thoughts?

1 Forest .... 1 Cavern Of Soul (for animar vs control / elf vs better match up / eldrazi for late land drop).

Wirewood Herald.... Painter Servant (2nd Spellskite / allowed Animar to be unblockable vs non B/W deck).

Shared Discovery.... Peek (Better in many ways, can look up opponents's hands before combo out, draw anyways... great with Shardless Agent).

With a good enough hand, you shouldn't have a problem going off prior to turn 5. Rushing out Animar turn 2 is still a great plan.

I don't think Wirewood Herald is really a standard in this deck, he's not that easy to kill off.

Gitaxian Probe is strictly better than Peek.

Glad you like the deck mate! It's really a lot of fun, and the deck allows you to be just so damn creative with the combo's that it never gets old. It's almost impossible to even describe because it's so dynamic.

I'd actually drop Copperline Gorge over a Forest if you really want to use Cavern of Souls. Maintaining a high basic land count is a huge asset to say the least.

Painter's Servant has been previously discussed pretty in depth earlier. Making Animar unblockable is irrelevant, Servant's strictly worse than Spellskite for a number of reasons: Spellskite's harder to kill, protects your other creatures, interferes with opponent effects - pump, untaps, Arcum Dagson - etc. There's really not room for both, and there's certainly no need for making Animar unblockable.

Everything's great with Shardless Agent. That card is legitimately amazing in here.

I can't really say that I like Peek here - Probe's just amazing because it's free, but wasting a turn for a peek's kind of suboptimal. Shared Discovery's an Ancestral Recall in here, with or without the combo. I wouldn't really consider that a good swap. You can always opt to leave animar on the sidelines and force your opponent to play inefficiently. You're really only at a disadvantage when you give your opponent a tempo time walk.

Wirewood Herald is pretty good - Skullclamp's basically your goto, and the card advantage from Herald is substancial. In a typical situation, you're killing off Metamorph (cloned imperial recruiter), tutoring up Empath into Artisan and returning Metamorph into Peregrine Drake for a solid reset and +4 cards. +8 if you tutor Kozilek after. When you're low resources - mana, creatures to clamp, cards in hand etc, it's just as good as Imperial Recruiter and it's all green mana.

Hey Jester, diggin the deck. I was curious though, what would be a suitable replacement for prime time? I understand that he's a fairly integral piece; enabling you to tutor up cradle and eye of ugin should seal the game the following turn (very sad that I won't be able to do this). Would removing prime time also require the removal of any other cards (i.e. eye of ugin and others)? Also I'm noticing the lack of Wasteland in the list. Given that we run a fair number of early mana sources, wouldn't it be worth it to punish opponents as early as possible without harming ourselves?

Quote from Iceman530

Hey Jester, diggin the deck. I was curious though, what would be a suitable replacement for prime time? I understand that he's a fairly integral piece; enabling you to tutor up cradle and eye of ugin should seal the game the following turn (very sad that I won't be able to do this). Would removing prime time also require the removal of any other cards (i.e. eye of ugin and others)? Also I'm noticing the lack of Wasteland in the list. Given that we run a fair number of early mana sources, wouldn't it be worth it to punish opponents as early as possible without harming ourselves?

In the past, Keeper of Progenitus has been mentioned as a Prime Time replacement. Not really ideal :/

Just because we can't grab Eye at the same time as Cradle in one fell swoop doesn't mean it isn't one of the best enabler cards in the deck. It still does nasty, combo-y things. No other card needs to be removed; that's the beauty of this list, the combo is so free-flow that there are no two or three cards that are just awful without each other.

Wasteland would be terrible. Ideally we're going off before they can do much of anything and we're better off setting them back lands by comboing and hitting them with Ulamog than destroying one of our own valuable lands to do it. We don't run a ton of 1 CMC mana dorks because we can go sacrificing lands all over the place. It would harm us a LOT. A single mana in this deck is worth more than any other deck.

Thanks, glad you like it.

There really isn't substitute for Primeval Titan no. The closest functional substitute is Deadeye Navigator. If possible, just use the French rules set. If you're playgroup does 1v1, they should be using French, otherwise, Animar's not really a very friendly multiplayer deck. Cradle/Eye are still good without Prime Time.

Wasteland is useless. It hurts us more than them, and colorless mana is effectively worthless.

... And think and bluff your way against blue's finest counters... Or spot removal. I've seen Jester got the kill even if he has no hand. Which really is something to watch.

Interesting, I'm not sure that the upkeep ability is really relevant, but it would definitely be interesting to have another Empath Target. In any regards, the only way this would considered is if there were drastic changes on the ban list.

For the time being though, I'm going to wait until the next banlist announcement & Dragon Maze release before speculating and making changes.

Have any of you guys tried out Llanowar Empath?

Any thoughts on protean hulk being unbanned? Making him instawin on death is the easy part, killing him is the hard part obviously.

And this question is to the french community, not directly to jester, so please, input appreciated from anyone.

Well, you can just Ulamog it. Anyway, Hulk's all great and dandy, and certainly would just win if it ever triggered, but it doesn't actually really contribute anything to the deck aside from being a distraction. Ultimately Hulk doesn't make sense in here even if he were readily sacrifice-able, just because of the opportunity cost.

@7CMC versus 6, it's significantly harder to get Hulk into play compared to Primeval Titan, and the fact that it requires an additional tutor for a kill effect, presumably Rusalka, makes it have an equal card investment as Primeval/Peregrine, while costing ~3 more.

Thats pretty much what I was thinking. Imperial Recruiter wins on resolution for the most part so I cant see myself ever tutoring for the hulk over recruiter, although I could see him being a house in lists that cant afford the recruiter. Obviously a two card combo (hulk+sac outlet) isnt quite as potent but its certainly better than the alternatives.

So I finally traded for an Imperial Recruiter and I must say playing the deck has really reinvigorated my love for the game. My meta is more multi-player so I've had to adapt it, but it is really challenging and rewarding the more you play it.

Glad you like the deck! I think what's so interesting about the deck is that it's in a lot of ways the ultimate losing is optional deck. So much of it circles around every decision that you make that you're focused to strategize on a much higher level. There's a sort of uniqueness as well to every combo that sets it apart.

Probably the most interesting aspect of the deck is the game dynamics it creates. The fact that you can just flip a switch and win forces the opponent to play inefficiently, which creates it's own virtual card advantage. Few other decks can engage in that kind of psychological warfare. If both players are actively aware of this, it fundamentally changes how the game is played and adds a whole new level of intensity. That right there is both the most challenging and most rewarding aspect of the deck, at least in my opinion.

I myself am getting extremely close to getting the entire deck built IRL (just need Polluted Delta, Tropical Island, Volcanic Island, and Sylvan Tutor) and I've been impressed with it so far. It's helping me to learn to play the deck by thinking of it in gear shifts like with cars, but that's just me.

Jester, I saw you were in the Cockatrice tournament, how did those games go? Would you change if anything? Do you think the matchups were bad?

Eh, I don't think I would change anything, aside from Gorge to Grove fo the Burnwillows, which was an unrelated change.

It was just a lot of crummy luck really. On one game, I had the god 1-lander hand, and was able to do both brainstorm and shared discovery, with other draw effects on top of that. I basically had 14 draws to get a land, or any 1 CMC creature to pull off the win T4, and managed to not get anything. There were ~55 different cards that I could've drawn at any point in those 14 to win, so it was like wtf status.

On the other match, there was a decent 6 impasse while my opponent had a Standstill in play in which I had more or less the same scenario, and needed really any way to have balanced the math to have won. There were a solid ~35 cards that would have won there, if not more. It was just a really strange scenario.

I usually have a pretty obscene win rate against Rafiq, so it was really disheartening. Oh well, **** happens.

Quote from The Joker

Now that protean hulk is unbanned in french, do you think you'd maybe run it? Get perigrin drake + faeri impostor?

There's already been discussion on this. The basic idea is probably not worth running since we'd need to add a good way to sacrifice it and a way to get that sacrificer (I'd probably go with Starved Rusalka personally because you can get it with GSZ, but it serves basically no other purpose). If you can't afford a Recruiter it's not a bad option, otherwise don't bother.