Your piles section is confusing for me . Are those pass the turn piles? Your fastest piles are unprotected ones since you get to use yawgwin and led. Also I like to think of piles based on the opening cantrip. With gush online any cmc 1 cabtrip can build piles at cost of cabtrip
The cost to win on turn is cabtrip cost twice + DD so ponder for example can win on turn for 5 so turn 3 with a DR.
Gush
Led
Probe
YW
LM
I most play DD in multiplayer so it's most likely more desirable in multiplayer .
For protection piles the mill trips are something I save to open a pile be used you can win in turn for cheap and use an in hand counter or it pact or w/e
Example
Holding mental note
Labman
X
Gush
Unearth
Probe
Cost UB
Other really fast likes are like
Gush in hand
Pile
Mental note
LED
Labman
Probe
Yawg win
That pile can win just having the mana to cast doomsday learning piles for each cabtrip this way will let you more efficiently cantrip in the early game . While it may be obvious to hold a card like predict to go off the advantages of ideas unbound may not be as apparent.
Since IU opens 3 if you can cast DD and IU your going to be able to build a winning pile. IU lets you gush your entire pile so you can pair any 3 cards with LM + gush in like to meet either mana or cabtrip needs your hand is missing. Things like knowing the cost of LED piles for when you have LM in your hand is important. For example if I have layman in hand I can now use lotus petal or something in it's place to lower the cost of the pile .
I found making protected unprotected and built in protection piles for each cantrip helped in learning them all so you know how to use the cantrips correctly the first few turns by seeing what you need for the cantrips you have and pacing together the puzzle.
Hi guys!
Want to share my experience with the deck!
My list is slightly different respect the pure-combo one. Because of the strange banlist used in the store, and because I decide to join the tourney at the very last moment so I wasn't able to find all the cards missing. So please don't focus on sub optimal deckbuild (which I'm going to underline), I'm going to fix it
(Note of Author: We play with 10 cards sideboard, so some cards may seems crazy, but I didn't find anything better. For example I sided CB and rhystic study against very slow control. After all, better than terminus )
Anyway, I was able to reach a very satisfying 4-0!
1 Turn: UW Grand Arbiter Augustine "the Annoying" IV
Pretty unlucky. My teammate, he knows exactly what to do. This results in a very nice turn 2 Meddling Mage naming DD. Preparing for the late game, the clock became unexpectedly fast when factorfiction-sphinx and Augustine join the board. But it's a Miracle! The top of my deck reveal a Devastating Tide that sweeps the board, buying me some time. Too late for DD+Echoing Truth,but with Augustine's pilot tapped out to play again all his big creatures to kill me the next turn, probably fearing to concede me more time to bounce his Chris-Pikula-hatebear. After all with this line of play: he has to fear only a terminus from the top(some of my tutors were already gone, so It would be difficult for me to "create" the Miracle)... Or probably his hand lacked in counter.
I counted my mana. 10. Exactly what I needed: 2W for RIP, 5 for Helm, 1 for activation, 1 for the Backup pact.
My mate look at me astonished, evaluating a little his possibility, probably thinking about taking a game loss for a 2nd degree murder.
Then we shake our hands
Turn 2: Sigarda
Solid hand, I'll have to pay attention for removals. I sculpt a bit, he's short on green mana so only a turn 3 SOFI and one BoP join us.
When I tap BBB to remove all but 5 cards, He seems to recognize the combo, but wasn't sure about how it works. I stack the standard unearth pile. But for the first time in a real match, I was able to read my opponent's hand, and his spot removal. So i proceed to a draw-go until 3 cards are on top. Draw maniac, tap 3 and play it. Scour . Resp: Path to Exile. Resp: Brainstorm. GG.
Don't know if was better to wait 'til i can use the turn draw to avoid another one removal, or to go for it 2 turn earlier for minimize his topdeck.
Turn 3: Daxos of Meletis
Ok, didn't know what to expect. We temporize a little bit, his general strike me once, than meets my Maze of Ith.
A few turn later I tilted, and decide to go for it, with my opponent not knowing what is DD. I stack my pile.
I'm really sorry but I totally forget what happens next. I remember only a situation where a counter on unearth would have resulted in me decking myself...
Then 1 mistake for side (so 2-1 for me )
- He tutors a Pact of Negation instead another counter
- I see his Mana crypt as a Mana vault-----> So I think: PoN on Unearth and GG, cause he can pay 3UU
Fortunately I try anyway to reanimate my Wizard, he allows it probably misunderstanding the combo. Pass my turn (he looks at me astonished) ----> pass his turn----> proceed to draw my win. Removal, resp: cantrip, resp: removal, resp: cantrip. GG
He explained me later than he exchanged Gush for a sorcery, playing he almost only T2
Shame on me, I can't say nothing else about this match. I really tilted, can't remember what kind of thinking made me follow this line of play.
Turn 4: Oloro, planeswalker control with 1-2 combo inside
Thrilling game. Draw-go for many turns, sculpting, tutoring, few menaces countered, while I was able to top deck rip-helm during this time. His wayfarer and spirit of the labyrint meet my Toxic deluge.
Later I try a Rhystic Study to catch a counter (which is of course what happened). Search eot a SDT whit enlightened tutor to sculpt more and more. Play RIP with a poker face, trying to make it seems like unimportant. After all, I've just tutored for a SDT, and he knows I'm on DD.
Few turn later (we stop to count the life at 80) Peek eot meet his Negate. I evaluate the reaction, probably empty in counter ( or full, trying Jedi mind tricks). I can try to go for it, and eventually going for DD if i fail with RIP helm. Also, I have 2 counter, so odds are in my favor.
Think a bit. Count my and his mana. In my turn Counterbalance Helm, it enters,activate. resp: bouncing RIP, resp: Fluster storm. GG
Again, only want to share my experience, now I find some missings cards and can go on with the straight combo.
Question: Now I obviously became more expected, any subgestion (a part to improve my poorly lines of play) ?
I've read over this thread multiple times, it has been incredibly informative. I finally put together and tested a paper list I'm pretty happy with. It's designed with multiplayer and versus in mind, some of the card choices may seem odd, but I'm sort of on a budget (no Demonic Tutor for instance). Nonetheless, I would love some feedback, and hopefully my list can help someone out.
I wanted to talk about a few cards I really like that I’m not seeing on every list. Dark Tutelage is one for sure. Our curve is very low and it’s a second or third Dark Confidant/Phyrexian Arena effect which is obviously very powerful. I’m also not seeing the Theros scry lands on many lists. Although they enter the battlefield tapped, they can be the difference between making and missing a land drop and even winning a turn earlier. I’m running Jace Beleren over Rhystic Study, because Jace will draw us the card for sure. Jace Beleren also acts as a target that directs damage away from us. Jace is also better mid to late game. Frantic Search is amazing. A lot of people are running it, but I’m seeing some lists without it. It’s great filtering that is essentially free and is one of the best cards we can Doomsday for if Laboratory Maniac is already in our hand (Doomsday into Frantic Search, Gitaxian Probe, Street Wraith, Unearth, Peek; this pile only requires three mana, and no white mana. We can replace Peek with Abeyance and put it at the top of the pile for protection also). Into The Roil is my very poor man’s Cryptic Command. Archaeomancer is my crappy Snapcaster Mage. I run alternate win conditions just incase something like Jester’s Cap or Sadistic Sacrament hits me, or for some other reason I just can’t Doomsday. I am not running Tainted Pact or Demonic Consultation because my play group has a no infinite/no shortcut rule.
I also wanted to ask about recommendations for more cards like Brainstorm and See Beyond that shuffle cards back into my library? I really hate drawing Predict, and sometimes I get paranoid about discarding it because I fear graveyard hate. I also don’t want to blind cast it incase I accidently mill Doomsday. On a related note, how frequently do you cycle Unearth?
*Turn 3 Doomsday then pass the turn(doable only in aggro decks)
5Frantic search(make sure you have enough cards to discard and can still play a 4th land)
4Lab maniac
3Brain storm
2any card
1any card
Maniac to Brain storm, with 2 cards left in your library, brain storm triggers the W.
*for mid-long game same turn doomsday-maniac trigger(dooms day+card draw spell or ability)
5Gush/frantic search/any spell that lets you draw 2
4Dark ritual
3Sign in blood/Nights whisper
2Maniac
1Street wraith(Timing for cycling wraith is important)
*for Late game with lots of mana
5 Any draw 2 cards spell
4 Any draw 2 cards spell
3 Silence or thought sieze or swords to plowshares(vs marath) or Swansong
2 Lab Maniac
1 Street wraith/Gitaxian probe
*for mid-long game same turn doomsday-maniac trigger(dooms day+card draw spell or ability)
5Gush/frantic search/any spell that lets you draw 2
4Dark ritual
3Sign in blood/Nights whisper
2Maniac
1Street wraith(Timing for cycling wraith is important)
This situation illustrates why I like Unearth so much. Consider this pile:
Predict
Lab Man
Unearth
Gitaxian Probe
Street Wraith
That pile wins with 1UB (after you draw Predict, obviously). Pretty efficient.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Kyrillos »
...this is EDH. If you aren't trying to kill someone in the most ridiculous manner possible, you're doing it wrong.
EDH: Go Crazy or Go back to Standard.
Quote from Cassidy Silver »
Griselbrand is pretty straightforward (in the same way that a nuclear holocaust is straightforward); just draw some cards, beat some face, bathe in the blood of some innocent, and repeat.
I think the main changes from my last version were adding Dark Tutelage, Frantic Search, and Darksteel Mutation. I definitely took out Orim's Chant, and I don't remember what else. This current version feels like it's pretty close to ideal. There are a few slots that can probably be changed around, but overall this thing just feels like a powerhouse.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Kyrillos »
...this is EDH. If you aren't trying to kill someone in the most ridiculous manner possible, you're doing it wrong.
EDH: Go Crazy or Go back to Standard.
Quote from Cassidy Silver »
Griselbrand is pretty straightforward (in the same way that a nuclear holocaust is straightforward); just draw some cards, beat some face, bathe in the blood of some innocent, and repeat.
How is Ad Nauseam working out for you and everyone else? I haven't tested it out yet, it seems like may bring about too much life loss for too great of a mana investment.
How is Ad Nauseam working out for you and everyone else? I haven't tested it out yet, it seems like may bring about too much life loss for too great of a mana investment.
I like it. Five mana can be a lot, but it's an instant and you can usually draw enough cards to make it more than worthwhile. The life loss is almost never a concern because it's not like I'm trying to draw my entire deck with it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Kyrillos »
...this is EDH. If you aren't trying to kill someone in the most ridiculous manner possible, you're doing it wrong.
EDH: Go Crazy or Go back to Standard.
Quote from Cassidy Silver »
Griselbrand is pretty straightforward (in the same way that a nuclear holocaust is straightforward); just draw some cards, beat some face, bathe in the blood of some innocent, and repeat.
I play with ideas unbound. It's very helpful,especially in doomsday piles where you have to hard cast laboratory maniac because of graveyard hate. It's also just great at filtering in general early to mid game. Meditate on the other hand is much more narrow, because skipping a turn early or midgame is a big deal, we need to hit out land drops. Also for doomsday piles it's not that good because it costs 3.
If I had the money I'd be running Bob, because dark tutelage is amazing. Lately I've been running Liliana Vess. She can tutor for Doomsday, and and can disrupt our opponent and she's an alternate win condition.
Yeah, after playing around with it some more definitely agree about meditate. A bit too cute of a card to include. Actually thought about cutting ideas unbound as well since due to the early game card disadvantage - especially since my initial use for it (doomsday win for only UU) could actually be replaced by Predict (1U):
Super vulnerable to disruption though. But ideas unbound is pretty useful for beating GY hate. Probably could also be used for better protection in the piles as well. Something I definitely need to work on are making piles with protection. I generally just default to the standard abeyance pile if I need a protected pile, but with probe instead of street wraith - definitely need to diversify in that regard.
And what do you think about Ideas Unbound/Meditate? To narrow for use in doomsday piles?
I don't run Bob because I want to play sweepers like Damnation and Supreme Verdict, so if I can get the same effect on something that survives a sweeper (Dark Tutelage, Phyrexian Arena), I'd rather do that than play Bob.
As for Ideas Unbound and Meditate, they're both good cards when comboing off but I haven't found them to be necessary. The deck already plays enough cards that aren't very good unless they're in the Doomsday pile, so I don't want to add more. If I ever ran into a situation where I thought I needed one of those, it might be a different story, but I haven't.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Kyrillos »
...this is EDH. If you aren't trying to kill someone in the most ridiculous manner possible, you're doing it wrong.
EDH: Go Crazy or Go back to Standard.
Quote from Cassidy Silver »
Griselbrand is pretty straightforward (in the same way that a nuclear holocaust is straightforward); just draw some cards, beat some face, bathe in the blood of some innocent, and repeat.
Yeah, after playing around with it some more definitely agree about meditate. A bit too cute of a card to include. Actually thought about cutting ideas unbound as well since due to the early game card disadvantage - especially since my initial use for it (doomsday win for only UU) could actually be replaced by Predict (1U):
Super vulnerable to disruption though. But ideas unbound is pretty useful for beating GY hate. Probably could also be used for better protection in the piles as well. Something I definitely need to work on are making piles with protection. I generally just default to the standard abeyance pile if I need a protected pile, but with probe instead of street wraith - definitely need to diversify in that regard.
Yeah, Abeyance and Silence are your answers to disruption. Also Street Wraith. Remember that if they try to kill your Lab Man you can still win as long as you have a draw that resolves before their removal spell. It's all about having that draw trigger.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Kyrillos »
...this is EDH. If you aren't trying to kill someone in the most ridiculous manner possible, you're doing it wrong.
EDH: Go Crazy or Go back to Standard.
Quote from Cassidy Silver »
Griselbrand is pretty straightforward (in the same way that a nuclear holocaust is straightforward); just draw some cards, beat some face, bathe in the blood of some innocent, and repeat.
I know green has been brought up throughout the thread, but I am not sure if it is splash-worthy on top of the other 3 colors?
Thank you!
If Oath of Druids wasn't banned, maybe. Otherwise, I don't think there is enough justification to add another color since the esper deck is already vulnerable enough to Blood Moon effects and Wasteland. While the cards you listed can be good, I don't think they are good enough to further destabilize the mana base.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Kyrillos »
...this is EDH. If you aren't trying to kill someone in the most ridiculous manner possible, you're doing it wrong.
EDH: Go Crazy or Go back to Standard.
Quote from Cassidy Silver »
Griselbrand is pretty straightforward (in the same way that a nuclear holocaust is straightforward); just draw some cards, beat some face, bathe in the blood of some innocent, and repeat.
I basically think Oloro is mandatory, don't forget you are sacrificing half of your life and you are going to be hit before you doomsday, and probably the turn you pass before you combo out.
Oloro is the best durdly commander ever printed. He alone blanks early agro and you often find yourself fluctuating around your 30s hp even around turn 6.
Green does bring this build some things but none compare to the benefits of having a constant flow of life points to create a safety zone that allow us to dig for the combo and survive using it.
So, Oloro is banned. What direction should we go?
As a very conservative measure I just switched Oloro for Triplets but there ought to be better ideas.
The deck basically doesn't work without oloro. You can try Damia, or Sen Triplets, but you are going to get hit before you lose half of your life, and probably after your pass your turn to Doomsday. Maybe a less optimized build with lifegain, i.e. cards like Timely Reinforcements.
Hmm... My testing after the ban is yet insufficient, but I didn't really felt the deck becoming unplayable.
Interesting thing is that I most often set up the combo so that I win the same turn I play Doomsday, without passing the turn. So my main goal is not to die before. That's achievable
Even more, Triplets protecting me from countermagic (and allowing to do some unfair things with opponent's good cards) felt even better for that strategy.
Will keep testing!
hello! Been wanting to build an esper duel commander deck, is this the posted list still competitive with sen triplets? any input would really help me out =)
I already made some changes to the list for cards like tainted pact Ill update it and post it here when I find the time.
First of all the loss of Oloro seems hard for the deck but fast aggro is not really a thing in the current meta. Jenara or Geist seem problzmatic though. I choose merieke over triplets as a way to deal with early creatures since I believe that the amount of CA the deck generates helps already against control. I think doomsday is a good amternative to Uxx control as it gives a faster win condition against both draws and decks that play problematic threats. Having a strong proactive plan is important in the format.
If anyone is still playing the deck Id be happy to hear your suggestions
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGO Username: Tajicyolo
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show Duel Commander:Kess High Tide Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The cost to win on turn is cabtrip cost twice + DD so ponder for example can win on turn for 5 so turn 3 with a DR.
Gush
Led
Probe
YW
LM
I most play DD in multiplayer so it's most likely more desirable in multiplayer .
For protection piles the mill trips are something I save to open a pile be used you can win in turn for cheap and use an in hand counter or it pact or w/e
Example
Holding mental note
Labman
X
Gush
Unearth
Probe
Cost UB
Other really fast likes are like
Gush in hand
Pile
Mental note
LED
Labman
Probe
Yawg win
That pile can win just having the mana to cast doomsday learning piles for each cabtrip this way will let you more efficiently cantrip in the early game . While it may be obvious to hold a card like predict to go off the advantages of ideas unbound may not be as apparent.
Since IU opens 3 if you can cast DD and IU your going to be able to build a winning pile. IU lets you gush your entire pile so you can pair any 3 cards with LM + gush in like to meet either mana or cabtrip needs your hand is missing. Things like knowing the cost of LED piles for when you have LM in your hand is important. For example if I have layman in hand I can now use lotus petal or something in it's place to lower the cost of the pile .
I found making protected unprotected and built in protection piles for each cantrip helped in learning them all so you know how to use the cantrips correctly the first few turns by seeing what you need for the cantrips you have and pacing together the puzzle.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Please do that's what i play ill update my list a haven't in awhile though i have been on a storm binge of sorts
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Want to share my experience with the deck!
My list is slightly different respect the pure-combo one. Because of the strange banlist used in the store, and because I decide to join the tourney at the very last moment so I wasn't able to find all the cards missing. So please don't focus on sub optimal deckbuild (which I'm going to underline), I'm going to fix it
(Note of Author: We play with 10 cards sideboard, so some cards may seems crazy, but I didn't find anything better. For example I sided CB and rhystic study against very slow control. After all, better than terminus )
Anyway, I was able to reach a very satisfying 4-0!
1 Turn: UW Grand Arbiter Augustine "the Annoying" IV
Pretty unlucky. My teammate, he knows exactly what to do. This results in a very nice turn 2 Meddling Mage naming DD. Preparing for the late game, the clock became unexpectedly fast when factorfiction-sphinx and Augustine join the board. But it's a Miracle! The top of my deck reveal a Devastating Tide that sweeps the board, buying me some time. Too late for DD+Echoing Truth,but with Augustine's pilot tapped out to play again all his big creatures to kill me the next turn, probably fearing to concede me more time to bounce his Chris-Pikula-hatebear. After all with this line of play: he has to fear only a terminus from the top(some of my tutors were already gone, so It would be difficult for me to "create" the Miracle)... Or probably his hand lacked in counter.
I counted my mana. 10. Exactly what I needed: 2W for RIP, 5 for Helm, 1 for activation, 1 for the Backup pact.
My mate look at me astonished, evaluating a little his possibility, probably thinking about taking a game loss for a 2nd degree murder.
Then we shake our hands
Turn 2: Sigarda
Solid hand, I'll have to pay attention for removals. I sculpt a bit, he's short on green mana so only a turn 3 SOFI and one BoP join us.
When I tap BBB to remove all but 5 cards, He seems to recognize the combo, but wasn't sure about how it works. I stack the standard unearth pile. But for the first time in a real match, I was able to read my opponent's hand, and his spot removal. So i proceed to a draw-go until 3 cards are on top. Draw maniac, tap 3 and play it. Scour . Resp: Path to Exile. Resp: Brainstorm. GG.
Don't know if was better to wait 'til i can use the turn draw to avoid another one removal, or to go for it 2 turn earlier for minimize his topdeck.
Turn 3: Daxos of Meletis
Ok, didn't know what to expect. We temporize a little bit, his general strike me once, than meets my Maze of Ith.
A few turn later I tilted, and decide to go for it, with my opponent not knowing what is DD. I stack my pile.
I'm really sorry but I totally forget what happens next. I remember only a situation where a counter on unearth would have resulted in me decking myself...
Then 1 mistake for side (so 2-1 for me )
- He tutors a Pact of Negation instead another counter
- I see his Mana crypt as a Mana vault-----> So I think: PoN on Unearth and GG, cause he can pay 3UU
Fortunately I try anyway to reanimate my Wizard, he allows it probably misunderstanding the combo. Pass my turn (he looks at me astonished) ----> pass his turn----> proceed to draw my win. Removal, resp: cantrip, resp: removal, resp: cantrip. GG
He explained me later than he exchanged Gush for a sorcery, playing he almost only T2
Shame on me, I can't say nothing else about this match. I really tilted, can't remember what kind of thinking made me follow this line of play.
Turn 4: Oloro, planeswalker control with 1-2 combo inside
Thrilling game. Draw-go for many turns, sculpting, tutoring, few menaces countered, while I was able to top deck rip-helm during this time. His wayfarer and spirit of the labyrint meet my Toxic deluge.
Later I try a Rhystic Study to catch a counter (which is of course what happened). Search eot a SDT whit enlightened tutor to sculpt more and more. Play RIP with a poker face, trying to make it seems like unimportant. After all, I've just tutored for a SDT, and he knows I'm on DD.
Few turn later (we stop to count the life at 80) Peek eot meet his Negate. I evaluate the reaction, probably empty in counter ( or full, trying Jedi mind tricks). I can try to go for it, and eventually going for DD if i fail with RIP helm. Also, I have 2 counter, so odds are in my favor.
Think a bit. Count my and his mana. In my turn Counterbalance Helm, it enters,activate. resp: bouncing RIP, resp: Fluster storm. GG
Again, only want to share my experience, now I find some missings cards and can go on with the straight combo.
Question: Now I obviously became more expected, any subgestion (a part to improve my poorly lines of play) ?
P.s. Sorry for my english
1x Doomsday
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Predict
1x Unearth
Permission/Protection (10)
1x Abeyance
1x Arcane Denial
1x Counterspell
1x Dispel
1x Dissolve
1x Hinder
1x Negate
1x Pact of Negation
1x Silence
1x Swan Song
Removal/Bounce (9)
1x Banishing Stroke
1x Boomerang
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Dismember
1x Embargo
1x Go for the Throat
1x Into the Roil
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Terminus
Draw/Advantage (21)
1x Brainstorm
1x Careful Study
1x Clairvoyance
1x Dark Tutelage
1x Frantic Search
1x Gitaxian Probe
1x Ideas Unbound
1x Impulse
1x Jace Beleren
1x Night's Whisper
1x Opt
1x Peek
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Ponder
1x Preordain
1x Quicken
1x Read the Bones
1x See Beyond
1x Sorcerous Sight
1x Street Wraith
1x Telepathy
1x Beseech the Queen
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Dimir Machinations
1x Drift of Phantasms
1x Increasing Ambition
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Perplex
Alternate Win Condition (3)
1x Magister Sphinx
1x Oloro, Ageless Ascetic (General)
1x Sorin Markov
Recursion (3)
1x Archaeomancer
1x Call to Mind
1x Pull from Eternity
Ramp/Fixing (3)
1x Dark Ritual
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Sol Ring
Land (38)
1x Adarkar Wastes
1x Arcane Sanctum
1x Caves of Koilos
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Darkslick Shores
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Ebon Stronghold
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Frost Marsh
1x Glacial Fortress
8x Island
1x Isolated Chapel
1x Jwar Isle Refuge
2x Plains
1x Sejiri Refuge
9x Swamp
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Temple of Silence
1x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Underground River
I wanted to talk about a few cards I really like that I’m not seeing on every list. Dark Tutelage is one for sure. Our curve is very low and it’s a second or third Dark Confidant/Phyrexian Arena effect which is obviously very powerful. I’m also not seeing the Theros scry lands on many lists. Although they enter the battlefield tapped, they can be the difference between making and missing a land drop and even winning a turn earlier. I’m running Jace Beleren over Rhystic Study, because Jace will draw us the card for sure. Jace Beleren also acts as a target that directs damage away from us. Jace is also better mid to late game. Frantic Search is amazing. A lot of people are running it, but I’m seeing some lists without it. It’s great filtering that is essentially free and is one of the best cards we can Doomsday for if Laboratory Maniac is already in our hand (Doomsday into Frantic Search, Gitaxian Probe, Street Wraith, Unearth, Peek; this pile only requires three mana, and no white mana. We can replace Peek with Abeyance and put it at the top of the pile for protection also). Into The Roil is my very poor man’s Cryptic Command. Archaeomancer is my crappy Snapcaster Mage. I run alternate win conditions just incase something like Jester’s Cap or Sadistic Sacrament hits me, or for some other reason I just can’t Doomsday. I am not running Tainted Pact or Demonic Consultation because my play group has a no infinite/no shortcut rule.
I also wanted to ask about recommendations for more cards like Brainstorm and See Beyond that shuffle cards back into my library? I really hate drawing Predict, and sometimes I get paranoid about discarding it because I fear graveyard hate. I also don’t want to blind cast it incase I accidently mill Doomsday. On a related note, how frequently do you cycle Unearth?
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
5Frantic search(make sure you have enough cards to discard and can still play a 4th land)
4Lab maniac
3Brain storm
2any card
1any card
Maniac to Brain storm, with 2 cards left in your library, brain storm triggers the W.
*for mid-long game same turn doomsday-maniac trigger(dooms day+card draw spell or ability)
5Gush/frantic search/any spell that lets you draw 2
4Dark ritual
3Sign in blood/Nights whisper
2Maniac
1Street wraith(Timing for cycling wraith is important)
*for Late game with lots of mana
5 Any draw 2 cards spell
4 Any draw 2 cards spell
3 Silence or thought sieze or swords to plowshares(vs marath) or Swansong
2 Lab Maniac
1 Street wraith/Gitaxian probe
This situation illustrates why I like Unearth so much. Consider this pile:
Predict
Lab Man
Unearth
Gitaxian Probe
Street Wraith
That pile wins with 1UB (after you draw Predict, obviously). Pretty efficient.
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Caves of Koilos
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Dreadship Reef
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Fetid Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Island
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mystic Gate
1 Nimbus Maze
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 River of Tears
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
1 Underground River
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
Creatures:
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Street Wraith
Instants:
1 Pact of Negation
1 Brainstorm
1 Condescend
1 Dark Ritual
1 Dispel
1 Divert
1 Flusterstorm
1 Mental Note
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Silence
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Spell Pierce
1 Swan Song
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Abeyance
1 Counterspell
1 Go for the Throat
1 Impulse
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault
1 Mana Leak
1 Miscalculation
1 Predict
1 Remand
1 Tainted Pact
1 Dismember
1 Frantic Search
1 Perplex
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Force of Will
1 Gush
1 Misdirection
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Duress
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Thoughtseize
1 Unearth
1 Castigate
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Gerrard's Verdict
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Night's Whisper
1 Revoke Existence
1 Sign in Blood
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Doomsday
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Vindicate
1 Damnation
1 Supreme Verdict
Enchantments:
1 Darksteel Mutation
1 Dark Tutelage
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Embargo
Jace:
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
I think the main changes from my last version were adding Dark Tutelage, Frantic Search, and Darksteel Mutation. I definitely took out Orim's Chant, and I don't remember what else. This current version feels like it's pretty close to ideal. There are a few slots that can probably be changed around, but overall this thing just feels like a powerhouse.
How is Ad Nauseam working out for you and everyone else? I haven't tested it out yet, it seems like may bring about too much life loss for too great of a mana investment.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I like it. Five mana can be a lot, but it's an instant and you can usually draw enough cards to make it more than worthwhile. The life loss is almost never a concern because it's not like I'm trying to draw my entire deck with it.
How come you aren't using Dark Confidant?
And what do you think about Ideas Unbound/Meditate? To narrow for use in doomsday piles?
If I had the money I'd be running Bob, because dark tutelage is amazing. Lately I've been running Liliana Vess. She can tutor for Doomsday, and and can disrupt our opponent and she's an alternate win condition.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Pile Cost: 1U + 4 life
Predict
Laboratory Maniac
Lion's Eye Diamond
Gitaxian Probe
Yawgmoth's Will
Super vulnerable to disruption though. But ideas unbound is pretty useful for beating GY hate. Probably could also be used for better protection in the piles as well. Something I definitely need to work on are making piles with protection. I generally just default to the standard abeyance pile if I need a protected pile, but with probe instead of street wraith - definitely need to diversify in that regard.
I don't run Bob because I want to play sweepers like Damnation and Supreme Verdict, so if I can get the same effect on something that survives a sweeper (Dark Tutelage, Phyrexian Arena), I'd rather do that than play Bob.
As for Ideas Unbound and Meditate, they're both good cards when comboing off but I haven't found them to be necessary. The deck already plays enough cards that aren't very good unless they're in the Doomsday pile, so I don't want to add more. If I ever ran into a situation where I thought I needed one of those, it might be a different story, but I haven't.
Yeah, Abeyance and Silence are your answers to disruption. Also Street Wraith. Remember that if they try to kill your Lab Man you can still win as long as you have a draw that resolves before their removal spell. It's all about having that draw trigger.
I am pretty new to Doomsday in EDH, but I was wondering if it would make sense to go with a 5-color general and include green for cards such as:
Sylvan Library
Mirri's Guile
Noxious Revival
Xantid Swarm
Guttural Response
Bound / Determined
I know green has been brought up throughout the thread, but I am not sure if it is splash-worthy on top of the other 3 colors?
Thank you!
If Oath of Druids wasn't banned, maybe. Otherwise, I don't think there is enough justification to add another color since the esper deck is already vulnerable enough to Blood Moon effects and Wasteland. While the cards you listed can be good, I don't think they are good enough to further destabilize the mana base.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Green does bring this build some things but none compare to the benefits of having a constant flow of life points to create a safety zone that allow us to dig for the combo and survive using it.
As a very conservative measure I just switched Oloro for Triplets but there ought to be better ideas.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Interesting thing is that I most often set up the combo so that I win the same turn I play Doomsday, without passing the turn. So my main goal is not to die before. That's achievable
Even more, Triplets protecting me from countermagic (and allowing to do some unfair things with opponent's good cards) felt even better for that strategy.
Will keep testing!
http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/showdeck.php?ref=471437%3Cbr%20/%3E
I already made some changes to the list for cards like tainted pact Ill update it and post it here when I find the time.
First of all the loss of Oloro seems hard for the deck but fast aggro is not really a thing in the current meta. Jenara or Geist seem problzmatic though. I choose merieke over triplets as a way to deal with early creatures since I believe that the amount of CA the deck generates helps already against control. I think doomsday is a good amternative to Uxx control as it gives a faster win condition against both draws and decks that play problematic threats. Having a strong proactive plan is important in the format.
If anyone is still playing the deck Id be happy to hear your suggestions
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm
Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show
Duel Commander: Kess High Tide
Vintage Big blue(MTGO)