He lifted the ancestral Dragonclaw overhead. He and the bear and the clan were one.
After a lot of testing, I'm finally ready to reveal this powerful deck. Most people's immediate thought on how to build Surrak would be uncounterable creatures.dec. However, I have found this deck to be much more viable in this format as a URg control with an awesome finisher. The deck works very well at what it's intended to do, and has a positive matchup against Geist, Daxos and Nin, upsetting some of the top dogs of the format. While this list has undergone a lot of testing against those 3 decks, I'm sure there are still cards I'm missing and cards that fare better in different metas and I look forward to your suggestions and comments.
This is a control deck. Your line of play is to control the early board, flash in Surrak, then counter anything that kills or outraces him. This is a tempo deck, and a great deal can be learned about this style of play from Emether's Wydwen Tempo deck. Here are a few general tips when playing the deck:
Don't counter the small things. Surrak outraces them.
We can deal with small creatures using our wraths. Geist, Clique, Nin, Marath, etc.
Cards like Pyroblast are insane against blue decks. When you draw them otherwise, you can loot them away.
These card choices will be illustrated in more detail in the future.
Change log
Having two mana dorks was awkward and they got hosed by my wraths, so they were cut. Dack is a good slot, because it filters away cards that aren't great against some matchups. For example, Pyroblast against a nonblue deck, or Spite of Mogis against a Geist in play.
I was playing a list that was close to this with more planes walkers. Thasa a
is good in the deck since Syrying every turn is good and making surrak unblockable is tech. I also had survival in my deck and mystic snake as a tutor able counter. The big problem with r he deck is it lacks board wipes and a solid way to deal with resolved threats outside of bouncing them and has a hard time catching up also prime speaker is nuts in this dexk.
Very interesting
some thoughts:
single arbor elves and BoP looks realy out of place in this deck. I would either play more mana accelerants or none at all.
You are playing faithless looting and some flashback spells, why not dack fayden?
Im also surprised tha you dont play cyclonic rift and cryptic command, pobably the two of the best blue commander spells
The two elves are a bit awkward... They're not consistent enough for the turn 4 Surrak, so I will probably just cut them. I'll slot Dack into one of those, and maybe C Rift in the other, but in all my days of playing both C Rift and Cryptic, I've never been happy to draw either of them.
I was playing a list that was close to this with more planes walkers. Thasa a
is good in the deck since Syrying every turn is good and making surrak unblockable is tech. I also had survival in my deck and mystic snake as a tutor able counter. The big problem with r he deck is it lacks board wipes and a solid way to deal with resolved threats outside of bouncing them and has a hard time catching up also prime speaker is nuts in this dexk.
Thassa seems sweet, and so does Prime Speaker. I will be testing both of those. Survival is not great because of the low creature count, and I think I like Venser > Glen Elendra > Mystic Snake in the order of counterspells on sticks, and I'm not even running Glen Elendra. I do have 3 "wraths" in this deck, and even though they're small, that means I only ever have to counter their big threats.
To be fair, out of all of those 3, Mystic Snake is the only 'true' counterspell. Venser only delays the spell, and creatures sneak by the Archmage (as well as it requires mana and telegraphs itself.)
The problem with just countering big threats is that the deck doesn't always have a counter in hand that works and there is still cavern of souls. This wouldn't be a big deal If rug had good removal like day or swords but there is only beast within and bounce spells for creatures with 4+ toughness. The only other option is to run domain Rade and use surrak as removal. I personally like survival in the deck but I also had 18 creatures and used it to find answers for the situation is was in I'm also thinking if trying to build the deck to be more midrange by adding in all the good ramp creatures who could also be used for survival and just leave in 2 mana counters and counters that draw cards
The problem with just countering big threats is that the deck doesn't always have a counter in hand that works and there is still cavern of souls. This wouldn't be a big deal If rug had good removal like day or swords but there is only beast within and bounce spells for creatures with 4+ toughness. The only other option is to run domain Rade and use surrak as removal. I personally like survival in the deck but I also had 18 creatures and used it to find answers for the situation is was in I'm also thinking if trying to build the deck to be more midrange by adding in all the good ramp creatures who could also be used for survival and just leave in 2 mana counters and counters that draw cards
@DigitalFire: Im always happy when I see cryptic command in Nin. It has 4 options how to play the card, I cant think of many situations when it isnt good. (ecept when its on your opening hand), but If you tested it in this deck and it didnt work then its easy conclusion
SOme additional thoughts:
Are those equipments worth it? They are obviously good cards but in deck with 11 creatures?
Did you try engineered explosives in this deck? Izzet staticaster is one card that helps me a lot vs creature decks, you might wanna try it.
I think you might be playing too many counters, wouldnt be worth to swap some of them for more spot removal and / or oblivion stone? (Because you cant counter all their spells)
About your "in construction"
Treachery is realy good.
Zegana seems a bit weird to me. I mean she is great but It does nothing without surrak in play, and then you probably dont want to tap out for creature but rather have free mana for counters.
I like savage knucleblade, early threat to put some pressure on them
Thanks for your comments Kriggy! The thing that makes Cryptic Command and Treachery tough to include is the mana cost. If they get countered, it's a major blowout for you because of the mana investment, isn't it? The 3 blue usually isn't a problem for me, but because the deck is three colors, it occasionally is.
You're probably right about the equipments. They're great if I have a creature out. They're a dead card when I don't. Engineered Explosives seems pretty cool if they have several things out to play up. Otherwise, it gets around Geist's hexproof. Absolutely worth testing to say for sure.
I actually tried Izzet Staticaster when my testing partner was playing Nin, but that a bit of meta-gaming. I have to play against more creature decks to evaluate this card better.
Instead of cutting counters for more removal, what if I cut them for a few more creature threats? Things like Savage Knuckleblade? In response to Khardock's comment, I listed a lot of removal I already run. Should I run more? Should I run more noncreature removal? Or should I run more threats? Thanks!
Wow savage Is really good. I like turn/burn in the deck but I feel like the deck will struggle against decks like Marith and thrun. Against control though this deck is amazing. Have you thought about sylvan catyard it has a good body for blocking creatures and taps for mana
Decimate has worked wonders and usually ends the game, and can be doubled with Chandra. I added hull breach & artifact mutation for added advantage. vandalblast seems good, but haven't tried it
put pressure or finish the game. I think I'm going to try ghor-clan rampager he's strong by himself or and can be pitched to Surrak for a 3 turn clock. Although It's expensive, I had to stick in mystic genesis, it's an absolute blowout if your opponent taps out for 4 or more & the trample it gains from Surrak makes it a real threat, same with the beast tokens from Garruk and the kraken tokens from Kiora
For big threats you could try chaos warp for removal, I prefer ratchet bomb as sometimes you may not have the mana for explosives, and you can keep your mana open during the oppponents turn. The new Sarkhan, the dragonspeaker maybe good too, he can hit when he comes down, and has removal attached.
I really like this deck it's fun and strong, keep updating everyone
This is pretty much the formula I've been using too, with the exception of Planeswalkers. Those seem like good finishers, and I've tried a few of them... I'll have to see if they work in my meta. Daxos makes planeswalkers hard to play.
Decimate has worked wonders and usually ends the game, and can be doubled with Chandra. I added hull breach & artifact mutation for added advantage. vandalblast seems good, but haven't tried it
How often does Decimate get stuck in your hand with missing targets? Have you ever had to blow up one of your permanents?
For big threats you could try chaos warp for removal, I prefer ratchet bomb as sometimes you may not have the mana for explosives, and you can keep your mana open during the oppponents turn. The new Sarkhan, the dragonspeaker maybe good too, he can hit when he comes down, and has removal attached.
You've given me a lot of good ideas for efficient threats. I've tested a few of them, and look forward to continue trying some more of these out. Thanks for your suggestions!
Okay so decimate is out for 1 vs 1. I read the ruling and you need 4 legitimate types on the field. I'll keep in my multiplayer version since it still is really good.
Also the new sarkhan might be out - he attacks, and then if they attack back he dies. best use I guess is come in removing first, then attack if you can. Temur charm doesn't seem so great, haven't tried it - but really mana intensive spell where your deck has to be clicking on all cylinders to work, and sometimes the tri-mana just doesn't come up. prohibit may be an option
I Keep having problems with ramping decks (Prossh & Mimeoplasm) The card quality is too good in these decks, and the ramp eventually helps them bypass the soft counters. Added mystic snake + Surrak = uncounterable counter and can be searched via worldly tutor. Thinking about scavenging ooze
I have to think that Volcanic Fallout or even Starstorm and Sulfurous Blast are better than Sudden Demise and Anger of the Gods in this deck. Tapping out to kill small ball creatures is just so bad in this deck. Your opponent is waiting for that kind of window and can take all kinds of advantage of it.
Also, I am surprised no Thirst for Knowledge in this deck. Cerebral Vortex is also not bad as an Instant Sign in Blood effect. While you excluded mana dorks, which I think is correct, missing your 5th mana source is still a really bad thing in this deck. With the (40?) land you've got in the deck, you could be worse off, but mathematically hitting that 5th land for any deck is not a very surefire proposition without draw. You've got the 3 1cmc filter spells in Blue, but it's hard to know how much land you'll need on Turn 5 when they play out Turn 1. It's also hard to hit land with Impulse and FoF. I am just missing a bit more volume out of your draw. Maybe Harrow could be under consideration? Pretty solid on those turns where you're on 3 and you have a counter at 2cmc. Nature's Lore and Three Visits also work the same way on those Turn 3's.
Another thing, have you considered Ohran Viper, or Sakura-Tribe Elder over Courser of Kruphix? I know Courser is tearing up Standard, but I have never been too hot on it. Viper seems likely to do the same thing the turn it is played, will usually get you at least one card, then might actually trade with something big or a removal spell later.
One last thing, I would not be above including Berserk in this deck. Even at times when it's somewhat dead, it can sometimes be used as a Vendetta on some utility creature that attacks you, and you've got enough filter to discard it a lot of the time anyway. But the main benefit would be that it shortens your clock by a turn or more when you do stick it for effect.
I agree that Ohran viper is really good, especially dropped early. Telling time might be a good option
Here are some changes that I ended up making
+ Sylvan Caryatid - can block, & survive sweepers [Budget Options: Utopia Tree & Wall of roots]
+ Werebear - (Starts off as a mana dork, as the game progresses, turns into an actual threat)
+ Dualcaster Mage - Versatile motherforker
+ Plaxmanta - Waste a spot removal, get a body
+ Scavenging ooze - life gain, grows, and gy hate. 2 counters and he's already a threat
The flash cards really let you gain advantage during your opponents turn. You either counter on their turn, or drop a creature that messes up their turn, and proceed to attack during your own.
I know it sounds silly but I have been messing around with a Biovisionary sub-theme in mine to take advantage of some of the cloning that U has been being seen in the decks. Sarrak is one weird beasty dude. Seems my WIP build is nothing more than "Gruul with U in it" right now so less finesse and more agro. Is that ok game plan?
Also thoughts on Mindswipe, Firemind's Foresight, Prophet of Kruphix?
The above cards are abit expensive for 1 vs. 1 - I use Prophet in my multiplayer version and mindswipe in my opinion is inferior
to suffocating blast. Suffocating blast WILL counter the spell and maybe kill a relevant creature. It's actually a good card but
the 3 damage must go to a creature, so sometimes it may backfire if your opponent has nothing on the board and you do. No need for the damage to opponent via mindswipe.
Yeah my deck is working like that too - dropping creatures and bashing, all the while protecting them with counterspells and drawing answers. This is easily the most fun EDH deck I've played 1 vs 1. I actually look forward to facing OP Commanders.
Note: against Prossh - get that izzet staticaster!!!
few updates (since everyone left Surrak out in the cold)
- Chandra, The Firebrand
+ Chandra, Pyromaster (Pings planeswalkers and small dudes, the unblockable is awesome. Preordain, Condescend, Ponder synergy)
- Mystic Retrieval
+ Bribery (Really helps against decks that ramp into big creatures- Prime targets Inferno and Primeval Titan, just good overall)
But this deck isn't a tempo deck. Also, Probe takes up the slot of a spell that might be more useful to the gameplan and it doesn't seem good enough for a control deck usually.
I am not shocked by probe, which is always a good card to have, but I think stiffle is bad. Sure, sometimes it will do good things like counter a fetch on the early turns, but most of the time later you just search for a target to it and it is generally just a bad counterspell. You'll stiffle a PW activation or something like that but it is not as good as removing the planeswalker or countering it.
I think the card is good in Geist since if you can't find a good target you can use it to keep the angel, but in other decks, appart if you're heavy on the parallax tide plan, it is only good 15-20% of the time. I can see a point for full tempo lists (Jenara, Thassa), but for a midrangey deck; I think you could use a better card for the slot
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Stifle is amazing here. Gaining the upper hand early game on mana is super strong when you are trying to control the game. Even after the game gets to 5~7 mana it's important to put a strain on their mana. Also there is Wasteland and family, the new Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. When you are trying to race them to 6+ mana to control the game with Surrak EOT and Wildfire, we need all the help we can get.
I loooooove this deck, its lame mtgo hasn't created separate rules for duel commander yet so you cant really jam against a competitive meta, but u still see a lot of ramp or control that you smash. The curve is a bit high but if you don't get over run early you just burry them in 241s and card draw and they have a hell of a time playing around your entire instant speed play, eat your heart out Teferi!
Yea yea yea yea I play online so I get the full suite of broken, forgot to change this. Again wotc needs to make this a proper format... Would love to play daze and stifle but they are dumb expensive online. No one has any interest of actual useful comments?
I've been playing this deck for a while now, and I have a version of it, that to date has not lost a match. I must be at least 20-0.
The deck is an aggro mid-range deck. I took out Savage Knuckleblade since he will get killed, and you've forfeited your 3rd turn. Clique and Bounding Krasis are better since they can be flashed in while still holding up counter-magic turn 3. Also I put in shambleshark. He is weak enough to not be targeted by spot removal but easily becomes 3/2 when you drop your next creature, and if he lasts will be 4/3 when Surrak is flashed in. If they kill him - so what, 1 less removal card for Surrak
Chain lightning, while a simple burn spell, has done wonders. Hits all the early commanders, any walker, and can reach. It was that 2nd powerful burn spell I was looking for since most others only deal 2 (Forked bolt etc) or hit creatures only (Flame slash). Some control decks are running only 1 creature - the commander, so we need a burn spells that can hit both. Which is also why I suggest your sweepers be able to deal direct damage to a player. Volcanic Fallout, Breath of Darigaaz, & Slagstorm are better than mizzium mortars and other 1 dimensional cards.
Now with Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt, Destructive Revelry, Slagstorm, Ral Zarek, Electrolyze, Fire/Ice, Volcanic fallout, and Turn/Burn there is enough burn to do 33% of the damage, along with snapcaster, eternal witness, and dualcaster mage, fetchlands, and shocklands - burning your opponent out is a viable option for this deck after a few solid attacks.
Dualcaster mage with 5 mana is house. You have counter protection, double Fire/ice to tap them down and draw 2 cards, Double lightning bolt and chain lightning for 6 damage. Double counter for Maelstrom Wanderer's cascades, Double hull breach for a whopping 4 artifacts and enchantments, double EOT into the roil, not to mention parity on your opponent's spells - which you can counter afterward.
Took out survival of the fittest and fauna shaman. Although they are good, they made the deck clunky. A simple worldly tutor does the trick while still letting the deck move forward smoothly.
Stifle I feel is a horrible card for this deck. There is nothing stifle does that chain Lightning or lightning bolt can't. The Wandering Bard has to be dealt with and stifle just delays him a turn. rather bolt it, drake it, or bounce it. No need to stifle a walker, just bolt it. Simic charm can protect you from wasteland and bounce a creature, while bolt can destroy a manland. Stifle is way too narrow. The point of this deck isn't to be cute- it really is the pentacle of efficient cards. You don't need to stifle Animar, either counter him or kill him - simple, if you're stifling Animar, you're missing the big picture. I even used squelch, interdict, and trickbind package. I was always looking for something to stifle but I feel this deck needs to make the opponent react from pressure, not the other way around. Now I just use voidslime.
@Chromatone - I don't see how your deck survives very aggressive decks such as Jenara, Geist, and Wandering Bard, but if you do - great. Your deck is awesome for multiplayer though. I'd Suggest Guided Passage for your deck as well as Signal the clans (Draining Welk, Mystic Snake, Venser). Disdainful Stroke, while a great counterspell can't counter another counter usually, which is why I don't use it in 1 vs 1. Vandalblast could be replaced with shattering spree, so you know you won't be countered, but that really is apples and oranges. I'd also take out Harrow, since if it's countered you lose a land automatically. personally I always counter harrow for that reason in early game situations. Bribery would make an excellent addition to your deck, while complicate and some other soft counters only make your deck worse. Temur charm is not better than dissolve or dissipate, although it is prettier. Temur charm is strict on mana and needs a creature (a big creature) to validate the 2nd and 3rd modes, while the 1st can be bypassed as the game drags on. Lat-nam's legacy is OK, and I love old cards, but the slow trip may come into play. You can impulse, ponder, and preordain during your turn to get that land drop, or find that counter or answer - Legacy you cannot. Try Telling time or anticipate
Here are some bullet points on beating strong meta generals
Yisan - Stop Yisan and you're good - Gilded drake, Bolt, Ral Zarek, Mind Harness, any bounce & counter. Then sweep the small critters away with pyroclasm type effects.
Geist - Counter Geist if you can, if not flash in a chump blocker on attack, plaxmanta works well here since he can't be targeted by removal after he flashes in. Sweepers work too, especially Volcanic fallout.
Tasigur - This one is tough, they don't do much except kill your creatures and counter. Scavenging ooze helps, as well as loaming shaman. You'll have to make incremental gains by attacking, watching your creature die, then casting and attacking again. planeswalkers that can produce creatures are your best bet, Garruk, Sarkhan Unbroken,& Xenagos, but landing any planeswalker against Tasigur is a great since they don't have much removal in that department.
Maelstrom Wanderer - Just destroy the artifact ramp to slow them down and keep attacking. Remember Wanderer cost 8 so do whatever you can to stop that, even fire/ice upkeep or Deceiver exarch when they have 7 mana.Once he comes out pray they weak cascade or counter the most powerful cascade. It's best to be aggressive, so by the time he hits, MAYBE you can reach with an attack and some burn
As for brutal expulsion - seems like Venser #2, which isn't bad but no board presence. The card seems to be at odds with itself.
The card from the new set that should probably go into every surrak deck though is Scatter to the winds
any questions or super secret tech on Surrak LMK, I'm very good with the deck
Chain Lightning against creature-less decks now becomes a burn spell for reach, and planeswalker insurance.
I use izzet staticaster, so combined it can equal 4 damage to a creature, or with izzet charm etc. Combining burn is ok too, but rather bounce or counter a big creature than burn it.
Dualcaster is supposed to be slow, at turn 5 Surrak and protecting him should be your priority so having a counterspell with dualcaster will give you protection AND a 2/2 body that's 14 damage, if unchecked.
You have to look at all your spells and see how they can all work with dualcaster. He's not as easy to use as
snapcaster. With Surrak he can't be countered so you will win any counter war with both out
Soft Counters are great, I use a ton of them in 1 vs. 1. That was just for Chromotone's deck - since his deck is a bit slower/multiplayer geared
Well, Scatter to the winds is better than dissipate. It really is cancel with a chance to be mystic snake.
and mystic snake is a lynchpin in this deck. Similar to Mystic Genesis, stealing advantage while giving you board presence. That's what this deck is all about. Also if your're running Raging Ravine or any man land, it just got a whole lot bigger with scatter, and will have trample with Surrak.
- Surrak on EOT 5
- Drop Land
- Attack for 6 (or more if you have other creatures)
- Scatter to the winds (awakened) on their turn when they try to remove Surrak or cast a relevant spell
- Attack for 9 (Surrak & Land) pass the turn with counter magic open, or drop a planeswalker since they will be tapped out
It's not uncommon for the deck to go
T1- Ponder, Preordain, Ancestral Vision, or Bolt their noble heirarch
T2- Memory Lapse or Shambleshark if they cast nothing
T3- Echoing truth - EOT Worldly Tutor into Mystic snake
T4- Mystic snake (Most likely they won't play anything because scared of snake)
T5 - Pass, EOT Surrak with Mystic Snake Back-up once you untap or Mystic snake their spell on their T5
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GUR Surrak Dragonclaw RUG
Art by Jaime Jones
He lifted the ancestral Dragonclaw overhead. He and the bear and the clan were one.
After a lot of testing, I'm finally ready to reveal this powerful deck. Most people's immediate thought on how to build Surrak would be uncounterable creatures.dec. However, I have found this deck to be much more viable in this format as a URg control with an awesome finisher. The deck works very well at what it's intended to do, and has a positive matchup against Geist, Daxos and Nin, upsetting some of the top dogs of the format. While this list has undergone a lot of testing against those 3 decks, I'm sure there are still cards I'm missing and cards that fare better in different metas and I look forward to your suggestions and comments.
Decklist
Creature
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Young Pyromancer
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Eternal Witness
3 Reclamation Sage
3 Savage Knuckleblade
3 True-Name Nemesis
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
5 Keranos, God of Storms
Sorcery
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Faithless Looting
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Spite of Mogis
1x Sudden Demise
2 Pyroclasm
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Deep Analysis
4 Mystic Retrieval
Instant
0 Daze
0 Force of Will
1 Brainstorm
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Stifle
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Worldly Tutor
1x Condescend
2 Delay
2 Fire // Ice
2 Impulse
2 Into the Roil
2 Izzet Charm
2 Mana Leak
2 Memory Lapse
2 Miscalculation
2 Muddle the Mixture
2 Negate
2 Remand
2 Rune Snag
2 Simic Charm
2 Think Twice
2 Turn // Burn
3 Electrolyze
3 Intuition
3 Temur Charm
4 Fact or Fiction
Enchantment
2 Sylvan Library
Artifact
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Planeswalker
3 Dack Fayden
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Ral Zarek
Land
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Wasteland
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Treetop Village
5 Island
3 Mountain
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Shivan Reef
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Flooded Grove
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Raging Ravine
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Frontier Bivouac
1 Mana Confluence
How to play
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Fire // Ice
1 Turn // Burn
1 Electrolyze
1 Ral Zarek
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Into the Roil
1 Hull Breach
1 Simic Charm
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Spite of Mogis
1 Psionic Blast
1 Treachery
1 Curse of the Swine
1 Reality Shift
1 Nature's Lore
1 Three Visits
Close
1 Harrow
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Sudden Demise
1 Pyroclasm
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Slagstorm
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Evacuation
1 Wildfire
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Daze
1 Force of Will
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Stifle
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Condescend
1 Counterspell
1 Delay
1 Izzet Charm
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Miscalculation
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Negate
1 Remand
1 Rune Snag
1 Temur Charm
1 Forbid
1 Force Spike
1 Dissolve
1 Complicate
1 Cryptic Command
1 Mental Misstep
1 Syncopate
1 Logic Knot
1 Trickbind
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Faithless Looting
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Brainstorm
1 Impulse
1 Deep Analysis
1 Mystic Retrieval
1 Think Twice
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Sylvan Library
1 Dack Fayden
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Dualcaster Mage
1 Serum Visions
1 Ohran Viper
1 Steam Augury
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Savage Knuckleblade
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Keranos, God of Storms
1 Spellheart Chimera
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Bribery
1 Primeval Titan
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Intuition
1 Signal the Clans
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Personal Tutor
Change log
Having two mana dorks was awkward and they got hosed by my wraths, so they were cut. Dack is a good slot, because it filters away cards that aren't great against some matchups. For example, Pyroblast against a nonblue deck, or Spite of Mogis against a Geist in play.
1 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Simic Charm
3 Dack Fayden
3 Savage Knuckleblade
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Potential Additions
0 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
2 Nature's Lore
2 Three Visits
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Signal the Clans
2 Survival of the Fittest
2 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Dualcaster Mage
3 Izzet Staticaster
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Slagstorm
3 Ohran Viper
4 Chandra, the Pyromaster
5 Bribery
5 Treachery
6 Primeval Titan
7 Treasure Cruise
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
is good in the deck since Syrying every turn is good and making surrak unblockable is tech. I also had survival in my deck and mystic snake as a tutor able counter. The big problem with r he deck is it lacks board wipes and a solid way to deal with resolved threats outside of bouncing them and has a hard time catching up also prime speaker is nuts in this dexk.
Thassa seems sweet, and so does Prime Speaker. I will be testing both of those. Survival is not great because of the low creature count, and I think I like Venser > Glen Elendra > Mystic Snake in the order of counterspells on sticks, and I'm not even running Glen Elendra. I do have 3 "wraths" in this deck, and even though they're small, that means I only ever have to counter their big threats.
Thanks for your suggestions! Will be testing Dack, Thassa, and Prime Speaker for now.
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
To be fair, out of all of those 3, Mystic Snake is the only 'true' counterspell. Venser only delays the spell, and creatures sneak by the Archmage (as well as it requires mana and telegraphs itself.)
Thanks for your comments Kriggy! The thing that makes Cryptic Command and Treachery tough to include is the mana cost. If they get countered, it's a major blowout for you because of the mana investment, isn't it? The 3 blue usually isn't a problem for me, but because the deck is three colors, it occasionally is.
You're probably right about the equipments. They're great if I have a creature out. They're a dead card when I don't.
Engineered Explosives seems pretty cool if they have several things out to play up. Otherwise, it gets around Geist's hexproof. Absolutely worth testing to say for sure.
I actually tried Izzet Staticaster when my testing partner was playing Nin, but that a bit of meta-gaming. I have to play against more creature decks to evaluate this card better.
Instead of cutting counters for more removal, what if I cut them for a few more creature threats? Things like Savage Knuckleblade? In response to Khardock's comment, I listed a lot of removal I already run. Should I run more? Should I run more noncreature removal? Or should I run more threats? Thanks!
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
1. Filter or counter
2. Counter or removal or filter
3. Strong / Utility creature
4. Planeswalker
5. Surrak
6-10. Finisher & control
I've been using Kiora, the crashing wave, Xenagos, the reveler, Garruk wildspeaker, Chandra, the firebrand, Ral Zarek, & Jace, the mind sculptor
Decimate has worked wonders and usually ends the game, and can be doubled with Chandra. I added hull breach & artifact mutation for added advantage. vandalblast seems good, but haven't tried it
gilded drake, fanatic of xenagos, stormbreath dragon, thundermaw hellkite, savage knuckleblade, trygon predator, izzet staticaster,
put pressure or finish the game. I think I'm going to try ghor-clan rampager he's strong by himself or and can be pitched to Surrak for a 3 turn clock. Although It's expensive, I had to stick in mystic genesis, it's an absolute blowout if your opponent taps out for 4 or more & the trample it gains from Surrak makes it a real threat, same with the beast tokens from Garruk and the kraken tokens from Kiora
For big threats you could try chaos warp for removal, I prefer ratchet bomb as sometimes you may not have the mana for explosives, and you can keep your mana open during the oppponents turn. The new Sarkhan, the dragonspeaker maybe good too, he can hit when he comes down, and has removal attached.
I really like this deck it's fun and strong, keep updating everyone
How often does Decimate get stuck in your hand with missing targets? Have you ever had to blow up one of your permanents?
You've given me a lot of good ideas for efficient threats. I've tested a few of them, and look forward to continue trying some more of these out. Thanks for your suggestions!
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]
Also the new sarkhan might be out - he attacks, and then if they attack back he dies. best use I guess is come in removing first, then attack if you can.
Temur charm doesn't seem so great, haven't tried it - but really mana intensive spell where your deck has to be clicking on all cylinders to work, and sometimes the tri-mana just doesn't come up. prohibit may be an option
I Keep having problems with ramping decks (Prossh & Mimeoplasm) The card quality is too good in these decks, and the ramp eventually helps them bypass the soft counters. Added mystic snake + Surrak = uncounterable counter and can be searched via worldly tutor. Thinking about scavenging ooze
What about punishing fire? we have grove of the burnwillows, if you pull off the combo great, if not oh well, just wait for a life gain opportunity. Seems good against Daxos. & slagstorm can work as a 2nd anger of the gods as well as volcanic fallout
I really like Surrak, so I'm trying to make him as strong as possible. Have you tried any of the swords?
Also, I am surprised no Thirst for Knowledge in this deck. Cerebral Vortex is also not bad as an Instant Sign in Blood effect. While you excluded mana dorks, which I think is correct, missing your 5th mana source is still a really bad thing in this deck. With the (40?) land you've got in the deck, you could be worse off, but mathematically hitting that 5th land for any deck is not a very surefire proposition without draw. You've got the 3 1cmc filter spells in Blue, but it's hard to know how much land you'll need on Turn 5 when they play out Turn 1. It's also hard to hit land with Impulse and FoF. I am just missing a bit more volume out of your draw. Maybe Harrow could be under consideration? Pretty solid on those turns where you're on 3 and you have a counter at 2cmc. Nature's Lore and Three Visits also work the same way on those Turn 3's.
Another thing, have you considered Ohran Viper, or Sakura-Tribe Elder over Courser of Kruphix? I know Courser is tearing up Standard, but I have never been too hot on it. Viper seems likely to do the same thing the turn it is played, will usually get you at least one card, then might actually trade with something big or a removal spell later.
One last thing, I would not be above including Berserk in this deck. Even at times when it's somewhat dead, it can sometimes be used as a Vendetta on some utility creature that attacks you, and you've got enough filter to discard it a lot of the time anyway. But the main benefit would be that it shortens your clock by a turn or more when you do stick it for effect.
Here are some changes that I ended up making
+ Sylvan Caryatid - can block, & survive sweepers [Budget Options: Utopia Tree & Wall of roots]
+ Werebear - (Starts off as a mana dork, as the game progresses, turns into an actual threat)
+ Dualcaster Mage - Versatile motherforker
+ Plaxmanta - Waste a spot removal, get a body
+ Scavenging ooze - life gain, grows, and gy hate. 2 counters and he's already a threat
+ Survival of the fittest - Find whatever you need, Plan B infinite combo
+ Deceiver Exarch - combat trick
+ Kiki-jiki, mirror breaker - combos with most cards, lock with mystic snake, ends game with Exarch
The flash cards really let you gain advantage during your opponents turn. You either counter on their turn, or drop a creature that messes up their turn, and proceed to attack during your own.
Some fringe cards I've been thinking about are Treasure Cruise, ghost-lit raider, and jilt
I know it sounds silly but I have been messing around with a Biovisionary sub-theme in mine to take advantage of some of the cloning that U has been being seen in the decks. Sarrak is one weird beasty dude. Seems my WIP build is nothing more than "Gruul with U in it" right now so less finesse and more agro. Is that ok game plan?
Also thoughts on Mindswipe, Firemind's Foresight, Prophet of Kruphix?
The above cards are abit expensive for 1 vs. 1 - I use Prophet in my multiplayer version and mindswipe in my opinion is inferior
to suffocating blast. Suffocating blast WILL counter the spell and maybe kill a relevant creature. It's actually a good card but
the 3 damage must go to a creature, so sometimes it may backfire if your opponent has nothing on the board and you do. No need for the damage to opponent via mindswipe.
Yeah my deck is working like that too - dropping creatures and bashing, all the while protecting them with counterspells and drawing answers. This is easily the most fun EDH deck I've played 1 vs 1. I actually look forward to facing OP Commanders.
Note: against Prossh - get that izzet staticaster!!!
few updates (since everyone left Surrak out in the cold)
- anger the gods
+ Mizzium mortars (Hit early target, overload for full sweep) [Breath of Darigaaz?]
+ Slagstorm (Hits opponents for reach, and planeswalkers)
- Chandra, The Firebrand
+ Chandra, Pyromaster (Pings planeswalkers and small dudes, the unblockable is awesome. Preordain, Condescend, Ponder synergy)
- Mystic Retrieval
+ Bribery (Really helps against decks that ramp into big creatures- Prime targets Inferno and Primeval Titan, just good overall)
- Forest
+ Skarrg, the Rage Pits (2nd Wolfrun, combat trick)
+ Karplusan Forest (Mana fixing)
Testing: Signal the Clans, Jilt, Psionic Blast, Flametongue Kavu, Rushing River
I think the card is good in Geist since if you can't find a good target you can use it to keep the angel, but in other decks, appart if you're heavy on the parallax tide plan, it is only good 15-20% of the time. I can see a point for full tempo lists (Jenara, Thassa), but for a midrangey deck; I think you could use a better card for the slot
Currently Playing:
Modern
Legacy:
Duel Commander:
Vintage
Against Animar, Soul of Elements you can fizzle the Ancestral Statue combo, or just make them discard a creature when they use Survival of the FIttest. Against Sidisi, Undead Vizier you can negate her Demonic Tutor-effect...
It's a good card, and it does a lot of work.
1 Draining Whelk
1 Mystic Snake
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Treachery
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
Planeswalkers [3]
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Spells [46]
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Brainstorm
1 Commandeer
1 Complicate
1 Counterspell
1 Cryptic Command
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Desertion
1 Dig Through Time
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dismiss
1 Electrolyze
1 Exclude
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Force of Will
1 Gather Specimens
1 Harrow
1 Impulse
1 Izzet Charm
1 Lat-Nam's Legacy
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Mana Drain
1 Mana Leak
1 Miscalculation
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Mystic Genesis
1 Negate
1 Opportunity
1 Overwhelming Intellect
1 Peek
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Prophetic Bolt
1 Pyroclasm
1 Remand
1 Rewind
1 Spelljack
1 Spell Snare
1 Sylvan Library
1 Temur Charm
1 Think Twice
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Vandalblast
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Breeding Pool
1 Command Tower
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Flooded Grove
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Frontier Bivouac
1 Hinterland Harbor
5 Island
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Maze of Ith
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Shivan Reef
1 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
1 Taiga
1 Temple of Epiphany
1 Temple of Mystery
1 Temple of the False God
1 Treetop Village
1 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vivid Creek
1 Volcanic Island
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Yavimaya Coast
1 Yavimaya Hollow
(+'.'+) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your profile to help him gain world domination.
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The deck is an aggro mid-range deck. I took out Savage Knuckleblade since he will get killed, and you've forfeited your 3rd turn. Clique and Bounding Krasis are better since they can be flashed in while still holding up counter-magic turn 3. Also I put in shambleshark. He is weak enough to not be targeted by spot removal but easily becomes 3/2 when you drop your next creature, and if he lasts will be 4/3 when Surrak is flashed in. If they kill him - so what, 1 less removal card for Surrak
Chain lightning, while a simple burn spell, has done wonders. Hits all the early commanders, any walker, and can reach. It was that 2nd powerful burn spell I was looking for since most others only deal 2 (Forked bolt etc) or hit creatures only (Flame slash). Some control decks are running only 1 creature - the commander, so we need a burn spells that can hit both. Which is also why I suggest your sweepers be able to deal direct damage to a player. Volcanic Fallout, Breath of Darigaaz, & Slagstorm are better than mizzium mortars and other 1 dimensional cards.
Now with Chain Lightning, Lightning Bolt, Destructive Revelry, Slagstorm, Ral Zarek, Electrolyze, Fire/Ice, Volcanic fallout, and Turn/Burn there is enough burn to do 33% of the damage, along with snapcaster, eternal witness, and dualcaster mage, fetchlands, and shocklands - burning your opponent out is a viable option for this deck after a few solid attacks.
Dualcaster mage with 5 mana is house. You have counter protection, double Fire/ice to tap them down and draw 2 cards, Double lightning bolt and chain lightning for 6 damage. Double counter for Maelstrom Wanderer's cascades, Double hull breach for a whopping 4 artifacts and enchantments, double EOT into the roil, not to mention parity on your opponent's spells - which you can counter afterward.
Took out survival of the fittest and fauna shaman. Although they are good, they made the deck clunky. A simple worldly tutor does the trick while still letting the deck move forward smoothly.
Stifle I feel is a horrible card for this deck. There is nothing stifle does that chain Lightning or lightning bolt can't. The Wandering Bard has to be dealt with and stifle just delays him a turn. rather bolt it, drake it, or bounce it. No need to stifle a walker, just bolt it. Simic charm can protect you from wasteland and bounce a creature, while bolt can destroy a manland. Stifle is way too narrow. The point of this deck isn't to be cute- it really is the pentacle of efficient cards. You don't need to stifle Animar, either counter him or kill him - simple, if you're stifling Animar, you're missing the big picture. I even used squelch, interdict, and trickbind package. I was always looking for something to stifle but I feel this deck needs to make the opponent react from pressure, not the other way around. Now I just use voidslime.
@Chromatone - I don't see how your deck survives very aggressive decks such as Jenara, Geist, and Wandering Bard, but if you do - great. Your deck is awesome for multiplayer though. I'd Suggest Guided Passage for your deck as well as Signal the clans (Draining Welk, Mystic Snake, Venser). Disdainful Stroke, while a great counterspell can't counter another counter usually, which is why I don't use it in 1 vs 1. Vandalblast could be replaced with shattering spree, so you know you won't be countered, but that really is apples and oranges. I'd also take out Harrow, since if it's countered you lose a land automatically. personally I always counter harrow for that reason in early game situations. Bribery would make an excellent addition to your deck, while complicate and some other soft counters only make your deck worse. Temur charm is not better than dissolve or dissipate, although it is prettier. Temur charm is strict on mana and needs a creature (a big creature) to validate the 2nd and 3rd modes, while the 1st can be bypassed as the game drags on. Lat-nam's legacy is OK, and I love old cards, but the slow trip may come into play. You can impulse, ponder, and preordain during your turn to get that land drop, or find that counter or answer - Legacy you cannot. Try Telling time or anticipate
Here are some bullet points on beating strong meta generals
Yisan - Stop Yisan and you're good - Gilded drake, Bolt, Ral Zarek, Mind Harness, any bounce & counter. Then sweep the small critters away with pyroclasm type effects.
Geist - Counter Geist if you can, if not flash in a chump blocker on attack, plaxmanta works well here since he can't be targeted by removal after he flashes in. Sweepers work too, especially Volcanic fallout.
Tasigur - This one is tough, they don't do much except kill your creatures and counter. Scavenging ooze helps, as well as loaming shaman. You'll have to make incremental gains by attacking, watching your creature die, then casting and attacking again. planeswalkers that can produce creatures are your best bet, Garruk, Sarkhan Unbroken,& Xenagos, but landing any planeswalker against Tasigur is a great since they don't have much removal in that department.
Maelstrom Wanderer - Just destroy the artifact ramp to slow them down and keep attacking. Remember Wanderer cost 8 so do whatever you can to stop that, even fire/ice upkeep or Deceiver exarch when they have 7 mana.Once he comes out pray they weak cascade or counter the most powerful cascade. It's best to be aggressive, so by the time he hits, MAYBE you can reach with an attack and some burn
As for brutal expulsion - seems like Venser #2, which isn't bad but no board presence. The card seems to be at odds with itself.
The card from the new set that should probably go into every surrak deck though is Scatter to the winds
any questions or super secret tech on Surrak LMK, I'm very good with the deck
I use izzet staticaster, so combined it can equal 4 damage to a creature, or with izzet charm etc. Combining burn is ok too, but rather bounce or counter a big creature than burn it.
Dualcaster is supposed to be slow, at turn 5 Surrak and protecting him should be your priority so having a counterspell with dualcaster will give you protection AND a 2/2 body that's 14 damage, if unchecked.
You have to look at all your spells and see how they can all work with dualcaster. He's not as easy to use as
snapcaster. With Surrak he can't be countered so you will win any counter war with both out
Soft Counters are great, I use a ton of them in 1 vs. 1. That was just for Chromotone's deck - since his deck is a bit slower/multiplayer geared
Well, Scatter to the winds is better than dissipate. It really is cancel with a chance to be mystic snake.
and mystic snake is a lynchpin in this deck. Similar to Mystic Genesis, stealing advantage while giving you board presence. That's what this deck is all about. Also if your're running Raging Ravine or any man land, it just got a whole lot bigger with scatter, and will have trample with Surrak.
- Surrak on EOT 5
- Drop Land
- Attack for 6 (or more if you have other creatures)
- Scatter to the winds (awakened) on their turn when they try to remove Surrak or cast a relevant spell
- Attack for 9 (Surrak & Land) pass the turn with counter magic open, or drop a planeswalker since they will be tapped out
It's not uncommon for the deck to go
T1- Ponder, Preordain, Ancestral Vision, or Bolt their noble heirarch
T2- Memory Lapse or Shambleshark if they cast nothing
T3- Echoing truth - EOT Worldly Tutor into Mystic snake
T4- Mystic snake (Most likely they won't play anything because scared of snake)
T5 - Pass, EOT Surrak with Mystic Snake Back-up once you untap or Mystic snake their spell on their T5