What do you all think about Banisher Priest as a second Fiend Hunter? This seems good, since it can remove important threats and can carry swords.
How about Theros cards
Aqueous Form? Unblockable, Scry 1 every turn seems to amount for protection for Geist while keeping pressure on and filtering topdecks pretty efficiently. Normally I don't like Auras, but with hexproof Geist with counter cover this might be worth considering.
Stymied Hopes: Sort of almost Force spike. Sort of almost Miscalculation, but with a small amount of topdeck filtering stapled to it. My feeling is not effective enough, but that it has its merits.
RD1: played an ashling mono-red land destruction deck, and was able to pull off wins off SOFI, and counterspells to negate any of his relevant spells/threats.
Win 2-0 (1-0)
RD2: went against mono-blue this time with Talrand. Won game 1 on the draw off a weathered wayfarer getting a cavern of souls for me to cast GoST against his counterwall, he had an isochron scepter with Counterspell imprinted. Game 2, he had a telepathy turn 1, but I was able to resolve grand abolisher turn 4 as he was stuck on 3 lands, and I won the counter war, the proceeded with GoST beats.
Win 2-0 (2-0)
RD3: against GAAiV, won game 1 with spell snare for his talisman, to slow him down, and resoved GoST on turn 3 to win with an aggro plan. Game 2 took longer as he was more careful, but he missed his SFM trigger and did not search for any equipment, after we traded counterspells after he cast SFM. I also forgot about the search after he resolved it as he just said "done". And when I proceeded to draw, he wanted to still search but I told him he already missed the trigger, as the wording was "you may..." for SFM. It turned out he had a SOFAF in his hand the whole time, so he might have thought he already searched already. I got pummeled but was able to survive this grindy game as time was called and I ended at 3 life. If he was able to search for a SOFI and equip it, it would have been his win, and a game 3 would have ensued.
Win 1-0 (3-0)
RD4: Intentional Draw with GoST.
RD5: ID with MW to ensure a playoff spot.
I played Sigarda in the Quarterfinals and Game 1 went like this:
Sigarda on the play leading with T1 forest into GSZ getting dryad arbor.
I played a fetchland getting tundra on his EOT.
Turn 2: Sigarda, cast SOFI. (I took a big gulp, and my mind kept saying Oh no I don't have any counterspells). I just played an Island on my turn.
Turn 3: he equips dryad arbor with the sword and attacks after playing a land, I bounce SOFI with an unkicked Into the Roil, taking 1 damage only from the dryad. My turn I play another land and decide to slow play as I can't counter his SOFI if he recasts it, since I was only holding a remove soul as a counterspell.
Turn 4: recasts SOFI (T_T'). I play grand abolisher to block his dryad arbor with mana up for remove soul in case he casts Sigarda which I won't be able to answer.
Turn 5: he equips dryad again and I block with abolisher. He proceeds on casting a Hokori and I gladly use my remove soul even if I was reserving it for his general. On my turn, I played detention sphere on SOFI, play a land and pass the turn.
Fast forward a bit, and by now he was able to cast Sigarda, I was able to cast GoST, Thassa (still an enchantment), and a SFM to get SOFAF(equipped to GoST). He was also able to cast SOFAF, but since he was ahead in life points he already put me down to 8 life with Sigarda holding a SOFAF.
He decided to attack me again with Sigarda holding the SOFAF, and he took me down to 1 life (14 Commander Damage now), while he was still at 23 life, and I had GoST on SOFAF, Thassa Enchantment, and SFM.
I had a chance with my next draw as I can still see 2 cards maximum with Thassa's scry on the upkeep, and I luckily drew an aven mindcensor!
I cast it, attacked with GoST and the Angel token, putting him down to 15 life. Untapped my lands and put the SOFAF on the mindcensor to block sigarda. SFM could block his dryad arbor.
On his next turn he was forced to cast Wrath of God, as he would die next turn with my unblockable army.
I had the advantage with Thassa scrying before the draw step, and was able to dust bowl at least 2 of his lands to ensure sigarda wasn't coming back (Dryad arbor also died to the ***). I was able to recast GoST, and rode him to victory as I had enough counter back up now to handle any threats he was casting.
It was a very exciting and tense game as It could have gone his way had he killed the bird before I equipped or if he was able to destroy my SOFAF too.
Game 2 was faster as I had the spell pierce for his turn 2 GSZ for Zero (into Dryad Arbor), and he got stuck on 3 lands as I wasted one of his non-basic lands. GoST went all the way, and he conceded the game graciously after offering a handshake of respect. He was a fun guy to play and his deck was solid too, with just a mana-screw problem that cost him on the 2nd game.
Quite a while ago. It's four mana for a 2/2 that doesn't do anything versus removal. In fact, it'll put you behind more if the opponent has instant speed removal - stole a zur? Nope. Now it's attacking and you're tapped out.
Hmm, with the metagame of duel commander/french edh shifting due to the 2013 commander products. We have all seen a "large" number of derevi, marath, oloro, prossh players on cockatrice.
Generally speaking, how are we going to adapt Geist to this new meta.
What is the strategy/game plan against green creature decks that block geist all day?
Hmm, with the metagame of duel commander/french edh shifting due to the 2013 commander products. We have all seen a "large" number of derevi, marath, oloro, prossh players on cockatrice.
Generally speaking, how are we going to adapt Geist to this new meta.
What is the strategy/game plan against green creature decks that block geist all day?
I'm going to be doing things a bit differently. I haven't had much of a chance to play since the new generals came out, but if this creature-heavy midrangey type thing continues, the current version won't do.
Pierre's build is closer to the mark. Parallax Wave is better and better. Trickbind (which was already on the list for possibilities) is now stronger than ever with all the triggers and activated abilities we want to stop.
1cc card selection will still retain their importance, but I'm not sure if I like portent. it's a thing with Unexpectedly Absent, though.
This is something I had already been experimenting with, and like a lot. Elspeth is great against a different meta. Versus swarms of creatures, wraths are the way to go.
The evolving meta should be fun for Geist.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I'm going to be doing things a bit differently. I haven't had much of a chance to play since the new generals came out, but if this creature-heavy midrangey type thing continues, the current version won't do.
Pierre's build is closer to the mark. Parallax Wave is better and better. Trickbind (which was already on the list for possibilities) is now stronger than ever with all the triggers and activated abilities we want to stop.
1cc card selection will still retain their importance, but I'm not sure if I like portent. it's a thing with Unexpectedly Absent, though.
This is something I had already been experimenting with, and like a lot. Elspeth is great against a different meta. Versus swarms of creatures, wraths are the way to go.
The evolving meta should be fun for Geist.
Even with Pierre's list, we saw that he got crushed in the finals vs derevi (a very small sample size of only 2 games). Green creature decks are traditionally a very bad matchup for geist.
I want to talk mostly about the STRATEGY that we as geist players should be using when facing down green decks with lots of creatures.
If we establish a successful strategy, I feel that it would be much easier to modify the deck to fit the new meta.
I feel that we need some sort of early game control plan to keep a huge mass of important creatures off the board with spot removal and counters. Then if things get out of hand we should have 2-3 copies of wrath effects. Then entering into the later game, we cast geist with equipment and race to the finish.
Another thing on a side note. The more and more I play I feel that the tutors, E. tutor and M.tutor are bad. They seem very slow in the experience. if you draw them this turn, you have to wait till next turn to use them and i really dislike the card disadvantage, especially if they counter the spell you searched for.
I've been winning quite consistently with my Geist build which is very similar to Gaka's cantrip geist only with more bounce in it.
I was thinking about putting a Lyev-skynight in it as well since it's the same body of a Vendillion, often times all we need to beat down someone's life total, and it also detains a permanent.
Shame my local scene had Geist banned, I was having a lt of fun with it. Maybe it's for the best with all the Oloros that have been popping up lately
I've been playing Geist for more than a year and contributed a bit on this thread after the French Cup of last year.
I made most of the time top8s in middle-sized tournaments (around 40 players) and top16 in the bigger events.
I think I can answer you quite well.
I played mostly agro/ tempo decklists with around 25 creatures, moxen and such in order to win by being in the right tempo.
The deck was at its best with the new legend rule this summer and before the release of the commander products.
Now I will be honest, the deck is dead as a top Tiers. It's better than average but I would start calling it a random deck or a pet deck in the current metagame. Derevi and Marath are very hard match ups. Prossh and Oloro are not so good too.
In the current metagame Geist is bad. This metagame is made of many green decks and make it hard for Geist to go through : Prossh slows Geist a lot, Marath, Doran and Derevi can block all day and have better creatures, Zur and mono black got a new wrath, Wanderer lists are very fast, Karador is not a great match up... and that's the best decks in the metagame !
Good luck !!!
But, as Geist is my favorite general I tried to make him work.
I playtested a lot against the different generals that I expected to be good in the metagame before the release of the commander packs and have found some ways to make the deck work.
I twisted it a lot.
The goal is not anymore to be quick only (moxen) but also more to get through long enough before going out of resource.
This is where it becomes tricky. You have to go fast against ramp and keep going through against the decks with creatures or reccursive blockers.
I decided to increase the number of evading cards to have enough density of cards for going through : I added cards like maze of ith, knight of glory, aqueous form + other unblockable auras + feeling of dread, cryptic command and only utility creatures that helped Geist going through (no more beaters only but only nemesis)...
I decreased the curve a lot. It's crucial against Doran, Marath and Derevi. You have to be the agro !! (or play another kind of Geist : a reactive version with wraths). Auras help a lot in this match up and if you have several ways of going through (swords etc.), the opponent will not be able to destroy them all.
Geist agro versions have now a big problem, it's Marath. If you play many creatures you have to be very quick because they will not stand long with their little toughness.
One very crucial point. The metagame is ramp and voltron (Zur, Derevi, Marath, Prossh, Wanderer...). Yes in all versions, they want to replay their overpowered generals ! There is one solution, mana denial.
Play cataclysm, ravages, armageddon or parallax tide + enlightened tutor and stifle, boomerangs.... Build around these kind of cards. It's often the only viable plan to win a match up easily. Also, very important, disenchants ! That's mana denial too.
One very last point that is the problem when you run a more voltron Geist is the lack of threats. You can't waste your threat slots into edicts and counterspells because you will have no pressure on the board and let your opponent develop and win. It's a very big problem, partly because of the number of auras. But in the meantime, if you play too many creatures Marath will kill them for free. Here you have to make a choice, Marath and decks with creatures vs ramp control, control (GAA/Zur) and draw GO (clique, Wydwen, Nin, Derevi but rare match ups, very bad though.)
To sum up, best Geist versions IMO should be able to mana denial (1) and run more way of being evasive (2). Then you have different directions to take and depending of that you'll be able to chose where you have your bad match ups and where it's 50/50.
One last point is that the deck is quite weak now. Any misstake is very very costly. You don't have the power of Derevi or Zur to come back...
So build well, play well and be lucky and you may win !
One last point, in the BOM, the new generals were very new and there were not so much played in the room. In the French Cup there were 7 Geist for 124 players and none of them were in the Top32 (despite good pilotes that do a lot of top8s).
Lastly I played the deck in BOM days :
I was 18th over 122 the first day with 5-2 (won Lyzolda, Doran, Derevii, Prossh, GAA4 and lost Griselbrand and Doran).
The second day I made 0-3, losing my first three rounds against good players and then made 4-3 (35th over 107). The deck worked very badly. I lost against Zur voltron, Wanderer and Ezuri but got a bye and won against Ruric Thar, Rafiq and Ruhan).
Hope that helps
I put quite a lot of energy and thinking for making the deck viable, but I think it's not possible in the current metagame. It's a pet deck that can go through but it's really hard.
Anthares
Hi Anthares, I agree with a lot of things you mentioned in your post.
I left the creature heavy (more aggressive) version of geist playing 17-25 creatures and moxen for a long time. I was never a fan of this "aggro" style.
I have been playing a list similar to Pierre's for the last half year. 9 creatures and more control cards such as counters, bounce, removal, land destruction effects.
Using a list very similar to Pierres, I felt myself losing a lot to the new green decks of the format, namely, derevi and marath.
I am testing a new strategy on cockatrice now where I play a reactive control role. Ive added better control cards against aggro such as 1) more wraths, 2) Gideon (beast against creature heavy decks) 3) batterskull.
You mentioned that mana denial is very strong against ramp based decks. However, I found that a lot of ramp based decks play a lot of mana artifacts so if you were to play something like armagddeon, it would hurt you a lot more then hurt them and they can recover much more easily due to mana artifacts. In addition, cards such as Armageddon and ravages of war are only really good when you are ahead on board which in my experience is usually not the case vs green decks. The only mana denial im playing atm is cataclysm as it sort or "resets the board".
Right now the strategy that I'm testing is trying to keep their key creatures off the field and preserve my life total and not be "swarmed". Using counters, spot removal, bounce to buy myself time and save my life total. If they over commit, I will hopefully be able to wrath the board. All of this is to buy time until I can draw an equipment so that geist can swing through and race to the finish. Having said this, I am also playing 6 card filter, ponder, preordain type effects in hopes that in some matchups I can filter away the wraths for example against MW who is ramping and has no creatures. I feel playing a high number of 1 CMC filter spells will allow me to draw the cards I need in different matchups and filter the ones I don't want away.
I am still using equipment + geist as my win con. or planeswalkers (gideon, elspeth, JTMS). However instead of trying to cast geist very early and end the game. I am playing the reactive role, trying to control the game to a situation where casting out geist + equipment can win me the race.
This is the current strategy I am using.
Side Note: I'm currently playing 38 lands and no mana artifacts. With the addition of more wraths, gideons, batterskulls, my curve has increased a little. I feel like I want to go to 39 lands.
I have played against Doran and other green deck like Jenara on a regular basis. No doubt, these are tough match up for us. As some of you have already pointed out, our key cards against them are sweepers and sword.
Cards I also run which are good against green base creatures deck are
Wash Out. It is often an one side wrath. Should take Cataclysm slot imho .
At least it is not a dead card when you are behind, which is usually the case against green deck.
Submerge. The tempo this card generates against green deck is insane. If your metagame is full of green deck. Maindeck it!
Another card I run is Parallax Tide, it is good slowing down the ramp decks. I am not sure if I should also run Enlightened Tutor along with it. I really dislike the card advantage. I can't decide if I should run Enlightened Tutor or Impulse. I wish there is another nice 1cc cantrip.
I play GAAIV and is feeling the same. those derevis are just... hard to beat and we need to be reactive more than aggressive based on our color.
you think mana rocks is bad against derevi's?
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A team should be as happy as a meal - TEAM HAPPYMEAL
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tronGR
Buy All the planeswalkers!!!
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
I wouldn't say that mana rocks are "bad" vs derei, by playing most mana rocks you either lose cards (moxs) or tempo (u spend a part of your turn playing them in main phase). I guess tempo isn't an issue for GAA as you are usually a late game control deck that just tries to survive till the late game to turn on your big spells. But this is a geist thread, I would rather not discuss about GAA here.
I agree that in order to beat green creature decks we have to play more of the reactive control role and answer their threats. Spot remove if they dont commit too much on the board. Wrath if they do. And when we have a good equipment to race, then we cast race and try to race.
This strategy is working pretty well for me at the moment. The matchup definitely isn't good and its still not easy, but it seems much much better then the traditional "heavier tempo" lists that are played. (refer to pierre's list which he got 2nd place at BOM with).
I am currently playing 3 wraths in my main board (my meta is recently a bit heavy on derevi/marath, people testing out new commanders). I'm also playing gideon as a card that could bash in for 6 and is very very good against creature based decks.
I'm still unsure about whether batterskull is good enough (i cut it for now). Since theres only 1 stoneforge, most of the time you are just casting batterskull for 5 mana. Doesn't seem like it is that good if you have to hard cast for 5 mana.
Just started playing Geist of Saint Traft and I have a question. Armageddon is a great finisher but has anybody played with Sunder either alone or with Armageddon? How'd it work it? Is it overkill?
Just started playing Geist of Saint Traft and I have a question. Armageddon is a great finisher but has anybody played with Sunder either alone or with Armageddon? How'd it work it? Is it overkill?
The biggest problem with Sunder is that it costs five mana - even if it's an instant. Getting to that stage and being able to realistically protect it from opposing countermagic is difficult.
Stick with the four mana wipes.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
What are your thoughts on Brimaz, King of Oreskos and of course, Spirit of the Labyrinth? I can see this one doing some heavy work vs control decks (Griselbrand, Oloro). The spirit is more fragile than a regular creature (aim at something else Disenchant), but don't you just love her hose ability ?
She also works well with Tallowisp.
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Legacy URGBOops all my spellsBGRU URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~ BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW UTalrand PolymorphishU UAzami, Lady of CAU BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
me and some friends did some testing vs doran cuz its starting to show a lot here in my area. and that match up is so bad for geist. they get a lot of stuff under the counters cuz of discard and that big tree puts a looot of pressure. i think GAAIV is a better positioned blue deck in the new metagame.
Anyone try yet? She'll never be a creature but shes cheap and makes Geist unblockable.
I've been playing for as long as I've played Geist of St. Traft I've never been disappointed. It's rarely a creature but the scry and the ability to make Geist of St. Traft unblockable is invaluable.
If you are just using for the scry + unblockable then Aqueous Form is less mana hungry and more wallet friendly. You can also tutor it with Tallowisp.
Legacy URGBOops all my spellsBGRU URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~ BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW UTalrand PolymorphishU UAzami, Lady of CAU BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
Anyone try yet? She'll never be a creature but shes cheap and makes Geist unblockable.
I've been playing for as long as I've played Geist of St. Traft I've never been disappointed. It's rarely a creature but the scry and the ability to make Geist of St. Traft unblockable is invaluable.
If you are just using Thassa for the scry + unblockable then Gaseous Form is less mana hungry and more wallet friendly. You can also tutor it with Tallowisp.
But Gaseous Formnether makes Geist of St. Traft unblockable or scrys. It only stops it from dying. I'm not sure about your build but mine doesn't run any spirits exceptGeist of St. Traft and no arcane. Plus I have other creatures I may want to be unblockable.
I came to the same conclusion with Doran (from my experiences) and realized that having a geddon effect proved to be most useful for me.
What card took Parallax Wave's spot in your deck?
Fact or Fiction. Same potentially game-breaking effects, different step, more uses.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
How about Theros cards
Aqueous Form? Unblockable, Scry 1 every turn seems to amount for protection for Geist while keeping pressure on and filtering topdecks pretty efficiently. Normally I don't like Auras, but with hexproof Geist with counter cover this might be worth considering.
Stymied Hopes: Sort of almost Force spike. Sort of almost Miscalculation, but with a small amount of topdeck filtering stapled to it. My feeling is not effective enough, but that it has its merits.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11024807#post11024807
RD1: played an ashling mono-red land destruction deck, and was able to pull off wins off SOFI, and counterspells to negate any of his relevant spells/threats.
Win 2-0 (1-0)
RD2: went against mono-blue this time with Talrand. Won game 1 on the draw off a weathered wayfarer getting a cavern of souls for me to cast GoST against his counterwall, he had an isochron scepter with Counterspell imprinted. Game 2, he had a telepathy turn 1, but I was able to resolve grand abolisher turn 4 as he was stuck on 3 lands, and I won the counter war, the proceeded with GoST beats.
Win 2-0 (2-0)
RD3: against GAAiV, won game 1 with spell snare for his talisman, to slow him down, and resoved GoST on turn 3 to win with an aggro plan. Game 2 took longer as he was more careful, but he missed his SFM trigger and did not search for any equipment, after we traded counterspells after he cast SFM. I also forgot about the search after he resolved it as he just said "done". And when I proceeded to draw, he wanted to still search but I told him he already missed the trigger, as the wording was "you may..." for SFM. It turned out he had a SOFAF in his hand the whole time, so he might have thought he already searched already. I got pummeled but was able to survive this grindy game as time was called and I ended at 3 life. If he was able to search for a SOFI and equip it, it would have been his win, and a game 3 would have ensued.
Win 1-0 (3-0)
RD4: Intentional Draw with GoST.
RD5: ID with MW to ensure a playoff spot.
I played Sigarda in the Quarterfinals and Game 1 went like this:
Sigarda on the play leading with T1 forest into GSZ getting dryad arbor.
I played a fetchland getting tundra on his EOT.
Turn 2: Sigarda, cast SOFI. (I took a big gulp, and my mind kept saying Oh no I don't have any counterspells). I just played an Island on my turn.
Turn 3: he equips dryad arbor with the sword and attacks after playing a land, I bounce SOFI with an unkicked Into the Roil, taking 1 damage only from the dryad. My turn I play another land and decide to slow play as I can't counter his SOFI if he recasts it, since I was only holding a remove soul as a counterspell.
Turn 4: recasts SOFI (T_T'). I play grand abolisher to block his dryad arbor with mana up for remove soul in case he casts Sigarda which I won't be able to answer.
Turn 5: he equips dryad again and I block with abolisher. He proceeds on casting a Hokori and I gladly use my remove soul even if I was reserving it for his general. On my turn, I played detention sphere on SOFI, play a land and pass the turn.
Fast forward a bit, and by now he was able to cast Sigarda, I was able to cast GoST, Thassa (still an enchantment), and a SFM to get SOFAF(equipped to GoST). He was also able to cast SOFAF, but since he was ahead in life points he already put me down to 8 life with Sigarda holding a SOFAF.
He decided to attack me again with Sigarda holding the SOFAF, and he took me down to 1 life (14 Commander Damage now), while he was still at 23 life, and I had GoST on SOFAF, Thassa Enchantment, and SFM.
I had a chance with my next draw as I can still see 2 cards maximum with Thassa's scry on the upkeep, and I luckily drew an aven mindcensor!
I cast it, attacked with GoST and the Angel token, putting him down to 15 life. Untapped my lands and put the SOFAF on the mindcensor to block sigarda. SFM could block his dryad arbor.
On his next turn he was forced to cast Wrath of God, as he would die next turn with my unblockable army.
I had the advantage with Thassa scrying before the draw step, and was able to dust bowl at least 2 of his lands to ensure sigarda wasn't coming back (Dryad arbor also died to the ***). I was able to recast GoST, and rode him to victory as I had enough counter back up now to handle any threats he was casting.
It was a very exciting and tense game as It could have gone his way had he killed the bird before I equipped or if he was able to destroy my SOFAF too.
Game 2 was faster as I had the spell pierce for his turn 2 GSZ for Zero (into Dryad Arbor), and he got stuck on 3 lands as I wasted one of his non-basic lands. GoST went all the way, and he conceded the game graciously after offering a handshake of respect. He was a fun guy to play and his deck was solid too, with just a mana-screw problem that cost him on the 2nd game.
Top 4 split the prizes.
I also came to ask about Banisher Priest. Seems like a good addition to FH, or a potential upgrade.
I took out Peek and Cyclonic Rift in favor of these two cards in my build.
Also, at what point did Sower come out, and why?
Edit: just noticed no Minamo. Why is that?
I don't like it based on the fact that it's five mana. If you can get it with stoneforge, it's great, but if you ever draw it it really hurts.
I value the 3 toughness more than I do the two power.
Quite a while ago. It's four mana for a 2/2 that doesn't do anything versus removal. In fact, it'll put you behind more if the opponent has instant speed removal - stole a zur? Nope. Now it's attacking and you're tapped out.
Untapping geist literally does nothing. A basic island is superior to it - less wastelandable starts are good.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Playtest my Cube on Cube Tutor
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event2?e=5944&d=234481
If you click on geist of saint traft in mtg top8, you'll see pierre's name a lot. He seems to be constantly placing in top8 with geist.
I would like to discuss his decklist in this thread
Generally speaking, how are we going to adapt Geist to this new meta.
What is the strategy/game plan against green creature decks that block geist all day?
I'm unsure on True-Name, but Unexpectedly Absent has taken the place of Path to Exile.
I'm going to be doing things a bit differently. I haven't had much of a chance to play since the new generals came out, but if this creature-heavy midrangey type thing continues, the current version won't do.
Pierre's build is closer to the mark. Parallax Wave is better and better. Trickbind (which was already on the list for possibilities) is now stronger than ever with all the triggers and activated abilities we want to stop.
1cc card selection will still retain their importance, but I'm not sure if I like portent. it's a thing with Unexpectedly Absent, though.
Darksteel Mutation is awesome.
Pierre also cuts Elspeth from the deck.
This is something I had already been experimenting with, and like a lot. Elspeth is great against a different meta. Versus swarms of creatures, wraths are the way to go.
The evolving meta should be fun for Geist.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Even with Pierre's list, we saw that he got crushed in the finals vs derevi (a very small sample size of only 2 games). Green creature decks are traditionally a very bad matchup for geist.
I want to talk mostly about the STRATEGY that we as geist players should be using when facing down green decks with lots of creatures.
If we establish a successful strategy, I feel that it would be much easier to modify the deck to fit the new meta.
I feel that we need some sort of early game control plan to keep a huge mass of important creatures off the board with spot removal and counters. Then if things get out of hand we should have 2-3 copies of wrath effects. Then entering into the later game, we cast geist with equipment and race to the finish.
Another thing on a side note. The more and more I play I feel that the tutors, E. tutor and M.tutor are bad. They seem very slow in the experience. if you draw them this turn, you have to wait till next turn to use them and i really dislike the card disadvantage, especially if they counter the spell you searched for.
I am considering the following creatures and would like to know your thoughts on them. Thanks in advance.
Lyev Skyknight
True-Name Nemesis
Mirran Crusader
Hero of Bladehold
I was thinking about putting a Lyev-skynight in it as well since it's the same body of a Vendillion, often times all we need to beat down someone's life total, and it also detains a permanent.
Shame my local scene had Geist banned, I was having a lt of fun with it. Maybe it's for the best with all the Oloros that have been popping up lately
Hi Anthares, I agree with a lot of things you mentioned in your post.
I left the creature heavy (more aggressive) version of geist playing 17-25 creatures and moxen for a long time. I was never a fan of this "aggro" style.
I have been playing a list similar to Pierre's for the last half year. 9 creatures and more control cards such as counters, bounce, removal, land destruction effects.
Using a list very similar to Pierres, I felt myself losing a lot to the new green decks of the format, namely, derevi and marath.
I am testing a new strategy on cockatrice now where I play a reactive control role. Ive added better control cards against aggro such as 1) more wraths, 2) Gideon (beast against creature heavy decks) 3) batterskull.
You mentioned that mana denial is very strong against ramp based decks. However, I found that a lot of ramp based decks play a lot of mana artifacts so if you were to play something like armagddeon, it would hurt you a lot more then hurt them and they can recover much more easily due to mana artifacts. In addition, cards such as Armageddon and ravages of war are only really good when you are ahead on board which in my experience is usually not the case vs green decks. The only mana denial im playing atm is cataclysm as it sort or "resets the board".
Right now the strategy that I'm testing is trying to keep their key creatures off the field and preserve my life total and not be "swarmed". Using counters, spot removal, bounce to buy myself time and save my life total. If they over commit, I will hopefully be able to wrath the board. All of this is to buy time until I can draw an equipment so that geist can swing through and race to the finish. Having said this, I am also playing 6 card filter, ponder, preordain type effects in hopes that in some matchups I can filter away the wraths for example against MW who is ramping and has no creatures. I feel playing a high number of 1 CMC filter spells will allow me to draw the cards I need in different matchups and filter the ones I don't want away.
I am still using equipment + geist as my win con. or planeswalkers (gideon, elspeth, JTMS). However instead of trying to cast geist very early and end the game. I am playing the reactive role, trying to control the game to a situation where casting out geist + equipment can win me the race.
This is the current strategy I am using.
Side Note: I'm currently playing 38 lands and no mana artifacts. With the addition of more wraths, gideons, batterskulls, my curve has increased a little. I feel like I want to go to 39 lands.
Cards I also run which are good against green base creatures deck are
Wash Out. It is often an one side wrath. Should take Cataclysm slot imho .
At least it is not a dead card when you are behind, which is usually the case against green deck.
Submerge. The tempo this card generates against green deck is insane. If your metagame is full of green deck. Maindeck it!
Another card I run is Parallax Tide, it is good slowing down the ramp decks. I am not sure if I should also run Enlightened Tutor along with it. I really dislike the card advantage. I can't decide if I should run Enlightened Tutor or Impulse. I wish there is another nice 1cc cantrip.
you think mana rocks is bad against derevi's?
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
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I agree that in order to beat green creature decks we have to play more of the reactive control role and answer their threats. Spot remove if they dont commit too much on the board. Wrath if they do. And when we have a good equipment to race, then we cast race and try to race.
This strategy is working pretty well for me at the moment. The matchup definitely isn't good and its still not easy, but it seems much much better then the traditional "heavier tempo" lists that are played. (refer to pierre's list which he got 2nd place at BOM with).
I am currently playing 3 wraths in my main board (my meta is recently a bit heavy on derevi/marath, people testing out new commanders). I'm also playing gideon as a card that could bash in for 6 and is very very good against creature based decks.
I'm still unsure about whether batterskull is good enough (i cut it for now). Since theres only 1 stoneforge, most of the time you are just casting batterskull for 5 mana. Doesn't seem like it is that good if you have to hard cast for 5 mana.
CommanderEDH Decks:CommanderEDH DecksWULavinia of the Blinking TenthUW RGURiku the Epic Experimenter’s StormUGR UBRThrax and his Super FriendsRBU RWUZedruu the Hard HeartedUWR
WBU Zur the UnstoppableUBW
The biggest problem with Sunder is that it costs five mana - even if it's an instant. Getting to that stage and being able to realistically protect it from opposing countermagic is difficult.
Stick with the four mana wipes.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
She also works well with Tallowisp.
URGBOops all my spellsBGRU
URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~
BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB
GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG
GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
UTalrand PolymorphishU
UAzami, Lady of CAU
BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB
BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB
UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
I've been playing Thassa, God Of the Sea for as long as I've played Geist of St. Traft I've never been disappointed. It's rarely a creature but the scry and the ability to make Geist of St. Traft unblockable is invaluable.
CommanderEDH Decks:CommanderEDH DecksWULavinia of the Blinking TenthUW RGURiku the Epic Experimenter’s StormUGR UBRThrax and his Super FriendsRBU RWUZedruu the Hard HeartedUWR
WBU Zur the UnstoppableUBW
If you are just using for the scry + unblockable then Aqueous Form is less mana hungry and more wallet friendly. You can also tutor it with Tallowisp.
Whoopsy, fixed_
URGBOops all my spellsBGRU
URBYoung GrixisBRU
~Commander~
BUDralnu/ReanimatorUB
GRUMaelstroM WanderiNgURG
GBMerengue Clan of SalsaBG
UTalrand PolymorphishU
UAzami, Lady of CAU
BRWZurgo, Worldslayer BearerWRB
BWUMerieke Ri Berit UWB
UVendilion CliqueU
Modern:U Mono-U TroN U
But Gaseous Formnether makes Geist of St. Traft unblockable or scrys. It only stops it from dying. I'm not sure about your build but mine doesn't run any spirits exceptGeist of St. Traft and no arcane. Plus I have other creatures I may want to be unblockable.
CommanderEDH Decks:CommanderEDH DecksWULavinia of the Blinking TenthUW RGURiku the Epic Experimenter’s StormUGR UBRThrax and his Super FriendsRBU RWUZedruu the Hard HeartedUWR
WBU Zur the UnstoppableUBW