Grisel is a popular choice allthough I am not fond of it, as anytime you have something to send him you are typically better off sending either dragon or ooze to combo. Re-animator grenzo could work, its basically the good stuff build with fatties.
I've been testing these decks (this list) and got the feeling it need a lot more control over the overall game situation than it actually has. I don't like Griselbrand since you don't have any protection against Bribery. Rune-Scarred is maybe OK, Worldgoger is obviously fine.
How do you guys feel about Crystal Ball? I think it's an awesome card in Grenzo. Like, probably could be one of the best cards in the deck.
I don't run rune or grisel in any of my lists because having dragon or ooze combo is always better.
I am not fond of crystal at all, instead of scrying you could instead just be sinking that mana into grenzo, you would loose a grenzo use turn 3, and then again turn 4 if you used it, by the time it would start being helpful you have lost to much tempo for it to be worth it.
Treasonous and Intent are very solid and I have been considering them both for awhile but as of yet am undecided or cant figure out what to take out.
Helm is a bit costly as the decks you struggle against are also producing there big threats by turn three, like animar and yissan. I prefer the cheap and or mass removal I am running.
Very strong deck, couldn't beat it at all with my Saffi combo deck. How does it fare against the Anafenza matchup? Seems like anafenza and containment priest would shut it down pretty hard.
Not at all actually, grenzos ability tracks zones, so anafenza does not even phase the deck. Grenzo cheats things in right past Anafenza. Only grafdiggers cage, and wheel can stop grenzo.
Containment priest is obnoxious but I pack a pretty decent amount of creature removal, and most of my creatures are perfectly good to hard cast.
Playing with the deck, I feel randomly activating Grenzo doesn't produce value all the time. A lot of times, early in the game, I'd rather use that mana to do something. Crystal Ball helps not only to hit with Grenzo, but to filter your draws into useful things. I'm at the very least testing it.
I played against DeathsAdvocate today with my 5 color planeswalker deck on Cockatrice and thoroughly enjoyed losing to this combo. Very clever -- never seen anything like it. Keep up the good work! Hopefully we can play again some time.
I'm seriously considering building this deck, but it seems real soft to the control deck du jour, Narset. I know at least 3 players who have a Narset deck who regularly play events with it. It would obviously be bad to build a deck that's weak to a large part of my meta, so I was wondering if the matchup is as bad as I think?
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Duel Commander enthusiast. Currently playing Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and Tasigur, the Golden Fang.
I don't think it struggles against control very much at all, a heavy discard suite and tech like defense grid, combined with the fact that grenzo is hard to keep off the field and sneaks value in right past blue makes it do well. If you are really concerned about control decks the goodstuff variant does even better job with them.
Here's the version I have sleeved up in real life (Grim Tutor is currently Dystopia, Goblin Settlers is currently Petravark). Goodstuff can even up the creature count to 40 from 36, meaning 37 flippable with power 2.
@Deaths: I'm considering cutting the red fetches, meaning Arid Mesa, Wooded Foothills and Scalding Tarn. I would rather have a basic or dual than be forced to shuffle my library to find a mana source and ruin the bottom-deck after I've played a Surging Flame, scry or hideaway effect.
I like them for that exact reason, so that you can shuffle your library after a surging and sending no creatures. Also the deck thinning is as always invaluable, and of course gives you access to duals. I have yet to come into a situation where I am forced to shuffle a bottom card I wanted there, the deck runs on so little mana, and usually uses its fetch/bottom stuff very early.
so with the recent ban hammer, on our entomb, what you guys think? take out entomb and the dragon? or just the entomb and replace it with i donno, tutor or draws?
Even without entomb dragon is still crucial for a whole host of combos. I doubt sdt will make it in place as grenzo is the mana sink. Unless stax becomes an issue I wont play crucible. Entomb can just be replaced by land or something from the maybe board.
One word Buried Alive, you tutor that one card +any of the the reanimation including ooze which is multipurpose in the deck, it is actually the most used, and safest combo in the deck regularly going off on turn four. Also triskelion/devouerer are both good flips with grenzos ability.
Augermage is pretty awful, he its your own hand which is really bad in a combo deck, and he lacks haste/etb.
Anytime you have an extra two mana, and don't have a combo/tutor in hand you want to be using grenzos ability. Draw is almost never as valuable as doing that. Braids comes out with grenzos ability and can win games all by her self, using grenzo to bring her in, and then using grenzo to just generate new drops constantly to sacrifice to her has won me many a game. She is a win condition all by her self, given she is not used often, but when she comes out its always valuable. And if you do want draw power you should try to get in with creatures not spells that way it has synergy with grenzo.
If you want a dedicated combo version of the deck that includes sign in blood and the like, check the spoiler for the third variant.
What a great thread. I just recently built my first EDH deck with Grenzo. I played tonight and stumbled onto heartstone and then nightscape familiar. Does this combo so that grenzo's ability is free? Gatherer states that nightscape familiar can reduce the casting cost to zero. Any help would be appreciated.
Hey guys! I'm looking to start building this deck sometime in the near future. I want to preface this by saying I will not have Imperial Recruiter or Grim Tutor. I know they cannot be truly replaced. I only would like to know, assuming they are not available, what are the best budget (~$30 or less but not a hard limit) options in their place? I wouldn't be surprised if that's been discussed already in this thread, I haven't read it yet, honestly (at work!); I'll definitely do that at some point tonight!
See my spoiler tag in the op for a budget/goodstuff deck.
Cathodon is a no go, you want creatures with two powr or less.
Ashnods can be very powerful if your runing a high creature count foodstuff. Soldevi is meh but not bad.
Vancouver mull did good and bad things for the deck, a free scry with grenzo can be powerful, but at the same time the deck was reliant on aggressively mulling out all creatures from hand for land or combo pieces. Lately I really felt the land hurt so I decided to cut a few less used things for a couple extra lands, including entomb due to its banning. The loss of entomb has slowed down the decks clock by a full turn in many situations, a painful ban, but not devastating as the deck is good at surviving at any point in the game.
I know I argued that Oblivion Stone should stay, and up until vancouver I really felt it was the way, but vancouver hurts the mana in this deck and stone was a little pricey for what it does without reliably having lots of land. It may make its way back in if I really miss it.
Lately I have just been playing the goodstuff version anyways since its what I could afford in real life and it is better for multiplayer which is a lot of my irl games, so my testing of the core deck is lacking with entomb gone and vancouver.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
How do you guys feel about Crystal Ball? I think it's an awesome card in Grenzo. Like, probably could be one of the best cards in the deck.
Also, I've seen people suggest Treasonous Ogre and Diabolic Intent seem pretty great. I'd also think about Helm of Possession.
I am not fond of crystal at all, instead of scrying you could instead just be sinking that mana into grenzo, you would loose a grenzo use turn 3, and then again turn 4 if you used it, by the time it would start being helpful you have lost to much tempo for it to be worth it.
Treasonous and Intent are very solid and I have been considering them both for awhile but as of yet am undecided or cant figure out what to take out.
Helm is a bit costly as the decks you struggle against are also producing there big threats by turn three, like animar and yissan. I prefer the cheap and or mass removal I am running.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
Containment priest is obnoxious but I pack a pretty decent amount of creature removal, and most of my creatures are perfectly good to hard cast.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
I also include discussions about cards we took out, cards we banned, and cards we might add.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
Is there a sample decklist for the "goodstuff" variant? I assume it's less combo focussed, but what does it cut to make room for more creatures?
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
@Deaths: I'm considering cutting the red fetches, meaning Arid Mesa, Wooded Foothills and Scalding Tarn. I would rather have a basic or dual than be forced to shuffle my library to find a mana source and ruin the bottom-deck after I've played a Surging Flame, scry or hideaway effect.
1 Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
Creatures (36, 33 flippable with power 2)
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Feldon of the Third Path
1 Brain Maggot
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Entomber Exarch
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Triskelion
1 Necrotic Ooze
1 Phyrexian Devourer
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Priest of Gix
1 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Dark Confidant
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Griselbrand
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Shimian Specter
1 Sadistic Hypnotist
1 Disciple of Phenax
1 Goblin Settler
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Herald of Leshrac
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Hypnotic Specter
1 Workhorse
1 Moggcatcher
1 Sparksmith
1 Chittering Rats
1 Ravenous Baboons
1 Body Snatcher
1 Manic Vandal
1 Mad Auntie
1 Soldevi Adnate
1 Howltooth Hollow
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Blood Crypt
1 Badlands
3 Snow-Covered Mountain
9 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Arid Mesa
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Temple of Malice
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Wasteland
1 Command Tower
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Tainted Peak
1 City of Brass
1 Mana Confluence
1 Graven Cairns
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Rakdos Carnarium
Other spells (25)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Thoughtseize
1 Doomsday
1 Unmask
1 Necromancy
1 Buried Alive
1 Animate Dead
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Faithless Looting
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Entomb
1 Reanimate
1 Dismember
1 Chrome Mox
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Fire Covenant
1 Duress
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Grim Tutor
1 Gamble
1 Snuff Out
1 Surging Flame
1 Dread Return
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
Augermage is pretty awful, he its your own hand which is really bad in a combo deck, and he lacks haste/etb.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
If you want a dedicated combo version of the deck that includes sign in blood and the like, check the spoiler for the third variant.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
Cathodon is a no go, you want creatures with two powr or less.
Ashnods can be very powerful if your runing a high creature count foodstuff. Soldevi is meh but not bad.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira
I know I argued that Oblivion Stone should stay, and up until vancouver I really felt it was the way, but vancouver hurts the mana in this deck and stone was a little pricey for what it does without reliably having lots of land. It may make its way back in if I really miss it.
Lately I have just been playing the goodstuff version anyways since its what I could afford in real life and it is better for multiplayer which is a lot of my irl games, so my testing of the core deck is lacking with entomb gone and vancouver.
Decks:
Grenzo
Jalira
Talrasha's Doom
Lazav's not here
Eldrazi Bookkeeper
"I shall pass."
Doom Warden
Jalira