Also what role does Garruk Relentless play? Was wondering if your main goal is to flip him or is it just the tokens.
I'm still not playing Garruk Relentless, but it seems that it's main role is the production of crits and removal for small crits, if it gets to flip it's a beast! It looks like it's a card you have to have experience with to use it effectively.
Garruk Relentless is mostly just to constantly dump out tokens which can eventually win on their own. He also evades board wipes and can repopulate your board afterwards. Being able to punch utility guys like dark confidant is very handy as well.
The main reason to play garruk relentless is to have more outs to animar. He's also quite good against liliana of the veil and maze of ith which are typically hard to deal with. Finally he's a good way to apply pressure against wrath-heavy decks, like oloro and GAA. If animar wasn't legal, I would probably look for better cards to play in that slot though.
He is not good against marath where the best you can do is trading with a mana elf and gain 2 life, or against geist where he is to easily dealt with.
In most matches he's all right, not great but not awful either (a bit like bitterblossom). When flipped, the -1 ability is much more useful than the +1.
Nice insight on Garruk R, I personally don't know those things.
The only reason I don't use Garruk R is that I'm loving Teeg and I don't want to up the number of dead cards when he's in play.
If I have Ravages of War, I think I'll remove Teeg and add Garruk R and Elspeth 1.0, because they help against the control mu.
Talked to a friend piloting Doran last time, he removed Arbor Elf for Blackmail. What do you guys think?
His reasoning is sound. There were times when Arbor Elf is just meh because you don't have any forest anymore.
And Blackmail is another disruption that can remove a land.
The downsides: losing a body might affect the consistency of crits, 1 damage matters!
And too much discard might be too much.
I agree that arbor elf is cuttable, he is definitely one of the worse mana elves. I still play him cause I want to maximize my chances of having 3 manas t2 but he is sometimes awkward indeed.
I don't like very much blackmail though. For me its a real problem that you can't discard what you truly want as soon as the opponent has 4+ cards in hand. Also not seeing all the cards means even if you made your opponent discard, you're still playing around some cards, which I think is not a good place to be. The whole point of playing targeted discard is, besides the disruption, to be able to maximize your hand. A known negate or force spike is a lot worse than an unknown one. I may be wrong, because blackmail is slightly better than other discard spells when the opponent has few cards in hand, or when all cards in my opponent's hand have equal value. But I like my discard spells to be good against control and combo, and blackmail is not good against either of them.
I would advise playing a land instead of arbor elf, especially if your land count is already low. But m15 has ulcerate which seems worth testing, so I like trying this in that slot also.
Catac turn 3, after Doran, was one of the best plays we could do. Ravages is a must now, imo, but will not replace Catac. At least this ban tune down lots of decks, like geist. Nether Void is an good option, i think, the problem its the price of the card.
Catac turn 3, after Doran, was one of the best plays we could do. Ravages is a must now, imo, but will not replace Catac. At least this ban tune down lots of decks, like geist. Nether Void is an good option, i think, the problem its the price of the card.
True that. The prices of those cards are really overwhelming, I for one cannot really afford it.
I'm thinking of using Toxic Deluge and Small Pox again, and even considering Diabolic Intent for additional tutor for Armageddon.
Hokori is another card to consider but it's very conditional. MWanderer and Prossh uses rocks, Marath has dorks, so it's not great with those MU, which I think will be more prevalent now.
Aggro will be back, so we should consider that specially elves.
Catac turn 3, after Doran, was one of the best plays we could do. Ravages is a must now, imo, but will not replace Catac. At least this ban tune down lots of decks, like geist. Nether Void is an good option, i think, the problem its the price of the card.
True that. The prices of those cards are really overwhelming, I for one cannot really afford it.
I'm thinking of using Toxic Deluge and Small Pox again, and even considering Diabolic Intent for additional tutor for Armageddon.
Hokori is another card to consider but it's very conditional. MWanderer and Prossh uses rocks, Marath has dorks, so it's not great with those MU, which I think will be more prevalent now.
Aggro will be back, so we should consider that specially elves.
Nice, smallpox its an option. I already use sinkhole too. Toxic Deluge its by far our best removal. I bought my ravages many years ago, so i got it for an "good" price, it really strong to play 2 armaggedon on the deck. But catac left an big hole, i can't imagine an substitute to it. I tested hokori some time ago but, as you said, he is very conditional. In some matches its kind of auto win, but in others its a dead card and a very bad top deck. I really, really hope to Doran players keep playing him and not give up because the ban of Catac. I remember Karador, after protean and loyal. Well, on the good side, is for the healthier meta :).
After the recent banning, I was thinking of what to do with the deck: push disruption or add more aggro threats.
And because of the loss of Catac I think ramp will be harder to fight so I pushed towards disruption that's why I added Worldly Tutor for a faster Braids. Well it happened last tourney and I think Worldly just sits fine.
So then I realized the deck's true nature. Pure disruption.
About Toxic Deluge, I've yet to see it in action. I've drawn it last tourney against Jenara, but I'm already way ahead with my board at that time.
I'm still expecting Marath going rampant here in our meta, and still hopes to evade Animar again.
The main problem with Deluge is that it's truly a panic button. But with the absence of Catac, the deck needs a mass removal.
The list is good against other aggro because of Doran alone. Deluge ensures killing opposing smaller crits if you need to push through with Doran, but also killing your smaller crits in the process. So it's still a situational card in this deck.
Deluge is great against marath, animar and they are the hardest generals to beat. It is also very good in the mirror and against geist. In other matchups it varies a lot and its truly bad against wanderer.
For me the loss of cataclysm is really hard for the deck to recover. It was a weapon of choice against ramp and combo decks, and one of the best cards against marath. All of a sudden ramp match-up become tougher to beat and they are a large part of the meta, I doubt Doran is still very good in here.
Also removing threats the deck become weak against control like griselbrand or GAA, and adding threats means probably adding pod with toolbox and I dont see the point of still playing Doran instead of just switching for Marath.
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Duel Commander: Marath, Will of the Wild
Tiny Leaders: Zo-Zu the Punisher
Modern: Burn, liege Rhino, and Zoo
Legacy: Zombardment
Duel Commander: Marath, Will of the Wild
Tiny Leaders: Zo-Zu the Punisher
Modern: Burn, liege Rhino, and Zoo
Legacy: Zombardment
Soon I'll be updating the main decklist posted, and will make a changelog part.
I'm still not playing Garruk Relentless, but it seems that it's main role is the production of crits and removal for small crits, if it gets to flip it's a beast! It looks like it's a card you have to have experience with to use it effectively.
Happy reading!!!
Duel Commander: Marath, Will of the Wild
Tiny Leaders: Zo-Zu the Punisher
Modern: Burn, liege Rhino, and Zoo
Legacy: Zombardment
Also made a change log section with not-so-extensive explanations haha.
BBB Two Hundred Zombies BBB
Duel Commander
WR Tajic, Wrath of the Manlands RW
BGW Doran Destruction WGB
Commander
GUB Mimeoplasm, Screw Politics BUG
BR Mogis, God of Slaughter RB
RGW Marath, Ramp and Removal WGR
WUBRG Karona, Jank God GRBUW
He is not good against marath where the best you can do is trading with a mana elf and gain 2 life, or against geist where he is to easily dealt with.
In most matches he's all right, not great but not awful either (a bit like bitterblossom). When flipped, the -1 ability is much more useful than the +1.
The only reason I don't use Garruk R is that I'm loving Teeg and I don't want to up the number of dead cards when he's in play.
If I have Ravages of War, I think I'll remove Teeg and add Garruk R and Elspeth 1.0, because they help against the control mu.
His reasoning is sound. There were times when Arbor Elf is just meh because you don't have any forest anymore.
And Blackmail is another disruption that can remove a land.
The downsides: losing a body might affect the consistency of crits, 1 damage matters!
And too much discard might be too much.
I don't like very much blackmail though. For me its a real problem that you can't discard what you truly want as soon as the opponent has 4+ cards in hand. Also not seeing all the cards means even if you made your opponent discard, you're still playing around some cards, which I think is not a good place to be. The whole point of playing targeted discard is, besides the disruption, to be able to maximize your hand. A known negate or force spike is a lot worse than an unknown one. I may be wrong, because blackmail is slightly better than other discard spells when the opponent has few cards in hand, or when all cards in my opponent's hand have equal value. But I like my discard spells to be good against control and combo, and blackmail is not good against either of them.
I would advise playing a land instead of arbor elf, especially if your land count is already low. But m15 has ulcerate which seems worth testing, so I like trying this in that slot also.
I'll test other cards for the Arbor Elf slot, and will consider the meta for replacement, if reanimator is still prevalent, I might even use Cremate.
Ulcerate looks good, but it can't kill big guys without using it as a combat trick, but still test play it please.
Duel Commander: Marath, Will of the Wild
Tiny Leaders: Zo-Zu the Punisher
Modern: Burn, liege Rhino, and Zoo
Legacy: Zombardment
But I think it's for the better, a healthier meta. If only Ravages of War is affordable.
Anyways, Marath, Wanderer, Geist and Grand Arbiter will be back in the meta here
Still thinking on what to replace Catac...
True that. The prices of those cards are really overwhelming, I for one cannot really afford it.
I'm thinking of using Toxic Deluge and Small Pox again, and even considering Diabolic Intent for additional tutor for Armageddon.
Hokori is another card to consider but it's very conditional. MWanderer and Prossh uses rocks, Marath has dorks, so it's not great with those MU, which I think will be more prevalent now.
Aggro will be back, so we should consider that specially elves.
Nice, smallpox its an option. I already use sinkhole too. Toxic Deluge its by far our best removal. I bought my ravages many years ago, so i got it for an "good" price, it really strong to play 2 armaggedon on the deck. But catac left an big hole, i can't imagine an substitute to it. I tested hokori some time ago but, as you said, he is very conditional. In some matches its kind of auto win, but in others its a dead card and a very bad top deck. I really, really hope to Doran players keep playing him and not give up because the ban of Catac. I remember Karador, after protean and loyal. Well, on the good side, is for the healthier meta :).
I hope I'll find the new cards to add soon
There we're only 11 of us.
Working on the tourney report.
And finally I got my hands on Bloodstained Mire! Goodbye Gemstone Mine.
And because of the loss of Catac I think ramp will be harder to fight so I pushed towards disruption that's why I added Worldly Tutor for a faster Braids. Well it happened last tourney and I think Worldly just sits fine.
So then I realized the deck's true nature. Pure disruption.
About Toxic Deluge, I've yet to see it in action. I've drawn it last tourney against Jenara, but I'm already way ahead with my board at that time.
I'm still expecting Marath going rampant here in our meta, and still hopes to evade Animar again.
Next tourney here will be this coming Sunday.
Modern
No clue
RIP Twin
MTGS Olde Name:
Hruen (apparently it was taken, probably by me about 10 years ago.........)
The list is good against other aggro because of Doran alone. Deluge ensures killing opposing smaller crits if you need to push through with Doran, but also killing your smaller crits in the process. So it's still a situational card in this deck.
For me the loss of cataclysm is really hard for the deck to recover. It was a weapon of choice against ramp and combo decks, and one of the best cards against marath. All of a sudden ramp match-up become tougher to beat and they are a large part of the meta, I doubt Doran is still very good in here.
Also removing threats the deck become weak against control like griselbrand or GAA, and adding threats means probably adding pod with toolbox and I dont see the point of still playing Doran instead of just switching for Marath.