Short report:
R1 Edric
Game One - I'm on the play and I force spike his turn one play and drop Geist on turn 3 which is enough when I am able to drop spectral flight.
Game Two - This was a really close game in which I get him down to 7 life with geist + destiny, removing his Edric a couple of times. By that time he has managed to build up some board position and promptly put me in danger of lethal the next turn. I topdeck steel of the godhead for the win.
R2 Edric
Game One - I lose quickly to a horde of creatures + Wonder.
Game Two - Land tax, tallowisp, geist, steel of the godhead is a pretty good curve and he doesn't recover.
Game Three - The game is really close but he wins in extra turns when he drops opposition, I counter and he counters back. Interesting occurence: Sower taking Edric, which he then metamorphed, eot restoration angel on sower. It wasn't enough though when he found bounce for sower.
R3 Jhoira
Game One - I drop geist and spectral flight which makes it a pretty easy win.
Game Two - I counter whipflare and his combo isn't fast enough to beat my geist beatdown.
Complicate was really good the one time I got to cast it, and the uncounterable mattered as he had force in hand. Spectral flight was very good as another aura, I think unstable mutation might have some potential as well (and the new ajani). Delver was decent, although not stellar. The cycling lands were pretty useful as I tended to get flooded more often than not (with 38 lands). Aether adept was fine but not very impressive so I think I will cut it again. I didn't see the other additions.
I liked the cycling lands better than steppe as they always drew me a card. Warder and hunter just seemed to die all the time.
First question : Are you sure you can't find a slot for Psionic Blast ? In my version I have always been happy with it. Always. Don't forget that, unlike Sunlance (which I am also playing), you can still punch a planeswalker in the face with it. In my experience with this deck (less than yours), Psionic Blast has always been extremely useful. I even killed a Griselbrand player who thought he had won the game by drawing 21. Hehe.
I'm looking for a slot for Psionic Blast for testing at the very least. Blue Char(izard) is fantastic now and will be forever. Vedalken Shackles seems likely.
Second question : Are you sure Sundial of the Infinite is so bad ? I mean, yes it really looks like an useless topdeck. That's what I thought. But when I first played Geist, I was missing a few cards and I didn't have time to search in all my pool of Commander cards, so I grabbed Sundial of the Infinite, hoping to replace it a few days after. And when playing it, I realized how much people tend to play a huge lot on their opponent's turn. That's where I realized creating a 4/4 angel token that stays in play is only the tip of the iceberg. I realized that having Sundial of the infinite in play did almost always put your opponent in an uncomfortable position. Among all what happened during my games, here is a little selection :
- Forcing opponents to use fetch-lands during their turn and not at the end of your turn.
- Forcing opponents to play Fact of Fiction / Mystical Teachings / Forbidden Alchemy / whatever during their turn.
- Preventing any surprise that can happen in combat (opponent casting Nature's Claim of Steel of the Godhead during the attack to block Geist).
- Exiling creatures with Flash, which makes playing Wydwen / Clique very uncomfortable.
- A bit narrow, but sometimes can avoid terrible upkeep effects (Dystopia, Smokestack).
- Obviously, having an additional 4/4 angel token every turn.
I'm sure on this one. A lot of your listed "uncomfortable positions" are also situations where other cards work just as well, and have applications relating to MY gameplan instead of just my opponents. It's a cute interaction, and useless in many matchups. When I did try it out, all it really did was make my opponent play a half turn slower. This deck doesn't really care about that.
Third question : What about Ajani, Caller of the Pride ? Putting +1/+1 counters on Geist shouldn't be that bad, having a possibility to give it Double Strike and Flying after having pumped it looks like crazy bashing, and even his ultimate is relevant. For three mana it comes with five loyalty (4+1), which looks like pretty solid.
It's something I'm going to try. While it doesn't protect itself, nothing about the card says "defense" so I think that's fine. Turning Geist into something that CAN actually win a combat without needing a sword seems fine by me. The more times I get to turn him sideways, the more I win. Doublestrike and flying is just cake.
Fourth question : What about Cathedral of War ? Played on turn one or four, it does a decent job, even with other creatures than Geist. In decks with three colors it's bad, but in Geist there are less mana problems.
For the longest time I looked at exalted creatures to go with Geist. It fits well, the angel pretty much negates any advantage gained by attacking in a group, which means the exalted can kick in to perfectly boost him. Unfortunately, the better exalted creatures are multicolor, and the ones that do work aren't useful enough to use or are too aggressive and require a different game-plan, one that loses to the meta-hate decks.
Being a land, this does have good potential to be useful. Coming into play tapped might kill it off though. I'll test it.
Fifth question : What about Sublime Archangel ? It looks like a serious heavy beater, nicely curved to follow Geist. Wouldn't it be a more than decent four drop ?
This card made me giggle with the possibilities. If Geist goes a bit more mid-range, this and hero of bladehold would be fantastic four-drop finishers. As of now, the cheaper tempo plan is working in the current meta.
Sixth question : What about Void Stalker ? I'm quite unsure about this one, but it might be worth considering ? It's mana heavy, that's sure, but its ability looks nice to get rid of Voltron commanders like Zur or GAAIV.
I think it may be too slow. I prefer removal that deals with the problem NOW. In a world with Edric and Zur and others with instant impact on the game-state, removal that takes a turn to kick in just doesnt work. This is part of my reasoning for not liking shackles.
Seventh question : What about Vanish into Memory ? Basically it's a sorcery-speed "draw four" for four mana, but occasionally it can save Geist or another creature while looting, even draw two on Snapcaster Mage, then returning it, discarding a spell to Flashback directly. It also works with manlands. Last, Vanish into Memory cares about the creature's power when it leaves the battlefield, and its toughness after it returns, which means that if you saved an equipped creature from a Wrath of God, you drew two more cards than you will discard. That's more control-oriented than Restoration Angel, but it looks like worth trying, isn't it ?
I remember testing this near the beginning of the deck, and finding it rather decent for the purely control geist builds. This deck is too streamlined for a different purpose to use Vanish effectively, in my opinion.
Eighth question : What about Helm of Possession ? Well, considering you are thinking about cutting Vedalken Shackles, I guess it's not the best suggestion ever.
Yeah, not thinking about more of this effect. It's just not good right now.
Ninth question : In the same style, what about Perilous Research ? Sorcery "draw two" for two mana, or a way to get some card advantage from a removal or with Flagstones of Trokair.
I think the sacrifice might be too much of a cost to pay unless I have flagstones or geist in attack mode. As I won't have these all the time, I don't like it. In fact, I would probably play See Beyond over this, because of the ability to shuffle dead cards away. Research has a deck, but it's not this one.
Tenth question : What about Jeweled Amulet ? I know you already said no because it is a terrible topdeck late game. Please let me insist one last time. It enables a turn two Geist without sacrificing a card under a Mox and unlike Lotus Petal it is reusable. It really shines in a deck with blue and with a commander with CMC 3. It is a bad draw on late game, so are cards like Land Tax, Mana Tithe, Force Spike or Spell Pierce. There are always late game bad draws. I know that playing Geist on turn two is not the focus here, but it is always a lot of pressure for the opponent when it happens, and it also accelerates your 4 drops (Jace TMS, Restoration Angle, etc) without requiring casting a signet that would make you all tapped on turn two.
My reasoning for not wanting it stands. I like draws that mean something - Tax, tithe, spike, and pierce are all much better draws than this is, and can affect how the game ends in a more positive manner. Provided I live a turn, Tax has the potential to draw me 4 cards. Tithe and Spike and pierce can stop those ugly tap-out control decks, even late game. Amulet? It's great early on, but after that sinks to low I can't afford.
Eleventh question : Was Hero of Bladehold so bad ? It has always shined for me. I didn't draw it often, so I might not have had accurate statistics with this one.
Restoration Angel is just better, and interacts with my deck and my opponents in a much more positive manner. Hero just killed the opponent, restoration angel kills the opponent and gets me card advantage at the same time.
Twelvth question : Is Land Tax so useful ? You generally don't need a ton of lands in this deck, and half the games you play you won't be able to use it. Isn't Tithe better ? It leaves you white mana open in case you need it, it get at least one Plains no matter what, and you can play it in response to sacrificing Flooded Strand (or any other one) to get two lands even if you started. Bonus, it gets Tundra and Hallowed Fountain.
Your reasoning for tithe is sound however I like tax at the moment mostly because it's a repeatable effect, which filters out quite a bit of land; It works with Jace, with Looter, with Brainstorm, ect. It's got more uses outside of just getting land. I have also won a game by Enlightened Tutoring for it after being stuck on two lands for a time. I will test Tithe over it, though.
Thirteenth question : What is Flusterstorm for ? You generally don't fear instants and sorceries that much because of Hexproof. At least Spell Pierce counters planeswalkers, artifacts and enchantments.
It's an extra 1cc counterspell that nods to the other tempo decks and meta-hate decks who love to get into counterwars. I like it, but this might just be a pet card.
Fourteenth question : Why did you remove Winter Orb ? It is currently one of the cards that makes me win the most games. In fact, this card is the second cause of my wins, behind the card I'll talk next.
Fifteenth question : Are you sure you don't wanna try Cataclysm ? I know you said no on the first page of this topic, but I urge you to try it again. This is my number one card in this deck.
Sorry for my numerous questions, I hope I haven't been annoying.
It's win-more to me; I don't particularly like it. Now, if it were Balance....
It's impossible to annoy me unless you're 6, constantly require my attention, and don't know how to make yer own damn sandwich. On that note, someone help - he's still here.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
...Isn't Tithe better ? It leaves you white mana open in case you need it, it get at least one Plains no matter what, and you can play it in response to sacrificing Flooded Strand (or any other one) to get two lands even if you started...
Oh My God C-C-C-COMBO!
I never thought about playing Tithe in this manner holy crap. I play the six fetchlands, Tithe, and OG duals in Kaalia, so wow this helps so much and I cannot believe I never realized this line of play until just now.
Thank you so much for asking these questions, and I now thank myself for reading this post today!
I decided to test out my screen capture program with a game with geist. It's pretty twitchy, but it's clear what's going on. Kind of interesting to watch my mouse follow my train of thought.
So, here you go - for your viewing pleasure: Relevance
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Too much online magic I guess, without card pictures, but I have a hard time seeing the pictures on the cards. OR MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THIS MATCH IS ENTIRELY PHOTOSHOPPED AND IT NEVER HAPPENED BECAUSE EMRAKUL NEVER LOSES EVER.
when it goes well, cataclysm is 80% time overkill, when it goes bad, it does almost nothing.
This. It's the same reason why I don't run it.
On the other hand, I think the Auras give Geist a little bit more staying power against quite a few decks. I don't think Angelic Destiny will be cut from my list any time soon, the three turn effectively unblockable clock is cake, not to mention it turns any of your creatures into a game-ender on their own. Steel of the Godhead is admittedly not as strong as destiny, but I've found the unblockability + lifelink to be relevant enough times that it's secure for the time being.
How has Cathedral of War been for you? I haven't had much time for testing M13.
I can't imagine your four slot being happy.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
these cards are good but too much dependant of your general, same as cataclysm: When it goes bad it does not really help, when it does good, it's often overkill. It can also be dead cards in your hand if there is no your general on the table. At least equipments can be attach to all your creatures several times.
This is true, at least for Steel. It only provides half a buff to most of the creatures in the deck. Destiny, at least, provides the full +4/+4 plus goodies and doesn't require your general to max itself out.
gaka, you should test Sword of War and Peace, it's one of the best card against the miror and the generals WX agro (gaddock, rhys, isamaru, teysa, uril zoo, etc).
I was running it for awhile, but felt I was drawing too many swords and not enough business. I will test sword again instead of steel and see how it goes. This will probably also mean cutting Tallowisp or trying Seal of Removal again.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I would never cut steel of the godhead from my list: it is a three mana aura that negates all red removal and all combat methods for killing geist as well gaining you 4 life, which is important in races. I would say it is much better than sowap due to its lower cost, granting of evasion to geist and its interaction with tallowisp.
Is silent departure better than vapor snag? 5 mana sorcery speed flashback seems very slow. How have you been finding gideon and tamiyo? I'm hesitant to add anything above 4 mana to my list because it just seems so slow.
Any reason that you aren't playing standstill / land tax? I have found them to be quite good. I have been considering tithe as well.
This is true, Destiny won't go back. But that's alright. Sometimes it's correct to let geist go to the grave and slam that sucker on another creature to continue the pressure.
Every time the coast comes down tapped, you're already at the top of your curve and it's much less relevant. You can win with only two or three mana, if seachrome comes in tapped you're at four and shouldn't be as concerned. The untapped dual prior to that makes it worth it.
Colonnade and Conclave are uncuttable at the moment. It's your best way of attacking Edric or Oath decks, because it's effectively an uncounterable creature. For edric this means you can focus everything on killing edric and oath can't trigger if you don't have creatures out.
Blinkmoth is likely to find a spot anyways.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Why doesn't destiny go to hand? It spicifically says 'whenever creatures dies, not goes to graveyard.
If i'm not mistaken, the keyword "dies" is the shortened version of "goes to the graveyard" which is pretty silly in my opinion because of just this confusion.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Hey Gaka, I frequently refer to your list and make changes to my own geist 1v1 deck, which has been performing admirably. Ill post my list soon, but ive put reveillark in the angelic destiny slot, having found destiny wanting several times. Its just not at its best without geist. Reveillark on the other hand, while at the top end of the curve returns everything in the deck except vendilion and restoration. Let me know what you think about that. Also, what do you plan on running from return to ravnica and why? My first obvious thought is supreme judgment over day of judgment, because sweepers almost always work out better for me than them.
Hey Gaka, I frequently refer to your list and make changes to my own geist 1v1 deck, which has been performing admirably. Ill post my list soon, but ive put reveillark in the angelic destiny slot, having found destiny wanting several times. Its just not at its best without geist. Reveillark on the other hand, while at the top end of the curve returns everything in the deck except vendilion and restoration. Let me know what you think about that. Also, what do you plan on running from return to ravnica and why? My first obvious thought is supreme judgment over day of judgment, because sweepers almost always work out better for me than them.
I am of the opinion that Destiny is too good to lose. While it IS at it's best with Geist, it can also turn any one of your creatures into a game-ending threat all it's own.
I really don't like 'lark here. It's slow and isn't going to give it's largest benefit until you've gone really late in the game, when you've probably already lost anyways. If you don't like destiny, the next best option I can think of is Hero of Bladehold.
I don't run sweepers right now and am unlikely to revert to them as of now. Too many extinction builds which lose to the tempo generated by bounce and don't care about sweepers.
If I did run them again, I would easily run it along with Mystical Tutor as possibly the *only* sweeper. You should only need it once. GAAIV, on the other hand, would run all three good white sweepers + terminus.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Gaka, I would also like your advice on dealing with resolved artifact/enchantment. I wish we have Nature's Claim in our color.
Weak cards or cards that don't do enough in your current decklist. Ancestral Vision Only good if you have it early and a weak top deck otherwise. Land Tax Good on the draw. Again, poor top deck at late game. Though, it works great with Path to Exile , Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Cephalid Coliseum
Gaka, I would also like your advice on dealing with resolved artifact/enchantment. I wish Nature's Claim is in our color.
Ancestral Vision Only good if you have it early and a weak top deck otherwise. Land Tax Good on the draw. Again, poor top deck at late game. Though, it works great with Path to Exile , Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Cephalid Coliseum
Sublime Archangel is worse than Hero because it doesn't generate as much of a threat or is as useful to the overall gameplan. There are many, many times when attacking with Geist alone doesn't cut it, which is why there are other creatures in the deck. Sublime forces the issue - you either attack with one thing or lose out on the reason you ran it in the first place.
Sun Titan - if I ever hit 6 mana I'm doing something wrong, or am really not in a position to tapout for anything that doesn't read "board wipe." It's okay with fetches, which are generally the only thing you're going to get back. Recurring swords isn't worth the 6 mana investment, and it's better to dump dead creatures into Moorland Haunt as you don't need to keep a removal magnet around for long and can do it on your opponent's turn.
Tamiyo doesn't do enough. Plus, if you hit 5 mana the best play is to play and equip feast and famine, ready to untap and go. The plus + isn't relevant, and the -2 is only good when you're either already winning or too far behind for it to matter.
Ancestral Vision has been good to me. It IS a poor topdeck, but the early game "I win" is too much to lose. You're spending one mana to draw 3 cards and seal the game from there. Almost every game where Vision has ticked to zero I win.
Land Tax - This is a worse topdeck than Vision is, and is easily one of the weaker cards in the deck. Tithe was suggested earlier, which is a good idea. I'm not sure if tax should actually be cut, but the downsides are there. On the turnaround, drawing 4 cards a turn seems good, even if three of them are lands. It ensures better draw quality, does obscene things with Jace, and is lovely advantage with Looter. However, I'm not sure looter should be sticking around either.
Artifacts/Enchantments - There are three ways of dealing with them right now, which I admit is not enough. First, there is Relic-Warder. Second, Oring (and Detention Sphere with RtR.) Third, there are counterspells and bounce.
I do believe more removal should be added, and indeed have been working on increasing the overall answer count.
I hope RtR gives Geist more toys
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I would imagine because the 'Sphere gives Geist a "Maelstrom Pulse" for tokens. Which I would also imagine are a problem for Geist, since he is only a 2/2.
what do you think of the now spoiled RTR Cards. Some of them seems fine for the Deck. Azorius Charm brings many opportunities. New Prahv Guildmage seems nice. But I am afraid that he is in fact to slow for the deck. Judge's familiar seems very good. 1/1 flying for swords. And the effective "instants and sorceries your opponents play cost 1 more to cast" effect for 1 mana seems very good.
Other thoughts?
Azorius Charm is likely going to make its way in, if only as more removal. Removal that pitches to force.
I don't like New Prahv Guidlmage for the reason you stated. It's slow. The flying buff is likely to be used only when you're already winning but need to get a sword trigger above ground, and gets a whole lot worse without edric decks clogging both earth and sky.
Judge's Familiar I'm not going to play. Perhaps if we were in a tempo heavy environment, but right now the order of the day is ramp. And familiar is rather bad against ramp.
I would imagine because the 'Sphere gives Geist a "Maelstrom Pulse" for tokens. Which I would also imagine are a problem for Geist, since he is only a 2/2.
Sphere deals with tokens, lots of them. It deals with troublesome planeswalkers and enchantments and whatever else I need. It deals with stuff. It pitches to force. It's a fine card to add.
Supreme Verdict - If uncounterable sweepers are necessary, this is where I'm going first. Excellent sweeper, better in GAAIV for semi obvious reasons. I don't want sweepers at the moment.
Stuff I'm looking at:
Soul Tithe Upkeep nonland Vindicate. I'm unlikely to use it, but it's there.
Tithe, of course, helps ensure I hit my land drops. Sometimes two. At instant speed! For one! Yes.
Seal of Removal is a bit of tech I've been looking at for awhile, and I gratefully accept it. With Oath decks everywhere, it seems, this gets better.
Sejiri Steppe has long been on my radar as a card I like to have, but never at the time I get it. With the addition of Tithe, I feel like I can drop a land in order to increase the effective power of my draws. This was the cut.
Silverblade Paladin is, to be honest, generally a win-more card. I don't need doublestrike. I don't need soulbond. Forcing WW sucks, and of course the art is terrible. :logic:
Two cards I'll be cutting eventually:
Peek - It's just kind of there. Good with Meddling Mage, but otherwise isn't the most optimal draw I could have.
Grand Abolisher - Doesn't do much. I already beat counterspell control, and hexproof Geist deals with removal. Plus, hitting WW on turn 2 can be tough, as I also want blue for daze, geist, or counters. Or, well, a lot.
And lastly, on the watchlist:
Sakashima's Student. To be honest, right now this is a four mana clone. I almost always would rather have four damage from Geist's angel than a clone, except in the cases of Animar or Edric. One of which is gone and the other of which is already a semifavorable matchup. I'll be testing Skymark Roc in it's place for the time being.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
What is the most effective way of dealing with blocker that comes with an ETB effect?
For instance, Eternal Witness . You don't want to bounce it, nor you want to O-ring/Journey to Nowhere it for fear that your opponent will blow up the enchantment and "3 for 1" you. This is also the reason I don't like Fiend Hunter.
Most often, it ends up trading with Geist and I have to recast it for 5. I am probably doing it wrong.
What is the most effective way of dealing with blocker that comes with an ETB effect?
For instance, Eternal Witness . You don't want to bounce it, nor you want to O-ring/Journey to Nowhere it for fear that your opponent will blow up the enchantment and "3 for 1" you. This is also the reason I don't like Fiend Hunter.
Most often, it ends up trading with Geist and I have to recast it for 5. I am probably doing it wrong.
Evasion!
Either by pumping Geist with a sword, elspeth, or enchantment, you can't really go wrong. You could also just beat in, but really only if you have some protection in hand and can instantly recast Geist. It's usually not worth it.
With Edric gone, Fiend Hunter is less useful, but with Griselbrand and other such nonsense generals coming up, it's still got a spot in dealing with them... at least until we get another removal spell printed. Functional Swords to Plowshares, anyone?
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Also, are there any cards you would cut/add if the meta was slower? My local store is going to be holding a 1v1 tournament in a month or so, but I don't expect the decks to be nearly as tuned as the Salvation meta (mostly just modified multiplayer, if I had to guess).
Also, are there any cards you would cut/add if the meta was slower? My local store is going to be holding a 1v1 tournament in a month or so, but I don't expect the decks to be nearly as tuned as the Salvation meta (mostly just modified multiplayer, if I had to guess).
I really like Spectral Flight as it is cheap, grants evasion and helps you evade many mass removal spells (such as volcanic fallout and pyroclasm).
Also, are there any cards you would cut/add if the meta was slower? My local store is going to be holding a 1v1 tournament in a month or so, but I don't expect the decks to be nearly as tuned as the Salvation meta (mostly just modified multiplayer, if I had to guess).
Spectral flight is a fine card. 2 mana to avoid claims, blockers, and more is quite good. I do not run it at the moment but it is definitely a plausible addition later on.
If the meta were slower (and I may do this anyways) I would do what Asimov has done and included verdict, possibly wrath, and turned to a more spell-based approach. I am currently testing dropping leonin relic-warder to disenchant, as blockers are less important with no Edric. Mystical tutor is another fine option, but I still do not like an excess of swords and planes walkers. Skymark roc is another card that would have been fantastic pre-bannings, but right now isn't effective enough except against weenie builds, dealt with through wraths.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
If you don't mind me asking, how should I expect games to play out? Do I generally want to run Geist out on t3 and kill them as fast as possible while countering/removing their guys? Or should I wait until ~t5 so that I can play him with counter backup, and take a more controlling approach to the games?
Are there advantages/disadvantages to either of these strategies?
Also, would you recommend Armageddon effects in a slower meta/now that Edric has been banned?
R1 Edric
Game One - I'm on the play and I force spike his turn one play and drop Geist on turn 3 which is enough when I am able to drop spectral flight.
Game Two - This was a really close game in which I get him down to 7 life with geist + destiny, removing his Edric a couple of times. By that time he has managed to build up some board position and promptly put me in danger of lethal the next turn. I topdeck steel of the godhead for the win.
R2 Edric
Game One - I lose quickly to a horde of creatures + Wonder.
Game Two - Land tax, tallowisp, geist, steel of the godhead is a pretty good curve and he doesn't recover.
Game Three - The game is really close but he wins in extra turns when he drops opposition, I counter and he counters back. Interesting occurence: Sower taking Edric, which he then metamorphed, eot restoration angel on sower. It wasn't enough though when he found bounce for sower.
R3 Jhoira
Game One - I drop geist and spectral flight which makes it a pretty easy win.
Game Two - I counter whipflare and his combo isn't fast enough to beat my geist beatdown.
Complicate was really good the one time I got to cast it, and the uncounterable mattered as he had force in hand. Spectral flight was very good as another aura, I think unstable mutation might have some potential as well (and the new ajani). Delver was decent, although not stellar. The cycling lands were pretty useful as I tended to get flooded more often than not (with 38 lands). Aether adept was fine but not very impressive so I think I will cut it again. I didn't see the other additions.
I liked the cycling lands better than steppe as they always drew me a card. Warder and hunter just seemed to die all the time.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
I'm looking for a slot for Psionic Blast for testing at the very least. Blue Char(izard) is fantastic now and will be forever. Vedalken Shackles seems likely.
I'm sure on this one. A lot of your listed "uncomfortable positions" are also situations where other cards work just as well, and have applications relating to MY gameplan instead of just my opponents. It's a cute interaction, and useless in many matchups. When I did try it out, all it really did was make my opponent play a half turn slower. This deck doesn't really care about that.
It's something I'm going to try. While it doesn't protect itself, nothing about the card says "defense" so I think that's fine. Turning Geist into something that CAN actually win a combat without needing a sword seems fine by me. The more times I get to turn him sideways, the more I win. Doublestrike and flying is just cake.
For the longest time I looked at exalted creatures to go with Geist. It fits well, the angel pretty much negates any advantage gained by attacking in a group, which means the exalted can kick in to perfectly boost him. Unfortunately, the better exalted creatures are multicolor, and the ones that do work aren't useful enough to use or are too aggressive and require a different game-plan, one that loses to the meta-hate decks.
Being a land, this does have good potential to be useful. Coming into play tapped might kill it off though. I'll test it.
This card made me giggle with the possibilities. If Geist goes a bit more mid-range, this and hero of bladehold would be fantastic four-drop finishers. As of now, the cheaper tempo plan is working in the current meta.
I think it may be too slow. I prefer removal that deals with the problem NOW. In a world with Edric and Zur and others with instant impact on the game-state, removal that takes a turn to kick in just doesnt work. This is part of my reasoning for not liking shackles.
I remember testing this near the beginning of the deck, and finding it rather decent for the purely control geist builds. This deck is too streamlined for a different purpose to use Vanish effectively, in my opinion.
Yeah, not thinking about more of this effect. It's just not good right now.
I think the sacrifice might be too much of a cost to pay unless I have flagstones or geist in attack mode. As I won't have these all the time, I don't like it. In fact, I would probably play See Beyond over this, because of the ability to shuffle dead cards away. Research has a deck, but it's not this one.
My reasoning for not wanting it stands. I like draws that mean something - Tax, tithe, spike, and pierce are all much better draws than this is, and can affect how the game ends in a more positive manner. Provided I live a turn, Tax has the potential to draw me 4 cards. Tithe and Spike and pierce can stop those ugly tap-out control decks, even late game. Amulet? It's great early on, but after that sinks to low I can't afford.
Restoration Angel is just better, and interacts with my deck and my opponents in a much more positive manner. Hero just killed the opponent, restoration angel kills the opponent and gets me card advantage at the same time.
Your reasoning for tithe is sound however I like tax at the moment mostly because it's a repeatable effect, which filters out quite a bit of land; It works with Jace, with Looter, with Brainstorm, ect. It's got more uses outside of just getting land. I have also won a game by Enlightened Tutoring for it after being stuck on two lands for a time. I will test Tithe over it, though.
It's an extra 1cc counterspell that nods to the other tempo decks and meta-hate decks who love to get into counterwars. I like it, but this might just be a pet card.
Edric.
It's win-more to me; I don't particularly like it. Now, if it were Balance....
It's impossible to annoy me unless you're 6, constantly require my attention, and don't know how to make yer own damn sandwich. On that note, someone help - he's still here.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Oh My God C-C-C-COMBO!
I never thought about playing Tithe in this manner holy crap. I play the six fetchlands, Tithe, and OG duals in Kaalia, so wow this helps so much and I cannot believe I never realized this line of play until just now.
Thank you so much for asking these questions, and I now thank myself for reading this post today!
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
They're terrible counterspells. Even if tuck was played under the french banlist, I still wouldn't run them.
No tuck, no tuck-counters.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I decided to test out my screen capture program with a game with geist. It's pretty twitchy, but it's clear what's going on. Kind of interesting to watch my mouse follow my train of thought.
So, here you go - for your viewing pleasure: Relevance
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
This. It's the same reason why I don't run it.
On the other hand, I think the Auras give Geist a little bit more staying power against quite a few decks. I don't think Angelic Destiny will be cut from my list any time soon, the three turn effectively unblockable clock is cake, not to mention it turns any of your creatures into a game-ender on their own. Steel of the Godhead is admittedly not as strong as destiny, but I've found the unblockability + lifelink to be relevant enough times that it's secure for the time being.
How has Cathedral of War been for you? I haven't had much time for testing M13.
I can't imagine your four slot being happy.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
You've got a huge amount of four drops.
This is true, at least for Steel. It only provides half a buff to most of the creatures in the deck. Destiny, at least, provides the full +4/+4 plus goodies and doesn't require your general to max itself out.
I was running it for awhile, but felt I was drawing too many swords and not enough business. I will test sword again instead of steel and see how it goes. This will probably also mean cutting Tallowisp or trying Seal of Removal again.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Is silent departure better than vapor snag? 5 mana sorcery speed flashback seems very slow. How have you been finding gideon and tamiyo? I'm hesitant to add anything above 4 mana to my list because it just seems so slow.
Any reason that you aren't playing standstill / land tax? I have found them to be quite good. I have been considering tithe as well.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Seachrome Coast Most of the time, it comes down tapped. You don't want to lose tempo with this deck. In fact, I will go as far as cutting Celestial Colonnade and Faerie Conclave. You may consider Blinkmoth Nexus
This is true, Destiny won't go back. But that's alright. Sometimes it's correct to let geist go to the grave and slam that sucker on another creature to continue the pressure.
Every time the coast comes down tapped, you're already at the top of your curve and it's much less relevant. You can win with only two or three mana, if seachrome comes in tapped you're at four and shouldn't be as concerned. The untapped dual prior to that makes it worth it.
Colonnade and Conclave are uncuttable at the moment. It's your best way of attacking Edric or Oath decks, because it's effectively an uncounterable creature. For edric this means you can focus everything on killing edric and oath can't trigger if you don't have creatures out.
Blinkmoth is likely to find a spot anyways.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
If i'm not mistaken, the keyword "dies" is the shortened version of "goes to the graveyard" which is pretty silly in my opinion because of just this confusion.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I am of the opinion that Destiny is too good to lose. While it IS at it's best with Geist, it can also turn any one of your creatures into a game-ending threat all it's own.
I really don't like 'lark here. It's slow and isn't going to give it's largest benefit until you've gone really late in the game, when you've probably already lost anyways. If you don't like destiny, the next best option I can think of is Hero of Bladehold.
I don't run sweepers right now and am unlikely to revert to them as of now. Too many extinction builds which lose to the tempo generated by bounce and don't care about sweepers.
If I did run them again, I would easily run it along with Mystical Tutor as possibly the *only* sweeper. You should only need it once. GAAIV, on the other hand, would run all three good white sweepers + terminus.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
What do you think of Sun Titan and Tamiyo, the Moon Sage.
Gaka, I would also like your advice on dealing with resolved artifact/enchantment. I wish we have Nature's Claim in our color.
Weak cards or cards that don't do enough in your current decklist.
Ancestral Vision Only good if you have it early and a weak top deck otherwise.
Land Tax Good on the draw. Again, poor top deck at late game. Though, it works great with Path to Exile , Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Cephalid Coliseum
Sublime Archangel is worse than Hero because it doesn't generate as much of a threat or is as useful to the overall gameplan. There are many, many times when attacking with Geist alone doesn't cut it, which is why there are other creatures in the deck. Sublime forces the issue - you either attack with one thing or lose out on the reason you ran it in the first place.
Sun Titan - if I ever hit 6 mana I'm doing something wrong, or am really not in a position to tapout for anything that doesn't read "board wipe." It's okay with fetches, which are generally the only thing you're going to get back. Recurring swords isn't worth the 6 mana investment, and it's better to dump dead creatures into Moorland Haunt as you don't need to keep a removal magnet around for long and can do it on your opponent's turn.
Tamiyo doesn't do enough. Plus, if you hit 5 mana the best play is to play and equip feast and famine, ready to untap and go. The plus + isn't relevant, and the -2 is only good when you're either already winning or too far behind for it to matter.
Ancestral Vision has been good to me. It IS a poor topdeck, but the early game "I win" is too much to lose. You're spending one mana to draw 3 cards and seal the game from there. Almost every game where Vision has ticked to zero I win.
Land Tax - This is a worse topdeck than Vision is, and is easily one of the weaker cards in the deck. Tithe was suggested earlier, which is a good idea. I'm not sure if tax should actually be cut, but the downsides are there. On the turnaround, drawing 4 cards a turn seems good, even if three of them are lands. It ensures better draw quality, does obscene things with Jace, and is lovely advantage with Looter. However, I'm not sure looter should be sticking around either.
Artifacts/Enchantments - There are three ways of dealing with them right now, which I admit is not enough. First, there is Relic-Warder. Second, Oring (and Detention Sphere with RtR.) Third, there are counterspells and bounce.
I do believe more removal should be added, and indeed have been working on increasing the overall answer count.
I hope RtR gives Geist more toys
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I would imagine because the 'Sphere gives Geist a "Maelstrom Pulse" for tokens. Which I would also imagine are a problem for Geist, since he is only a 2/2.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Azorius Charm is likely going to make its way in, if only as more removal. Removal that pitches to force.
I don't like New Prahv Guidlmage for the reason you stated. It's slow. The flying buff is likely to be used only when you're already winning but need to get a sword trigger above ground, and gets a whole lot worse without edric decks clogging both earth and sky.
Judge's Familiar I'm not going to play. Perhaps if we were in a tempo heavy environment, but right now the order of the day is ramp. And familiar is rather bad against ramp.
Sphere deals with tokens, lots of them. It deals with troublesome planeswalkers and enchantments and whatever else I need. It deals with stuff. It pitches to force. It's a fine card to add.
Supreme Verdict - If uncounterable sweepers are necessary, this is where I'm going first. Excellent sweeper, better in GAAIV for semi obvious reasons. I don't want sweepers at the moment.
Stuff I'm looking at:
Soul Tithe Upkeep nonland Vindicate. I'm unlikely to use it, but it's there.
Cyclonic Rift Bounce, end game. Shrug.
Dramatic Rescue I'd play Vapor Snag before this, but I consider everything.
Lyev Skyknight A 3/1 flier with an interesting ETB effect. I'm passing based on the fact that I am not heavy on taxing.
Skymark Roc Hello sweetness. 3/3 for four with quite a fun ability. Here:
Whenever Skymark Roc attacks, you may return target creature defending player controls with toughness 2 or less to its owner's hand.
Worse without edric, but is still playable in that it slows down animar and other creature-based decks.
And of course, some pre RTR changes.
+ Tithe
+ Seal of Removal
- Sejiri Steppe
- Silverblade Paladin
Tithe, of course, helps ensure I hit my land drops. Sometimes two. At instant speed! For one! Yes.
Seal of Removal is a bit of tech I've been looking at for awhile, and I gratefully accept it. With Oath decks everywhere, it seems, this gets better.
Sejiri Steppe has long been on my radar as a card I like to have, but never at the time I get it. With the addition of Tithe, I feel like I can drop a land in order to increase the effective power of my draws. This was the cut.
Silverblade Paladin is, to be honest, generally a win-more card. I don't need doublestrike. I don't need soulbond. Forcing WW sucks, and of course the art is terrible. :logic:
Two cards I'll be cutting eventually:
Peek - It's just kind of there. Good with Meddling Mage, but otherwise isn't the most optimal draw I could have.
Grand Abolisher - Doesn't do much. I already beat counterspell control, and hexproof Geist deals with removal. Plus, hitting WW on turn 2 can be tough, as I also want blue for daze, geist, or counters. Or, well, a lot.
And lastly, on the watchlist:
Sakashima's Student. To be honest, right now this is a four mana clone. I almost always would rather have four damage from Geist's angel than a clone, except in the cases of Animar or Edric. One of which is gone and the other of which is already a semifavorable matchup. I'll be testing Skymark Roc in it's place for the time being.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Doesn't do anything. No matchups improve, and makes some worse (when you want to have a good density of draws that do something useful)
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
What is the most effective way of dealing with blocker that comes with an ETB effect?
For instance, Eternal Witness . You don't want to bounce it, nor you want to O-ring/Journey to Nowhere it for fear that your opponent will blow up the enchantment and "3 for 1" you. This is also the reason I don't like Fiend Hunter.
Most often, it ends up trading with Geist and I have to recast it for 5. I am probably doing it wrong.
Evasion!
Either by pumping Geist with a sword, elspeth, or enchantment, you can't really go wrong. You could also just beat in, but really only if you have some protection in hand and can instantly recast Geist. It's usually not worth it.
With Edric gone, Fiend Hunter is less useful, but with Griselbrand and other such nonsense generals coming up, it's still got a spot in dealing with them... at least until we get another removal spell printed. Functional Swords to Plowshares, anyone?
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Also, are there any cards you would cut/add if the meta was slower? My local store is going to be holding a 1v1 tournament in a month or so, but I don't expect the decks to be nearly as tuned as the Salvation meta (mostly just modified multiplayer, if I had to guess).
I really like Spectral Flight as it is cheap, grants evasion and helps you evade many mass removal spells (such as volcanic fallout and pyroclasm).
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Spectral flight is a fine card. 2 mana to avoid claims, blockers, and more is quite good. I do not run it at the moment but it is definitely a plausible addition later on.
If the meta were slower (and I may do this anyways) I would do what Asimov has done and included verdict, possibly wrath, and turned to a more spell-based approach. I am currently testing dropping leonin relic-warder to disenchant, as blockers are less important with no Edric. Mystical tutor is another fine option, but I still do not like an excess of swords and planes walkers. Skymark roc is another card that would have been fantastic pre-bannings, but right now isn't effective enough except against weenie builds, dealt with through wraths.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
If you don't mind me asking, how should I expect games to play out? Do I generally want to run Geist out on t3 and kill them as fast as possible while countering/removing their guys? Or should I wait until ~t5 so that I can play him with counter backup, and take a more controlling approach to the games?
Are there advantages/disadvantages to either of these strategies?
Also, would you recommend Armageddon effects in a slower meta/now that Edric has been banned?