@handsome: Its blasphemic that you didn't know about the scroll lol! Thats a staple!
And yeah, sage is better than martyr IMO, I need both due to keeping curve down, but I LOVE a T1 sage more than ANYTHING besides T1 sol ring.
Like, I keep 1 land hands and sage because I know I'll dig into 2 more out of the top4 most of the time.
Martyr is great too though.
T2 he can counter everything, and in theory you draw enough that he's always relevant.
@farchyld:
I love minamo.
there have been many times where I have extra mana floating after a counterwar, and untapping azami and drawing again is a perfect use for it.
fetches are remnants of an earlier build with scroll rack in it.
I'd dump undesirable stuff and make it disappear. Scroll rack is sideboarded tho so I didn't want to dump them.
Probably going to cut tower and a few more wizards myself, streamlining a bit more.
And my time spells too.
Just gotta make it faster...
Oh, one more piece of unrelated news
I LOVE ANIMAR!
he's my new multiplayer general (dismantling vig, putting sharuum in "the box" for a while) so I'll still be rocking 1v1 with azami, but DANG will multiplayer be fun with animar! hes so stupidly cool.
And he can enable palinchron combo with no mana doubling!
Three games vs Rhys the Redeemed. Won each game handily, no real issues. Then I moved onto Gaddock Teeg. Oh. My. God.
It was pretty bad. The deck completely shuts Azami down. I couldn't play a majority of my spells, and the little critters that were maindeck were just silver bullet after silver bullet. It certainly sent my belief that the deck itself was competitive against any other commander in 1v1, spiraling down the toilet!
I learned something tonight, which is a goal of mine whenever I lose. The power of High Market. I had stolen Teeg numerous times during the night, but had no way to remove him. If I had a High Market, the whole mess could have been avoided. I've placed an order, and will be fitting one into the build asap.
What about you guys? Aggro seems to have become a little easier for me, but suddenly this very, very good Teeg deck demolished Azami. Bad games? I know the guy pretty well who pilots it, and I'm actually excited that something gave me such a hard time to play against. I eagerly await some rematches next week.
The only cards I've ever seen in mono-blue decks really deter Teeg are Wipe Away and Hibernation. My meta has at some point or another been sooo Green heavy, that mainboard green hate was necessary (yes, this is for the Duel decks), and especially cards like Wipe Away that are almost exclusively in the deck to deal with Teeg long enough in the late game to be able to play your combos.
I've also played against mono-blue decks where I thought my lockdown was almost assuredly unbeatable.. only to lose to an Ixidron out of nowhere. Seriously, that card owns against G/W decks, so hard.
wipe away
venser
capsize
echoing truth
temporal adept
or countering it when it comes down.
I've been working on a more counterspell/take control azami deck in staid of pure combo. I still run the mind over matter combo but not much more than that. Is that a viable idea or should I just cut all the counter spells and go back to trying to play straight combo?
Because the combo win was strongly suggested when I posted my list on page ten, I tried incorporating more combo pieces (palinchron and high tide) to my 100. I thought that since I was more comfortable stealing and copying my opponents' stuff, I shouldn't switch to the dedicated combo build immediately. Here are some of my observations, in relation to the issues mentioned in the posts above:
1. Minamo, School at Water's Edge and Riptide Laboratory can be helpful when you pull off the Palinchron+mana doubler combo and you're not holding the "I win" cards like Capsize, Diviner's Wand or Blue Sun's Zenith. Palinchron untaps Minamo and Riptide lab so you can reuse them repeatedly to draw as many cards with Azami as needed. Voidmage Husher also helped in drawing more cards with Azami because she can bounce back to my hand everytime I cast Palinchron.
2. Less mana is needed to go infinite with Palinchron because of the Clones. With Palinchron you need 12 mana to win (Palinchron * 7cc + Return to hand ability * 4 mana + 1 extra mana for infinity = 12). With a Clone or Phyrexian Metamorph copying Palinchron, you only need 9 mana because of the reduced casting cost.
By the way, has anyone tested with Pemmin's Aura? With a mana doubler, you can have infinite mana when you enchant Fatestitcher with it and then use it untap an island repeatedly. Afterwards the mana can be used to play Azami and then Fatestitcher can be repeatedly untapped to draw cards.
I like the way you think with Minamo, School at Water's Edge. I'm going to reconsider adding it to the deck. However, Voidmage Husher, Clone, Pemmin's Aura and Fatestitcher still feel underwhelming by themselves, and thus basically dead cards unless I get them in the correct order. I'm trying to keep the number of cards like that in my build to an absolute minimum.
You have made a great case for Minamo, which kinda sucks. I'm so tight on land as it is, haha.
2. true enough the clones help to lower the curve of the palinchron + high tide combo as explained well by mamiso.
3. they are simply great in copying cards that provide additional advantage. special mention to primeval titan and oracle of mul daya for mana acceleration, sun titan and eternal witness for recursion, fleshbag marauder, shriekmaw, and acidic slime for permanent hate. the list goes on. the point being, blue in itself, cannot provide these board advantages. but blue can copy these effects and use it to provide more gas or more resiliency for its combos.
4. they can also copy your own wizards for more drawing/countering power. just one extra copy of patron wizard or voidmage prodigy present in the board would really be problematic to any opponent.
5. lastly, and perhaps the most lame reason i could think of, the clones provide an extra blocker to buy you an extra turn.
Of the clones, Phyrexian Metamorph is really the only one I'm interested. It's a clone and an artifact, and we can make it cost 3. Not sure what I'd cut. It's a fine process
Mmmm I hadn't thought of the interaction between Academy Ruins and Phyrexian Metamorph. That's really really nice. I need to edit the main post with all of these wonderful card combo's we've covered in the past 13 pages!
How has the deck done for you lately, Mantxi?
As an aside, I need to find someone with an artistic bone to create a banner for the first post. Something nice that I don't need to hide in a spoiler
Wait, we've discussed metamorph and academy ruins like 8 times already
But yeah, metamorph is so wonderful.
I think it was even in 1 of my reports how I kept recurring it to kill scion.
Anyway, I always run minamo, its godly.
Tolaria west is necessary.
Namely, anti-boseiju tech in game2, in game 1 it fetches: riptide, academy ruins, minamo, *pact of negation.
I think thats the key really. Plenty of times I've chosen to get the pact so that I'd have an extra counterspell.
That said, I don't see teeg as too huge of a threat.
Usually he's kind of slow, as in he wins like t9 through beatdown. All you need is to disrupt squirrel nest/stuffy doll and he's out of combos.
i also avoid having many cmc 4+counter spells. And of course capsize is in every deck I make.
Well, I guess I may just be lucky, but teeg hasn't been a problem here.
Just lyzolda and other super aggro/disrupting stuff.
Like clique, I got annihilated by a clique deck the other day.
My memory is pretty bad. I'll admit that! I've gone and ordered a promo one to take a spot in my deck.
I've done some/am doing some/will be doing more revamping on the first post. Have a request in for a banner. V1.03 of my current build is up for discussion/testing. I have the history section reorganized, as well as some in depth explanations. If you see anything that's missing or need correction, let me know!
I really don't like taking out ertai, but my meta allows sol ring and mana crypt, so he's decidedly better for me since I can power him out T1 and have him online T2 (rarely).
Likewise, thats what makes surgespanner work for me, having her out T2 and swinging T3 is a blowout against non-aggro decks. just keeps them stuck at 2 lands.
I can see why you chose stroke over BSZ, let me know how it does.
The only reason I prefer bsz is I use it on myself to draw into answers in some really dire straits, and not being able to do that might be problematic, but the consistency gained by only needing U may be worth it.
I also dislike temporal adept. IMO capsize over that all day erry day.
Otherwise I like the changes.
And yeah, I can't help with the banner, no art skill at all, sorry.
Toss Etherium Sculptor?
honestly the sensei/helm of awakening combo goes online far to rarely (and at too high of a mana cost) for it be a consistent win-con. I've never actually gotten the win with it, now that I think about it - the pieces always get destroyed or just my other/better combos assemble faster (especially with all dem tutors I run)
Even then, Cloud Key is so vastly superior to it due to having actual utility use (making capsize 5 mana can actually be relevant!) & better durability.
I'd actually scrap the whole sensei/future sight combo, its never done me good, and you can fit in diviner's wand, capsize, and something else into that space instead.
...I never saw that rings/basalt wasn't on your list >_<
But when I was going on about diviner's wand the other day (and drift of phantasms) I mentioned that combo.
...Maybe I just talk so much that you filter it out
Well, I'd like to throw out my reccomendation for drift of phantasms again.
If you throw in capsize, drift, basalt, and diviner's wand you all of a sudden can target 1/3 of your deck, including several wincons (BSZ, Wand, Capsize after infinimana) you can hit your infinimana cards (rings, basalt) and several 3cmc wizards/eye of ramos and counters.
Its been amazing for me. I only wish transmute was instant speed.
But oh well, with 3 free counterspells in deck, I usually wait to transmute till i have one in hand or patron wizard/glen elendra or some other beast on the field.
Also, I've been testing azure mage, never bothered to mention it in the thread cause I have never ever been glad to see it.
Even lighthouse chronologist is better in most situations.
Just... the 1 U in its draw cost REALLY hurts. Unlike diviner's wand you don't get a rings/basalt infinite from it... and I always even at EOT have something better to do with 4 mana.
Just my two cents, it may work better for you than it did for me.
Should be a good night tonight. Looking to get some testing in with the latest version. Also; revenge!
I am curious as to what M12 holds. Looking forward to new cards adds to the excitement.
With V1.04, I think my first change may to be to include Expedition Map. Now that the utility lands I have in MB are getting pretty important, it's nice to have another way to track them down. Also Trinket Mage -> Expedition Map -> Utility Land is fun!
*EDIT*
And tonight's results...
First match, two games vs Wort, Boggart Auntie. Both games went very quick. I took a few beatings in the first game, but ultimately was able to combo off and Stroke for 50,000. Second game I managed a *turn 4* combo and won.
Third match, Uril, the Miststalker. First game I staved him off at about 16 health before comboing and swinging in with a 48/50 Flying Azami, Lady of Scrolls. Second game was much easier on my nerves and combo'd off again.
Fourth match, Gaddock Teeg.. Finally, I've been looking forward to this. Last week this guy (great player, awesome member of our playgroup) trounced me 3-0. No issue. This week I intended it to be different. These were by far my most difficult games of the night. In game 1, he got Teeg out, had plenty of mana, and Teeg had a Sword of Fire and Ice. Then the fun began. With seven islands, I transmuted Muddle the Mixture. With Grim Monolith in hand, I brought out Power Artifact, tapping out of blue mana. Dropped Diviner's Wand. Equipped it to a Sage of Ephityr. Drew my deck, and attacked with a very large, very much in-flight wizard.
I'm sure he'll be looking for some payback next week and I await it. I love the competitive environment we have. Makes me a better player through optimization and learning some painful lessons! haha.
So, Diviner's Wand is confirmed as amazing win-con?
Also check out this guy! http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=331214
I like him better than the other new wizard.
He is flat out bloody amazing and instantly in.
+1 for drift of phantasms, another amazing target for tutoring!
I am uncertain about this new Windfall Wizard. Something I'd need to think a bit more on.
It seemed both games he had moderate starts. Nothing T1, but consistent plays T2 onward. We play with the 30 life variation to help aggro decks, so I was on more of a clock then normal, but the pressure really wasn't there.
Have any of you guys played lately and can post some results?
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Sage of Epityr is a solid 1 drop. Not many good ones but they do exist!
And yeah, sage is better than martyr IMO, I need both due to keeping curve down, but I LOVE a T1 sage more than ANYTHING besides T1 sol ring.
Like, I keep 1 land hands and sage because I know I'll dig into 2 more out of the top4 most of the time.
Martyr is great too though.
T2 he can counter everything, and in theory you draw enough that he's always relevant.
@farchyld:
I love minamo.
there have been many times where I have extra mana floating after a counterwar, and untapping azami and drawing again is a perfect use for it.
fetches are remnants of an earlier build with scroll rack in it.
I'd dump undesirable stuff and make it disappear. Scroll rack is sideboarded tho so I didn't want to dump them.
Probably going to cut tower and a few more wizards myself, streamlining a bit more.
And my time spells too.
Just gotta make it faster...
Oh, one more piece of unrelated news
I LOVE ANIMAR!
he's my new multiplayer general (dismantling vig, putting sharuum in "the box" for a while) so I'll still be rocking 1v1 with azami, but DANG will multiplayer be fun with animar! hes so stupidly cool.
And he can enable palinchron combo with no mana doubling!
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
Three games vs Rhys the Redeemed. Won each game handily, no real issues. Then I moved onto Gaddock Teeg. Oh. My. God.
It was pretty bad. The deck completely shuts Azami down. I couldn't play a majority of my spells, and the little critters that were maindeck were just silver bullet after silver bullet. It certainly sent my belief that the deck itself was competitive against any other commander in 1v1, spiraling down the toilet!
I learned something tonight, which is a goal of mine whenever I lose. The power of High Market. I had stolen Teeg numerous times during the night, but had no way to remove him. If I had a High Market, the whole mess could have been avoided. I've placed an order, and will be fitting one into the build asap.
What about you guys? Aggro seems to have become a little easier for me, but suddenly this very, very good Teeg deck demolished Azami. Bad games? I know the guy pretty well who pilots it, and I'm actually excited that something gave me such a hard time to play against. I eagerly await some rematches next week.
I've also played against mono-blue decks where I thought my lockdown was almost assuredly unbeatable.. only to lose to an Ixidron out of nowhere. Seriously, that card owns against G/W decks, so hard.
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Ixidron is a great answer to Teeg. I love it, hahaha. Gotta work through these things now.
wipe away
venser
capsize
echoing truth
temporal adept
or countering it when it comes down.
I've been working on a more counterspell/take control azami deck in staid of pure combo. I still run the mind over matter combo but not much more than that. Is that a viable idea or should I just cut all the counter spells and go back to trying to play straight combo?
Also, please use card tags. Sometimes we come across cards referenced that we may not know. Tagging makes everyones life easier!
Temporal Adept and Capsize are making strong cases for inclusion, that's for certain.
1. Minamo, School at Water's Edge and Riptide Laboratory can be helpful when you pull off the Palinchron+mana doubler combo and you're not holding the "I win" cards like Capsize, Diviner's Wand or Blue Sun's Zenith. Palinchron untaps Minamo and Riptide lab so you can reuse them repeatedly to draw as many cards with Azami as needed. Voidmage Husher also helped in drawing more cards with Azami because she can bounce back to my hand everytime I cast Palinchron.
2. Less mana is needed to go infinite with Palinchron because of the Clones. With Palinchron you need 12 mana to win (Palinchron * 7cc + Return to hand ability * 4 mana + 1 extra mana for infinity = 12). With a Clone or Phyrexian Metamorph copying Palinchron, you only need 9 mana because of the reduced casting cost.
3. Clones kill Gaddock Teeg and Hokori, Dust Drinker and Braids, Cabal Minion.
By the way, has anyone tested with Pemmin's Aura? With a mana doubler, you can have infinite mana when you enchant Fatestitcher with it and then use it untap an island repeatedly. Afterwards the mana can be used to play Azami and then Fatestitcher can be repeatedly untapped to draw cards.
You have made a great case for Minamo, which kinda sucks. I'm so tight on land as it is, haha.
1. the abilities of the clones (i.e. clone, phyrexian metamorph, vesuvan doppelganger, vesuvan shapeshifter) are non-targetted and are great against the generals of aggro decks (uril, the miststalker, a protected zur the enchanter or rafiq of the many, as well as the problematic cards of lockdown builds (gaddock teeg, hokori, dust drinker, iona, shield of emeria, braids, cabal minion). remember that these decks will definitely run hexproof and shroud effects as defense against the blue mages' tricks; but the clone creatures can shut these creatures down even with protection.
2. true enough the clones help to lower the curve of the palinchron + high tide combo as explained well by mamiso.
3. they are simply great in copying cards that provide additional advantage. special mention to primeval titan and oracle of mul daya for mana acceleration, sun titan and eternal witness for recursion, fleshbag marauder, shriekmaw, and acidic slime for permanent hate. the list goes on. the point being, blue in itself, cannot provide these board advantages. but blue can copy these effects and use it to provide more gas or more resiliency for its combos.
4. they can also copy your own wizards for more drawing/countering power. just one extra copy of patron wizard or voidmage prodigy present in the board would really be problematic to any opponent.
5. lastly, and perhaps the most lame reason i could think of, the clones provide an extra blocker to buy you an extra turn.
How has the deck done for you lately, Mantxi?
As an aside, I need to find someone with an artistic bone to create a banner for the first post. Something nice that I don't need to hide in a spoiler
But yeah, metamorph is so wonderful.
I think it was even in 1 of my reports how I kept recurring it to kill scion.
Anyway, I always run minamo, its godly.
Tolaria west is necessary.
Namely, anti-boseiju tech in game2, in game 1 it fetches: riptide, academy ruins, minamo, *pact of negation.
I think thats the key really. Plenty of times I've chosen to get the pact so that I'd have an extra counterspell.
That said, I don't see teeg as too huge of a threat.
Usually he's kind of slow, as in he wins like t9 through beatdown. All you need is to disrupt squirrel nest/stuffy doll and he's out of combos.
i also avoid having many cmc 4+counter spells. And of course capsize is in every deck I make.
Well, I guess I may just be lucky, but teeg hasn't been a problem here.
Just lyzolda and other super aggro/disrupting stuff.
Like clique, I got annihilated by a clique deck the other day.
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
I've done some/am doing some/will be doing more revamping on the first post. Have a request in for a banner. V1.03 of my current build is up for discussion/testing. I have the history section reorganized, as well as some in depth explanations. If you see anything that's missing or need correction, let me know!
Likewise, thats what makes surgespanner work for me, having her out T2 and swinging T3 is a blowout against non-aggro decks. just keeps them stuck at 2 lands.
I can see why you chose stroke over BSZ, let me know how it does.
The only reason I prefer bsz is I use it on myself to draw into answers in some really dire straits, and not being able to do that might be problematic, but the consistency gained by only needing U may be worth it.
I also dislike temporal adept. IMO capsize over that all day erry day.
Otherwise I like the changes.
And yeah, I can't help with the banner, no art skill at all, sorry.
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
Etherium Sculptor?
honestly the sensei/helm of awakening combo goes online far to rarely (and at too high of a mana cost) for it be a consistent win-con. I've never actually gotten the win with it, now that I think about it - the pieces always get destroyed or just my other/better combos assemble faster (especially with all dem tutors I run)
Even then, Cloud Key is so vastly superior to it due to having actual utility use (making capsize 5 mana can actually be relevant!) & better durability.
I'd actually scrap the whole sensei/future sight combo, its never done me good, and you can fit in diviner's wand, capsize, and something else into that space instead.
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
EDIT: ALSO SPIFFY BANNER YAY!
Anywho, I'll add it to the list of stuff to consider and see about getting it in! Thanks!
But when I was going on about diviner's wand the other day (and drift of phantasms) I mentioned that combo.
...Maybe I just talk so much that you filter it out
Well, I'd like to throw out my reccomendation for drift of phantasms again.
If you throw in capsize, drift, basalt, and diviner's wand you all of a sudden can target 1/3 of your deck, including several wincons (BSZ, Wand, Capsize after infinimana) you can hit your infinimana cards (rings, basalt) and several 3cmc wizards/eye of ramos and counters.
Its been amazing for me. I only wish transmute was instant speed.
But oh well, with 3 free counterspells in deck, I usually wait to transmute till i have one in hand or patron wizard/glen elendra or some other beast on the field.
Also, I've been testing azure mage, never bothered to mention it in the thread cause I have never ever been glad to see it.
Even lighthouse chronologist is better in most situations.
Just... the 1 U in its draw cost REALLY hurts. Unlike diviner's wand you don't get a rings/basalt infinite from it... and I always even at EOT have something better to do with 4 mana.
Just my two cents, it may work better for you than it did for me.
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
I am curious as to what M12 holds. Looking forward to new cards adds to the excitement.
With V1.04, I think my first change may to be to include Expedition Map. Now that the utility lands I have in MB are getting pretty important, it's nice to have another way to track them down. Also Trinket Mage -> Expedition Map -> Utility Land is fun!
*EDIT*
And tonight's results...
First match, two games vs Wort, Boggart Auntie. Both games went very quick. I took a few beatings in the first game, but ultimately was able to combo off and Stroke for 50,000. Second game I managed a *turn 4* combo and won.
Second match, two games vs Momir Vig, Simic Visionary. I don't remember a whole lot about these, but I did manage to get Vedalken Shackles and High Market in play. Both were won handily, and quickly.
Third match, Uril, the Miststalker. First game I staved him off at about 16 health before comboing and swinging in with a 48/50 Flying Azami, Lady of Scrolls. Second game was much easier on my nerves and combo'd off again.
Fourth match, Gaddock Teeg.. Finally, I've been looking forward to this. Last week this guy (great player, awesome member of our playgroup) trounced me 3-0. No issue. This week I intended it to be different. These were by far my most difficult games of the night. In game 1, he got Teeg out, had plenty of mana, and Teeg had a Sword of Fire and Ice. Then the fun began. With seven islands, I transmuted Muddle the Mixture. With Grim Monolith in hand, I brought out Power Artifact, tapping out of blue mana. Dropped Diviner's Wand. Equipped it to a Sage of Ephityr. Drew my deck, and attacked with a very large, very much in-flight wizard.
Last game in this match, he had Teeg in play. Teeg had a Sword of Fire and Ice, and Lightning Greaves on. He had Admonition Angel, a hand full of lands. I had an exiled Sol Ring, a bunch of wizards in play, Extraplanar Lens imprinting a Snow-Covered Island. Played High Tide, Palinchron, dropped a Diviner's Wand and he scooped. I was thrilled that the changes I had made worked so well throughout the night. Stroke of Genius over Blue Sun's Zenith was totally worth it.
I'm sure he'll be looking for some payback next week and I await it. I love the competitive environment we have. Makes me a better player through optimization and learning some painful lessons! haha.
Also check out this guy!
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=331214
I like him better than the other new wizard.
He is flat out bloody amazing and instantly in.
+1 for drift of phantasms, another amazing target for tutoring!
UWBSharuum the HegemonBWU
UAzami, Lady of ScrollsU
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestGU
It seemed both games he had moderate starts. Nothing T1, but consistent plays T2 onward. We play with the 30 life variation to help aggro decks, so I was on more of a clock then normal, but the pressure really wasn't there.
Have any of you guys played lately and can post some results?