MTG Salvation

Oloro of all types was a good matchup, but that's no longer relevant.

Lotleth Troll does nothing for this deck, as already noted. I'm not really looking for anything it brings to the table.

I don't like Slaughter Pact. I like cheap removal, and Slaughter Pact only appears to be free. It really costs 3. I don't want to pay 3 for it. I also don't like the non-black clause, though that's less important now than it used to be. Snuff Out would be better, but I still don't want to play that much due to a lack of swamps. It might actually be pretty good still though...maybe I'll try it. Thanks for the idea.

Yisan has been underwhelming in my testing thus far. He's very powerful eventually, but 9 mana (to use him twice) is like a bajillion in this deck, especially considering I need to play Varolz at some point too. The majority of the games in which I've drawn him, my hand has been good enough that I had better things to do than play or activate him. That said, he's the kind of card that is good when you're flooded and just trying to draw gas, and that happens once in a while. I'm going to keep testing him, but he's definitely too slow to be great.

He doesn't interact that well with Sylvan Safekeeper imo. The timing involved for that to be good (Yisan in play, no counters on him, 3 mana up, opponent playing removal that actually hits something relevant out of the blue...we're talking like 1 game in 1000. Sylvan Safekeeper hasn't been any good for me at all ever since he came back in...he's on his way out again.

what are your thoughts about reclamation sage? i put it in in addition to viridian corrupter, but i can definitely see the need to find space and cut the elf.

since i used (and never got hindered by, luckily) doom blade since a long time, slaugher pact seemed to me an improvement. i'll probably test when i draw it which card of the three i'd need to use in that moment.

i feared yisan would be too clunky as well. well, time for me to try chord of calling, as i acquired the card already for standard (not having this much hope about it - just wanted to try myself).

safekeeper got tutored once so far, did a spectacular job vs a geist deck with a hand loaded of exile targeted removal. that's the second time i ever saw him in a game tho (and the first it was just useful/synergic with deathrite shaman).

i'm not convinced by whispering specter, the one time i used it was fantastic but just because i drew an inkmoth nexus the turn before. 4 cards without scavenging on him seemed great, but he's inferior to the other 2 specters imo.

Any updates from Khans of Tarkir?

other than fetches for me, i don't think anything is going in.
unrelated, i'll be using this in the finals of my lgs commander league this sunday, will keep posted.

the 5 damage is going to burn if drawn with confidant or ad nauseam. then again, i'd rather run slaughter pact or snuff out if i wanted a "free" removal.

i recently acquired a Parallax Nexus. what are your thoughts on this? it reads to me as 2b: target player removes 4 cards from his hands until your next turn.
i will try it out.

entomb out, jarad's orders in, i suppose. not nearly as useful but still better than nothing.

A card that has been working unbelievably well for me is unspeakable symbol, that card is a bomb in a varolz infect build, especially if you still have a lot of life left. The instant speed of the effect is also really helpful.

You mean using it as a +4/+4 for 12 life? Because I would never pay 27 life for a +9. Might be handy tho, I was eyeing hatred for the same reasons.

Surprisingly yea, seems like a lot of life until you realize your opponent is already dead, I'm really on infect though, that card creates surprise blowouts and awkward combat phases for the opponent. I also don't have access to Hatred since I'm doing a Tiny Leaders version of this dec. I'm browsing around for ideas but I don't mind contributing to this forum as it is very similar to the overall strategy. Keep up the good work! (Also sorry for my terrible english, I'm french haha)

I'm definitely liking this list and very interested in some of the interactions in your list.

I'm working on a voralz list myself and this seems to offer me good ideas i hadnt considered thanks for the effort and detailed posts and card/match up reports!

truth is, this thread has become really underused. the deck is my weapon of choice when doing duel commander because of its high disruption rate and consistency.

i'll post an updated list soon.

and here it is:



cards not already discussed in the thread:
sensei divining top: just unbanned, figured it would be useful because reasons. still have not seen it in play.
song of the dryads: i considered it as a green path to exile, in the sense that doesn't trigger death triggers and "fetches" for a forest. the fact that it can target anything is a plus.
diabolic edict: a concession to my meta, which has a thraximundar (semi-creatureless build) and a geist of saint traft
devour flesh: same as above, with the upside that this deck doesn't care about the opponent's life total, and can used on our creatures as well for a blowout/emergency save.
shred memory: i felt that with the loss of entomb we could use another tutor. this one goes to fetch mainly engines (fauna shaman, dark confidant), discard (hymn to tourach, brain maggot), removal (black sun's zenith, bile blight) and all of the usual suspects. if you have the mana, you could go for demonic tutor and for what you really needed).

on the chopping block:
diabolic edict, thrun, the last troll, noxious revival.

what i'm looking for now is a way to use the same game plan even when varolz has been killed into oblivion. so far unspeakable symbol is the closest to what i think i need.

Do you guys think that Curse of Predation is something worth considering? (Seems mediocre but I like digging ideas in depth and +1/+1 on infect creatures is never something to scoff at, I'm guessing it's only really worth it if you have multiple creatures to attack with, also depends if we attack that often or not, maybe it could make attacking easier for us.)

on the chopping block:
diabolic edict, thrun, the last troll, noxious revival.

On another note, why are you considering dropping them in favor of other cards? And what would you replace them with?

curse of predation seems a bit slow to me. it's not like we're using bitterblossom or another token generator, it doesn't help the main game plan and suffers from mass removal (which is very often killing varolz too). also i usually mulligan away elves if i have more than 1 in hand, so i don't consider openings like elf, elf, elf, curse of predation. i would run Skullbriar, the Walking Grave instead, because it's another threat and better synergizes with the rest of the deck.

besides, i forgot to add to the list merciless executioner instead of victim of night, will edit the list shortly. during the last tournament i wanted to fetch an answer to a lone geist with survival, and forgot i didn't include it. better than fleshbag marauder because of cavern of souls naming warrior.

diabolic edict it's just the least versatile of the edicts I run (the other being liliana, merciless executioner and devour flesh). also isn't always a solution for voltron decks, as they usually run support creatures like mother of runes etc.

thrun, the last troll is really heavy, and suffers from wraths just as much as varolz does. the 4 cost doesn't help and its really not necessary unless when faced against blue. some late versions of the deck by the owner of this thread got rid of him for those reasons.

noxious revival is a card i wish to see only when i dumped a dreadnaught and my opponent is trying to exile it. or when i know what my opponent has in hand and i need the next turn to win, so i'm making him topdeck a land. it's been rare that i actually needed to reuse a card from the graveyard at the cost of a draw step, so i'm not really convinced of its utility.

as for cards to bring in, you have convinced me to try unspeakable symbol so there's one. as for others, i have not made up my mind at all, just waiting for suggestions myself

i don't really like invigorate in here (i'd rather go with rancor instead), and you can't really do that with berserk because it needs to be cast during combat only. but i see the angle you see in the card. sadly with entomb gone, it losed a lot in versatility.

just noticed that Gatekeeper of Malakir might be even better than merciless executioner. i might even cut devour flesh or just be done with diabolic edict. subbed in the list before.

Quote from buddha84 »

you can't really do that with berserk because it needs to be cast during combat only. but i see the angle you see in the card. sadly with entomb gone, it losed a lot in versatility

Actually, it can be done; Berserk can only be cast before the combat damage step, true, but it can still be cast at any time (and/or multiple times) before that step occurs :]

I actually like the idea of Berserk in here and would even recommend trying Tainted Strike since they each effectively supplement a single big Scavenge (which could potentially make closing out the game much easier), though you're right; losing Entomb makes them both much less useful, sadly

seems like i've been reading berserk wrong for all this time - it just states that it needs to be played before the combat damage phase, but not only in combat. good catch.

i'm mulling about yisan in here, to be used as a death's shadow/dreadnaught on the first activation and a tarmogoyf on the second as a plain beater for plan b. i don't own a tarmo, so i won't be able to test it though.

as for another threats, i was thinking about pack rat, if only it wasn't vulnerable to wraths. it might even warrant the inclusion of mutavault in here, but i'm undecided. (besides, i just saw a sweet build of tiny leaders varolz with 15 relentless rats - pack rat still has its power defined by the number of rats in play so that's good for scavenge)

dark dephts and vampire hexmage were tested by the original owner of the thread, and were cut afterwards, mainly because of the clunkiness of dark depths.

i'm also interested in the inclusion of display of dominance, i just wonder about its worth in here.

i'd also play triumph of the hordes before tainted strike.

i'm having my eye on jarad, golgari lich lord. could be a beater on its own, and also a recurrable fling for 7 mana out of nowhere (or more realistically over the course of 2 turns).

-double post-

Mulling the idea of raven's crime and life from the loam as alternate win condition (considering wasteland is in here already). i wouldn't know if put in the cicle lands as well, i wouldn't want too many lands etb tapped.

i do think so - as far as i've looked around, it seems that in (almost) the same color combination tasigur seem preferred.
i still prefer varolz though, just because of his potential to win the game from almost anywhere.

update with BFZ:

Blighted Fen replacing one other land. since lands are tutorable, one other sacrifice effect can't do much harm.

i'm not playing much magic at the moment, but when the next commander league will start at my lgs i'll be there. if i get to the finals, which are done with duel commander decks, i'm going to whip out varolz one more time. it made me win both leagues i played in so far.

as for an updated list, there is none at the moment, i still have the deck i listed above, with the latest inclusion of unspeakable symbol, which i haven't tested yet. my plan for now is just to add blighted fen and tinker with it some more in some months.

edit:almost forgot to answer your questions.
control matchups are grindy, you -need- to know your opponent doesn't have an answer in hand before killing him (figures). discard and liliana work wonders against them, worst case scenario they waste a counter to not discard. you also have cavern of souls and some way to tutor it. if you have enough control decks in your meta, thrun becomes a legitimate plan b. beware of armageddons though.

animar is another combo deck. which is stopped by killing its key creatures before he can recur them for the win. i never faced him in duel commander, but i suppose that it is slower than varolz as far as closing the game goes.