MTG Salvation

I think the other reason you might be feeling the need for it so drastically is because of your current mana base, i think it has the potential to be a bit better.

It does. I'm still tweaking it.

I've tested, watched and faced asimov's list (most recent is last night against my Athreos) and it's "good, decent, great."

White variant has more room for improvement.

Everything you've said makes sense. But consider this; The point of the Drum is to replace Chrome Mox, as Asimov mentioned, sometimes you don't have something to pitch to the Mox (thus making it just as much a blank as the Drum is illustrated as in your example). Both cards suffer from the same inherent problem of the colour combination - lack of card advantage - but Chrome hurts even moreso by costing us two cards in order to use (Mox + imprinted) versus just the one (Drum itself). With an opening hand including Mox, and something you want to imprint, you have five cards to "beat your opponent with" as you put - is that enough? How many of those were lands? Do you even have a sensible curve made up of those five cards?

In your example above, say you play your Guide < Mauler then get Fiend Hunter'd opening. You still don't have an attack here (2/2 vs 1/3, plus chance of giving them a card) so while they're at 26 right now, this Drum can let you play the Iroas (or some other four drop) on t3 (using the G-Guide that doesn't have an attack this turn anyway). Then you can resume your plan next turn unless A) Opponent plays a guy and chumps your one-drop with two guys (a deal I'm probably okay with all things considered) or B) He plays Supreme Verdict (which is terrible right now) to kill your guy, his Hunter (giving you Mauler back) and now you can play something with soulbonded haste (Silverblade or Hobgoblin sounds good here).

This is comparable to using the Mox, except that is one less card in hand. That's why Springleaf is a good suggestion here - the opportunity cost is low and the deck is still playing the same ratio of threats, burns, and removals anyway; it's just a replacement over the [seemingly] under-performing Moxen.

I'm going to agree with HipsterWhale here, Springleaf Drum just isn't good enough. Here are my reasons:

A) It potentially does nothing or just doesn't do enough to be worth a card. This deck (at least the lists that have been posted) is primarily 2-4 drops. Is getting your 4 drop out a turn faster actually better than just having another 2 or 3 drop in hand? Is is actually better than just having a land in its place? All you getting is 1 extra attack out of a creature by ramping by 1 mana. That one extra attack will not often be better than getting several attacks out of an extra creature. This deck is modeling Boros decks we have seen in past Constructed formats. None of those Boros decks played mana ramp and its for the same reasons.

B) Getting Iroas out faster (like on T3) isn't actually very useful. A T3 Iroas will NEVER be a creature and will probably not be a creature the next turn either. This decks preferred strategy would be T1 dude, T2 dude, T3 dude and on turn 4 or 5 once they finally got a blocker down, or you have played out enough threats, you drop Iroas and keep swinging.

C) While its a small thing, Drum gives no devotion. I don't think playing cards that aren't lands that give zero devotion is generally good, unless they'r power-level is soo high that you can make up for that loss (AKA Jitte, skullclamp, swords).


As an added note, I think the White-based version of Iroas offers much more potential. RW decks uof the past took the efficient creatures of white and combined them with the reach and burn of red. I think the same philosophy should apply. Creatures like Hero of Bladehold, Brimaz, Mirran Crusader, Mother of Runes, Accorder Paladin, etc. will be able to dish out more damage than their red counterparts. Obviously red cards are still good, but I'm note sure about the merits of playing Vulshok Sorcerer over Brimaz...

Also, I think battlecry type effects (+X/0) are especially good in this deck, as Iroas effectively negates any downsides of attacking with X/1 creatures.

There's some very solid arguments for both sides of the coin here. I think, what we need now is some statistical game experience to close the door on Drum. One way, or the other.

Well, it's fun to test it. Sadly, I have to redo my mana roster again... I guess manlands aren't helping me... and manaflood/manascrew messed me up. Well tbh, my white version isn't agreeing with me and it's extra annoying when Clique counters it. Red can definitely run her over.

Other decks can do fine (truthfully, they're not fully optimized).


@asimov: In your games, have you find some weakness with red against other decks?

Quote from asimov

I also like the new 2/1 in red.

Yeah, I saw that guy last night. He's exciting. I'll need to pick him up on modo.

Quote from asimov

I also like the new 2/1 in red.

I've tested Sigiled Skink. Pretty much it's performed better than I expected because I get to avoid drawing pricy or unnecessary card. Definitely a keeper in my deck.

I didn't noticed that Limited Resources is a 1 drop. Worth testing it.

Oring and Enlightened tutor really helps with the deck. Hoped that you have fun with them.

How's the Cyclops performing?

I'm curious why you're not running Flagstones of Trokair?

Aurelia's Fury is a great card, but why the Devil's Play? Are you commonly finding yourself with an abundance of excess mana and using that as a mana sink?


Also why did you cut Lightning Helix, Chain Lightning, & Char? Price of Progress? I don't get why you'd take out your reach, especially when they double as removal (I want to play a version using Satyr Firedancer and more burn, will try that with Lyzolda though).

I think you can still play Bonesplitter. Black Vise?

Thalia is in my deck and she's awesome against some slow control decks. Bit nifty if you have swords with her.
I've seen people using Accorder Paladin... it's ok-ish but bit mana friendly than Goblin Wardriver but downer on the devotion count. That's one of the reason I'm leaning a bit more to W (although you do have some good red cards in your previous version)
Leonin Arbiter is an iffy card. For most of the time, it's a decent 2/2 bear. Avenmindcensor has a more impact imo.
Hero of Oxid Ridge is a card that used to be in my deck but haven't got a positive feedback on it because I haven't draw him during my early games.
Spirit of Labyrinth is another 50/50 card for me. Haven't draw her so I can't really conclude it. Although I've seen her getting countered or kill asap when other Iroas players (or other white decks) were using her.
Seal of Cleansing this card is insane.
Banishing Light, Devil's Play, Aurelia's Fury : Hoped that you give us some insight about that card.

Hoped that you also give us some insight on your previous version

Quote from asimov

i'm trying new changes:

+ Mindsparker
+ Sunhome Guildmage
+ Cyclops Gladiator
+ Limited Resources
+ Genju of the Spires
+ Oblivion Ring
+ Enlightened Tutor


http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/showdeck?ref=380768&decklanglocal=eng

I'd suggest adding Reveillark. At least he can do something about a Wrath or removal.

@asimov: Have you tested your deck against Griselbrand or anything with sweepers after you overextend? I'm curious how you deal with it after your guys die.

Fun realization: I swing with Prophetic Flamespeaker that I respond by using Enlightened Tutor (which I didn't realized that I never got Nevermore in my deck) for Oblivion Ring by turn 4 against Griselbrand.

I have to test Leonin Arbiter again. Having him out on turn 2 is annoying when it comes to tutor format.

Limited Resources is awesome... I haven't draw Arbiter however I'm testing Kataki, War's Wage.

Blasphemy! The Half-Bull-Centaur god will trample you for those heinous words! I'm still testing mine online and it's still an annoying deck to play with (until you've faced someone with Polymorph).

Few questions:

• How's Spirit of the Labyrinth performing for you? I always get her and Skullclamp together that I never get to utilized either of them... ooorrr deciding which one to drop on a very important turn.
• You have Plated Geopede in your old list... How's a 1/1 FS doing?
• Has the Cyclops been good to you?

Quote from Ikaoru

Blasphemy! The Half-Bull-Centaur god will trample you for those heinous words! I'm still testing mine online and it's still an annoying deck to play with (until you've faced someone with Polymorph).

Few questions:

• How's Spirit of the Labyrinth performing for you? I always get her and Skullclamp together that I never get to utilized either of them... ooorrr deciding which one to drop on a very important turn.
• You have Plated Geopede in your old list... How's a 1/1 FS doing?
• Has the Cyclops been good to you?

I took the idea for his Red slant white and applied the same principle to Lyzolda. The Geopede is a fine two-dropper, in this deck if slanting Red. You can bash for five on t3 with a fetchland, which isn't to be taken lightly. I play Jitte in mine too, so the first strike is an extra bonus with Jitte.

I can't comment on the Cyclops though since as I am in Rb, Olivia has that four drop slot covered instead.

That's interesting. Not sure how effective it is coming from a perspective side.

Although, having FS is a nifty tech with Jitte. Might test it on my White version

Well, his deck is more leaning to red so he doesn't have any problem going to RRR on turn 4.

Yeah. I don't doubt the ability of mine to resolve Cyclops. I meant I don't play him because I can play Olivia, whom I feel is leagues above him.

For color-wise, yes.

But for Cyclops, I'm curios how effective it is.

Here's my updated Iroas list. I haven't got to draw Geopede in my previous games.

Been playing the same deck. I haven't got the chance to add new cards.

Turn 2 Kataki however, is my bff on Arcum or even MW!

Huh... good question. Asimov is using R so it's understandable... I should've use that hound instead.

Skink is doing well in my deck. In my experienced, Boros seems to lack some top deck control (too much land or unneeded spells). The lizard compensate on what I'll draw. In addition, it's clampable. At first, the theory of using it intrigued me... now, it's mostly a fodder but its initial ability really helps me.

On the other hand, there are some players doesn't like using him.

Quote from Ikaoru

Skink is doing well in my deck. In my experienced, Boros seems to lack some top deck control (too much land or unneeded spells). The lizard compensate on what I'll draw. In addition, it's clampable. At first, the theory of using it intrigued me... now, it's mostly a fodder but its initial ability really helps me.

On the other hand, there are some players doesn't like using him.

He seems especially good in this deck since he won't die when you have Iroas out. Scry 1 a few times is extremely handy for a boros deck, and it's on a 2/1, so it's still helping you win. I'd run it in this deck unless there were enough very strong 2-drops, but I don't think there are enough powerful 2-drops in boros that this guy can't be at least considered.

Well, I just lost straight to Teysa... that means I have to rework my deck. Dual color is bit hard to deal when you draw Blood Moon and Ruination.

Granted that a lot of decks just lost to Teysa but I just need to tweak Iroas more. Dropping Geopede and such and testing Banisher Priest. Land Tax is still a good card to drop even in late game and when you start with 2 lands for the past few turns. Limited Resource but I might as well drop it for Sphere of Cleansing (still considering it).

On the brightside, Skink is still useful to me (unlike Geopded when playing against Teysa).

Quote from Ikaoru

Well, I just lost straight to Teysa... that means I have to rework my deck. Dual color is bit hard to deal when you draw Blood Moon and Ruination.

Granted that a lot of decks just lost to Teysa but I just need to tweak Iroas more. Dropping Geopede and such and testing Banisher Priest. Land Tax is still a good card to drop even in late game and when you start with 2 lands for the past few turns. Limited Resource but I might as well drop it for Sphere of Cleansing (still considering it).

On the brightside, Skink is still useful to me (unlike Geopded when playing against Teysa).

What happened against Teysa that caused you to lose? Also I don't know what card you mean with Sphere of Cleansing. There is no card with that name...

Lack of non-basics is my main worry with running things like bloodmoon, but I guess against certain decks, it is almost automatic win if they don't counter it (and don't have a ridiculous board already).