Yea, the OP definitely needs updating. It's been on my todo list for a while, albeit low. I'm going to do a proper primer and breakdown after Khans is out.
As far as Man-o-War' goes, he's weaker than Dream Stalker and Arctic Merfolk because he costs 3, and targets. Of those, I would rank Arctic Merfolk higher than Dream Stalker because the bounce effect doesn't pass priority. Aside from mana costs, it's very relevant that Dream Stalker and co. do not target, forcing your opponent to respond to the trigger and not the choice, making spot removal much less powerful.
I love Rattleclaw Mystic, it's definitely going to make the cut. Netting mana while adding the critical 4th counter puts this akin to Cloud of Faerie (w/out cradle/sprawl etc).
A lot of the deck building decisions revolve around value given cost reduction, and synergies. As long as the curve isn't detrimental, then adding in more value cards makes sense. The decision to cut some value cards, such as Scarecrone and Rofellos happened when the curve was somewhat detrimental, and also before there was a higher emphasis on consistency over sheer speed. Those factors changed, which is why it's worth re-opening the discussion.
What do you guys think about the new spoiler for this? It's cheap and it allows Animar to buff up twice as fast. By just playing a 1 cmc creature, we're able to push out a 3 with one mana after that. Seems like a good addition and worthwhile to test it. Cheers.
I was about to post this card. If I read correctly, it triggers each time you put a counter on Animar, so we have here a one mana Doubling Season or Primal Vigor, right ?
The next question is : is it worth sacrifying a non creature spell for that ?
Yup! Every single time.. Which is why I thought it was worth mentioning. The 1 cmc doubling season is very tempting; however, I wouldn't know what to cut from the list. . Any suggestions?
Took Animar out for a spin today, opponent was on Kaalia and went Sphere of Suns, into Castigate, into Toxic Deluge into Kaalia and still was totally overpowered. Only change is putting a Rattleclaw in, haven't tested Oracle and Momir Vig just yet.
Tried it during our last tournament and even though I didn't draw it (swapped it for Shared Discovery - a card that always seemed a bit "win more" for me) I don't think I like it in the deck. Yeah, it is obviously very good against control decks, but I faced a lot more combo decks or creature based decks where it wouldn't help I imagine...
I see that you're on Oracle of Mul Daya now Jester, any other changes besides that and Rattleclaw? Any thoughts on Cruise or DTT in the Shared Discovery slot?
Hello sir Jester, I'm just starting my Duel EDH carreer. I love animar more than any other commander there is, I was thinking do you think there is a viable build that does not contain Imperial Recruiter and Gaea's Cradle. I'm still tight on those cards as I'm just starting to build the 1v1 version hehe. I was thinking of Kessig Wolf run, somewhat focusing on +1/+1 counters (Voltroning Animar) or maybe a duel toolbox type? Thanks sir Jester, I know that this thread is for animar combo but still I respect you as an Animar Duelist, maybe you can give me tips on Animar build. Thanks sir.
I would like to hear about the past couple mtgsal tournies Jester played in. Losing to decks like Rafiq and Mimeoplasm, color combinations that literally have zero spot removal for Animar, warrants taking a different look at the deck, no? Still don't see how the deck wins without an Animar on the board or resolving a Prime Time, and no way to interact with disruption.
As far as FRF goes, Abzan Beastmaster looks like it has some serious potential but doesn't replace itself immediately so I know it will be dismissed because it doesnt contribute to 'unequivocal long chain intermediary combos from many to many perspectives involving card dynamics' or something like that.
There's always Goodstuff Animar if you want to try a non combo version, but complaining about how a combo deck can't win without one of its main combo pieces (one of which is almost always available) is kind of a ridiculous question.
The question isn't "Why would you do that" it's "How does one overcome this?" and the answer absolutely is not to abandon running combos in Animar EDH, especially when all you have to do is resolve a recruiter with Animar in play in order to put yourself miles ahead, if not winning on the spot. This isn't an opinion, this is fact. So why run a bunch of terrible cards along side it rather than protecting it? I would say the former option is what is truly ridiculous.
Paying 5 and 7 mana for a 1/1 creature really opens you up to losing to counterspells and lightning bolts, and usually requires your entire turn to do, which opens you up to opposing combos. That's not just French EDH, that's not just Animar, that's just magic.
Youre missing my real point which is if you have a general who has protection from both white and black whom you rely on entirely to win, and youre losing to colors that have very minimal removal outside of those colors then there is probably something missing.
EDIT: oh, and i'm definitely not complaining, because these things don't happen to me
That's just two matches, I have a dozen replays of winning against removal and counter heavy decks, stax decks, aggro, etc. And you're just complaining abut what exactly? How to build? There is plenty of variety to choose from, but you haven't actually contributed anything, still just complaints.
See, I can read your post and reply with completely irrelevant things too.
Everything I said is still correct, and my contribution is telling you that this deck is better with disruption of its own. How youre not getting that is beyond me.
If I had to guess which one of our posts was more constructive....I'd say mine. Why are you taking this so personally? and you know, 'complaining'?
See, I can read your post and reply with completely irrelevant things too.
Everything I said is still correct, and my contribution is telling you that this deck is better with disruption of its own. How youre not getting that is beyond me.
If I had to guess which one of our posts was more constructive....I'd say mine. Why are you taking this so personally? and you know, 'complaining'?
"Here are two examples of losses and therefore the entire deck and idea is bad, I mean, losing twice means that you should change everything. I think X is magically better, just X though, nothing specific, but I'm definitely right based on two examples."
It's like going to a Storm thread, saying that AdN and Tendrils are bad, vaguely suggesting something, and going on about how something vague is better. Totally useless.
I'm trying out a Mox switch out from Diamond to Chrome after reading through and trying TES in Legacy. When I'm seeing Mox Diamond early I've only had enough land to use it effectively in about 45% of games.
And it's not magic, its logic, although I could see why there was confusion.
I also run Chrome Mox over Mox Diamond, simply because the deck is very land light and the math says the Mox Diamond isn't actually good here. Being able to pitch a redundant card (things like a second mana dork, ect) is a lot more functional than hoping you flood out with the diamond. When you are going off diamond may be better because excess lands are pointless but not before, which is the part of the game when you arn't already winning.
And as I've said before, that all seems fine in the Animar Goodstuff build, because, as you said, it'd dilute the combo. There are lots of ways to build Animar, Animar Goodstuff is a pretty strong deck all on its own too. I've seen a lot of it on Cockatrice, and I know there's a bigger thread dedicated it on TCGTrade.
I think there is an argument to be made for including more protection in combo Animar. It depends on your meta, but Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, Swan Song, and Painter's Servant are all strong cards when your gameplan is to protect Animar for a turn and combo off. I don't think I would run the 2 mana counters, but there is definitely something to be said for a little more protection.
Attended a 13-man Duel Commander with Jester's List, emerged 3-0-1
Round 1 VS. Mimeoplasm: G1 won with Animar Swings, G2 lost with Necrotic Ooze Combo, G3 won by stealing a turn-two Griselbrand (Gilded Drake).
Round 2 VS. Mimeoplasm: G1 won Biggie Animar Swings, G2 lost to reanimated Griselbrand Swings, unable to finish G3 so Draw.
Round 3 VS. Sigarda: G1 won via Turn 4 Ulamog and Biggie Animar, G2 won with Biggie Animar, with opponent flooded with lands.
Round 4 VS. Marath: G1 lost via Combo (Reveillark + Karmic Guide Shiz), G2 won via Animar Beats + Ulamog (due to paying too much life also from opponent's Sylvan Library), G3 won by turn 4 Ulamog and the rest is history.
Cut to Top 4 VS Prossh: G1 lost with early Craterhoof Behemoth (even without Prossh), G2 opponent conceded considering that I can already draw my whole deck and untap land shenanigans, G3 lost with Craterhoof off a Tutored Pattern of Rebirth.
I'm trying to test more relevant cards (considering our meta here in Philippines) and weighing out cards to temporarily cut.
I think in the last quarter of 2014, he tried testing Rofellos and Oracle of Mul-daya. In this regard, was also thinking what did he cut considering those inclusions.
This was a great set, and block, for Imperial Animar. In fact, have we even talked about Fate Reforged? Not nearly as good, but a few cards caught my attention that I dismissed before but would be interested in testing.
As far as Man-o-War' goes, he's weaker than Dream Stalker and Arctic Merfolk because he costs 3, and targets. Of those, I would rank Arctic Merfolk higher than Dream Stalker because the bounce effect doesn't pass priority. Aside from mana costs, it's very relevant that Dream Stalker and co. do not target, forcing your opponent to respond to the trigger and not the choice, making spot removal much less powerful.
I love Rattleclaw Mystic, it's definitely going to make the cut. Netting mana while adding the critical 4th counter puts this akin to Cloud of Faerie (w/out cradle/sprawl etc).
A lot of the deck building decisions revolve around value given cost reduction, and synergies. As long as the curve isn't detrimental, then adding in more value cards makes sense. The decision to cut some value cards, such as Scarecrone and Rofellos happened when the curve was somewhat detrimental, and also before there was a higher emphasis on consistency over sheer speed. Those factors changed, which is why it's worth re-opening the discussion.
Edit: typo and spoiler fixing
UBR Jeleva Grixis Storm
WBG Karador Boonweaver Combo
WUBRG Food Chain Tazri
Yup! Every single time.. Which is why I thought it was worth mentioning. The 1 cmc doubling season is very tempting; however, I wouldn't know what to cut from the list. . Any suggestions?
UBR Jeleva Grixis Storm
WBG Karador Boonweaver Combo
WUBRG Food Chain Tazri
Like Dualcaster Mage, Grave Shifter, Lifeblood Hydra or Reef Worm??
I think that hydra could be useful, but the GGG cost is expensive. But that card draw...
EDIT: Also, what do you think about adding Keranos, god of storms or Xenagos, god of revels?
Would love to hear Jester's input again as well.
As far as FRF goes, Abzan Beastmaster looks like it has some serious potential but doesn't replace itself immediately so I know it will be dismissed because it doesnt contribute to 'unequivocal long chain intermediary combos from many to many perspectives involving card dynamics' or something like that.
Paying 5 and 7 mana for a 1/1 creature really opens you up to losing to counterspells and lightning bolts, and usually requires your entire turn to do, which opens you up to opposing combos. That's not just French EDH, that's not just Animar, that's just magic.
Youre missing my real point which is if you have a general who has protection from both white and black whom you rely on entirely to win, and youre losing to colors that have very minimal removal outside of those colors then there is probably something missing.
EDIT: oh, and i'm definitely not complaining, because these things don't happen to me
See, I can read your post and reply with completely irrelevant things too.
Everything I said is still correct, and my contribution is telling you that this deck is better with disruption of its own. How youre not getting that is beyond me.
If I had to guess which one of our posts was more constructive....I'd say mine. Why are you taking this so personally? and you know, 'complaining'?
"Here are two examples of losses and therefore the entire deck and idea is bad, I mean, losing twice means that you should change everything. I think X is magically better, just X though, nothing specific, but I'm definitely right based on two examples."
It's like going to a Storm thread, saying that AdN and Tendrils are bad, vaguely suggesting something, and going on about how something vague is better. Totally useless.
I'm trying out a Mox switch out from Diamond to Chrome after reading through and trying TES in Legacy. When I'm seeing Mox Diamond early I've only had enough land to use it effectively in about 45% of games.
Flusterstorm, Swan Song, Counterspell, Spell Snare, Mana Leak, Remand, Spell Pierce, Stubborn Denial, Evasive Action, Muddle the Mixture, Force of Will, Unified Will, Delay, Memory Lapse, Painter's Servant, Venser, Shaper's Savant, Glen Elendra Archmage, Sylvan Safekeeper, Spiketail Hatchling, Negate, and Mental Misstep are all good disruptive cards that nobody seems to be running. That's just off the top of my head though. Should you be running all of them? of course not. That would bog down the combo far too much, but to run one counterspell in such a high variance format such as this has to be wrong. Those are the same cards everyone who plays this format would think of when pondering upon cheap disruptive spells for an Animar deck, and mostly all these cards myself or others have mentioned somewhere in this thread. I just didn't think people wouldn't automatically think of those cards when going from almost zero protection for the combo to 'some' protection for the combo. My post wasn't vague in the context of this thread because they've all been said by myself and others already.
And it's not magic, its logic, although I could see why there was confusion.
I also run Chrome Mox over Mox Diamond, simply because the deck is very land light and the math says the Mox Diamond isn't actually good here. Being able to pitch a redundant card (things like a second mana dork, ect) is a lot more functional than hoping you flood out with the diamond. When you are going off diamond may be better because excess lands are pointless but not before, which is the part of the game when you arn't already winning.
Round 1 VS. Mimeoplasm: G1 won with Animar Swings, G2 lost with Necrotic Ooze Combo, G3 won by stealing a turn-two Griselbrand (Gilded Drake).
Round 2 VS. Mimeoplasm: G1 won Biggie Animar Swings, G2 lost to reanimated Griselbrand Swings, unable to finish G3 so Draw.
Round 3 VS. Sigarda: G1 won via Turn 4 Ulamog and Biggie Animar, G2 won with Biggie Animar, with opponent flooded with lands.
Round 4 VS. Marath: G1 lost via Combo (Reveillark + Karmic Guide Shiz), G2 won via Animar Beats + Ulamog (due to paying too much life also from opponent's Sylvan Library), G3 won by turn 4 Ulamog and the rest is history.
Cut to Top 4 VS Prossh: G1 lost with early Craterhoof Behemoth (even without Prossh), G2 opponent conceded considering that I can already draw my whole deck and untap land shenanigans, G3 lost with Craterhoof off a Tutored Pattern of Rebirth.
I'm trying to test more relevant cards (considering our meta here in Philippines) and weighing out cards to temporarily cut.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
Ancestral Statue.
*walks out*
1 Stratus Dancer
1 Ire Shaman
1 Den Protector
1 Shaman of Forgotten Ways
This was a great set, and block, for Imperial Animar. In fact, have we even talked about Fate Reforged? Not nearly as good, but a few cards caught my attention that I dismissed before but would be interested in testing.
1 Vaultbreaker
1 Temur Sabertooth
1 Whisperer of the Wilds
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]