Playing Oloro: T1: Island Sol Ring T2: Mana Crypt Island - capsize with buyback. gg?
Yes, people will quit for the smallest reasons. Heck, I can't tell you how many times people have blocked me for certain decks I play.
No penalty....just remake or join another game.
Wow. I can't believe players mulligan until they get this type of opening hand or quit.
I guess in MTGO there is no penalty for quitting if they don't get this type of opening hand? (I don't play MTGO.)
Also, why is using an off-color fetchland a good thing? If you put Windswept Heath into a Kaalia deck, are you expecting to pull a Sacred Foundry with it? I have had games where I pulled all my on-color shocklands already, so Windswept Heath would only get me a basic Plains.
Every fetch in your hand has the ability of being any colours you need. Crack w/x fetch? Find w/b or w/r dual. And etc. this is of course why the optimal mana base is so important, as the ease of making any colours we need becomes an afterthought.
And yes, the MODO community is kind of terrible. But that comes with the territory of all online games. Anytime you play under anonymity, you have players that will do w/e with little regard for the other (you are, after all, just a faceless computer screen to them). This is partly why I've developed the "I'm gonna play this as hard as I can, and you either are at this level, or you're not" mentality.
Back to mana base, one thing I have noticed with my decks online are more consistency when:
1) less ETB lands - IIRC 3drinks said that 3 etb are the max. But make sure they have some kind of benefit (ie scry lands).
2) More fetches (including off color fetches) - Having a dual land plus a fetch allowed me to be able to cast everything on curve.
3) duals/lands that produce multiple colors - one example is filter lands: Graven Cairns and Shadowblood Ridge
I'd even do this one step further and say two EBT lands max; that's why I cut B-Bog for the Triland (with Angel of Finality's print of course).
but i swear sometimes when i join/host a game, my opponent will mulligan until he/she gets a hand like the one described above and if he/she doesn't get it, it's an instant concession. i then go back out to the lobby to start a new game, and it's the same person doing the same thing. it's really frustrating since i am just hoping for some land and something decent to start the game with.
This happens all the time. My friends and all play modern and EDH. Turn 1 Thoughtseize - they concede. Early strip mine, gg (no matter if they have loads of lands in hand). In EDH, they aren't on the play, they leave (because you get to play and draw in online EDH - which is broken).
Truthfully, I can be like that sometimes as well. When I mull to five or six and see a t1 'Seize/t2 Hymn. When I t1 'Seize and see a grip of permission, Supreme Verdict, and lands.
ajprokos and 3drinks, thanks for the explanation. I only have the on-color shocklands (RB, RW, BW), but if you include ABU on-color dual lands, then there are 6 targets for fetchlands. Unfortunately, I can't afford ABU duals, which is why I never really bothered to add off-color fetchlands. Geez, that would mean I need Windswept Heath (W), Flooded Strand (W), Wooded Foothills (R), Scalding Tarn (R), Verdant Catacombs (B), and Polluted Delta (B).
ajprokos and 3drinks, thanks for the explanation. I only have the on-color shocklands (RB, RW, BW), but if you include ABU on-color dual lands, then there are 6 targets for fetchlands. Unfortunately, I can't afford ABU duals, which is why I never really bothered to add off-color fetchlands. Geez, that would mean I need Windswept Heath (W), Flooded Strand (W), Wooded Foothills (R), Scalding Tarn (R), Verdant Catacombs (B), and Polluted Delta (B).
ajprokos and 3drinks, thanks for the explanation. I only have the on-color shocklands (RB, RW, BW), but if you include ABU on-color dual lands, then there are 6 targets for fetchlands. Unfortunately, I can't afford ABU duals, which is why I never really bothered to add off-color fetchlands. Geez, that would mean I need Windswept Heath (W), Flooded Strand (W), Wooded Foothills (R), Scalding Tarn (R), Verdant Catacombs (B), and Polluted Delta (B).
Thanks for suggesting other non-ETB tapped dual lands. I already have Dragonskull Summit, Clifftop Retreat and Isolated Chapel. Graven Cairns seems to be the only filter land from Lorwyn that is still under $10. o_O Too bad the other on-color Lorwyn filter lands are too expensive.
I'll have to look into those as well as the other filter lands. Thanks.
Crux of Fate 3BB
Sorcery Choose one —
• Destroy all Dragon creatures.
• Destroy all non-Dragon creatures.
High CMC, however, unique board wipe.
It's useful in the Draconic Kaalia build, but it's probably not useful in a standard Kaalia build, as it wipes out too many of our cards. And at 5 mana, there are better sweepers.
It's the closest we've seen to a Damnation reprint without actually being Damnation. That said we're very fortunate in that we can be picky with our sweepers; we have access to all of the best (minus Supreme Verdict). That said Shiroe may be on to something in the Draconic version. Maybe. It still is subpar even with the synergy it has.
If we're even remotely lucky, we might see Damnation in MM2015, but considering Wizards's design philosophy of slowing down mass removal in general, we're not likely to see it or anything like it printed in Standard-block product. We might see it again in a future "booster lottery supplementary product like Conspiracy. (I don't think it's ever going to be in a Commander pre-con deck.)
On the subject of ppl quitting MTGO, a couple weeks ago I was playing against Mayael using a different deck (Daretti). I play a Blood Moon and the other player message me saying "not cool" and "don't join again with that card in your deck" before quitting.
That's why I typically prefer to playing in person, Cuz ppl usually don't rage quit (as often) like they do online.
If we're even remotely lucky, we might see Damnation in MM2015, but considering Wizards's design philosophy of slowing down mass removal in general, we're not likely to see it or anything like it printed in Standard-block product. We might see it again in a future "booster lottery supplementary product like Conspiracy. (I don't think it's ever going to be in a Commander pre-con deck.)
On the subject of ppl quitting MTGO, a couple weeks ago I was playing against Mayael using a different deck (Daretti). I play a Blood Moon and the other player message me saying "not cool" and "don't join again with that card in your deck" before quitting.
That's why I typically prefer to playing in person, Cuz ppl usually don't rage quit (as often) like they do online.
It's a shame people want to play all the best mana fixing while having no backup plan when someone attacks that. I suspect they'd have the same reaction to a Back to Basics as well. Hate cards are hate -- you either learn to play against them, or you run away. But running won't help you to deal with them. So many on MODO don't understand this mantra though and would rather play their big dumb deck with no regard for the consequences.
On the subject of ppl quitting MTGO, a couple weeks ago I was playing against Mayael using a different deck (Daretti). I play a Blood Moon and the other player message me saying "not cool" and "don't join again with that card in your deck" before quitting. That's why I typically prefer to playing in person, Cuz ppl usually don't rage quit (as often) like they do online.
I play humility and most people go "gg, deck can't beat that card" ---
@4 cmc mass sweepers: no, they will not be printing stuff like this in standard anymore. IF they do, there would be a major drawback.
Speaking of Blood Moon, how does a Kaalia deck, rich with nonbasic mana lands, deal with Blood Moon? 3drinks's deck list has 6 basic lands. If Blood Moon comes down early, we won't be able to use fetchlands to fetch our basics, and there are only a few mana artifacts.
My deck currently has 15 basic lands, and in a casual game, the table was hit with a Blood Moon on turn 3. I had enough basic lands to weather through the situation until I drew the right colors to cast a spell to kill the enchantment (the other players had nothing to deal with the enchantment and were also neutered).
Speaking of Blood Moon, how does a Kaalia deck, rich with nonbasic mana lands, deal with Blood Moon? 3drinks's deck list has 6 basic lands. If Blood Moon comes down early, we won't be able to use fetchlands to fetch our basics, and there are only a few mana artifacts.
My deck currently has 15 basic lands, and in a casual game, the table was hit with a Blood Moon on turn 3. I had enough basic lands to weather through the situation until I drew the right colors to cast a spell to kill the enchantment (the other players had nothing to deal with the enchantment and were also neutered).
Moon effects are always a problem for a 3c deck. It's a weakness much the same as greedy ramp decks are cold to Force Spikes. My suggestion is if a deck could reasonably be expected to have a Moon, then fetch accordingly (another reason why having the full suite of nine fetchlands is relevant). This is very subjective and requires a bit more forethought and prediction, but is a very rewarding player experience once you start doing it. Additionally (and this is my own tech that I have only seen a small handful of players use), if you have the removal in hand then float the necessary colour, let the Moon resolve, then play the Wear/Tear when they try to move to the next phase.
Thanks for the input 3drinks. Since this was a casual game, I'm likely to see that deck again in the future, so I will play accordingly. I have added Flooded Strand and Windswept Heath to increase my chances of drawing them to be able to fetch something.
Yo, what's up. Kaalia is such a fun lady to play Magic with and playing her is quite the departure from my normal playstyle of control+combo. Turning big, fat fliers is really quite a lot of fun. I've noticed that you've also redirected a number of other Kaalia players to consult your Primer here in both the 1v1 forums as well as the multi-player forums. Does that make you the Monopolist of Kaalia? Haha. The reason that I point this out is because I want to be able to link my current multi-player list but there aren't many active threads there that aren't your list. So I wanted to know if it's appropriate to post my list here even though this is technically a 1v1 Primer. What's the word?
Yo, what's up. Kaalia is such a fun lady to play Magic with and playing her is quite the departure from my normal playstyle of control+combo. Turning big, fat fliers is really quite a lot of fun. I've noticed that you've also redirected a number of other Kaalia players to consult your Primer here in both the 1v1 forums as well as the multi-player forums. Does that make you the Monopolist of Kaalia? Haha. The reason that I point this out is because I want to be able to link my current multi-player list but there aren't many active threads there that aren't your list. So I wanted to know if it's appropriate to post my list here even though this is technically a 1v1 Primer. What's the word?
I don't really have a problem with that (I'd put your list in spoiler tags, though). My goal is to make this THE hub for information regarding Kaalia and, while I'm not a multiplayer aficionado as it were, I still feel I have an intimate enough understanding of the commander to be a suitable home for your discussion as well. And, I totes understand your problem with the multiplayer threads. A lot of lists are posted in the forums and abandoned (both Kaalia and other commanders too) while my Primer is one of the few that is well maintained and refreshed by an active player. *points to member title*
I am, after all, the "Personal Liaison to Kaalia of the Vast".
Indeed you are. How did you come by that title, I wonder? Kaalia seems like a very particular lady to have picked you as her liaison to the rest of the world, haha.
In looking at this list, bear in mind that I play in an extremely blue meta and the most common decks I play against are Animar and Azami. This deck is sculpted to that end, and thus some of the card choices that I have. Also, I am the only one who runs any actually fliers in my playgroup, so the one dragon that pings your opponent's fliers isn't useful outside of its cheaper flying body for me. Any questions about specific cards in this list I would be happy to explain.
In looking at this list, bear in mind that I play in an extremely blue meta and the most common decks I play against are Animar and Azami. This deck is sculpted to that end, and thus some of the card choices that I have. Also, I am the only one who runs any actually fliers in my playgroup, so the one dragon that pings your opponent's fliers isn't useful outside of its cheaper flying body for me. Any questions about specific cards in this list I would be happy to explain.
If your meta is primarily blue, perhaps you should get Defense Grid which is in 3drinks's list.
Utvara Hellkite and Aurelia the Warleader have flameblast syndrome. Consider replacing them with something else. Their abilities do not trigger if you put them on the battlefield with Kaalia's ability. If you end up hardcasting them, there are other creatures that have better ETB abilities. Any creature you hardcast that doesn't have haste has to wait up to three of your opponent's turns (assuming a 4-player game) before you can attack with them. If a A/D/D does not bring immediate value when it ETB, that creature is at a serious disadvantage. The counter-argument made by some players is that they may attract removal, but then you've spent 6-7 mana to force an opponent to cast a 2-4 CMC removal spell. That is a tempo loss for you.
In looking at this list, bear in mind that I play in an extremely blue meta and the most common decks I play against are Animar and Azami. This deck is sculpted to that end, and thus some of the card choices that I have. Also, I am the only one who runs any actually fliers in my playgroup, so the one dragon that pings your opponent's fliers isn't useful outside of its cheaper flying body for me. Any questions about specific cards in this list I would be happy to explain.
If your meta is primarily blue, perhaps you should get Defense Grid which is in 3drinks's list.
Utvara Hellkite and Aurelia the Warleader have flameblast syndrome. Consider replacing them with something else. Their abilities do not trigger if you put them on the battlefield with Kaalia's ability. If you end up hardcasting them, there are other creatures that have better ETB abilities. Any creature you hardcast that doesn't have haste has to wait up to three of your opponent's turns (assuming a 4-player game) before you can attack with them. If a A/D/D does not bring immediate value when it ETB, that creature is at a serious disadvantage. The counter-argument made by some players is that they may attract removal, but then you've spent 6-7 mana to force an opponent to cast a 2-4 CMC removal spell. That is a tempo loss for you.
I like Coldsteel Heart. Good flavor text, good art, and does the most important thing this deck needs to do: ensure a T3 Kaalia.
Defense Grid is pretty awesome. I kinda forgot that card existed. It should slide in somehow.
Utvara Hellkite and Aurelia, the Warleader surely suffer from Flameblast Syndrome. I recognize that. However, I really like the ability that Utvara Hellkite brings in spawning a massive army if left alone. In conjunction with Aurelia and other extra combat step enablers, the Hellkite can really overwhelm game and I've done that a number of times. My playgroup is kinda weird in that there isn't a lot of spot removal (excepting myself) running around. It's primarily a combo meta where counterspells are way more common than removal spells, which I think is unusual to say the least. This means that permanents that I can resolve or somehow get into play usually stick around for quite a while. This makes Flameblast Syndrome a little more bearable/tolerable with my playgroup. Aurelia has won me 6 games out of the many that I have played which makes her kinda hard to cut. Hardcasting her and then swinging twice with her and Kaalia has helped me to kill a player as early as T5 before (usually the biggest blue player) which makes killing the rest of the table easier. While I am not ignoring your very accurate comment about the tempo loss that should occur when I play said cards, I have found that it isn't as prevalent for my particular group. However, with all that being said, are there other creatures that might be more powerful in their place? I have about 20 cards that I trade in and out of Kaalia and I wonder about some of them. For example, there are some A/D/D that I have but aren't played because I haven't really tutored for and/or drawn them during any game:
I also think it might be useful to describe, at least briefly, the basic strategy that I use during the course of a multi-player game. I think that it's imperative to consistently attack a player until they're dead; otherwise, you're spreading damage across too many people to be very effective at doing the aggro thing. 3 Opponents and 120 life is a lot of life to chew through, even for a Kaalia deck. This means that I need to maximize the damage that I can do on my turn; Aurelia, the Warleader, Waves of Aggression, and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight become very important cards in my deck (I really should add Aggravated Assault so I have a repeatable source of extra combat steps). Utvara Hellkite being able to generate more big flying bodies is very strong with the strategy outlined. So I tend to attack one player and then kill that player as quickly as possible with my creatures while I spend my removal and other cards at other opponent's to try and slow them down until I can turn my dudes sideways at them. This is a major reason why there are some really bomby discard spells (Mind Twist and Identity Crisis) that I play that wouldn't normally be optimal in a multi-player setting; they severely cripple a player until I can concentrate my Kaalia Horde on them. I think that's one of the reasons that symmetrical mass land destruction is so powerful in Kaalia; you force people to sit still while you are eating them (in the case of demons or dragons) or slicing them apart (for angels) with the Horde that grows simply by turning Kaalia sideways. This means that whoever is the fastest combo player or the person with the most counterspells is generally the first person dead at the table. Or the person I and/or the table is most wary of. If I am not being ganged up on by the whole table, that is, hahaha. That happens A LOT. It's almost every single game now where I'm the Archenemy without the cards...
Indeed you are. How did you come by that title, I wonder? Kaalia seems like a very particular lady to have picked you as her liaison to the rest of the world, haha.
Haha. I think I saw some other title on another board, so I extrapolated that to fit me here. And it's true lol - anytime I play another Commander, I always feel like I'm cheating on Kaalia. <3 (Even if I do love my Bolas "tap out" control, and the simplicity of Thalia WW).
As for the Adarkar/Tariel question you posted. They both have a kind of "Flameblast Syndrome". In a way, they're similar to Necropolis Fiend in how they're executed, except that Fiend offers us removal while Tariel is "uncontrolled" and Adarkar is reactive to our opponent's cards. That said I am thinking that Necropolis Fiend isn't helping enough and I will likely replace it with Angel of Despair, once again (Iona is still more cute than practical, in this developed, multicolour, eternal format).
As for the Adarkar/Tariel question you posted. They both have a kind of "Flameblast Syndrome". In a way, they're similar to Necropolis Fiend in how they're executed, except that Fiend offers us removal while Tariel is "uncontrolled" and Adarkar is reactive to our opponent's cards. That said I am thinking that Necropolis Fiend isn't helping enough and I will likely replace it with Angel of Despair, once again (Iona is still more cute than practical, in this developed, multicolour, eternal format).
I never found Necropolis Fiend to be useful. If you launch it from Kaalia, it's tapped, so unless you can untap it, you can't use its ability. If you hardcast it with Delve and Hall of the Bandit Lord, you can use its ability immediately, but if you can't give it haste, it sits there until your next turn. I think Angel of Despair is still a good card. I know you felt that after you play Angel of Despair in 1 vs. 1, it's just a 5/5 vanilla, but I could say the same happens to Rune-Scarred Demon. I guess you value the tutor effect more than vindicate effect in 1 vs. 1. However, I think the value of these ETB creatures really shine when you use your reanimation package in multiplayer and recur them, which I'm sure you are aware of already.
Quote from benjameenbear »
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls
Adarkar Valkyrie
Kuro, Pitlord
I stopped using these a long time ago. Tariel costs too much and its effect is a random control, so it's not guaranteed to grab anything useful. I used to use Adarkar Valkyrie, but as 3drinks noted, it's a reactive card and it only works on the turn a creature died. Kuro's upkeep requirement is too steep to maintain.
If Aurelia and Utvara is working in your meta, then there is nothing any of us can say to convince you otherwise. Stick to what works for you. That's perfectly fine. The suggestions by 3drinks (and the rest of us) are made from a competitive viewpoint where the "best of the best" cards show up. We're assuming that the meta a Kaalia player is entering is highly competitive, so only the best cards get into the Kaalia deck. So, please do not feel that you have to defend yourself from every suggestion that runs counter to your decklist. You came here for advice and suggestions, and we're giving them to you. Pick and choose the advice that will work for you in your meta.
Yeah, that's exactly it Shiroe. Despair remains a good creature, for sure. Adding it makes me want to re-add Disciple of Bolas, because we don't have a lot of use for just a 5/5 french vanilla afterward (and rune-scarred is better, and it's not close). I won't, because Disciple isn't consistent enough with our threat density.
Yes, people will quit for the smallest reasons. Heck, I can't tell you how many times people have blocked me for certain decks I play.
No penalty....just remake or join another game.
Off-color fetches - worst case scenario, grab a basic land. Perfect scenario, you can grab 4 duals: Godless Shrine, Plateau, Sacred Foundry, Scrubland
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Every fetch in your hand has the ability of being any colours you need. Crack w/x fetch? Find w/b or w/r dual. And etc. this is of course why the optimal mana base is so important, as the ease of making any colours we need becomes an afterthought.
And yes, the MODO community is kind of terrible. But that comes with the territory of all online games. Anytime you play under anonymity, you have players that will do w/e with little regard for the other (you are, after all, just a faceless computer screen to them). This is partly why I've developed the "I'm gonna play this as hard as I can, and you either are at this level, or you're not" mentality.
I'd even do this one step further and say two EBT lands max; that's why I cut B-Bog for the Triland (with Angel of Finality's print of course).
Truthfully, I can be like that sometimes as well. When I mull to five or six and see a t1 'Seize/t2 Hymn. When I t1 'Seize and see a grip of permission, Supreme Verdict, and lands.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
totally understand. I am in the same boat. I use other non etb tapped "double color lands": example: all RB lands: Shadowblood Ridge,Blackcleave Cliffs, Dragonskull Summit, Graven Cairns, Tainted Peak, Sulfurous Springs
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Crux of Fate 3BB
Sorcery Choose one —
• Destroy all Dragon creatures.
• Destroy all non-Dragon creatures.
High CMC, however, unique board wipe.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
Thanks for suggesting other non-ETB tapped dual lands. I already have Dragonskull Summit, Clifftop Retreat and Isolated Chapel. Graven Cairns seems to be the only filter land from Lorwyn that is still under $10. o_O Too bad the other on-color Lorwyn filter lands are too expensive.
I'll have to look into those as well as the other filter lands. Thanks.
It's useful in the Draconic Kaalia build, but it's probably not useful in a standard Kaalia build, as it wipes out too many of our cards. And at 5 mana, there are better sweepers.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Mutilate is probably going to be the black pseudo-sweeper at the 4-mana slot. Everything else will probably be like Life's Finale or Extinguish All Hope.
That's why I typically prefer to playing in person, Cuz ppl usually don't rage quit (as often) like they do online.
[EDH Non-Primers] Newzuri | Breya
I don't think MM2 includes cards from Time Spiral block, so no Damnation.
It's a shame people want to play all the best mana fixing while having no backup plan when someone attacks that. I suspect they'd have the same reaction to a Back to Basics as well. Hate cards are hate -- you either learn to play against them, or you run away. But running won't help you to deal with them. So many on MODO don't understand this mantra though and would rather play their big dumb deck with no regard for the consequences.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I play humility and most people go "gg, deck can't beat that card" ---
@4 cmc mass sweepers: no, they will not be printing stuff like this in standard anymore. IF they do, there would be a major drawback.
We still have my favorite @ 3 cmc: Toxic Deluge
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
My deck currently has 15 basic lands, and in a casual game, the table was hit with a Blood Moon on turn 3. I had enough basic lands to weather through the situation until I drew the right colors to cast a spell to kill the enchantment (the other players had nothing to deal with the enchantment and were also neutered).
I'll always champion the use of Fire Covenant over this.
Moon effects are always a problem for a 3c deck. It's a weakness much the same as greedy ramp decks are cold to Force Spikes. My suggestion is if a deck could reasonably be expected to have a Moon, then fetch accordingly (another reason why having the full suite of nine fetchlands is relevant). This is very subjective and requires a bit more forethought and prediction, but is a very rewarding player experience once you start doing it. Additionally (and this is my own tech that I have only seen a small handful of players use), if you have the removal in hand then float the necessary colour, let the Moon resolve, then play the Wear/Tear when they try to move to the next phase.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I don't really have a problem with that (I'd put your list in spoiler tags, though). My goal is to make this THE hub for information regarding Kaalia and, while I'm not a multiplayer aficionado as it were, I still feel I have an intimate enough understanding of the commander to be a suitable home for your discussion as well. And, I totes understand your problem with the multiplayer threads. A lot of lists are posted in the forums and abandoned (both Kaalia and other commanders too) while my Primer is one of the few that is well maintained and refreshed by an active player. *points to member title*
I am, after all, the "Personal Liaison to Kaalia of the Vast".
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Anyways, the list:
Creatures (Non A/D/D)
1 Mother of Runes
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Academy Rector
1 Sun Titan
A/D/D Creatures
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Rakdos the Defiler
1 Lord of the Void
1 Master of Cruelties
1 Harvester of Souls
1 Hellkite Tyrant
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Hoard-Smelter Dragon
1 Scourge of Kher Ridges
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
1 Angel of Despair
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldknight
1 Karmic Guide
1 Avacyn, Angel of Hope
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 True Conviction
Artifacts
1 Sol Ring
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Boros Signet
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Fire Diamond
1 Marble Diamond
1 Talisman of Indulgence
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Coalition Relic
1 Quicksilver Amulet
1 Erratic Portal
Instants
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Unexpectedly Absent
1 Crackling Doom
1 Mind Twist
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Vindicate
1 Read the Bones
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Thoughts of Ruin
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Armageddon
1 Ancient Craving
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Waves of Aggression
1 Catastrophe
1 Identity Crisis
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
sorry, I was referencing Esper.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
If your meta is primarily blue, perhaps you should get Defense Grid which is in 3drinks's list.
Coalition Relic might be a tad too slow. Try Fellwar Stone and Coldsteeel Heart from 3drink's list as well.
Utvara Hellkite and Aurelia the Warleader have flameblast syndrome. Consider replacing them with something else. Their abilities do not trigger if you put them on the battlefield with Kaalia's ability. If you end up hardcasting them, there are other creatures that have better ETB abilities. Any creature you hardcast that doesn't have haste has to wait up to three of your opponent's turns (assuming a 4-player game) before you can attack with them. If a A/D/D does not bring immediate value when it ETB, that creature is at a serious disadvantage. The counter-argument made by some players is that they may attract removal, but then you've spent 6-7 mana to force an opponent to cast a 2-4 CMC removal spell. That is a tempo loss for you.
I like Coldsteel Heart. Good flavor text, good art, and does the most important thing this deck needs to do: ensure a T3 Kaalia.
Defense Grid is pretty awesome. I kinda forgot that card existed. It should slide in somehow.
Utvara Hellkite and Aurelia, the Warleader surely suffer from Flameblast Syndrome. I recognize that. However, I really like the ability that Utvara Hellkite brings in spawning a massive army if left alone. In conjunction with Aurelia and other extra combat step enablers, the Hellkite can really overwhelm game and I've done that a number of times. My playgroup is kinda weird in that there isn't a lot of spot removal (excepting myself) running around. It's primarily a combo meta where counterspells are way more common than removal spells, which I think is unusual to say the least. This means that permanents that I can resolve or somehow get into play usually stick around for quite a while. This makes Flameblast Syndrome a little more bearable/tolerable with my playgroup. Aurelia has won me 6 games out of the many that I have played which makes her kinda hard to cut. Hardcasting her and then swinging twice with her and Kaalia has helped me to kill a player as early as T5 before (usually the biggest blue player) which makes killing the rest of the table easier. While I am not ignoring your very accurate comment about the tempo loss that should occur when I play said cards, I have found that it isn't as prevalent for my particular group. However, with all that being said, are there other creatures that might be more powerful in their place? I have about 20 cards that I trade in and out of Kaalia and I wonder about some of them. For example, there are some A/D/D that I have but aren't played because I haven't really tutored for and/or drawn them during any game:
I also think it might be useful to describe, at least briefly, the basic strategy that I use during the course of a multi-player game. I think that it's imperative to consistently attack a player until they're dead; otherwise, you're spreading damage across too many people to be very effective at doing the aggro thing. 3 Opponents and 120 life is a lot of life to chew through, even for a Kaalia deck. This means that I need to maximize the damage that I can do on my turn; Aurelia, the Warleader, Waves of Aggression, and Gisela, Blade of Goldnight become very important cards in my deck (I really should add Aggravated Assault so I have a repeatable source of extra combat steps). Utvara Hellkite being able to generate more big flying bodies is very strong with the strategy outlined. So I tend to attack one player and then kill that player as quickly as possible with my creatures while I spend my removal and other cards at other opponent's to try and slow them down until I can turn my dudes sideways at them. This is a major reason why there are some really bomby discard spells (Mind Twist and Identity Crisis) that I play that wouldn't normally be optimal in a multi-player setting; they severely cripple a player until I can concentrate my Kaalia Horde on them. I think that's one of the reasons that symmetrical mass land destruction is so powerful in Kaalia; you force people to sit still while you are eating them (in the case of demons or dragons) or slicing them apart (for angels) with the Horde that grows simply by turning Kaalia sideways. This means that whoever is the fastest combo player or the person with the most counterspells is generally the first person dead at the table. Or the person I and/or the table is most wary of. If I am not being ganged up on by the whole table, that is, hahaha. That happens A LOT. It's almost every single game now where I'm the Archenemy without the cards...
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Haha. I think I saw some other title on another board, so I extrapolated that to fit me here. And it's true lol - anytime I play another Commander, I always feel like I'm cheating on Kaalia. <3 (Even if I do love my Bolas "tap out" control, and the simplicity of Thalia WW).
As for the Adarkar/Tariel question you posted. They both have a kind of "Flameblast Syndrome". In a way, they're similar to Necropolis Fiend in how they're executed, except that Fiend offers us removal while Tariel is "uncontrolled" and Adarkar is reactive to our opponent's cards. That said I am thinking that Necropolis Fiend isn't helping enough and I will likely replace it with Angel of Despair, once again (Iona is still more cute than practical, in this developed, multicolour, eternal format).
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I never found Necropolis Fiend to be useful. If you launch it from Kaalia, it's tapped, so unless you can untap it, you can't use its ability. If you hardcast it with Delve and Hall of the Bandit Lord, you can use its ability immediately, but if you can't give it haste, it sits there until your next turn. I think Angel of Despair is still a good card. I know you felt that after you play Angel of Despair in 1 vs. 1, it's just a 5/5 vanilla, but I could say the same happens to Rune-Scarred Demon. I guess you value the tutor effect more than vindicate effect in 1 vs. 1. However, I think the value of these ETB creatures really shine when you use your reanimation package in multiplayer and recur them, which I'm sure you are aware of already.
I stopped using these a long time ago. Tariel costs too much and its effect is a random control, so it's not guaranteed to grab anything useful. I used to use Adarkar Valkyrie, but as 3drinks noted, it's a reactive card and it only works on the turn a creature died. Kuro's upkeep requirement is too steep to maintain.
If Aurelia and Utvara is working in your meta, then there is nothing any of us can say to convince you otherwise. Stick to what works for you. That's perfectly fine. The suggestions by 3drinks (and the rest of us) are made from a competitive viewpoint where the "best of the best" cards show up. We're assuming that the meta a Kaalia player is entering is highly competitive, so only the best cards get into the Kaalia deck. So, please do not feel that you have to defend yourself from every suggestion that runs counter to your decklist. You came here for advice and suggestions, and we're giving them to you. Pick and choose the advice that will work for you in your meta.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.