Siege Rhino: in my xp, this is just too slow and offers no real disruption, put Thrun instead to beat those control faces
Ob walker: imo Dark Tutelage is better in this slot, or Hero's Downfall
Steelshaper: SFM seems enough :)So maybe Winter Orb in its place
Lightning Greaves: Sure we want to protect Ana, but imo it's really not worth it, maybe Beast Within in this slot?
Grave Titan: I'd use Sun Titan first before this one, but 6 mana is just too much for the deck
Living Death: better if you have Survival or Fauna, but then mass reanimation wont be your plan... unless you make this work
Liliana Vess: Too costly in this deck for what it does
have you tried Oona's Blackguard, Brain Maggot and Mesmeric Fiend? And Night's Whisper is good too
it's better to have cheap-things-that-disrupt to cast in this deck at any point of the game so skipping on 5 mana spells is nice unless you want to play midrange and that would be a diff story.
I was the thinking the same about TKS. But still. I got 9 colorless producing Lands in my Deck. Might be enough. As long as this works i will try him. Plus i ca go up to ten by adding a brushland.
How many colorless sources do you have?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing Modern and Pauper and Pauper cmdr
Modern:
Heartless Gitrog
wait... did you just forgot Caverns? or you dont run it?
how's Natuko Monastery?
I currently don't run Cavern of Souls, It's pretty inflexible with casting other spells and most of the creatures in the deck. The Monastery is the best man land in duel commander if you ask me. Getting threshold isn't hard and its activation cost is only GW and it has first strike.
wow, no problems with counter decks? imo it's still a good land to run
anyway, another top 8 yesterday, only 20+ players though, lost only to narset in swiss and quarterfinals had a case of very bad hand and draws against a control player removed Mox for Night's Whisper and Warping Wail for Maelstrom Pulse.
might bring the mox back and change cobra into the 40th land though. Pulse is fine, I mainly put it in for titania hahaha
You say you are playing cobra ? I always feel I'd rather play a threat on turn 2 rather than develop my mana.
What do you feel could get the axe to make room for Anguished Unmaking ? I'm thinking either Beast Within or Night's whisper (which I use as a filler - always going in and out of my list).
mana wise, putting in a 3cmc should take another 3cmc slot, too much 3cmc hinders the tempo...
imo, i would never remove that beast within, the beast is almost irrelevant, the disruption you can gain is worth it.
I was only testing cobra becoz of tks will definitely remove it again haha
Gonna try the Tireless Tracker in my Deck.
Atm testing with Thalia's Lieutenant aswell. It looks quite good for now.
the tracker seems powerful! please tell us your results
lieutenant seems meh relies too much on other cards imo
What are your thoughts on Bygone Bishop , low curve allows us to trigger it many times. I only got three creatures who doesn´t trigger it. Might be worth a try
Plus evasion is always nice.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing Modern and Pauper and Pauper cmdr
Modern:
Heartless Gitrog
Still floundering around with different commanders. Right now, I'm using skullbriar, the walking grave, but I am having issues / don't know what to do with the deck. I realized it is basically trying to do aggro disruption and anafenza seems to basically do this but much more efficiently. White also gives me armageddon and various other huge effects that I am wishing I had for skullbriar.
I notice there is a bit of divergence in how people are building the deck. Is the aggro disruption strategy effective in less known metas? My city is very new to duel commander. We've been doing weekly things for about a month. The top deck in the league right now is narset, but it is not really similar to the typical ones I see on top 8 lists. It is more of a combo deck where he ramps into narset and time walks / buries you with a bunch of bigger spells. There are a bunch of control elements as well, but it still seems to be less controlling than other narset lists, forgoing most 1-for-1 spells. I find skullbriar is just not fast enough for this and the disruption is inconsistent - relying on pox effects to get more mana denial in, but that kills my own attacking power and is very awkward in this kind of matchup. I tried using mana dorks but there is not really anything to ramp into unless I get a really good hand. Anafenza makes opening hands with mana dorks very strong, allowing for a lot of pressure right away. I ended up cutting them and now I am finding less and less to do on turn 1, which makes control matchups even more awkward.
I haven't run into them yet, but there are 2 thalia decks and 2 geist decks. Anafenza can at least get in the way as a blocker if things go bad, but she's also just bigger than them right away, so she must be removed. Skullbriar is too weak to fight them early, and will be removed only if it becomes a problem. If I have to use removal to clear a way for skullbriar, then they just remove him and I am left with very little board presence - I can't really apply the pressure I want to be applying. There's just a lot of problems I am finding (except when I get really good hands). I also sort of forced tainted pact into the deck but now there are a few questionable lands left in the deck lol. Haven't been punished for it, yet, but it will happen, eventually.
TL;DR (and main questions)
My city is new to duel commander. I built a skullbriar deck, but am thinking of jumping over to anafenza (currently my skullbriar deck is also trying to do aggro + disruption but is extremely inconsistent at best). Is this a good idea? Top local deck is a narset deck but it basically does time warp combos rather than tons of spot removal like I see in top8 lists. There are also a bunch of aggro decks using thalia or geist.
I want a deck that will be resilient in most matchups. From what I've seen, it looks like I would enjoy playing the deck. I just don't want to invest in the expensive cards I will be needing only to find the deck melting in too many matchups (though it seems like different builds will allow it to succeed in almost any meta - is this true? I don't mind swapping cards if it will make the deck work).
Thanks for any advice.
EDIT:
I also wanted to ask if Nissa, Voice of Zendikar has a place in this deck. It seems to work similarly to abzan ascendancy or curse of predation - basically an anthem effect. It has the +1/+1 counters if people are still sticking with that theme and the plant tokens at least get pumped by nissa or anafenza. They also make great clamp or diabolic intent fodder. I read through all the discussion in this thread and didn't see any on this card. I thought it shouldn't be completely overlooked.
So it's been awhile since I last posted on here. I've terribly busy but I have still been actively fiddling with ana since my last major post. I have tried a couple different angles. I tried a version with plenty of colorless sources to run some amazing eldrazi like reality smasher and TKS (which I still believe has its merits), but ultimately I feel like geddon/ravages/cata plan is still the way to go. I'll be posting an update list in the coming month. But meanwhile I wa want to discuss a few new(er) cards.
GRIM FLAYER - This guy is a godsend, the best creature printed for this archetype in years. Especially in a post geddon situation, being able filter away non-lands while looking for lands is amazing. I consider this guy mandatory in any Doran/Ana list. 10/10
ANGUISHED UNMAKING - This is a straight up upgrade over BEAST WITHIN. I can't see any world where playing an aggro deck and giving your opponent a creature that trades or eats half the critters in your deck is a good thing. 3 life lose? Who cares, if this makes a difference then you lost for other reasons. Even if you insist on running BW this card is mandatory within the 99. 10/10
COLLECTIVE BRUTALITY - I know not everyone playes castigate, but I have always found room for it in my 99, and this card is basically the same card with upside. The amount of tempo plays here are insane. Nothing feels as good as paying 2mana and discarding an irrelevant card to not only thoughtsieze but also kill an unflipped Jace. The third mode is sadly largely irrelevant, but I can live with it since the other 2 modes are almost always relavent. I was previously testing appetite for brains in this spot. 8/10
TIRELESS TRACKER - While the 3 drop spot easily gets crowded, I still believe it worth a spot. This guy gets out of control really quickly, and usually nets you two cards worth of value immediately with a fetch land. Make no mistake, other suggestions like Bygone Bishop & Coursor of Kruphix don't even come close in terms of card advantage, let alone in terms of combat. I can only see not running this dude for reasons related to mana curve. 7/10
DUSKWATCH RECRUITER - Im still testing this guy out and judging his overall value. Both sides are beneficial (making Ana cost one less to recast is fantastic). Other options I have considered in this spot would be good ole PUTRID LEACH & MAYOR OF AVENBROOK. Both of which have their merits. In a heavy blue meta MAYOR could edeg out the other options. At the end of the day RECRUITER is a servicable 2 drop that fills the curve. 5/10
I have seen several suggestions on these foruns for anthems of various sorts. Frankly most are pretty awful and just punish overtending to get value. ABZAN ASCENDANCY, NISSA, and BEHIND THE SCENES are all pretty sub-par. If there is a desire to run one of these the best one of these options by far is CURSE OF PREDATION, as this one adds continual value and at least has the potential to run away with a game.
Lastly, is anyone still playing AVEN MINDCENSOR? I just can't seem to justify playing him much. So few tutors actually exist in this format atm, it basically only hates on fetch lands, which if an opponent has a fetch land in his opening hand, is using on the first or second turn; before MC is even online (and no, this deck is not passing on turn 2 with a mana dork up to cast him instead of ANA). I think the only relavent match where I really want him is vs TITANIA. Thoughts?
If I have missed something when evaluating these cards please let me know. I am open to suggestions.
and you really should get Gaddock, it will help a LOT!
Gonna go to a Commander FNM
I think Sorin will make the cut.
Modern:
Heartless Gitrog
Pauper:
Zombies
Delve
Canadian Thresh
Ob walker: imo Dark Tutelage is better in this slot, or Hero's Downfall
Steelshaper: SFM seems enough :)So maybe Winter Orb in its place
Lightning Greaves: Sure we want to protect Ana, but imo it's really not worth it, maybe Beast Within in this slot?
Grave Titan: I'd use Sun Titan first before this one, but 6 mana is just too much for the deck
Living Death: better if you have Survival or Fauna, but then mass reanimation wont be your plan... unless you make this work
Liliana Vess: Too costly in this deck for what it does
have you tried Oona's Blackguard, Brain Maggot and Mesmeric Fiend? And Night's Whisper is good too
it's better to have cheap-things-that-disrupt to cast in this deck at any point of the game so skipping on 5 mana spells is nice unless you want to play midrange and that would be a diff story.
anyway, uw decks might make a comeback specially gst.
since necro ooze is still not banned it might see more play
titiania still remains though
what bothers me is the colored mana production so idk if TKS is still good in the list...
How many colorless sources do you have?
Modern:
Heartless Gitrog
Pauper:
Zombies
Delve
Canadian Thresh
Modern:
Heartless Gitrog
Pauper:
Zombies
Delve
Canadian Thresh
3 pains
3 filter
1 wasteland
1 port
1 tech edge
1 nantuko monastery
1 dust bowl
how's Natuko Monastery?
I currently don't run Cavern of Souls, It's pretty inflexible with casting other spells and most of the creatures in the deck. The Monastery is the best man land in duel commander if you ask me. Getting threshold isn't hard and its activation cost is only GW and it has first strike.
anyway, another top 8 yesterday, only 20+ players though, lost only to narset in swiss and quarterfinals had a case of very bad hand and draws against a control player removed Mox for Night's Whisper and Warping Wail for Maelstrom Pulse.
might bring the mox back and change cobra into the 40th land though. Pulse is fine, I mainly put it in for titania hahaha
I don´t wanna give my opponent a decent blocker
Modern:
Heartless Gitrog
Pauper:
Zombies
Delve
Canadian Thresh
Atm testing with Thalia's Lieutenant aswell. It looks quite good for now.
reards
Modern:
Heartless Gitrog
Pauper:
Zombies
Delve
Canadian Thresh
mana wise, putting in a 3cmc should take another 3cmc slot, too much 3cmc hinders the tempo...
imo, i would never remove that beast within, the beast is almost irrelevant, the disruption you can gain is worth it.
I was only testing cobra becoz of tks will definitely remove it again haha
the tracker seems powerful! please tell us your results
lieutenant seems meh relies too much on other cards imo
@asimov - how's SOBAM?
Plus evasion is always nice.
Modern:
Heartless Gitrog
Pauper:
Zombies
Delve
Canadian Thresh
So i would go with Tireless Tracker.
As stated, I was also thinking about the bishop, but with only 26 creatures in my list i dont think it´s worth a try.
Modern:
Heartless Gitrog
Pauper:
Zombies
Delve
Canadian Thresh
I notice there is a bit of divergence in how people are building the deck. Is the aggro disruption strategy effective in less known metas? My city is very new to duel commander. We've been doing weekly things for about a month. The top deck in the league right now is narset, but it is not really similar to the typical ones I see on top 8 lists. It is more of a combo deck where he ramps into narset and time walks / buries you with a bunch of bigger spells. There are a bunch of control elements as well, but it still seems to be less controlling than other narset lists, forgoing most 1-for-1 spells. I find skullbriar is just not fast enough for this and the disruption is inconsistent - relying on pox effects to get more mana denial in, but that kills my own attacking power and is very awkward in this kind of matchup. I tried using mana dorks but there is not really anything to ramp into unless I get a really good hand. Anafenza makes opening hands with mana dorks very strong, allowing for a lot of pressure right away. I ended up cutting them and now I am finding less and less to do on turn 1, which makes control matchups even more awkward.
I haven't run into them yet, but there are 2 thalia decks and 2 geist decks. Anafenza can at least get in the way as a blocker if things go bad, but she's also just bigger than them right away, so she must be removed. Skullbriar is too weak to fight them early, and will be removed only if it becomes a problem. If I have to use removal to clear a way for skullbriar, then they just remove him and I am left with very little board presence - I can't really apply the pressure I want to be applying. There's just a lot of problems I am finding (except when I get really good hands). I also sort of forced tainted pact into the deck but now there are a few questionable lands left in the deck lol. Haven't been punished for it, yet, but it will happen, eventually.
TL;DR (and main questions)
My city is new to duel commander. I built a skullbriar deck, but am thinking of jumping over to anafenza (currently my skullbriar deck is also trying to do aggro + disruption but is extremely inconsistent at best). Is this a good idea? Top local deck is a narset deck but it basically does time warp combos rather than tons of spot removal like I see in top8 lists. There are also a bunch of aggro decks using thalia or geist.
I want a deck that will be resilient in most matchups. From what I've seen, it looks like I would enjoy playing the deck. I just don't want to invest in the expensive cards I will be needing only to find the deck melting in too many matchups (though it seems like different builds will allow it to succeed in almost any meta - is this true? I don't mind swapping cards if it will make the deck work).
Thanks for any advice.
EDIT:
I also wanted to ask if Nissa, Voice of Zendikar has a place in this deck. It seems to work similarly to abzan ascendancy or curse of predation - basically an anthem effect. It has the +1/+1 counters if people are still sticking with that theme and the plant tokens at least get pumped by nissa or anafenza. They also make great clamp or diabolic intent fodder. I read through all the discussion in this thread and didn't see any on this card. I thought it shouldn't be completely overlooked.
GRIM FLAYER - This guy is a godsend, the best creature printed for this archetype in years. Especially in a post geddon situation, being able filter away non-lands while looking for lands is amazing. I consider this guy mandatory in any Doran/Ana list. 10/10
ANGUISHED UNMAKING - This is a straight up upgrade over BEAST WITHIN. I can't see any world where playing an aggro deck and giving your opponent a creature that trades or eats half the critters in your deck is a good thing. 3 life lose? Who cares, if this makes a difference then you lost for other reasons. Even if you insist on running BW this card is mandatory within the 99. 10/10
COLLECTIVE BRUTALITY - I know not everyone playes castigate, but I have always found room for it in my 99, and this card is basically the same card with upside. The amount of tempo plays here are insane. Nothing feels as good as paying 2mana and discarding an irrelevant card to not only thoughtsieze but also kill an unflipped Jace. The third mode is sadly largely irrelevant, but I can live with it since the other 2 modes are almost always relavent. I was previously testing appetite for brains in this spot. 8/10
TIRELESS TRACKER - While the 3 drop spot easily gets crowded, I still believe it worth a spot. This guy gets out of control really quickly, and usually nets you two cards worth of value immediately with a fetch land. Make no mistake, other suggestions like Bygone Bishop & Coursor of Kruphix don't even come close in terms of card advantage, let alone in terms of combat. I can only see not running this dude for reasons related to mana curve. 7/10
DUSKWATCH RECRUITER - Im still testing this guy out and judging his overall value. Both sides are beneficial (making Ana cost one less to recast is fantastic). Other options I have considered in this spot would be good ole PUTRID LEACH & MAYOR OF AVENBROOK. Both of which have their merits. In a heavy blue meta MAYOR could edeg out the other options. At the end of the day RECRUITER is a servicable 2 drop that fills the curve. 5/10
I have seen several suggestions on these foruns for anthems of various sorts. Frankly most are pretty awful and just punish overtending to get value. ABZAN ASCENDANCY, NISSA, and BEHIND THE SCENES are all pretty sub-par. If there is a desire to run one of these the best one of these options by far is CURSE OF PREDATION, as this one adds continual value and at least has the potential to run away with a game.
Lastly, is anyone still playing AVEN MINDCENSOR? I just can't seem to justify playing him much. So few tutors actually exist in this format atm, it basically only hates on fetch lands, which if an opponent has a fetch land in his opening hand, is using on the first or second turn; before MC is even online (and no, this deck is not passing on turn 2 with a mana dork up to cast him instead of ANA). I think the only relavent match where I really want him is vs TITANIA. Thoughts?
If I have missed something when evaluating these cards please let me know. I am open to suggestions.