Also discovered the obscure March of Souls today, which I might add in as a usable board sweeper alongside Austere Command
Why don't you just play Wrath of God instead? The only reason why you would want to play a wrath in the first place would be if your opponent has some hexproof creature you can't otherwise deal with, or if they have more creatures than you (which they still would after March of Souls).
I won't always draw Fiend Hunter when my opponent gets his bombs on the table. Redundancy is key.
Quote from Virtus »
Why don't you just play Wrath of God instead? The only reason why you would want to play a wrath in the first place would be if your opponent has some hexproof creature you can't otherwise deal with, or if they have more creatures than you (which they still would after March of Souls).
Because the first situation is the one I'm anticipating. The deck can have serious trouble with stuff like Uril and Geist of Saint Traft once they get the proper Equipment/Auras. But I may be being paranoid after losing to Uril beatdown recently.
Quote from Gaka »
Why are you running wraths anyways?
See above.
You've got entirely too many non-creatures for a general that suits an aggro plan, although stax is also a viable option.
This is an interesting comment because I've been trying to keep the creature count down to avoid flooding myself with marginally useful creatures instead of useful spells (despite the Thalia tax). I do have a long list of creatures that could potentially go in the deck, but pretty much every non-creature is finely tuned to help the deck out (and are mostly pretty aggressive). Do you have particular suggestions as to what should be cut on the non-creature side? I would very much like the input.
Here's my list of potential creatures for inclusion (no particular order):
I see way too many holdovers from multiplayer here.
I realize I left Mind's Eye on the list by mistake; I've not actually been playing with it, but with Thorn of Amethyst instead. What else on the list do you think is less than effective in 1v1?
So, after the earlier comments, I'm considering making the following changes to the list, increasing the creature count by 5. I'd like to know what you think before I go through with it.
(Also, thoughts on Sword of Feast and Famine v. Sword of Light and Shadow? The recursion on Light and Shadow is incredibly helpful, but so is the discard on Feast and Famine. Untapping my lands is better than life gain, of course. Pro-white can also mess with some of my effects, so I'm leaning towards cutting Light and Shadow and keeping Feast and Famine.)
If you want an answer to hard to deal with big creatures like uril/bombs/emrakul, tariff is your best bet. If you time it well it can work against geist and such as well.
If you want an answer to hard to deal with big creatures like uril/bombs/emrakul, tariff is your best bet. If you time it well it can work against geist and such as well.
Tariff is a little too situational and a little too mana intensive. I think I'm feeling more comfortable now, anyway.
Unrelated: Is Cloistered Youth legal in mono-white? It has no black mana symbols on it, so it seems like it might have only a white color identity. If so, it seems potentially playable.
Tariff is a little too situational and a little too mana intensive. I think I'm feeling more comfortable now, anyway.
Unrelated: Is Cloistered Youth legal in mono-white? It has no black mana symbols on it, so it seems like it might have only a white color identity. If so, it seems potentially playable.
Nope, the flip side has the black color identity, or else it would be a great beatstick for mono white.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
Ended up making most of these changes. Left in Puresteel Paladin and both Swords for more testing, so I left out Mikaeus and Emeria Angel. (I've played with Mikaeus before, and my experiences are mixed. I haven't used Emeria Angel before--she seems great if she activates, but activation is less than certain.)
So, I'm mostly pretty happy with the changes and will be keeping them. One temporary change is dropping Marshal's Anthem for Emeria Angel. This is partially to test out Emeria Angel, see how often I get a token from her (since even one token is probably worth it) and partially because Marshal's Anthem is a little bit disappointing. Six or seven mana to recur just one, usually small, creature plus an anthem effect is pretty weak, and I never have the eight/nine or more mana needed to really make it a powerful card. I considered running Glorious Anthem instead, but decided to keep with the theme of more creatures = better.
Emeria Angel isn't a final choice, though, and I'm open to other suggestions. Would still to hear opinions (especially Gaka, since he was sort of cryptic, but also others') on what specific card choices they like/don't like).
I think Emeria Angel is a terrific choice. It's offering 3 power, evasion, and turns those often-dead late game lands into more critters, which are then pumped further by your anthem effects.
The just-spoiled Angel of Jubilation definitely gets a spot in this deck. A 3/3 flying anthem effect for four with a gratuitous hate ability? Yes, please. Kind of anti-synergistic with Benevolent Bodyguard and Selfless Cathar, I suppose, though. Also the fetchlands, but they're barely worth it here anyway and could be dropped.
Edit:
Not sure where yet, though. She's pretty much strictly better (and much better) than Kongming (other than the bad interaction with the two cards described above, which are both quite replaceable with other solid one-drops, and with the fetchlands, which I'm not even sure are better than Plains in this deck), but Kongming is pretty good himself. I think I'd rather replace something else. I might replace the situational Return to Dust, or perhaps the not-very-aggressive Solemn Simulacrum. Trying to keep the mana curve even, so I'd like to replace another card that costs four mana or more. Maybe Eternal Dragon? I've kept him around because the built-in recursion is in theory very good for recovering from late-game setbacks, but I've never actually cast him, just Plainscycled him.
Not sure where yet, though. She's pretty much strictly better (and much better) than Kongming (other than the bad interaction with the two cards described above, which are both quite replaceable with other solid one-drops, and with the fetchlands, which I'm not even sure are better than Plains in this deck), but Kongming is pretty good himself. I think I'd rather replace something else. I might replace the situational Return to Dust, or perhaps the not-very-aggressive Solemn Simulacrum. Trying to keep the mana curve even, so I'd like to replace another card that costs four mana or more. Maybe Eternal Dragon? I've kept him around because the built-in recursion is in theory very good for recovering from late-game setbacks, but I've never actually cast him, just Plainscycled him.
Sad Robot and Dragon I think would be your best bets for cuts. I used to play Dragon in my Kaalia but I cut him long ago, and he could even tutour my W-duals for me. 5cmc to recur, and then 2 more to cycle, or seven more to cast is fairly uncastable in this style of deck.
Likewise, I'm not too sure on if Sad Robot is aggressive enough for you, again I played him in Kaalia and then cut him because he directly interfered with when I wanted to drop Kaalia(after Kaalia I really have no use for extra lands, ideally).
Kongming, Sleeping Dragon is another Anthem which I wouldn't ever cut as that is what makes WW tick. Return to Dust is always such a blowout card that I would also never cut.
Just stumbled across Light from Within. Seems better for this deck than other pump spell choices, although it's a little on the high end mana wise. However, the deck is starting to feel really tight, so I'm not sure where or how to fit it in. Thoughts?
Also thinking about the new Emancipation Angel, along with the older Kor Skyfisher. Interactions with current cards:
Pianna is fairly disappointing. She's yet another pseudo-anthem, which is helpful. However, unlike her brother, Soltari Champion, she doesn't have any evasion, so in order to get her boost she often has to attack head-on into opposing blockers. Overall, she's the weakest link in this deck's three-mana creatures, and that was enough to see her gone for a new card to test. Whether Silverblade Paladin is as useful as I hope has yet to be see, but I think it will be an improvement on Pianna.
I also thought about cutting War Priest of Thune for Silverblade Paladin. I'm a little bit more comfortable with cutting two-drops since Thalia can always come down turn two, but not comfortable enough.
Mentor of the Meek has also been disappointing. I tend to either have the mana but have enough pump effects that I don't have creatures with power 2 or less coming into play, or I don't have the extra mana to activate him. On the other hand, the times when he does work, he's been a huge boon to the deck. Are there are similar effects that I should be considering?
I just wanted to say first off that this thread has been pretty helpful for me. I'm building Thalia EDH, and it will be my first EDH deck. You guys have covered a lot of bases here and I just wanted to say thanks.
Now, regarding Mentor of the Meek - this is a card that should be a shoe in for any white weenie I would think.. You realize that his ability checks before your anthems are applied right? I just learned this recently from a judge at my LGS. My opponent had Honor of the Pure in play and was allowed to draw cards from casting critters like Mirran Crusader, etc etc..
I just wanted to say first off that this thread has been pretty helpful for me. I'm building Thalia EDH, and it will be my first EDH deck. You guys have covered a lot of bases here and I just wanted to say thanks.
Now, regarding Mentor of the Meek - this is a card that should be a shoe in for any white weenie I would think.. You realize that his ability checks before your anthems are applied right? I just learned this recently from a judge at my LGS. My opponent had Honor of the Pure in play and was allowed to draw cards from casting critters like Mirran Crusader, etc etc..
This can't be right, because, for example, if you control Glorious Anthem, and then cast Murderous Redcap, it will deal three damage to target creature or player(because it entered the battlefield with three power). So Mentor works the same way.
This can't be right, because, for example, if you control Glorious Anthem, and then cast Murderous Redcap, it will deal three damage to target creature or player(because it entered the battlefield with three power). So Mentor works the same way.
Yeah, the judge has to be wrong. The ruling right on Gatherer makes it very clear that Mentor of the Meek checks power after static effects like Honor of the Pure. It would be different if we were looking at something like Cathars' Crusade, since there the +1/+1 counter is triggered (and MotM triggers at the same time). It's still a pretty good card in this deck, since there's so little card advantage in white, but it's kind of situational. Fortunately, losing MotM's ability is not that big a deal if I've already got an Anthem effect or two on the board because at that point I should be about to win. MotM is more useful when it looks like I'm stalling out. It just doesn't seem to save games that often. Then again, not sure one of the less-optimal creatures I'm not running at the moment would be better.
I asked about Hero of Bladehold in the rules section, though, and they seem to think the the HoB tokens come into play as 1/1s and then get boosted to 2/1s (so, if you have an Anthem effect in play, they still trigger MotM as 2/2s before getting boosted into 3/2s). Seems wrong to me, but I'm not a rules guru. Edit: Just realized Battle cry is a triggered ability. That explains it.
Next on the possible chopping block: Endless Horizons. 5 mana is too much just for optimizing draws, and the extra lands beyond 5 are well-nigh useless unless I have Emeria Angel out or can Armageddon. I just don't get to play it much. I don't know, I feel like I'm just twiddling my fingers with a lot of the changes now. Wish I could test the deck against some serious players.
One thing I really like about this deck: Other than a few cards, it's totally el cheapo for a fairly competitive deck. Obviously Ravages of War breaks the bank, but it alone is about a third of the cost of the deck, with much of the rest coming from the helpful-but-not-essential equipment (Swords, Jitte), though I suppose if the equipment were taken out, there would be a significant amount of other shuffling to do. (Stoneforge Mystic, Stonehewer Giant and Puresteel Paladin are only useful with Equipment around, after all.) Some other non-essential cards like Elspeth and Cavern of Souls are also among the high-priced inclusions. The core of the deck is remarkably cheap.
Just noticed you have the snow-covered plains but no real way to take advantage of that. Have you considered Scrying Sheets and even Mouth of Ronom to take advantage? CA on a land, and Mouth is recurrable with your Sun Titan and Crucible of Worlds(if it isn't french-banned, I can't recall).
Just noticed you have the snow-covered plains but no real way to take advantage of that. Have you considered Scrying Sheets and even Mouth of Ronom to take advantage? CA on a land, and Mouth is recurrable with your Sun Titan and Crucible of Worlds(if it isn't french-banned, I can't recall).
Crucible is banned in French (and not very good in this deck, anyway).
I've used Scrying Sheets before, but I found that it was too slow and often a waste of mana. After all, less than a third of the deck is land. Paying effectively three mana for a one-third chance of drawing a marginally useful card is not that great since I need to be using all of my mana on threats in the early game. If I'm running out of gas later in the game, drawing a few more lands isn't going to help much.
I fail to reach 6 mana in many games with this deck. Sun Titan and Memory Jar have game-breaking enough effects that they are worth that much mana. Mouth of Ronom is not that useful, though worth considering.
Now, they would be worth it anyway, except that a lot of my creatures require all white mana, so lands that only produce colorless can be a hindrance in some circumstances. Something to consider, definitely.
I use the Snow lands mainly to take advantage of opposing Extraplanar Lenses from people who intentionally run Snow lands with the Lens (which is most decks that run the Lens, in my experience).
Crucible is banned in French (and not very good in this deck, anyway).
I've used Scrying Sheets before, but I found that it was too slow and often a waste of mana. After all, less than a third of the deck is land. Paying effectively three mana for a one-third chance of drawing a marginally useful card is not that great since I need to be using all of my mana on threats in the early game. If I'm running out of gas later in the game, drawing a few more lands isn't going to help much.
I fail to reach 6 mana in many games with this deck. Sun Titan and Memory Jar have game-breaking enough effects that they are worth that much mana. Mouth of Ronom is not that useful, though worth considering.
Now, they would be worth it anyway, except that a lot of my creatures require all white mana, so lands that only produce colorless can be a hindrance in some circumstances. Something to consider, definitely.
I use the Snow lands mainly to take advantage of opposing Extraplanar Lenses from people who intentionally run Snow lands with the Lens (which is most decks that run the Lens, in my experience).
That's a fair explanation, I can certainly respect that. However for the reasoning behind "sometimes people use snow-covered lands with the Lens"...how often has this actually occurred? How often can WW use double mana without over-extending and getting blown out(aside from Jar/Titan)? Mouth of Ronom, while I agree it is a pretty big mana commitment, it's still colourless removal(for anything that is pro. W), works with Titan if you get to that point of the game, and, from my perspective, seems mildly more useful than Eiganjo Castle.
I mean, it's not gonna make much of a difference either way, snow-covered or not, it's still the same W mana for your critters. Just a thought provoking process I've often wondered.
I'll test it out. The Snow lands are super-situational, I know. I also just like Snow-Covered Plains, haha.
Also considering adding Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond for the chance at a first turn Thalia, which, if the right sort of opponent is on the draw, can win the game right there. Not sure what to replace, though (and they're pretty dead cards after turn one, especially once Thalia comes out).
I'll test it out. The Snow lands are super-situational, I know. I also just like Snow-Covered Plains, haha.
Also considering adding Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond for the chance at a first turn Thalia, which, if the right sort of opponent is on the draw, can win the game right there. Not sure what to replace, though (and they're pretty dead cards after turn one, especially once Thalia comes out).
No worries, snow lands are "something different" and a lot of the time it looks cool, or unique, to do something the norm doesn't usually do, and I know I've fallen victim to it on several occasions(like playing a few snow lands because I don't want to use ugly white-bordered cards on Magic Online).
I'm hesitant to add these kinds of cards to a WW deck. W is not known for it's ability to filter dead cards much, and these seem incredibly weak in 98% of situations. And with your general already on the board, they seem incredibly worthless. Do you want to pay 1 for a Petal or Mox? Because I sure don't.
I would say if you had something like U or even G you'd at least have some way to dig past these speed bumps, but in mono-W I can't imagine it. Now, if there was a W Spirit Guide...I think you'd have an all-star.
Why don't you just play Wrath of God instead? The only reason why you would want to play a wrath in the first place would be if your opponent has some hexproof creature you can't otherwise deal with, or if they have more creatures than you (which they still would after March of Souls).
You've got entirely too many non-creatures for a general that suits an aggro plan, although stax is also a viable option.
I see way too many holdovers from multiplayer here.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I won't always draw Fiend Hunter when my opponent gets his bombs on the table. Redundancy is key.
Because the first situation is the one I'm anticipating. The deck can have serious trouble with stuff like Uril and Geist of Saint Traft once they get the proper Equipment/Auras. But I may be being paranoid after losing to Uril beatdown recently.
See above.
This is an interesting comment because I've been trying to keep the creature count down to avoid flooding myself with marginally useful creatures instead of useful spells (despite the Thalia tax). I do have a long list of creatures that could potentially go in the deck, but pretty much every non-creature is finely tuned to help the deck out (and are mostly pretty aggressive). Do you have particular suggestions as to what should be cut on the non-creature side? I would very much like the input.
Here's my list of potential creatures for inclusion (no particular order):
I realize I left Mind's Eye on the list by mistake; I've not actually been playing with it, but with Thorn of Amethyst instead. What else on the list do you think is less than effective in 1v1?
(Also, thoughts on Sword of Feast and Famine v. Sword of Light and Shadow? The recursion on Light and Shadow is incredibly helpful, but so is the discard on Feast and Famine. Untapping my lands is better than life gain, of course. Pro-white can also mess with some of my effects, so I'm leaning towards cutting Light and Shadow and keeping Feast and Famine.)
- Puresteel Paladin (Not reliable enough with one fewer Equipment and no Steelshaper's Gift... I think? This is the removal I'm most uncertain about. Even drawing one card off of him can be huge.)
- Austere Command
- Thorn of Amethyst
- Sword of Feast and Famine or Sword of Light and Shadow
- Mana Tithe
- Steelshaper’s Gift
+ Kor Aeronaut (missed this before, it should be in the deck before Leonin Skyhunter anyway)
+ Student of Warfare
+ Mikaeus, the Lunarch
+ Kongming, Sleeping Dragon
+ Jötun Grunt
+ Emeria Angel
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
Tariff is a little too situational and a little too mana intensive. I think I'm feeling more comfortable now, anyway.
Unrelated: Is Cloistered Youth legal in mono-white? It has no black mana symbols on it, so it seems like it might have only a white color identity. If so, it seems potentially playable.
Nope, the flip side has the black color identity, or else it would be a great beatstick for mono white.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Ended up making most of these changes. Left in Puresteel Paladin and both Swords for more testing, so I left out Mikaeus and Emeria Angel. (I've played with Mikaeus before, and my experiences are mixed. I haven't used Emeria Angel before--she seems great if she activates, but activation is less than certain.)
Oh well.
Emeria Angel isn't a final choice, though, and I'm open to other suggestions. Would still to hear opinions (especially Gaka, since he was sort of cryptic, but also others') on what specific card choices they like/don't like).
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Edit:
Not sure where yet, though. She's pretty much strictly better (and much better) than Kongming (other than the bad interaction with the two cards described above, which are both quite replaceable with other solid one-drops, and with the fetchlands, which I'm not even sure are better than Plains in this deck), but Kongming is pretty good himself. I think I'd rather replace something else. I might replace the situational Return to Dust, or perhaps the not-very-aggressive Solemn Simulacrum. Trying to keep the mana curve even, so I'd like to replace another card that costs four mana or more. Maybe Eternal Dragon? I've kept him around because the built-in recursion is in theory very good for recovering from late-game setbacks, but I've never actually cast him, just Plainscycled him.
Yes, Angel of Jubilation seems absolutely incredible here.
Sad Robot and Dragon I think would be your best bets for cuts. I used to play Dragon in my Kaalia but I cut him long ago, and he could even tutour my W-duals for me. 5cmc to recur, and then 2 more to cycle, or seven more to cast is fairly uncastable in this style of deck.
Likewise, I'm not too sure on if Sad Robot is aggressive enough for you, again I played him in Kaalia and then cut him because he directly interfered with when I wanted to drop Kaalia(after Kaalia I really have no use for extra lands, ideally).
Kongming, Sleeping Dragon is another Anthem which I wouldn't ever cut as that is what makes WW tick. Return to Dust is always such a blowout card that I would also never cut.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
- Eternal Dragon
- Solemn Simulacrum
+ Angel of Jubilation (once it's released; will stick with SS until then)
+ Flickerwisp
Also took out the Fetches for four more Plains.
Not sure if I should replace Benevolent Bodyguard and Selfless Cathar, and with what. Might put the 2/1 for W pair (Elite Vanguard and Savannah Lions) back in, although utility cards might be useful, too.
Also thinking about the new Emancipation Angel, along with the older Kor Skyfisher. Interactions with current cards:
Champion of the Parish: Recurs other Humans to make him bigger. On the other hand, do not want to bounce him
Jötun Grunt: Resets his age counters so I don't have to sac him
Kor Aeronaut: Can reuse his Kicker if I need the extra flying
Leonin Relic-Warder: Can switch what he's removing
Stoneforge Mystic: More equipment tutoring, very powerful
War Priest of Thune: More enchantment hate
Fiend Hunter: Like Relic-Warder, can switch what he's removing
Mentor of the Meek: More draw if I return weenies
Stonecloaker: More graveyard hate and combat tricks, but not a very useful interaction
Dust Elemental: Not much benefit, really
Ranger of Eos: More weenie tutoring, powerful
Not really sure those, mostly pretty mediocre, interactions are worth it. More thoughts?
Pianna is fairly disappointing. She's yet another pseudo-anthem, which is helpful. However, unlike her brother, Soltari Champion, she doesn't have any evasion, so in order to get her boost she often has to attack head-on into opposing blockers. Overall, she's the weakest link in this deck's three-mana creatures, and that was enough to see her gone for a new card to test. Whether Silverblade Paladin is as useful as I hope has yet to be see, but I think it will be an improvement on Pianna.
I also thought about cutting War Priest of Thune for Silverblade Paladin. I'm a little bit more comfortable with cutting two-drops since Thalia can always come down turn two, but not comfortable enough.
I just wanted to say first off that this thread has been pretty helpful for me. I'm building Thalia EDH, and it will be my first EDH deck. You guys have covered a lot of bases here and I just wanted to say thanks.
Now, regarding Mentor of the Meek - this is a card that should be a shoe in for any white weenie I would think.. You realize that his ability checks before your anthems are applied right? I just learned this recently from a judge at my LGS. My opponent had Honor of the Pure in play and was allowed to draw cards from casting critters like Mirran Crusader, etc etc..
Draft My Cube!
This can't be right, because, for example, if you control Glorious Anthem, and then cast Murderous Redcap, it will deal three damage to target creature or player(because it entered the battlefield with three power). So Mentor works the same way.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Yeah, the judge has to be wrong. The ruling right on Gatherer makes it very clear that Mentor of the Meek checks power after static effects like Honor of the Pure. It would be different if we were looking at something like Cathars' Crusade, since there the +1/+1 counter is triggered (and MotM triggers at the same time). It's still a pretty good card in this deck, since there's so little card advantage in white, but it's kind of situational. Fortunately, losing MotM's ability is not that big a deal if I've already got an Anthem effect or two on the board because at that point I should be about to win. MotM is more useful when it looks like I'm stalling out. It just doesn't seem to save games that often. Then again, not sure one of the less-optimal creatures I'm not running at the moment would be better.
I asked about Hero of Bladehold in the rules section, though, and they seem to think the the HoB tokens come into play as 1/1s and then get boosted to 2/1s (so, if you have an Anthem effect in play, they still trigger MotM as 2/2s before getting boosted into 3/2s). Seems wrong to me, but I'm not a rules guru. Edit: Just realized Battle cry is a triggered ability. That explains it.
Next on the possible chopping block: Endless Horizons. 5 mana is too much just for optimizing draws, and the extra lands beyond 5 are well-nigh useless unless I have Emeria Angel out or can Armageddon. I just don't get to play it much. I don't know, I feel like I'm just twiddling my fingers with a lot of the changes now. Wish I could test the deck against some serious players.
One thing I really like about this deck: Other than a few cards, it's totally el cheapo for a fairly competitive deck. Obviously Ravages of War breaks the bank, but it alone is about a third of the cost of the deck, with much of the rest coming from the helpful-but-not-essential equipment (Swords, Jitte), though I suppose if the equipment were taken out, there would be a significant amount of other shuffling to do. (Stoneforge Mystic, Stonehewer Giant and Puresteel Paladin are only useful with Equipment around, after all.) Some other non-essential cards like Elspeth and Cavern of Souls are also among the high-priced inclusions. The core of the deck is remarkably cheap.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Crucible is banned in French (and not very good in this deck, anyway).
I've used Scrying Sheets before, but I found that it was too slow and often a waste of mana. After all, less than a third of the deck is land. Paying effectively three mana for a one-third chance of drawing a marginally useful card is not that great since I need to be using all of my mana on threats in the early game. If I'm running out of gas later in the game, drawing a few more lands isn't going to help much.
I fail to reach 6 mana in many games with this deck. Sun Titan and Memory Jar have game-breaking enough effects that they are worth that much mana. Mouth of Ronom is not that useful, though worth considering.
Now, they would be worth it anyway, except that a lot of my creatures require all white mana, so lands that only produce colorless can be a hindrance in some circumstances. Something to consider, definitely.
I use the Snow lands mainly to take advantage of opposing Extraplanar Lenses from people who intentionally run Snow lands with the Lens (which is most decks that run the Lens, in my experience).
That's a fair explanation, I can certainly respect that. However for the reasoning behind "sometimes people use snow-covered lands with the Lens"...how often has this actually occurred? How often can WW use double mana without over-extending and getting blown out(aside from Jar/Titan)? Mouth of Ronom, while I agree it is a pretty big mana commitment, it's still colourless removal(for anything that is pro. W), works with Titan if you get to that point of the game, and, from my perspective, seems mildly more useful than Eiganjo Castle.
I mean, it's not gonna make much of a difference either way, snow-covered or not, it's still the same W mana for your critters. Just a thought provoking process I've often wondered.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Also considering adding Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond for the chance at a first turn Thalia, which, if the right sort of opponent is on the draw, can win the game right there. Not sure what to replace, though (and they're pretty dead cards after turn one, especially once Thalia comes out).
Also considering adding Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond for the chance at a first turn Thalia, which, if the right sort of opponent is on the draw, can win the game right there. Not sure what to replace, though (and they're pretty dead cards after turn one, especially once Thalia comes out).
No worries, snow lands are "something different" and a lot of the time it looks cool, or unique, to do something the norm doesn't usually do, and I know I've fallen victim to it on several occasions(like playing a few snow lands because I don't want to use ugly white-bordered cards on Magic Online).
I'm hesitant to add these kinds of cards to a WW deck. W is not known for it's ability to filter dead cards much, and these seem incredibly weak in 98% of situations. And with your general already on the board, they seem incredibly worthless. Do you want to pay 1 for a Petal or Mox? Because I sure don't.
I would say if you had something like U or even G you'd at least have some way to dig past these speed bumps, but in mono-W I can't imagine it. Now, if there was a W Spirit Guide...I think you'd have an all-star.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.