Hey guys, I love the work you've done with this deck over the years. I have one thought - I feel yisan really belongs in this deck. Like you've mentioned the overlap in cards (before yisan's commander ban) is identical. Where yisan completely shines would be in an opening hand. With a mana elf, a turn 2 yisan in this deck would equal the same power level as the reason he was banned months ago (and perhaps greater power in this deck with access to white creatures too). As you also mentioned yisan isn't a strong tutor target itself as it duplicates sisays effect. So he's not a toolbox creature, he's an overpowered engine we want in opening hand.
I think if he's play appropriately yisan is a huge asset in this deck (hope to draw him in opening hand but never tutor for him).
Hey, Sisay fans! I'll start right off the bat by admitting that I haven't played in two months (an obsession with politics and activism took hold of me, but goddamn is that ever draining and despondent work), but the thrall of spoiler season always sucks me back in to at least speculate on potential inclusions. In truth, I've done close to zero work on this deck to adapt it to 20 life, but I intend to do that work. Soon, hopefully.
Anywho, thus far this upcoming set has had more Sisay-playable spoilers than any set in years (imo) and we've only seen half of the cards! Here's what's got me excited in order of viability:
Amazing card is amazing? This hits a large majority of our most essential early-setup creature permanents, yes, but I'm most excited for this functioning as a fetchland ramp play. I've always been on the fence about Wood Elves in a build that isn't tilted heavily towards elves, so the added versatility of this (double Wasteland, heyyyyy) makes this card pretty much an auto-include IMO.
My style of Sisay still involves a big dependence on landing That Big Spell, and we've long lacked for more, competitive, low-cost creature options that help set up inevitability in the early game. This is an overall better Xantid Swarm (even if for only one turn, it can shut off a control/combo player from making any progress on THEIR turn as well, so it's not just an anti-counterspell permanent), and it's definitely something I want to test out. +1 Legend feels good, too.
One fairly consistent thing about this deck over the years is the motley crew of control, protection, and prison-style creatures that aren't combat viable until the mid-to-late game pump, so these creatures just kind of... sit there for several turns. This is a ramp option that better distributes mana elf options rather than, say, depending on Rofellos who gets sniped and then your progress gets stalled. This adds versatility and better inevitability and gives pre-played creatures the immediate ability to tap. Hey, anything to soften the blow of losing Cradle is welcome in my book.
For high mana cost and not having an immediate impact, this one strikes me as the least playable in DC (but superb for multiplayer, right?), so I'm most skeptical of this one. Nevertheless, holy crap, the potential is obvious. Untapping Sisay and mana dorks and recreating some of that Gaea's Cradle single turn mana burst shenanigans of ye olden days is enticing. It's a cool card.
But before all of that hype: I owe y'all an updated 20-life list. Coming soooooon. Probably.
Hi, I am a fan of Sisay deck as well.
I want to recommand some cards to you.
I noticed that you didn't use Command of Dromoka,which is elastic and performs well in my deck.
Palace Jailer is used in Legacy and it can create card advantages if it is well used.(works with Birthing Pod and Eldrith Evolution).
I also used sword of famine, because it works pretty well with Horiki, Dust Drinker
and it's a reasonable fetch for Stoneforge Mystic against mono-green decks.(yes, I mean Titania)
You decklists also bring much inspiration to me, such as Crystal Vein and two moxes.I tested them and verify your choices.
I don't think Aven Mindsensor and Fauna Shaman really work well in this deck.
Looking forward to an updated list for 20 life. I'm now using a Paradox Sisay deck that's unstoppable if i resolve a grand abolisher/dragonlord dromoka/dosan on my turn. Basically I churn out my whole deck especially when Reki is in the battlefield. I win 10% of the time to Zurgo and win 40% to RGx aggro decks. I also have a hard time with blue decks with bribery unless i have sigard v2 in play.
Looking forward to an updated list for 20 life. I'm now using a Paradox Sisay deck that's unstoppable if i resolve a grand abolisher/dragonlord dromoka/dosan on my turn. Basically I churn out my whole deck especially when Reki is in the battlefield. I win 10% of the time to Zurgo and win 40% to RGx aggro decks. I also have a hard time with blue decks with bribery unless i have sigard v2 in play.
hope you get time to update this.
Thanks!
Hello, garganerboy! Your kind words are very much appreciated, and they drew me out of my long hiatus. I want to say that I love your approach. It must be so satisfying to go off with Paradox and basically perform the flashiest Legacy elfball Glimpse combo known to man.
You'll be happy to know that I spent ALL DANG DAY yesterday adjusting the deck for the new 20 HP meta, tuning the deck to the point that it is actually capable of beating Zurgo. Hell, it may even be a 50/50 matchup bordering on favorable at this point after several test sets. I also had some random encounters against control, combo, and "extinction"-style builds, all of which went pretty darn well, trading sets. Sisay, as ever, hovers somewhere between "better than other decks deemed Tier 2 and at the bottom of the Tier 1 list." It's not a bad place to be.
The long-story-short version is that I still argue that there's no reason to play Sisay as a primarily "zoo" deck. She can and does definitely win through straightforward beats, exceedingly more now without even landing Norn just because 20 is so much easier to deal, but the true strength of Sisay lies in her consistent accessibility to combo pieces. I have tuned the deck to blunt early aggro and/or burn decks (life gain, walls, more removal), and the primary gameplan now is to pop off a near-instant win with Dark Depths / Thespian Stage combo.
Yes, the deck has been there before, but I have long history of diluting consistency in order to have multiple combo outs. Now, like never before (not since we had Loyal Retainers / Iona combo, anyway), the deck has a tight focus on its main combo win-con and is running the majority of the viable redundancy options to assemble the combo. A common win condition consists of 1 of the 3 in near-equal measure, nevertheless:
Dark Depths / Thespian Stage Combo
Titania / Safekeeper Combo
Mid-range beatdown, Norn optional
Here's the current list, also in the original post:
Just to address one of the biggest shifts: walls and lifegain are shockingly incredibly good in this deck. They more than make up for the loss of 10 life and confound much of the meta while also (for the most part) providing much-needed card advantage like never before. I not only recommend it, but I may even argue that it's a requirement for 20 HP. There's probably room for Thragtusk in here too if you're more in need.
Anyway, happy to share more if you have questions! I had to make some agonizingly difficult cuts to what I've long considered Sisay staples, but the deck is running so smoothly right now that it gives me quite a bit of confidence in those cuts. Hooray for viability!
(Oh and just as a funny side note: I NEVER get to tap Rofellos, but he eats removal like a champ so I guess that's something.)
Great update riley. will check this list as soon as possible. i placed 2nd in our 10 man match using MTGO banlist and its quite exhilarating when you land elesh norn against the opponent
2-1 titania
2-1 chandra flip
2-1 prossh
i could have sworn that if it was 20 life i could have easily lost most of the games.
i could see that you went for the maybe beatdown/maybe combo win. will try that aproach as well
Congrats on 2nd place!! Elesh Norn continues to make my heart go boom, no matter what starting life.
I appreciate your fighting the good fight and keeping a 30 life list alive. On Cockatrice (at least when I'm on), there's a near-even split between Duel Commander, Leviathan, MTGO, and Multiplayer ban list games and it's.. a lot to navigate. I'm trying to focus exclusively on 20 HP (until/unless the MTGO list really catches on as a clear winner), but I suspect my list would do decently in 30 life as well; remarkably, I won back-to-back games against Keranos after near-total board wipes (lands and creatures) against an active Keranos, so the attrition game is strong. Maybe Sisay always wanted cantrips??
In any event, I'd love to see your list. A Paradox Engine Legendary chain combo deck sounds like a lot of fun to pilot!
Flex spots are, as always, very few, but at 20HP, these are the cards I'm currently skeptical about:
We want some better insurance for our main win con, Depths / Stage, and Eternal Witness isn't enough
My problem with Crucible has always been that turn 3s in this format need to REALLY COUNT, so having a Crucible with legs means a heck of a lot in a very aggro meta
THIS IS ONE HOT DESERT. Pretty much every deck wants to run this, right? Ooze is still good to have, but this is REALLY good to have, especially in a land tutor deck. Dang.
I hesitated before adding this card to the list here because of conflicting rules interpretation, but the consensus seems to be that this card DOES prevent counters from being placed on cards entering the battlefield such as Dark Depths. That's.. INSANELY GOOD. This is not only more insurance for the Depths combo, but it straight up hoses some of our biggest trouble cards: Jitte, Reyhan, and Parallax Wave. Also, think about how this interacts with Glacial Chasm. It would never gain age counters, so your only cost is the initial sacrificing of the land. This otherwise costs NO LIFE and stalls combat until, say, you assemble Depths (or ramp into Norn). I'm not sure if you can sacrifice this land though, if there's no upkeep to pay? Anyone know for sure? "At the beginning of your upkeep, if this permanent is on the battlefield, put an age counter on this permanent. Then you may pay [cost] for each age counter on it. If you don't, sacrifice it."
Hmm, not sure if we want this or not. "XGG, Sorcery, Search your library for up to X creature cards with different names that each have converted mana cost X, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library." Getting Wayferer for 3 isn't so bad. Getting Gaddock Teeg and Saffi for 4 isn't so bad. Getting Knight of the Reliquary and Fierce Empath and Fairgrounds Warden for 4 isn't so bad. I don't know. It's kind of in Harmonize territory for being slow and putting us in vulnernable tap-out and seems just lousy vs control...
I'll update with more probable-includes as they become spoiled.
Haha, well... Kitchen Finks unfortunately falls into that category that dozens of other cards fall into in my experience: it's sort of trapped in maybeboard purgatory as a flex card, benched perhaps unfairly. It's an AWESOME card especially in the current meta (for totally relevant lifegain, surviving post-wrath to continue to take on Planeswalkers in particular, and as a delaying wall), but something has to come out in order for us to test other cards and there's just enough ambivalence here for me that Finks is one of those rotating cards.
Renegade Rallier falls into the same category. Amazing 3 drop and pretty much always useful and even good for our ramp/protection/walling strategy on a body where 3 power is super relevant. It's just... barely not a shoe-in, as it doesn't necessarily directly advance our gameplan nor does it function necessarily as a win con nor does it function as well as a delaying prison/hate-bear as other cards. It's agonizingly difficult to make these cuts! But ultimately, a lot of my card decisions come down to "does this help me win faster or does this help shut down my opponent's ability to advance or win?" Advance? Delay? Hose?
But yeah, knowing how fickle I am about my flex spots, Finks in particular is likely to come in and out and in and out and in and repeat forever...
Deck updated to abuse the incredibly short-sighted and inconsistent recent unbanning decisions of the rules committee. :;shruggie::
Obviously: abuse Fastbond. Abuse Fastbond. But just know that the meta will become flooded with Dark Depth combo decks taking advantage of this unbanning (already happening on Cockatrice, joy), so be careful about your play order in the inevitable many mirror matches you'll be facing and enjoy Dark Depths while it's legal. Also: Solemnity is bonkers. Even with Fastbond bull***** aside, you can have a turn 3 20/20 flying Indestructible flier pretty darn easily with this deck.
But for real, that unbanning made our path even more clear. I've made some tweaks to ensure a bit safer mana-fixing with 2-drops, and Ramunup/Crucible abuse is just... *sigh*
I don't know, witnessing 2 completely different commanders have turn 2 wins with Fastbond just...
Meh.
It's increasingly difficult to be excited about this format. Full stop.
hey there Rile! I've been i big fan of this thread ever since it was started! do you think we could have a updated list with the new planes-walker rule in effect? that would be awesome
hey there Rile! I've been i big fan of this thread ever since it was started! do you think we could have a updated list with the new planes-walker rule in effect? that would be awesome
Hiii, darekowns! Thank you very much for your appreciation of the thread. It means a lot to me.
This new Planeswalkers as Legendary creatures change was very unexpected to me, but it makes quite a bit of sense and is pretty exciting! Hmm, but I doubt it would have much of an effect on Sisay without making, say, some kind of very Kytheon-centric deck, there are very few G/W PW cards that are competitive and fit our curve. a Kythen-centric deck, though! Could be an interesting angle. You'd want to add:
And that's.. about it, I'd think. I suppose your whole line of play would be to get Gideon of the Trials out and proceed to "not lose" as best as you can. Unfortunately, Time of Need wouldn't add much, since it requires the type "creature" to be a part of the card as well.
Not to be completely negative about the prospect: I do like the idea of having toolbox access to same turn removal for the first time ever, though; Karn Liberated and/or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is pretty cool—although their mana investment is still pretty bonkers without having access to Cradle (RiP forever). Without changing anything, though, I must admit that Garruk Wildspeaker joining the toolbox is pretty dang cool, considering he's always been (imo) the best PW for the deck and is pretty much excellent at all stages of the game.
Elspeth is.. okay. Trying to out-aggro one turn at a time with 1/1 vanilla creatures in this meta without otherwise having access to a ton of removal seems increasingly like a terrible idea. Beyond the aforementioned PWers, there's nothing else that comes to mind (or that I can see from top 8 data) worth considering in Selesnya colors. I've long been bummed about the imbalance of powerful commanders that leaves our colors mostly in the dark, and sadly I don't think this rules change benefits us all that much.
Seems like this deck would gain significant improvement in the MTGO 1v1 30-life format. Have you tried it there?
You're prooobably right. You'd be amazed at how much of a difference needing to swing twice with Dark Depths makes, though, or how much a meta shift that allows far more blue control decks can make Sisay dilute heavily with cards that are otherwise not ideal in other matchups—but it's been a long while since I've played 30 life, so who knows? Depths combo is actually pretty tough to disrupt either which way.
I really wanted to try MTGO, but I didn't want to invest the money (or time) needed to recreate the deck.
Haha but I always hope better players than me will adopt the deck; I manage to do fairly well despite routinely making sub-optimal decisions.
No, I don't think Growing Ritea makes sense in this deck for the following reasons: 1) your commander is better CA than this card, 2) casting often means spending a turn essentially doing nothing, and 3) the enchantment will never flip.
If you ever cast this and don't immediately flip it then you've just time walked yourself, and I imagine that to be the standard with thiscard in this deck.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing with proxied cards at sanctioned events is good, actually.
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
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I think if he's play appropriately yisan is a huge asset in this deck (hope to draw him in opening hand but never tutor for him).
My 2 cents thx
Anywho, thus far this upcoming set has had more Sisay-playable spoilers than any set in years (imo) and we've only seen half of the cards! Here's what's got me excited in order of viability:
1. Renegade Rallier
Amazing card is amazing? This hits a large majority of our most essential early-setup creature permanents, yes, but I'm most excited for this functioning as a fetchland ramp play. I've always been on the fence about Wood Elves in a build that isn't tilted heavily towards elves, so the added versatility of this (double Wasteland, heyyyyy) makes this card pretty much an auto-include IMO.
2. Hope of Girapur
My style of Sisay still involves a big dependence on landing That Big Spell, and we've long lacked for more, competitive, low-cost creature options that help set up inevitability in the early game. This is an overall better Xantid Swarm (even if for only one turn, it can shut off a control/combo player from making any progress on THEIR turn as well, so it's not just an anti-counterspell permanent), and it's definitely something I want to test out. +1 Legend feels good, too.
3. Rishkar, Peema Renegade
One fairly consistent thing about this deck over the years is the motley crew of control, protection, and prison-style creatures that aren't combat viable until the mid-to-late game pump, so these creatures just kind of... sit there for several turns. This is a ramp option that better distributes mana elf options rather than, say, depending on Rofellos who gets sniped and then your progress gets stalled. This adds versatility and better inevitability and gives pre-played creatures the immediate ability to tap. Hey, anything to soften the blow of losing Cradle is welcome in my book.
4. Paradox Engine
For high mana cost and not having an immediate impact, this one strikes me as the least playable in DC (but superb for multiplayer, right?), so I'm most skeptical of this one. Nevertheless, holy crap, the potential is obvious. Untapping Sisay and mana dorks and recreating some of that Gaea's Cradle single turn mana burst shenanigans of ye olden days is enticing. It's a cool card.
But before all of that hype: I owe y'all an updated 20-life list. Coming soooooon. Probably.
<3 <3 <3
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
I want to recommand some cards to you.
I noticed that you didn't use Command of Dromoka,which is elastic and performs well in my deck.
Palace Jailer is used in Legacy and it can create card advantages if it is well used.(works with Birthing Pod and Eldrith Evolution).
I also used sword of famine, because it works pretty well with Horiki, Dust Drinker
and it's a reasonable fetch for Stoneforge Mystic against mono-green decks.(yes, I mean Titania)
You decklists also bring much inspiration to me, such as Crystal Vein and two moxes.I tested them and verify your choices.
I don't think Aven Mindsensor and Fauna Shaman really work well in this deck.
Looking forward to an updated list for 20 life. I'm now using a Paradox Sisay deck that's unstoppable if i resolve a grand abolisher/dragonlord dromoka/dosan on my turn. Basically I churn out my whole deck especially when Reki is in the battlefield. I win 10% of the time to Zurgo and win 40% to RGx aggro decks. I also have a hard time with blue decks with bribery unless i have sigard v2 in play.
hope you get time to update this.
Thanks!
Hello, garganerboy! Your kind words are very much appreciated, and they drew me out of my long hiatus. I want to say that I love your approach. It must be so satisfying to go off with Paradox and basically perform the flashiest Legacy elfball Glimpse combo known to man.
You'll be happy to know that I spent ALL DANG DAY yesterday adjusting the deck for the new 20 HP meta, tuning the deck to the point that it is actually capable of beating Zurgo. Hell, it may even be a 50/50 matchup bordering on favorable at this point after several test sets. I also had some random encounters against control, combo, and "extinction"-style builds, all of which went pretty darn well, trading sets. Sisay, as ever, hovers somewhere between "better than other decks deemed Tier 2 and at the bottom of the Tier 1 list." It's not a bad place to be.
Anyway, I added quite a bit to the first post here, and I re-posted the deck on Tapped Out: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/captain-sisay-duel-commander-20-hp-metagame/
The long-story-short version is that I still argue that there's no reason to play Sisay as a primarily "zoo" deck. She can and does definitely win through straightforward beats, exceedingly more now without even landing Norn just because 20 is so much easier to deal, but the true strength of Sisay lies in her consistent accessibility to combo pieces. I have tuned the deck to blunt early aggro and/or burn decks (life gain, walls, more removal), and the primary gameplan now is to pop off a near-instant win with Dark Depths / Thespian Stage combo.
Yes, the deck has been there before, but I have long history of diluting consistency in order to have multiple combo outs. Now, like never before (not since we had Loyal Retainers / Iona combo, anyway), the deck has a tight focus on its main combo win-con and is running the majority of the viable redundancy options to assemble the combo. A common win condition consists of 1 of the 3 in near-equal measure, nevertheless:
Here's the current list, also in the original post:
1 Captain Sisay
// 7 Artifact
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Birthing Pod
1 Skullclamp
1 Expedition Map
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Smuggler's Copter
// 37 Creature
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Arbor Elf
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Mother of Runes
1 Fierce Empath
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eternal Witness
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Boreal Druid
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Wall of Omens
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Selvala, Explorer Returned
1 Wall of Roots
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Voice of Resurgence
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Primeval Titan
1 Wild Growth
1 Utopia Sprawl
1 Exploration
// 6 Instant
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Mana Tithe
1 Crop Rotation
1 Path to Exile
1 Dromoka's Command
// 39 Land
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Flagstones of Trokair
11 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Command Tower
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Canopy Vista
1 Wasteland
1 Dark Depths
1 Mouth of Ronom
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Brushland
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
// 6 Sorcery
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Council's Judgment
1 Into the North
1 Eldritch Evolution
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Explore
Just to address one of the biggest shifts: walls and lifegain are shockingly incredibly good in this deck. They more than make up for the loss of 10 life and confound much of the meta while also (for the most part) providing much-needed card advantage like never before. I not only recommend it, but I may even argue that it's a requirement for 20 HP. There's probably room for Thragtusk in here too if you're more in need.
Anyway, happy to share more if you have questions! I had to make some agonizingly difficult cuts to what I've long considered Sisay staples, but the deck is running so smoothly right now that it gives me quite a bit of confidence in those cuts. Hooray for viability!
(Oh and just as a funny side note: I NEVER get to tap Rofellos, but he eats removal like a champ so I guess that's something.)
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
2-1 titania
2-1 chandra flip
2-1 prossh
i could have sworn that if it was 20 life i could have easily lost most of the games.
i could see that you went for the maybe beatdown/maybe combo win. will try that aproach as well
I appreciate your fighting the good fight and keeping a 30 life list alive. On Cockatrice (at least when I'm on), there's a near-even split between Duel Commander, Leviathan, MTGO, and Multiplayer ban list games and it's.. a lot to navigate. I'm trying to focus exclusively on 20 HP (until/unless the MTGO list really catches on as a clear winner), but I suspect my list would do decently in 30 life as well; remarkably, I won back-to-back games against Keranos after near-total board wipes (lands and creatures) against an active Keranos, so the attrition game is strong. Maybe Sisay always wanted cantrips??
In any event, I'd love to see your list. A Paradox Engine Legendary chain combo deck sounds like a lot of fun to pilot!
Flex spots are, as always, very few, but at 20HP, these are the cards I'm currently skeptical about:
Currently (re)testing Sylvan Library, Unexpectedly Absent, and Crucible of Worlds in their place. Also, re-included Mana Confluence and Razorverge Thicket for slightly more consistent white mana in my opener.
Edit for random fun(??) notes. In the current MTGO metagame, Captain Sisay:
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Ramunap Excavator
Scavenger Grounds
THIS IS ONE HOT DESERT. Pretty much every deck wants to run this, right? Ooze is still good to have, but this is REALLY good to have, especially in a land tutor deck. Dang.
Solemnity
I hesitated before adding this card to the list here because of conflicting rules interpretation, but the consensus seems to be that this card DOES prevent counters from being placed on cards entering the battlefield such as Dark Depths. That's.. INSANELY GOOD. This is not only more insurance for the Depths combo, but it straight up hoses some of our biggest trouble cards: Jitte, Reyhan, and Parallax Wave. Also, think about how this interacts with Glacial Chasm. It would never gain age counters, so your only cost is the initial sacrificing of the land. This otherwise costs NO LIFE and stalls combat until, say, you assemble Depths (or ramp into Norn). I'm not sure if you can sacrifice this land though, if there's no upkeep to pay? Anyone know for sure? "At the beginning of your upkeep, if this permanent is on the battlefield, put an age counter on this permanent. Then you may pay [cost] for each age counter on it. If you don't, sacrifice it."
Hour of Promise
I mean, why not? 1 mana fewer than Prime Time for the combo seems good.
Uncage the Menagerie
Hmm, not sure if we want this or not. "XGG, Sorcery, Search your library for up to X creature cards with different names that each have converted mana cost X, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library." Getting Wayferer for 3 isn't so bad. Getting Gaddock Teeg and Saffi for 4 isn't so bad. Getting Knight of the Reliquary and Fierce Empath and Fairgrounds Warden for 4 isn't so bad. I don't know. It's kind of in Harmonize territory for being slow and putting us in vulnernable tap-out and seems just lousy vs control...
I'll update with more probable-includes as they become spoiled.
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Renegade Rallier falls into the same category. Amazing 3 drop and pretty much always useful and even good for our ramp/protection/walling strategy on a body where 3 power is super relevant. It's just... barely not a shoe-in, as it doesn't necessarily directly advance our gameplan nor does it function necessarily as a win con nor does it function as well as a delaying prison/hate-bear as other cards. It's agonizingly difficult to make these cuts! But ultimately, a lot of my card decisions come down to "does this help me win faster or does this help shut down my opponent's ability to advance or win?" Advance? Delay? Hose?
But yeah, knowing how fickle I am about my flex spots, Finks in particular is likely to come in and out and in and out and in and repeat forever...
Case in point: my current list includes Blessed Alliance and Sakura-Tribe Scout/Skyshroud Ranger, and who knows if they'll be good enough to keep? But they seem relevant. For the moment. Maybe.
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Obviously: abuse Fastbond. Abuse Fastbond. But just know that the meta will become flooded with Dark Depth combo decks taking advantage of this unbanning (already happening on Cockatrice, joy), so be careful about your play order in the inevitable many mirror matches you'll be facing and enjoy Dark Depths while it's legal. Also: Solemnity is bonkers. Even with Fastbond bull***** aside, you can have a turn 3 20/20 flying Indestructible flier pretty darn easily with this deck.
But for real, that unbanning made our path even more clear. I've made some tweaks to ensure a bit safer mana-fixing with 2-drops, and Ramunup/Crucible abuse is just... *sigh*
I don't know, witnessing 2 completely different commanders have turn 2 wins with Fastbond just...
Meh.
It's increasingly difficult to be excited about this format. Full stop.
1x Captain Sisay
Creature (30)
1x Arbor Elf
1x Avacyn's Pilgrim
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Benevolent Bodyguard
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Boreal Druid
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Elvish Mystic
1x Elvish Visionary
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Llanowar Elves
1x Lotus Cobra
1x Mother of Runes
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip
1x Priest of Titania
1x Primeval Titan
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Recruiter of the Guard
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sylvan Ranger
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
1x Weathered Wayfarer
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Arid Mesa
1x Brushland
1x Canopy Vista
1x Cavern of Souls
1x City of Traitors
1x Command Tower
1x Crystal Vein
1x Dark Depths
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Dust Bowl
1x Eiganjo Castle
1x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Flooded Strand
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Razorverge Thicket
1x Savannah
1x Scattered Groves
6x Snow-Covered Forest
2x Snow-Covered Plains
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Temple Garden
1x Temple of Plenty
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Bastion
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Yavimaya Hollow
1x Council's Judgment
1x Cultivate
1x Eldritch Evolution
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Hour of Promise
1x Into the North
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Nature's Lore
1x Sylvan Scrying
1x Three Visits
Instant (9)
1x Chord of Calling
1x Crop Rotation
1x Dromoka's Command
1x Eladamri's Call
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Mana Tithe
1x Path to Exile
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Worldly Tutor
Enchantment (5)
1x Exploration
1x Fastbond
1x Solemnity
1x Utopia Sprawl
1x Wild Growth
Artifact (5)
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Expedition Map
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Skullclamp
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Planeswalker (1)
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=265809
Hiii, darekowns! Thank you very much for your appreciation of the thread. It means a lot to me.
This new Planeswalkers as Legendary creatures change was very unexpected to me, but it makes quite a bit of sense and is pretty exciting! Hmm, but I doubt it would have much of an effect on Sisay without making, say, some kind of very Kytheon-centric deck, there are very few G/W PW cards that are competitive and fit our curve. a Kythen-centric deck, though! Could be an interesting angle. You'd want to add:
And that's.. about it, I'd think. I suppose your whole line of play would be to get Gideon of the Trials out and proceed to "not lose" as best as you can. Unfortunately, Time of Need wouldn't add much, since it requires the type "creature" to be a part of the card as well.
Not to be completely negative about the prospect: I do like the idea of having toolbox access to same turn removal for the first time ever, though; Karn Liberated and/or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon is pretty cool—although their mana investment is still pretty bonkers without having access to Cradle (RiP forever). Without changing anything, though, I must admit that Garruk Wildspeaker joining the toolbox is pretty dang cool, considering he's always been (imo) the best PW for the deck and is pretty much excellent at all stages of the game.
Elspeth is.. okay. Trying to out-aggro one turn at a time with 1/1 vanilla creatures in this meta without otherwise having access to a ton of removal seems increasingly like a terrible idea. Beyond the aforementioned PWers, there's nothing else that comes to mind (or that I can see from top 8 data) worth considering in Selesnya colors. I've long been bummed about the imbalance of powerful commanders that leaves our colors mostly in the dark, and sadly I don't think this rules change benefits us all that much.
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
You're prooobably right. You'd be amazed at how much of a difference needing to swing twice with Dark Depths makes, though, or how much a meta shift that allows far more blue control decks can make Sisay dilute heavily with cards that are otherwise not ideal in other matchups—but it's been a long while since I've played 30 life, so who knows? Depths combo is actually pretty tough to disrupt either which way.
I really wanted to try MTGO, but I didn't want to invest the money (or time) needed to recreate the deck.
Haha but I always hope better players than me will adopt the deck; I manage to do fairly well despite routinely making sub-optimal decisions.
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Duel commander is still the dominant commander format on Cockatrice, but MTGO-style games aren't hard to come by.
Well then!
"4 or more creatures" is a lot to ask for, but it's:
Probably safe to add? Anyone seeing anything else spoiled from Ixalan worthwhile to us?
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
If you ever cast this and don't immediately flip it then you've just time walked yourself, and I imagine that to be the standard with thiscard in this deck.
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.