So I finally put a Prossh deck together and took it to my first tourny on Sat. It's a bit of a different list than when others have posted. It's a planeswalker midrange/controllish deck. The idea is to ramp on turn 2 play a 4 mana walker on turn 3, do what you need to prepare for prossh on turn 4 and then drop prossh on turn 5. The tournament I went to unfortunately was very small due to a couple factors (only 7 people) and I got a bye for 1 one the three rounds. I played against tempo geist and aggro/combo marath. The geist matchup was very close for games 2 and 3. On game three I got him down to one life but he was able to pull out the win on his last turn before we would have drawn. He was a much more experienced player than me and I'm still learning the deck so I probably could have pulled out the win if I had more experience. The marath games weren't close I just disrupted him by using discard and kill spells on his mana dorks until I dropped Prossh. We ended up playing about ~6 games for fun and I think he only won one of them.
During playtesting by far the most difficult deck for me to play against was reanimator oloro. We played about 8 games and not a single one of them was close. Most of the time the game was soundly in his favor by turn 5. Anyways, I'd like to get some feedback on what you guys think about the deck and some tips on how you would play against certain archetypes. (NOTE: the mana base is a work in progress and I'm still in the process of gettting a three visits
or dinosaur pirates!!! big hulking dinos with eye patches and peglegs and troll the ocean on their ships made of smaller dinosaur bones in search or treasures. I would sooo go for that. or better yet, slave dinosaurs that serve the pirates like some sick dinotopia world where people own the dinos.
So I finally put a Prossh deck together and took it to my first tourny on Sat. It's a bit of a different list than when others have posted. It's a planeswalker midrange/controllish deck. The idea is to ramp on turn 2 play a 4 mana walker on turn 3, do what you need to prepare for prossh on turn 4 and then drop prossh on turn 5. The tournament I went to unfortunately was very small due to a couple factors (only 7 people) and I got a bye for 1 one the three rounds. I played against tempo geist and aggro/combo marath. The geist matchup was very close for games 2 and 3. On game three I got him down to one life but he was able to pull out the win on his last turn before we would have drawn. He was a much more experienced player than me and I'm still learning the deck so I probably could have pulled out the win if I had more experience. The marath games weren't close I just disrupted him by using discard and kill spells on his mana dorks until I dropped Prossh. We ended up playing about ~6 games for fun and I think he only won one of them.
During playtesting by far the most difficult deck for me to play against was reanimator oloro. We played about 8 games and not a single one of them was close. Most of the time the game was soundly in his favor by turn 5. Anyways, I'd like to get some feedback on what you guys think about the deck and some tips on how you would play against certain archetypes. (NOTE: the mana base is a work in progress and I'm still in the process of gettting a three visits
There are a few ways to build Prossh. You can build a creature heavy list or a controllish list or even another build. As far as I can see the build you chose is more controllish, as you mentioned. I have a Prossh control deck and I think it's the best way to go.
Some cards in your list doesn't look too synergic. I mean.. you use really few creatures which makes cards like Curse of Predation, Goblin Bombardment not that good. When you cast Prossh you can use them but what if that doesn't happen? They would just be dead cards. They don't interact with the rest of your deck. I really think those cards are strong and I tested them in my list for a while... But like I said, I realized that they were dead cards most of times because they weren't '1-hit KO' cards like Coat of Arms and etc and ended up cutting them out. Xenagos, the Reveler fits in this explanation as well. Now, about Beastmaster Ascension and Xenagos, God of Revels, if they have a spot removal it won't work. Xenagos proved to be really nice in my list since I run 13~ creatures, maybe not that good in yours. I ended cutting Beastmaster since it would get my Kobolds killed vs. swarm decks if not triggered but I still like that card A LOT, it usually works on the following turn tho.
I believe that Underworld Connections and Skeletal Scrying are too slow for the format and Rakdos's Return isn't that great most of times as far as I had it in my list. Chandra, Pyromaster also got cut. 5 mana to 'draw a card' every turn? I can do the same with 3.. And she never was backbreaking, I always ramped with her ult... :/
I also dislike tapped lands but that's more personal preference than anything else.. Sometimes you just need to hit a land to play our lovely dragon and you can't because it comes etb tapped. Or any other relevant spell.. doesn't matter. If you wish to keep them, that's alright. I'd just cut Raging Ravine, I find it too mana intensive...
How Sarkhan Vol has been working for you? Stealing a creature and sacrificing it to Prossh is pretty nuts but I guess it's better suited for a creature heavy deck. And what about Liliana of the Dark Realms?
Do you mind posting your list then. And I have personally play tested against that deck and many of the Garda you are suggesting cutting win games very easily.
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The curse of predation is actually a new addition for me. I wasn't running it before but after playing with the deck for a while I was found that I wanted another coat of arms like effect as I was having trouble finding one by turn 6. I haven't actually got to play it yet since it's a recent addition but shared animosity might be a better choice. Beastmaster has been great for me though. Even if a kobold manages to get killed It usually just triggers the next turn and I kill them anyways plus if forces them to use a removal spell on a token. Goblin bombardment has been okay for me. It's been very useful at times and has never been outright terrible. The meta I'm playing is fairly control heavy so I feel like I can afford to run underworld connections and skeletal scrying. If I knew I was going to be playing a lot more aggro decks I'd probably cut them for black sun's zenith and some other anti aggro card (edict maybe?).
I found myself running out of cards with not a whole lot to do when I was first testing the deck and that's how both chandra and liliy dark realms got put in. I see them as 4 mana phyrexian arena's that don't cost you life and also have relevant second abilities. Chandra can stop a flying blocker when you want to go for the prossh kill and lilly can enable a prossh kill if you have urborg out or kill a creature. I was running karn liberated and sorin markov instead of them but It felt like both of them cost too much and came down too late and didn't impact the board enough. [card]Rakdos's return[/card has been treated me really well, I usually cast it on turn 4 for 3 cards.
Sarkhan has been great. He works extremely well with any coat of arms effect and generally spooks my opponents as they have to deal with him or risk being one shot and his other two abilities are relevant. It feels great to drop him with prossh out. The land base is the way it is b/c I haven't gotten all my fetches and duals. When I get all those the only tap lands I plan to have are the three scry lands and lavaclaw reaches.
So do you only use Xenagos and Coat of Arms as you "one shot" win with prossh? I'm very curious to see your list so I can compare and see if I want to make changes. Also, what turn are you generally looking to kill with prossh in your list? I'm looking to kill between turns 5-7 while from what you've been saying about your deck you might be a looking to kill a turn or two later.
or dinosaur pirates!!! big hulking dinos with eye patches and peglegs and troll the ocean on their ships made of smaller dinosaur bones in search or treasures. I would sooo go for that. or better yet, slave dinosaurs that serve the pirates like some sick dinotopia world where people own the dinos.
After do some more thinking about the deck I ended up swapping lily and chandra back for karn and sorin and I swapped skeletal scrying, garruk relentless, and curse of predation for yavimaya elder, cultivate, and kodama's reach. I want to try out kodama and cultivate to see if the work out for me and yavimaya just seems like a better skeletal scrying.
or dinosaur pirates!!! big hulking dinos with eye patches and peglegs and troll the ocean on their ships made of smaller dinosaur bones in search or treasures. I would sooo go for that. or better yet, slave dinosaurs that serve the pirates like some sick dinotopia world where people own the dinos.
my only problem with this is we are cutting threats for ramp. i dont think this is the correct choice. if we see ipze's list we might be able to get a better understanding of what his exact build is trying to do, but i think for your current build the lilliana and the chandra was very very powerful.
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I made a quick change:
Raging Ravine -> Temple of Malady
I was never really activating the Ravine, and I'm never scared of Sweepers/wraths anyways since Prossh lets me rebuild a board presence so easily. BG is also more important than GR.
I really want to get Dictate of Erebos in. I dont know if I want two of those effects, or to run Dictate instead of Grave Pact along with Brainspoil as another tutor, since a lot of my spells (especially my win conditions) are at 5cc.
It would look like:
Purphoros -> Brainspoil
Grave Pact -> Dictate of Erebos
Purphoros is strangely one of the weakest win conditions in my list. It doesnt end the game in one turn the second I cast it, which is part of the problem. The other problem is that unlike Marath, I can't naturally put Prossh into the Command Zone. When games go long I win matches by playing an attrition way, then dropping Prossh, then casting Coat of Arms/Run/Shared Animosity/Xenagos and winning that turn.
my only problem with this is we are cutting threats for ramp. i dont think this is the correct choice. if we see ipze's list we might be able to get a better understanding of what his exact build is trying to do, but i think for your current build the lilliana and the chandra was very very powerful.
Oh, sorry! I took so long to post my list. I've been busy lately and almost haven't played... However, last week I've been able to play a little and made some major improvements into my list. Credits to spatiska and tiger_tanaka for helping me out.
This is a midrange take on Prossh. Lots of cards there are just meta calls due hyper-aggro decks in my LGS. Last additions that has been pulling their weight:
- Sudden Demise: This is one of the cards that I got most impressed. Much stronger than it seems.. I used to run Black Sun's Zenith and this took its place. I can say it's better than BSZ. Easily. Costs 1 less and you can choose what is leaving... Most aggro decks are green so it's most likely a 1-sided wrath.
- Sylvan Caryatid: Can take the early beats fairly well. But mostly a meta call. She replaced a coldsteel heart so I guess she's staying anyways.. haha
- Green Sun's Zenith: I know my creature count isn't high or such but I pretty much can play it since x=2 til x=6. Also can tutor Xenagod ftw. Greater than expected also.
- Yavimaya Dryad: Her forestwalk ability can be really annoying! Especially if combined with Kessig Wolf Run or Xenagod... Better than Wood Elves due its evasion and devotion count LOL. LET'S TURN XENAGOD INTO A CREATURE! (Sylvan Caryatid got in thinking about that too)
- Courser of Kruphix: When I'm missing a land drop, she finds it easily! Losing life was really a issue for me. That's why Thragtusk and her are in. She blocks really well due it's big butt! Also, devotiooon!!! lol
- Coalition Relic: Fits the same role as Worn Powerstone. I included it in this deck because the mana costs became a little more restrictive. It's a nice ramp.
- Liliana Vess: An expensive tutor that if protected can turn into a win condition. It's role is mostly to get a win condition for Prossh (who's usually coming down next turn) and taking all the beats for a turn or so.
If you have a doubt about any card choice in my list, just let me know!
Suggestions? Would you run Putrefy over Beast Within? Beast Within is more flexible although it replaces with a beast.
I made a quick change:
Raging Ravine -> Temple of Malady
I was never really activating the Ravine, and I'm never scared of Sweepers/wraths anyways since Prossh lets me rebuild a board presence so easily. BG is also more important than GR.
I really want to get Dictate of Erebos in. I dont know if I want two of those effects, or to run Dictate instead of Grave Pact along with Brainspoil as another tutor, since a lot of my spells (especially my win conditions) are at 5cc.
Purphoros is strangely one of the weakest win conditions in my list. It doesnt end the game in one turn the second I cast it, which is part of the problem. The other problem is that unlike Marath, I can't naturally put Prossh into the Command Zone. When games go long I win matches by playing an attrition way, then dropping Prossh, then casting Coat of Arms/Run/Shared Animosity/Xenagos and winning that turn.
About the Raging Ravine, I don't like it too. I feel it isn't worth in this list. I prefer Lavaclaw Reaches, especially because you can hide it under your Blood Crypt and when that damn blue mage casts a pesky Jace, the Mind Sculptor, you just kill him right away. haha
What about Grave Pact effect? Is it really worth it?
I like him! Unlike Garruk Wildspeaker it always does its job. Sometimes you should just spend a removal on Prossh and recast ftw. Or just hold the almighty dragon to block.. It's really annoying to drop him before Prossh sometimes, I must confess. But his ineviability is worth it! The only playable answer to a god so far is Leonin Relic Warder and it's a creature.. I wouldn't cut him anyway.
-Exploration
-Liliana of the Veil
-Sulfurous Springs
-Slice and Dice
-Dreadbore
+Courser of Kruphix
+Oracle of Mul Daya
+Tainted Wood
+Head Games
+Sarkhan Vol
Lands empty from my hand quickly anyways, and without a large number of hand refills Exploration loses its oomph. I decided to try the Courser and Oracle, as it helps smooth my topdecks and they're forms of ramp in the late game. Courser's lifegain is a plus.
Liliana of the Veil is powerful but is underperforming in my deck. +1 hurts me just as often as the opponent. Many times I'll take a turn and not activate either ability. Liliana also has no synergy when Prossh is on the battlefield. Im going to try Sarkhan Vol since I can always +1, the +1 pushes through 12 damage which is nice, the -2 synergizes very well with Prossh and acts as removal similar to Liliana's -2, and his ultimate is easier to achieve and more likely to end the game.
Trying out Tainted Wood to replace Sulfurous Springs.
I want to test out Head Games as Persecute #2.
Took out Slice and Dice as its the weakest sweeper.
It'll be hard to evaluate Treasonous Ogre for you without seeing your list as there's several variants of Prossh. In a vacuum though I don't really care for him. He costs too much mana and you can't really activate him more than 3-4 times against most decks. If I want a mana ramping 4 drop creature I'd much rather play Solemn Simulacrum or Oracle of Mul-Daya. If he had some sort of evasion I'd probably test him out though.
On another note what are people's opinions on the new Garruk? I used to run Karn Liberated in my list and I think he's better than Karn.
or dinosaur pirates!!! big hulking dinos with eye patches and peglegs and troll the ocean on their ships made of smaller dinosaur bones in search or treasures. I would sooo go for that. or better yet, slave dinosaurs that serve the pirates like some sick dinotopia world where people own the dinos.
While I don't play a survival version of Prossh I can tell you that all of the creatures you listed are part of the survival package. Mistcutter and thrun vs. blue control, skin render vs. aggro and revoker for any pesky equipment or planeswalkers. Not %100 sure about the zealous conscripts as I didn't see a Kiki-Jiki in the list but it's a potential blowout vs. certain decks. Jund charm IMO is a great utility spell in a meta with a lot of aggro and graveyard decks which is why I assume it's in the list. If your meta is mostly control decks I wouldn't run it.
or dinosaur pirates!!! big hulking dinos with eye patches and peglegs and troll the ocean on their ships made of smaller dinosaur bones in search or treasures. I would sooo go for that. or better yet, slave dinosaurs that serve the pirates like some sick dinotopia world where people own the dinos.
While I don't play a survival version of Prossh I can tell you that all of the creatures you listed are part of the survival package. Mistcutter and thrun vs. blue control, skin render vs. aggro and revoker for any pesky equipment or planeswalkers. Not %100 sure about the zealous conscripts as I didn't see a Kiki-Jiki in the list but it's a potential blowout vs. certain decks. Jund charm IMO is a great utility spell in a meta with a lot of aggro and graveyard decks which is why I assume it's in the list. If your meta is mostly control decks I wouldn't run it.
That makes a lot more sense - thanks. What other versions of Prossh are there?
Hit//Run is really good, I've sometimes 2-for-1'ed with the Hit spell to take out a mana rock and planeswalker, by redirecting the damage from the player to a planeswalker.
Xenagos is a mainstay, because he can be podded into or green sun's zenithed and in a dork heavy build can have active devotion almost immediately.
Wildspeaker is the best planeswalker in Prossh. Occasionally LotV is just as good. Pattern of Rebirth should be an auto-include. It was a straight swap for Natural Order after that card got banned. Instant win card when you attach it to a kobold to fetch out craterhoof/xenagos. Also good utility early game if you need to get out a primeval titan.
My build of prossh doesn't run wild growth or utopia sprawl either, just all the turn 1 mana dorks. Dorks are really good with food chain and skullclamp, but are more vulnerable to Marath.
How do you guys play against Geist of Saint Traft and similar aggro control? It seems like with Geist especially, if they get a good hand it's a terrible matchup. They have so many ways to dodge hate with a mix of basics and non basics, lots of different counters and bounce, lots of Disenchant effects, filter/draw, and cards like Parallax Wave that they can be a real pain. Dedicating a lot of slots to hate can help, but it seems to dilute the deck a lot and makes actually winning a lot harder. Right now I'm trying a discard heavy, tutor heavy, low-ish curve version of the deck so that I'm not crippled against other decks which is working alright, but I'm still not thrilled with the matchup. Short of going nuts with Boil, Red Elemental Blast, Seedtime, etc, does anyone have any advice? Here's my current list for reference:
How do you guys play against Geist of Saint Traft and similar aggro control? It seems like with Geist especially, if they get a good hand it's a terrible matchup. They have so many ways to dodge hate with a mix of basics and non basics, lots of different counters and bounce, lots of Disenchant effects, filter/draw, and cards like Parallax Wave that they can be a real pain.
Hello prophet_of_boom. I usually play against GST and won almost every match. Here at Florianopolis theres several leagues running Duel Commander and Im playing all of them. I dedicate a few more slots of the deck to this match up. Chainer's Edict and Sudden Demise are really good at several other matchups.
Thanks Korvoow, I like the approach of just killing the GST every time it shows up. I think I'll add more sacrifice and sweeper effects to try to keep GST in the command zone instead of trying to fight off the counters protecting it.
The best card against geist is probably volcanic fallout. There's not much they can do about it unless geist is suited up. A good geist player will always play around edicts and wraths. My list is very creature light (not a survial of the fittest build probably only shares half the cards in the lists you guys posted) and I have a very hard time against geist (easily my worst matchup by far) but I just added in volcanic fallout so hopefully that will help a little bit. If you can kill geist twice you have a very good shot at winning.
or dinosaur pirates!!! big hulking dinos with eye patches and peglegs and troll the ocean on their ships made of smaller dinosaur bones in search or treasures. I would sooo go for that. or better yet, slave dinosaurs that serve the pirates like some sick dinotopia world where people own the dinos.
Just to follow up on this, I went 5/2/0 with Prossh at a 25 player tournament this weekend. I beat Maelstrom Wanderer, primarily by destroying his mana rocks early and then alpha striking with pumped tokens both games. I won 2 close 2/1 rounds VS different Animar players, with them going off once each round, and my removal turning the game into a grind where I was eventually able to swing for lethal the other games. Removal also trumped mono red Krinko goblin aggro. I was able to grind out Emperor Augustin IV after getting through counters and sweepers. I lost once in the swiss and in the finals to Geist, same player. I kept a couple of sketchy hands after mulliganing, made a couples of bad plays, but also got blown out by the right mix of counters into Armageddon. I think a combination of more practice, some blue hate, and getting some duels and fetches to smooth out my mana will go a long way towards the Geist matchup.
Is there a reason you are running Vithian Renegades over Reclamation Sage? Sage seems strictly better to me in versitality, casting cost and he'c clampable. Are the renegades there for the 1 extra power?
I've been using Prossh, Skyraider of Kher (Food chain combo) in our LGS tournaments and was able to make a couple of top 8s (1/2 in 108 player tourney) with relatively limited play tests against top players in our area. Credit goes to Noham (@Nooham) who built the deck and have been testing/tweaking it in Cockatrice since Oloro days. This was also the list he used to dominate GP Strasbourg's recent 3 Duel Commander tourneys with a record of 6-0, 6-0, and 5-0-1. The deck definitely deserves a space here!
Is this deck just completely dead thanks to the Food Chain banning? Or is the elfball version still kinda viable. Pretty sad if the deck is no more, managed to play Noham's list once before the banning, was such a blast to play!
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Duel Commander enthusiast. Currently playing Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and Tasigur, the Golden Fang.
Sadly, I am moving on from the deck. It is way to fragile now to be tier 1 and Food Chain was the heart and soul of this list. My other deck of choice was 5c Child Reanimator... but thanks to Entomb being banned now, that isn't happening either.
I still can't believe RC banned Food Chain. I've played Noham's list for more than 5 months and won a number of small/big tourneys with it but I can say it's not over powered. I've had really bad matchups against a number of commanders (Sharky's GST, Reanimators, Blue/Red control), but most are good matchups. I even saw Noham insert bojuka bog and cremate to combat GY strategies considering it will dilute the combo. But I guess it's ok? Because I believe diversity in a competitive scene should be rock-paper-scissors, Tier 1-2-3.
Sometimes I wonder how these things are being judged on...maybe some transparency with the process that can reach other players across the globe? They can definitely help collect more data for a more objective approach in the bannings.
Anyway, I think elfball is still viable. Although creature control decks (Thraximundar, and to some extent, Marath) are difficult matchups. It still depends on the meta you are expecting. But for me, I'll move on from this commander for now..
Hey Noham! Thanks again!
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During playtesting by far the most difficult deck for me to play against was reanimator oloro. We played about 8 games and not a single one of them was close. Most of the time the game was soundly in his favor by turn 5. Anyways, I'd like to get some feedback on what you guys think about the deck and some tips on how you would play against certain archetypes. (NOTE: the mana base is a work in progress and I'm still in the process of gettting a three visits
Support Creatures
Ramp
disruption
card draw
kill spells
planeswalkers
prossh cards
lands
5 snow-covered swamp
3 snow-covered forest
2 snow-covered mountain
There are a few ways to build Prossh. You can build a creature heavy list or a controllish list or even another build. As far as I can see the build you chose is more controllish, as you mentioned. I have a Prossh control deck and I think it's the best way to go.
Some cards in your list doesn't look too synergic. I mean.. you use really few creatures which makes cards like Curse of Predation, Goblin Bombardment not that good. When you cast Prossh you can use them but what if that doesn't happen? They would just be dead cards. They don't interact with the rest of your deck. I really think those cards are strong and I tested them in my list for a while... But like I said, I realized that they were dead cards most of times because they weren't '1-hit KO' cards like Coat of Arms and etc and ended up cutting them out. Xenagos, the Reveler fits in this explanation as well. Now, about Beastmaster Ascension and Xenagos, God of Revels, if they have a spot removal it won't work. Xenagos proved to be really nice in my list since I run 13~ creatures, maybe not that good in yours. I ended cutting Beastmaster since it would get my Kobolds killed vs. swarm decks if not triggered but I still like that card A LOT, it usually works on the following turn tho.
I believe that Underworld Connections and Skeletal Scrying are too slow for the format and Rakdos's Return isn't that great most of times as far as I had it in my list. Chandra, Pyromaster also got cut. 5 mana to 'draw a card' every turn? I can do the same with 3.. And she never was backbreaking, I always ramped with her ult... :/
I also dislike tapped lands but that's more personal preference than anything else.. Sometimes you just need to hit a land to play our lovely dragon and you can't because it comes etb tapped. Or any other relevant spell.. doesn't matter. If you wish to keep them, that's alright. I'd just cut Raging Ravine, I find it too mana intensive...
How Sarkhan Vol has been working for you? Stealing a creature and sacrificing it to Prossh is pretty nuts but I guess it's better suited for a creature heavy deck. And what about Liliana of the Dark Realms?
Modern
No clue
RIP Twin
MTGS Olde Name:
Hruen (apparently it was taken, probably by me about 10 years ago.........)
I found myself running out of cards with not a whole lot to do when I was first testing the deck and that's how both chandra and liliy dark realms got put in. I see them as 4 mana phyrexian arena's that don't cost you life and also have relevant second abilities. Chandra can stop a flying blocker when you want to go for the prossh kill and lilly can enable a prossh kill if you have urborg out or kill a creature. I was running karn liberated and sorin markov instead of them but It felt like both of them cost too much and came down too late and didn't impact the board enough. [card]Rakdos's return[/card has been treated me really well, I usually cast it on turn 4 for 3 cards.
Sarkhan has been great. He works extremely well with any coat of arms effect and generally spooks my opponents as they have to deal with him or risk being one shot and his other two abilities are relevant. It feels great to drop him with prossh out. The land base is the way it is b/c I haven't gotten all my fetches and duals. When I get all those the only tap lands I plan to have are the three scry lands and lavaclaw reaches.
So do you only use Xenagos and Coat of Arms as you "one shot" win with prossh? I'm very curious to see your list so I can compare and see if I want to make changes. Also, what turn are you generally looking to kill with prossh in your list? I'm looking to kill between turns 5-7 while from what you've been saying about your deck you might be a looking to kill a turn or two later.
Modern
No clue
RIP Twin
MTGS Olde Name:
Hruen (apparently it was taken, probably by me about 10 years ago.........)
Raging Ravine -> Temple of Malady
I was never really activating the Ravine, and I'm never scared of Sweepers/wraths anyways since Prossh lets me rebuild a board presence so easily. BG is also more important than GR.
I really want to get Dictate of Erebos in. I dont know if I want two of those effects, or to run Dictate instead of Grave Pact along with Brainspoil as another tutor, since a lot of my spells (especially my win conditions) are at 5cc.
It would look like:
Purphoros -> Brainspoil
Grave Pact -> Dictate of Erebos
Purphoros is strangely one of the weakest win conditions in my list. It doesnt end the game in one turn the second I cast it, which is part of the problem. The other problem is that unlike Marath, I can't naturally put Prossh into the Command Zone. When games go long I win matches by playing an attrition way, then dropping Prossh, then casting Coat of Arms/Run/Shared Animosity/Xenagos and winning that turn.
EDH Decks:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Ezuri, Renegade Leader 1v1
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher 1v1
Hythonia the Cruel
Trying to build:
Jenara, Asura of War
Designing a Custom Set:
Clash of the Cultures: 5 Wedges, 5 Cultures
Providing Artwork for:
Archester: Frontier of Steam
Oh, sorry! I took so long to post my list. I've been busy lately and almost haven't played... However, last week I've been able to play a little and made some major improvements into my list. Credits to spatiska and tiger_tanaka for helping me out.
This is a midrange take on Prossh. Lots of cards there are just meta calls due hyper-aggro decks in my LGS. Last additions that has been pulling their weight:
- Sudden Demise: This is one of the cards that I got most impressed. Much stronger than it seems.. I used to run Black Sun's Zenith and this took its place. I can say it's better than BSZ. Easily. Costs 1 less and you can choose what is leaving... Most aggro decks are green so it's most likely a 1-sided wrath.
- Sylvan Caryatid: Can take the early beats fairly well. But mostly a meta call. She replaced a coldsteel heart so I guess she's staying anyways.. haha
- Green Sun's Zenith: I know my creature count isn't high or such but I pretty much can play it since x=2 til x=6. Also can tutor Xenagod ftw. Greater than expected also.
- Yavimaya Dryad: Her forestwalk ability can be really annoying! Especially if combined with Kessig Wolf Run or Xenagod... Better than Wood Elves due its evasion and devotion count LOL. LET'S TURN XENAGOD INTO A CREATURE! (Sylvan Caryatid got in thinking about that too)
- Courser of Kruphix: When I'm missing a land drop, she finds it easily! Losing life was really a issue for me. That's why Thragtusk and her are in. She blocks really well due it's big butt! Also, devotiooon!!! lol
- Coalition Relic: Fits the same role as Worn Powerstone. I included it in this deck because the mana costs became a little more restrictive. It's a nice ramp.
- Liliana Vess: An expensive tutor that if protected can turn into a win condition. It's role is mostly to get a win condition for Prossh (who's usually coming down next turn) and taking all the beats for a turn or so.
If you have a doubt about any card choice in my list, just let me know!
Suggestions? Would you run Putrefy over Beast Within? Beast Within is more flexible although it replaces with a beast.
About the Raging Ravine, I don't like it too. I feel it isn't worth in this list. I prefer Lavaclaw Reaches, especially because you can hide it under your Blood Crypt and when that damn blue mage casts a pesky Jace, the Mind Sculptor, you just kill him right away. haha
What about Grave Pact effect? Is it really worth it?
I like him! Unlike Garruk Wildspeaker it always does its job. Sometimes you should just spend a removal on Prossh and recast ftw. Or just hold the almighty dragon to block.. It's really annoying to drop him before Prossh sometimes, I must confess. But his ineviability is worth it! The only playable answer to a god so far is Leonin Relic Warder and it's a creature.. I wouldn't cut him anyway.
-Exploration
-Liliana of the Veil
-Sulfurous Springs
-Slice and Dice
-Dreadbore
+Courser of Kruphix
+Oracle of Mul Daya
+Tainted Wood
+Head Games
+Sarkhan Vol
Lands empty from my hand quickly anyways, and without a large number of hand refills Exploration loses its oomph. I decided to try the Courser and Oracle, as it helps smooth my topdecks and they're forms of ramp in the late game. Courser's lifegain is a plus.
Liliana of the Veil is powerful but is underperforming in my deck. +1 hurts me just as often as the opponent. Many times I'll take a turn and not activate either ability. Liliana also has no synergy when Prossh is on the battlefield. Im going to try Sarkhan Vol since I can always +1, the +1 pushes through 12 damage which is nice, the -2 synergizes very well with Prossh and acts as removal similar to Liliana's -2, and his ultimate is easier to achieve and more likely to end the game.
Trying out Tainted Wood to replace Sulfurous Springs.
I want to test out Head Games as Persecute #2.
Took out Slice and Dice as its the weakest sweeper.
EDH Decks:
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Tajic, Blade of the Legion
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Purphoros, God of the Forge
Ezuri, Renegade Leader 1v1
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher 1v1
Hythonia the Cruel
Trying to build:
Jenara, Asura of War
Designing a Custom Set:
Clash of the Cultures: 5 Wedges, 5 Cultures
Providing Artwork for:
Archester: Frontier of Steam
On another note what are people's opinions on the new Garruk? I used to run Karn Liberated in my list and I think he's better than Karn.
I like your list.
This is a big ask but could you do a card by card analysis.
At the moment I'm wondering why you don't have rakdos signet.
Also are there interactions im missing with the following cards:
mistcutter hydra
phyrexian revoker
skin render
thrun
zealous conscripts
jund charm
Some seem a bit underpowered.
Thanks.
While I don't play a survival version of Prossh I can tell you that all of the creatures you listed are part of the survival package. Mistcutter and thrun vs. blue control, skin render vs. aggro and revoker for any pesky equipment or planeswalkers. Not %100 sure about the zealous conscripts as I didn't see a Kiki-Jiki in the list but it's a potential blowout vs. certain decks. Jund charm IMO is a great utility spell in a meta with a lot of aggro and graveyard decks which is why I assume it's in the list. If your meta is mostly control decks I wouldn't run it.
That makes a lot more sense - thanks. What other versions of Prossh are there?
Xenagos is a mainstay, because he can be podded into or green sun's zenithed and in a dork heavy build can have active devotion almost immediately.
Wildspeaker is the best planeswalker in Prossh. Occasionally LotV is just as good.
Pattern of Rebirth should be an auto-include. It was a straight swap for Natural Order after that card got banned. Instant win card when you attach it to a kobold to fetch out craterhoof/xenagos. Also good utility early game if you need to get out a primeval titan.
My build of prossh doesn't run wild growth or utopia sprawl either, just all the turn 1 mana dorks. Dorks are really good with food chain and skullclamp, but are more vulnerable to Marath.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Skullclamp
1 Lightning Greaves
Lands 37:
2 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Savage Lands
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
1 Raging Ravine
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Command Tower
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Mossfire Valley
1 Shadowblood Ridge
1 Twilight Mire
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Mana Confluence
1 City of Brass
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Graven Cairns
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Temple of the False God
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Jund Panorama
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Wood Elves
1 Primeval Titan
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Eternal Witness
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Acidic Slime
1 Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
Enchantments 9:
1 Bitterblossom
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sneak Attack
1 Sylvan Library
1 Food Chain
1 Beastmaster Ascension
1 Awakening Zone
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Grave Pact
Instants 6:
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Krosan Grip
1 Putrefy
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Tainted Pact
1 Skeletal Scrying
Sorcery 24:
1 Damnation
1 Cultivate
1 Skyshroud Claim
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Nature's Lore
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Rhystic Tutor
1 Innocent Blood
1 Banefire
1 Blightning
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Distress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Persecute
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Decree of Pain
1 Vandalblast
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
Hello prophet_of_boom. I usually play against GST and won almost every match. Here at Florianopolis theres several leagues running Duel Commander and Im playing all of them. I dedicate a few more slots of the deck to this match up. Chainer's Edict and Sudden Demise are really good at several other matchups.
Here's my current list:
1x Arid Mesa
1x Badlands
1x Bayou
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Dark Depths
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
1x Homeward Path
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Mana Confluence
1x Marsh Flats
1x Maze of Ith
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Swamp
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
1x Taiga
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Twilight Mire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Acidic Slime
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Bloom Tender
1x Braids, Cabal Minion
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Fulminator Mage
1x Griselbrand
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Primeval Titan
1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Thragtusk
1x Xenagos, God of Revels
1x Zealous Conscripts
Enchantment (10)
1x Dictate of Erebos
1x Fastbond
1x Goblin Bombardment
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Shared Animosity
1x Shivan Harvest
1x Sneak Attack
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
Planeswalker (5)
1x Garruk, Primal Hunter
1x Karn Liberated
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Sarkhan Vol
1x Xenagos, The Reveler
1x Beseech the Queen
1x Chainer's Edict
1x Cruel Tutor
1x Damnation
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Dreadbore
1x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Hymn to Tourach
1x Innocent Blood
1x Life from the Loam
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Rakdos's Return
1x Sudden Demise
1x Thoughtseize
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Toxic Deluge
Instant (7)
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Crop Rotation
1x Diabolic Edict
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Krosan Grip
1x Skeletal Scrying
1x Tainted Pact
Artifact (3)
1x Coalition Relic
1x Skullclamp
1x Thran Dynamo
I've been using Prossh, Skyraider of Kher (Food chain combo) in our LGS tournaments and was able to make a couple of top 8s (1/2 in 108 player tourney) with relatively limited play tests against top players in our area. Credit goes to Noham (@Nooham) who built the deck and have been testing/tweaking it in Cockatrice since Oloro days. This was also the list he used to dominate GP Strasbourg's recent 3 Duel Commander tourneys with a record of 6-0, 6-0, and 5-0-1. The deck definitely deserves a space here!
1 Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
Lands (38)
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Wasteland
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 City of Brass
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
1 Windswept Heath
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
1 Karplusan Forest
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Command Tower
1 Graven Cairns
1 Twilight Mire
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mana Confluence
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Homeward Path
1 Urborg , Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Boreal Druid
1 Arbor Elf
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Blood Artist
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Wall of Roots
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Sakura- Tribe Elder
1 Devoted Druid
1 Dark Confidant
1 Wood Elves
1 Eternal Witness
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Skullmulcher
1 Shriekmaw
1 Acidic Slime
1 Xenagos, God of Revels
1 Primeval Titan
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
Instants and Sorceries (19)
1 Restore
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Tainted Pact
1 Grim Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Chord of Calling
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Crop Rotation
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Nature's Lore
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Hit // Run
1 Beast Within
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Three Visits
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Dark Ritual
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Expedition Map
1 Food Chain
1 Birthing Pod
1 Sylvan Library
1 Fecundity
1 Skullclamp
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Coalition Relic
1 Recurring Nightmare
Hope he can drop by and do a mini deck tech for us.
Sadly, I am moving on from the deck. It is way to fragile now to be tier 1 and Food Chain was the heart and soul of this list. My other deck of choice was 5c Child Reanimator... but thanks to Entomb being banned now, that isn't happening either.
I'll be focusing on Anafenza and Arbiter now.
Sometimes I wonder how these things are being judged on...maybe some transparency with the process that can reach other players across the globe? They can definitely help collect more data for a more objective approach in the bannings.
Anyway, I think elfball is still viable. Although creature control decks (Thraximundar, and to some extent, Marath) are difficult matchups. It still depends on the meta you are expecting. But for me, I'll move on from this commander for now..
Hey Noham! Thanks again!