I'm just getting into this deck and learning all it's tricks and everything but I have to say this things a well oiled masterpiece. Here's a few changes to my list from the stock list but let me know why I'm wrong if you don't mind.
- Daze
- Probe
- Land Grant
- Wirewood Herald
- Owl Familiar
- Cursecatcher
- Lotus Cobra
Daze and Probe seem random since it's mostly just an all in combo deck with no interaction. Is it worth having just one slot to soft counter and a cantrip instead of going fully all in with more combo pieces like sylvan library and food chain? library doesn't do anything the turn it comes down but it draws 2 extra cards after that and food chain provides a ton of ramp and color fixing to keep the chain going. I know having creatures on the board to clamp and bounce is good but when I tested food chain for a little while it let me play more creatures in general, made use of the useless ones and ramp crazy high by playing a 4 drop for 1 and then sacing it for 5 mana of any color for example.
What do you think of Chrome Mox over Land Grant? Mox can get Animar out a turn faster and can be used during a combo after a land drop already so it's not a dead draw like Land Grant can be.
How useful is wirewood herald? There's no sac effects in the deck so you have to wait for an opponent to kill it. Isn't it usually a dead draw over vs another combo piece like pod even though it needs a lot of mana? Although it actually seems really good alongside pod.
Owl Familiar vs Alchemist’s Apprentice is clampable vs not having to discard a card.
cursecatcher vs Elvish mystic. Both one drops and I like mana dorks to get out animar turn 2. Seems more relevant to the deck
And lastly Orcish Lumberjack vs Lotus Cobra. Not sure if this one's right or not but lumberjack provides a ton of mana.
Daze is kind of random, but is still pretty useful, especially when you can't win in a turn but draw a lot of cards. Probe is mainly for (free) deck-thinning, but it also works with Worldly/Sylvan Tutor.
Food Chain isn't strictly necessary for the combo, and doesn't do anything outside of it. In other words, it's a win-more. Library slows you down, and is basically a 2 mana suspend card that draws you 2(4) cards for 8(16) life, also not good.
Land Grant is a replacement for a land, and can fetch any color. Mox, on the other hand, costs a card and works best when you already have other lands. I think it's worth trying out but I think in a land-light deck it's worse than either another land or Land Grant
You're right, Wirewood Herald is primarily for Skullclamp/Birthing Pod. But it's so good during clamp combos that it's worth playing just for those two.
In his newest decklist, Jester replaced a Wild Cantor for Elvish Mystic. I'd definitely add Elvish Mystic, but I wouldn't cut Cursecatcher from the deck, I'd much rather cut Sage of Epityr.
Orcish Lumberjack costs red mana, which is often hard to come by. It also sacrifices forests, which affect Peregrine Drake combos. On the other hand, Lotus Cobra doesn't require sacrificing lands, and works a lot better with Primeval, Wood Elves, and other land-fetching cards.
Daze is the complete blowout in a lot of matches - really just never disappoints.
Wirewood Herald is surprisingly good. It generates a LOT of card advantage without burning through all of your clampable creatures, which in return makes it so that when you do use Gaea's Cradle, you have that much more mana. Usually when using Imperial Recruiter, you'll tutor Phyrexian Metamorph, clone Recruiter, tutor Peregrine Drake, getting you to into a really solid position to chain. At this point, Herald let's you tutor into Fierce Empath, which more than likely will get you Artisan of Kozilek. This opens up the opportunity to clamp Metamorph, Artisan, and clone Peregrine Drake, leaving you in a position with enough mana, card advantage and mana to win the game simply by being smart about cradle, and using Artisan to amplify your card advantage each iteration (clamp gater/Imperial, Artisan, bounce Metamorph, clone Peregrine etc).
Orcish Lumberjack was cut from the deck a long time ago. It's really detrimental to sacrifice lands, and the deck is much stronger as a consistent T4 deck than an inconsistent T3 deck.
I'm not a fan of Food Chain for a number of reasons. While, once it's in play, it's a complete powerhouse, it's also card disadvantage, and undermines things like skullclamp, gaea's cradle, bounce creatures, clones etc. Really, when it comes down to it, the deck is able to manage mana efficiently enough that I'd prefer card advantage outright.
Owl Familiar is real good. It shouldn't be a question of Owl Familiar vs Alchemist's apprentice, it should be a question of Apprentice vs other creature slots.
Elvish Mystic is already played.
Birthing Pod is real expensive, and we don't have a cohesive strategy to abuse it.
Chrome Mox is good, but operating with card disadvantage significantly reduces consistency. Mox Diamond is only really exciting because of things like Gush, Fathom Seer, and the massive likelihood of having extra lands to pitch. Again, this comes down to the question of which is better, a much more consistent T4 kill, or slightly more T3 kills? I've constructed and played both versions, and I can definitively say that creating a more consistent, resilient build emphasizing card advantage has a much better match spectrum, and much better infinite potential, than a build trading card advantage for speed.
It hasn't been updating for a while, though I'd argue that just affirms the sheer build quality to stand up to a LOT of critical analysis, and go unwavering. That's not to say I don't test variations; I just feel real good about that specific version.
I just started playing this deck and really like it so far but I was wondering what could be done to improve the match up vs. Marith and against control decks mainly nin.
I just started playing this deck and really like it so far but I was wondering what could be done to improve the match up vs. Marith and against control decks mainly nin.
What kind of issues are you having with Marath? That's generally an extremely favorable matchup
I've been a huge fan of this build for a long time. Was wondering if anyone had good strategies for dealing with the Marath matchup. I just can't seem to get online as Animar just gets pinged as soon as he comes out every time.
Ideas?
Hi fozzwald. I recommend you tell your opponents to stop cheating because Animar has protection from white and therefore cannot be pinged by Marath. Cheers!
It's more or less combating the combos in it. The meta I play in has very few aggro decks and mostly control and Marith so I just wanted to see what cards were worth putting in for the meta
I'm slowly collecting all the pieces to this deck, but I have a few spots which will take time to collect. I play proxies among friends, but I like having the replacement in the sleeve already, so I can easily play "legally" if needed. As such, I had a few questions about budget options for a few slots:
Fetch Lands and Alpha Lands
I have a few more fetchlands to gather, but as far as replacing them with alternatives goes, are basics the best? Or, is there something better? If so, how should I try to balance the mana ratios (G:U:R)? The same goes for the Alpha "non-shock" dual lands.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Of course there's no real replacement for him, but I'm thinking the main point is the card draw. What alternatives fill Kozilek's role the best if Kozilek can't come to the party?
Mox Diamond
Is the recently removed Wild Cantor a legitimate replacement for Mox Diamond? Or, is there something more permanent that would be preferred? (If only we could run Noble Hierarch)
1) Fetchlands aren't really replaceable. The next best thing is probably to go with more non-basics, the obvious choices being: Mana Confluence, City of Brass, Painlands etc.
2) There's no substitute. Kozilek being an eldrazi, and colorless is why he's worthwhile. +1 slot.
3) +1 slot.
Off of the top of my head, some noteworthy includes:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Joraga Treespeaker
Alchemist's Apprentice
Scarecrone
Living Totem
Wild Cantor
Quirion Ranger
Snap
Manamorphose
Bounty of the Hunt
Oracle of Mul Daya
Satyr Wayfinder
Frantic Search
Auto-include.
Solid ramp and fixing pre-Animar, and at best you cast it for free, put a counter on animar, then unmorph and gain 1 mana while filtering. This card seems to be made right for this deck.
Auto-include.
Solid ramp and fixing pre-Animar, and at best you cast it for free, put a counter on animar, then unmorph and gain 1 mana while filtering. This card seems to be made right for this deck.
I came here specifically to point this out. This card seems 100% made for animar. The question is, what to replace? My thought is Sage of Epityr, he's been good as an initial cast to boost animar, but he does not keep the chains going by himself.
Its also worth noting that this thing combos with just cloudstone curio, and any castable creature with only one colored mana in the cost, which until now I believe was really only doable with the eldrazi and peregrine drake and co. Seems like an auto include as it is a more relevant card when Animar is sidelined than peregrine drake, but you would probably run both in an all in build anyways.
Its also worth noting that this thing combos with just cloudstone curio, and any castable creature with only one colored mana in the cost, which until now I believe was really only doable with the eldrazi and peregrine drake and co. Seems like an auto include as it is a more relevant card when Animar is sidelined than peregrine drake, but you would probably run both in an all in build anyways.
What about Gatecreeper Vine? It seems to fill a very similar spot, but I'm not finding many ways in which the Gatecreeper does it better. I suppose it can save you on a turn you fail to have a land in hand, and it is technically deck thinning.
[snip]
I've tested reclamation sage and he won't get out of the deck until Wizards create the same for two manas
For those who are using Reclamation Sage, what are you cutting to include it? Whether or not it's really worth a spot in the most general form of the deck, in my personal play group, it's definitely a bullet worth having (Jitte and Survival come to mind first); I'm really not sure what to take out. Some thoughts from Jester would be greatly appreciated, as well.
For Reclamation sage? There are a couple of options. Arctic Merfolk, Sage of Epityr, Augury Owl, Dream Stalker, Cloudstone Curio, and Man-o'-War are arguably the weakest slots at the moment, from strongest to weakest.
I have a very love hate relationship going on with Cloudstone Curio. On one hand, it's a pillar that unequivocally ends the game, however at the same time it's terrible in opening hands, and anytime early. There are some games in which Animar isn't a picture, in which it generates reasonable card advantage, however this is very infrequent, and there are truly a lot of options in that scenario.
As far as unequivocal combos go, Survival simply doesn't cut it - it's very difficult to precisely tell the exact moment in which you're technically infinite, it's very difficult to explain, it has decision trees, and it doesn't produce a predictable state, making it impossible to declare that you intend to do it n-times. fact Granted, you will never need to do more than a handful of iterations, the fact remains that it's not cut and dry.
That's where Cloudstone Curio has always come into place. However, Earthcraft also offers up the ability to do an unequivocal infinite combo. You can simply cycle between Artisan of Kozilek, Faerie Imposter and Shrieking Drake with Skullclamp. Infinite card draw, infinite mana, and infinite shuffles is unequivocal. If you're staring down a complicated board state, you 100% need this capability.
All that said, I think it's worth testing out cutting a combination of any/all of the listed cards, and testing out other options. Candidates for testing include:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Joraga Treespeaker
Alchemist's Apprentice
Scarecrone
Living Totem
Wild Cantor
Quirion Ranger
Snap
Manamorphose
Bounty of the Hunt
Oracle of Mul Daya
Satyr Wayfinder
Frantic Search
Reclamation Sage
As far as cuts go, Sea Gate Oracle should be nowhere near the chopping block.
Finally, call me a crazy bastard, because clearly I'm so far out there with regards to deckbuild that it's borderline absurd, but I still don't feel like it's worth specifically adding in Reclamation Sage as hate for Jitte/Survival. Jitte itself is at most a small piece of a larger counter offense. It's not going to win alone, they still need a lot of things to go right; it only tilts the scale paired with hands that would otherwise keep you in check. It's generally very manageable to play against, and there are always other options. Aside from adopting very calculated strategies, Primeval Titan generally just does work. The majority of decks that utilize Jitte against us are already very good matchups. I would much focus optimization towards making the control matchup better, specifically GAAIV.
For Reclamation sage? There are a couple of options. Arctic Merfolk, Sage of Epityr, Augury Owl, Dream Stalker, Cloudstone Curio, and Man-o'-War are arguably the weakest slots at the moment, from strongest to weakest.
Out of curiosity, why is Man-o-War so far down on that list? It seems like the bounce creature with the most utility; I've had a few games where being able to bounce something that's not yours changed things dramatically (especially if you can keep replaying him via other methods. A sort of mini-ulamog).
As far as deciding which of these to cut for what, how important is it that replacements have either the same mana cost, or a similar effect? For example, does cutting Sage of Epityr for a 2-drop make sense? Or, how about dropping Augury Owl for Joraga Treespeaker - same cost, very different effects. I guess what I'm asking is: I know you have things fairly fine tuned, and I'd like to stay within those parameters as much as possible with any changes I may or may not make.
Finally, call me a crazy bastard, because clearly I'm so far out there with regards to deckbuild that it's borderline absurd, but I still don't feel like it's worth specifically adding in Reclamation Sage as hate for Jitte/Survival. Jitte itself is at most a small piece of a larger counter offense. It's not going to win alone, they still need a lot of things to go right; it only tilts the scale paired with hands that would otherwise keep you in check. It's generally very manageable to play against, and there are always other options. Aside from adopting very calculated strategies, Primeval Titan generally just does work. The majority of decks that utilize Jitte against us are already very good matchups. I would much focus optimization towards making the control matchup better, specifically GAAIV.
I think you're right, and I don't disagree (although, I didn't mean to imply those were my SOLE targets). I'm currently just playing in a very small meta *coughtwootherplayerscough*, so considering that and considering that Reclamation Sage is on the list of "worth testing", it seemed like a particularly powerful inclusion to try for my particular situation.
Man-O-War' is just one of those cards where it never really impresses, but every once in a blue moon, it's a quality toolbox card, that can be tutored with Imperial Recruiter whereas Gilded Drake cannot. It has stolen games. Not many, but some. I get the feeling though that the games in which it has won could've otherwise been won with other card selections. More importantly, it's worth weighing in on where the focus needs to be. Cutting Man-O-War at the cost of slightly decreasing win% against aggro if it means increasing matchups elsewhere is definitely something worth weighing. Furthermore, you also have to ask things like, if I had a Rofellos instead of this Man-O-War, and were instead able to ramp up card advantage etc, how would that impact my win%?
Anyway, food for thought - if we are going to do a new round of testing/optimization for Khans, it might be an appropriate time to do it with fresh eyes. The reasons why things like Rofellos, Quirion Ranger and Scarecrone were cut, for example, are no longer as pronounced. Elvish Mystic, Faerie Imposter, Bond Beetle, Gatecreeper Vine, Sage of Epityr etc changed the curve dynamics, which in return makes Rofellos and Scarecrone suddenly stronger picks.
The biggest thing to consider is that the normal A vs B perspective doesn't strictly apply here. This deck is entirely about card dynamics, so you somewhat need to look at it from a many-to-many perspective such that emphasizes strong dynamics. The right fit is almost always better than the best card here.
Man-O-War' is just one of those cards where it never really impresses, but every once in a blue moon, it's a quality toolbox card, that can be tutored with Imperial Recruiter whereas Gilded Drake cannot. It has stolen games. Not many, but some. I get the feeling though that the games in which it has won could've otherwise been won with other card selections. More importantly, it's worth weighing in on where the focus needs to be. Cutting Man-O-War at the cost of slightly decreasing win% against aggro if it means increasing matchups elsewhere is definitely something worth weighing. Furthermore, you also have to ask things like, if I had a Rofellos instead of this Man-O-War, and were instead able to ramp up card advantage etc, how would that impact my win%?
My question more was: Why not any of the other bounce creatures over Man-O-War? Why does he hit the chopping block earlier than Dream Stalker, or Arctic Merfolk?
Anyway, food for thought - if we are going to do a new round of testing/optimization for Khans, it might be an appropriate time to do it with fresh eyes. The reasons why things like Rofellos, Quirion Ranger and Scarecrone were cut, for example, are no longer as pronounced. Elvish Mystic, Faerie Imposter, Bond Beetle, Gatecreeper Vine, Sage of Epityr etc changed the curve dynamics, which in return makes Rofellos and Scarecrone suddenly stronger picks.
The biggest thing to consider is that the normal A vs B perspective doesn't strictly apply here. This deck is entirely about card dynamics, so you somewhat need to look at it from a many-to-many perspective such that emphasizes strong dynamics. The right fit is almost always better than the best card here.
I have to admit, I can't follow a lot of this. It makes me feel like perhaps the OP might need an update of some kind? A lot of the sections explaining strategy and considerations like these are currently empty. I really love this deck, and I do think you're pioneering something pretty unique yet effective; however, I'm starting to doubt if I really understand at all how to think about this deck. And, because of it's wholistic nature, I'm really nervous to make any change without getting the reasons for making such a change.
PS: What do you think about Rattleclaw Mystic? I know you hate commenting until set release, but it seems like an inclusion worth a slot somewhere.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
- Daze
- Probe
- Land Grant
- Wirewood Herald
- Owl Familiar
- Cursecatcher
- Lotus Cobra
+ Slyvan Library
+ Food Chain
+ Chrome Mox
+ Birthing Pod
+ Alchemist’s Apprentice
+ Elvish Mystic
+ Orcish Lumberjack
Daze and Probe seem random since it's mostly just an all in combo deck with no interaction. Is it worth having just one slot to soft counter and a cantrip instead of going fully all in with more combo pieces like sylvan library and food chain? library doesn't do anything the turn it comes down but it draws 2 extra cards after that and food chain provides a ton of ramp and color fixing to keep the chain going. I know having creatures on the board to clamp and bounce is good but when I tested food chain for a little while it let me play more creatures in general, made use of the useless ones and ramp crazy high by playing a 4 drop for 1 and then sacing it for 5 mana of any color for example.
What do you think of Chrome Mox over Land Grant? Mox can get Animar out a turn faster and can be used during a combo after a land drop already so it's not a dead draw like Land Grant can be.
How useful is wirewood herald? There's no sac effects in the deck so you have to wait for an opponent to kill it. Isn't it usually a dead draw over vs another combo piece like pod even though it needs a lot of mana? Although it actually seems really good alongside pod.
Owl Familiar vs Alchemist’s Apprentice is clampable vs not having to discard a card.
cursecatcher vs Elvish mystic. Both one drops and I like mana dorks to get out animar turn 2. Seems more relevant to the deck
And lastly Orcish Lumberjack vs Lotus Cobra. Not sure if this one's right or not but lumberjack provides a ton of mana.
Food Chain isn't strictly necessary for the combo, and doesn't do anything outside of it. In other words, it's a win-more. Library slows you down, and is basically a 2 mana suspend card that draws you 2(4) cards for 8(16) life, also not good.
Land Grant is a replacement for a land, and can fetch any color. Mox, on the other hand, costs a card and works best when you already have other lands. I think it's worth trying out but I think in a land-light deck it's worse than either another land or Land Grant
You're right, Wirewood Herald is primarily for Skullclamp/Birthing Pod. But it's so good during clamp combos that it's worth playing just for those two.
In his newest decklist, Jester replaced a Wild Cantor for Elvish Mystic. I'd definitely add Elvish Mystic, but I wouldn't cut Cursecatcher from the deck, I'd much rather cut Sage of Epityr.
Orcish Lumberjack costs red mana, which is often hard to come by. It also sacrifices forests, which affect Peregrine Drake combos. On the other hand, Lotus Cobra doesn't require sacrificing lands, and works a lot better with Primeval, Wood Elves, and other land-fetching cards.
Jester's newest decklist (that I'm aware of) can be found here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/imperial-animar-13-01-13-1/
Wirewood Herald is surprisingly good. It generates a LOT of card advantage without burning through all of your clampable creatures, which in return makes it so that when you do use Gaea's Cradle, you have that much more mana. Usually when using Imperial Recruiter, you'll tutor Phyrexian Metamorph, clone Recruiter, tutor Peregrine Drake, getting you to into a really solid position to chain. At this point, Herald let's you tutor into Fierce Empath, which more than likely will get you Artisan of Kozilek. This opens up the opportunity to clamp Metamorph, Artisan, and clone Peregrine Drake, leaving you in a position with enough mana, card advantage and mana to win the game simply by being smart about cradle, and using Artisan to amplify your card advantage each iteration (clamp gater/Imperial, Artisan, bounce Metamorph, clone Peregrine etc).
Orcish Lumberjack was cut from the deck a long time ago. It's really detrimental to sacrifice lands, and the deck is much stronger as a consistent T4 deck than an inconsistent T3 deck.
I'm not a fan of Food Chain for a number of reasons. While, once it's in play, it's a complete powerhouse, it's also card disadvantage, and undermines things like skullclamp, gaea's cradle, bounce creatures, clones etc. Really, when it comes down to it, the deck is able to manage mana efficiently enough that I'd prefer card advantage outright.
Owl Familiar is real good. It shouldn't be a question of Owl Familiar vs Alchemist's apprentice, it should be a question of Apprentice vs other creature slots.
Elvish Mystic is already played.
Birthing Pod is real expensive, and we don't have a cohesive strategy to abuse it.
Chrome Mox is good, but operating with card disadvantage significantly reduces consistency. Mox Diamond is only really exciting because of things like Gush, Fathom Seer, and the massive likelihood of having extra lands to pitch. Again, this comes down to the question of which is better, a much more consistent T4 kill, or slightly more T3 kills? I've constructed and played both versions, and I can definitively say that creating a more consistent, resilient build emphasizing card advantage has a much better match spectrum, and much better infinite potential, than a build trading card advantage for speed.
The most recent decklist is always here:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/imperial-animar-13-01-13-1/
It hasn't been updating for a while, though I'd argue that just affirms the sheer build quality to stand up to a LOT of critical analysis, and go unwavering. That's not to say I don't test variations; I just feel real good about that specific version.
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
What kind of issues are you having with Marath? That's generally an extremely favorable matchup
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
2) There's no substitute. Kozilek being an eldrazi, and colorless is why he's worthwhile. +1 slot.
3) +1 slot.
Off of the top of my head, some noteworthy includes:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Joraga Treespeaker
Alchemist's Apprentice
Scarecrone
Living Totem
Wild Cantor
Quirion Ranger
Snap
Manamorphose
Bounty of the Hunt
Oracle of Mul Daya
Satyr Wayfinder
Frantic Search
1G
Tap: add G,U,R to mana pool.
Morph 2
Add GUR to your mana pool when flipped.
Solid ramp and fixing pre-Animar, and at best you cast it for free, put a counter on animar, then unmorph and gain 1 mana while filtering. This card seems to be made right for this deck.
I came here specifically to point this out. This card seems 100% made for animar. The question is, what to replace? My thought is Sage of Epityr, he's been good as an initial cast to boost animar, but he does not keep the chains going by himself.
Yeah, I agree. They tend to shaft u/g especially with overpriced gimmicks. Just give us efficiently priced tricky effects like this.
What about Gatecreeper Vine? It seems to fill a very similar spot, but I'm not finding many ways in which the Gatecreeper does it better. I suppose it can save you on a turn you fail to have a land in hand, and it is technically deck thinning.
For those who are using Reclamation Sage, what are you cutting to include it? Whether or not it's really worth a spot in the most general form of the deck, in my personal play group, it's definitely a bullet worth having (Jitte and Survival come to mind first); I'm really not sure what to take out. Some thoughts from Jester would be greatly appreciated, as well.
I have a very love hate relationship going on with Cloudstone Curio. On one hand, it's a pillar that unequivocally ends the game, however at the same time it's terrible in opening hands, and anytime early. There are some games in which Animar isn't a picture, in which it generates reasonable card advantage, however this is very infrequent, and there are truly a lot of options in that scenario.
As far as unequivocal combos go, Survival simply doesn't cut it - it's very difficult to precisely tell the exact moment in which you're technically infinite, it's very difficult to explain, it has decision trees, and it doesn't produce a predictable state, making it impossible to declare that you intend to do it n-times. fact Granted, you will never need to do more than a handful of iterations, the fact remains that it's not cut and dry.
That's where Cloudstone Curio has always come into place. However, Earthcraft also offers up the ability to do an unequivocal infinite combo. You can simply cycle between Artisan of Kozilek, Faerie Imposter and Shrieking Drake with Skullclamp. Infinite card draw, infinite mana, and infinite shuffles is unequivocal. If you're staring down a complicated board state, you 100% need this capability.
All that said, I think it's worth testing out cutting a combination of any/all of the listed cards, and testing out other options. Candidates for testing include:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Joraga Treespeaker
Alchemist's Apprentice
Scarecrone
Living Totem
Wild Cantor
Quirion Ranger
Snap
Manamorphose
Bounty of the Hunt
Oracle of Mul Daya
Satyr Wayfinder
Frantic Search
Reclamation Sage
As far as cuts go, Sea Gate Oracle should be nowhere near the chopping block.
Finally, call me a crazy bastard, because clearly I'm so far out there with regards to deckbuild that it's borderline absurd, but I still don't feel like it's worth specifically adding in Reclamation Sage as hate for Jitte/Survival. Jitte itself is at most a small piece of a larger counter offense. It's not going to win alone, they still need a lot of things to go right; it only tilts the scale paired with hands that would otherwise keep you in check. It's generally very manageable to play against, and there are always other options. Aside from adopting very calculated strategies, Primeval Titan generally just does work. The majority of decks that utilize Jitte against us are already very good matchups. I would much focus optimization towards making the control matchup better, specifically GAAIV.
Out of curiosity, why is Man-o-War so far down on that list? It seems like the bounce creature with the most utility; I've had a few games where being able to bounce something that's not yours changed things dramatically (especially if you can keep replaying him via other methods. A sort of mini-ulamog).
As far as deciding which of these to cut for what, how important is it that replacements have either the same mana cost, or a similar effect? For example, does cutting Sage of Epityr for a 2-drop make sense? Or, how about dropping Augury Owl for Joraga Treespeaker - same cost, very different effects. I guess what I'm asking is: I know you have things fairly fine tuned, and I'd like to stay within those parameters as much as possible with any changes I may or may not make.
I think you're right, and I don't disagree (although, I didn't mean to imply those were my SOLE targets). I'm currently just playing in a very small meta *coughtwootherplayerscough*, so considering that and considering that Reclamation Sage is on the list of "worth testing", it seemed like a particularly powerful inclusion to try for my particular situation.
Anyway, food for thought - if we are going to do a new round of testing/optimization for Khans, it might be an appropriate time to do it with fresh eyes. The reasons why things like Rofellos, Quirion Ranger and Scarecrone were cut, for example, are no longer as pronounced. Elvish Mystic, Faerie Imposter, Bond Beetle, Gatecreeper Vine, Sage of Epityr etc changed the curve dynamics, which in return makes Rofellos and Scarecrone suddenly stronger picks.
The biggest thing to consider is that the normal A vs B perspective doesn't strictly apply here. This deck is entirely about card dynamics, so you somewhat need to look at it from a many-to-many perspective such that emphasizes strong dynamics. The right fit is almost always better than the best card here.
My question more was: Why not any of the other bounce creatures over Man-O-War? Why does he hit the chopping block earlier than Dream Stalker, or Arctic Merfolk?
I have to admit, I can't follow a lot of this. It makes me feel like perhaps the OP might need an update of some kind? A lot of the sections explaining strategy and considerations like these are currently empty. I really love this deck, and I do think you're pioneering something pretty unique yet effective; however, I'm starting to doubt if I really understand at all how to think about this deck. And, because of it's wholistic nature, I'm really nervous to make any change without getting the reasons for making such a change.
PS: What do you think about Rattleclaw Mystic? I know you hate commenting until set release, but it seems like an inclusion worth a slot somewhere.