Generals can't be killed by clones, thus making Hexproof generals stronger in general and also weakens some U-based decks that can't get rid of Hexproof generals unless they wrath or cast a mass bounce effect.
Vesuva lost one of it's useful options, but it will be nice to copy opposing cradles.
It will also enable interesting battles between PWs that will afect control mirrors in case that the situation happens.
Comments, predictions thoughts??
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Legacy Decks:
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander: GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG GW The Captain WG GWB Karadores BWG GWU Jenara UWG UWB Oloro-DD BWU
- Geist of Saint Traft becomes harder to kill. Before people start worrying about the power level of this commander (the rules committee will of course try to playtest this heavily in next weeks), I want to say that I personnally think that Geist will probably not raise to a ban-worthy power level, because it remains a fragile body that can be blocked in numerous ways. And remember that the clones were also one of Geist's greatest weapons too.
Totally agree. These changes will make Geist weaker in some areas but stronger in others (turn 3 Geist, turn 4 Phantasmal Image your own geist with counter backup, anyone?)
These changes are annoying, but likely proper in the long run. I will miss stopping a Jitte with another Jitte... and Zur becomes muuuuch harder to kill.
Playtestings will tell us if I am right about this or if I am wrong. Gaka, if you read this, I hope you will practice your Geist deck a lot during next weeks.
Oh yeah, definitely.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
EDIT: Misunderstoood, but I'll just keep it here anyway Uh... >_> Holy **** what........ as if U needed a bit more power
EDIT: Read Emether's post. I'm surprised you see it that way. It only makes Geist more deadly in U/x/x mirrors since you've lost two removals in the deck essentially. If I'm not mistaken, I think that any U/x/x mirror is hard for Geist (Gaka correct me if I'm wrong)? It helps Zur, no, because against it's two less in mirrors which were deadly like say vs Animar or Geist which had ways of getting clones tutored? I feel like this gives any U splash decks a big boost and a big kick in the nuts to Mono U decks.
I'm curious if the cards are still worth running in certain decks (obviously Animar), but things like Zegana where you can just clone huge threats they still might be good despite non-removal part.
French EDH BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB B Braids, Cabal Minion B G Titania, Protector of Argoth G R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us My Street Art
French EDH BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB B Braids, Cabal Minion B G Titania, Protector of Argoth G R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us My Street Art
Hot damn, as the Sisay guy, I've got mixed feelings.
On the one hand, Emether nails it and I totally agree with the rationale behind the changes. If something's not working as intended, tweak away, devs.
On the other hand, I'm more terrified of stolen legends than I am of them being cloned to death (a frequent enough occurrence when the majority of the best decks play 2-3 clone cards, often with some tutoring means). Even if my opponent is only packing 2-4 legends on the average, those legends are in there for good reason. Clones lose their versatility, but how lovely to still be able to gain your own tutoring engine or Linvala or what have you.
And as Gaka mentioned, I often had to kill Jitte by tutoring for Jitte, a card that, when active, is pretty much immediate doom for weenie decks like mine. Definitely gotta keep the Enchantment/Artifact hate strong. Vesuva and Gaea's Cradle were often used by me for removal purposes, too, especially against elf ball.
I don't know what this will all mean for the bigger pictures, all decks considered. Blue players, does this prompt you to want to remove your clones? Or are you reveling in the ability to have a second general and gain abilities you wouldn't normally have? I suspect this won't result in many changes for decks and might not even have a huge impact on blue's power since clones gain a new role. Hmm.
Ahh, thanks, I needed that. I can't ever quite wrap my head around the inner workings of a blue mage. ;P
If others feel similarly, I think that will be great news for non-blue slightly mid-rangey decks like Sisay (except, as noted, in the Animar matchup). DIAF Phantasmal Image.
we'll have to see how it affects the current meta, especially for 1 vs 1. true, it will surely hinder decks which rely on the "clones" as general removal. on the other hand, it might be beneficial on those decks with a lot of legendary creatures. perhaps the best profit will be for the hexproof generals, making them harder to kill. i guess there'll be a lot more appearance for geist of saint traft and sigarda host of herons decks
An overall plus for Commander, but reading about this reminded me of the original Legend rule, which was that the first one trumps everything. Flavor-wise, that made a lot more sense IMO. No, you can't summon Livonya Silone, I already got her here on my side, have fun conjuring up some more War Mammoths or something.
Will be a nice little boost for Sigarda and Thrun, but not nearly enough to make them relevant against the top decks, I don't think.
Little Sigarda is almost inmortal if you make her indestructible. With the recent buffs to midrange/aggro, also Uril zoo could see more play.
I'm glad in general, although this kind of changes are not made with regular commander or DC in mind, I guess Zur and Geist, along with Jenara, will be the best decks of the format.
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Legacy Decks:
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander: GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG GW The Captain WG GWB Karadores BWG GWU Jenara UWG UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Did anyone understand the changes to lands coming into play. Doesn't the new rule break Azusa land combos. I was really confused by the wording. This definitely makes my damia planeswalker deck weaker seeing as I'm out of my best way to kill Geist, Thalia, and animar. Looking at the meta as a whole I think this is good, but it does make me sad since I feel that damia was really really close to competing with the best, but this drop in power, and removal of my best tools isn't goin to help.
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Currently Playing
Modern
No clue
RIP Twin
MTGS Olde Name:
Hruen (apparently it was taken, probably by me about 10 years ago.........)
It's just that with the old rule, you could cast Azusa, then drop your two additional lands of the turn, then if you did bounce+replay or blink your Azusa in the same turn you could play two more additional lands. Which happens in 0,0000001% of the games.
It still works that way under the new rules. What's changed now is that if you play Azusa, drop two lands, then sac it, you can't play a third. Effectively, you're forced to use your default land drop before you can take advantage of bonus drops.
looks like i have even MORE of a reason to make an empress galina merfolk tribal EDH, because i was worried what would happen if they would clone the stolen general
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/248f
Generals can't be killed by clones, thus making Hexproof generals stronger in general and also weakens some U-based decks that can't get rid of Hexproof generals unless they wrath or cast a mass bounce effect.
Vesuva lost one of it's useful options, but it will be nice to copy opposing cradles.
It will also enable interesting battles between PWs that will afect control mirrors in case that the situation happens.
Comments, predictions thoughts??
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
EDIT: Multiple Flagstones of Trokair lost its potency, but that hurts Soul Sisters, not us.
Totally agree. These changes will make Geist weaker in some areas but stronger in others (turn 3 Geist, turn 4 Phantasmal Image your own geist with counter backup, anyone?)
These changes are annoying, but likely proper in the long run. I will miss stopping a Jitte with another Jitte... and Zur becomes muuuuch harder to kill.
Oh yeah, definitely.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Uh... >_> Holy **** what........ as if U needed a bit more power
EDIT: Read Emether's post. I'm surprised you see it that way. It only makes Geist more deadly in U/x/x mirrors since you've lost two removals in the deck essentially. If I'm not mistaken, I think that any U/x/x mirror is hard for Geist (Gaka correct me if I'm wrong)? It helps Zur, no, because against it's two less in mirrors which were deadly like say vs Animar or Geist which had ways of getting clones tutored? I feel like this gives any U splash decks a big boost and a big kick in the nuts to Mono U decks.
I'm curious if the cards are still worth running in certain decks (obviously Animar), but things like Zegana where you can just clone huge threats they still might be good despite non-removal part.
BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW
GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB
B Braids, Cabal Minion B
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
My Street Art
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW
GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB
B Braids, Cabal Minion B
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
My Street Art
It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid...
On the one hand, Emether nails it and I totally agree with the rationale behind the changes. If something's not working as intended, tweak away, devs.
On the other hand, I'm more terrified of stolen legends than I am of them being cloned to death (a frequent enough occurrence when the majority of the best decks play 2-3 clone cards, often with some tutoring means). Even if my opponent is only packing 2-4 legends on the average, those legends are in there for good reason. Clones lose their versatility, but how lovely to still be able to gain your own tutoring engine or Linvala or what have you.
And as Gaka mentioned, I often had to kill Jitte by tutoring for Jitte, a card that, when active, is pretty much immediate doom for weenie decks like mine. Definitely gotta keep the Enchantment/Artifact hate strong. Vesuva and Gaea's Cradle were often used by me for removal purposes, too, especially against elf ball.
I don't know what this will all mean for the bigger pictures, all decks considered. Blue players, does this prompt you to want to remove your clones? Or are you reveling in the ability to have a second general and gain abilities you wouldn't normally have? I suspect this won't result in many changes for decks and might not even have a huge impact on blue's power since clones gain a new role. Hmm.
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
If others feel similarly, I think that will be great news for non-blue slightly mid-rangey decks like Sisay (except, as noted, in the Animar matchup). DIAF Phantasmal Image.
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Will be a nice little boost for Sigarda and Thrun, but not nearly enough to make them relevant against the top decks, I don't think.
I'm glad in general, although this kind of changes are not made with regular commander or DC in mind, I guess Zur and Geist, along with Jenara, will be the best decks of the format.
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
Modern
No clue
RIP Twin
MTGS Olde Name:
Hruen (apparently it was taken, probably by me about 10 years ago.........)
It still works that way under the new rules. What's changed now is that if you play Azusa, drop two lands, then sac it, you can't play a third. Effectively, you're forced to use your default land drop before you can take advantage of bonus drops.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)