I think it's fair to point out as well that Scryb Ranger very well may be game breaking tech against Animar solely because of its flashability preventing an on the spot eldrazi-fueled kill. In that matchup, your only out is Elesh Norn in conjunction with a borderline stacked deck, and a lot of hoping/praying that your opponent's running the slow plan. However, from what I can tell, I'm the sole creator of eldrazi combo animar, and there probably aren't many adaptors simply from poor documentation of play strategy. Maybe consider running wrath as a follow up?
On a side note, Gaea's Cradle is beyond broken. Consider jamming some tutors? Crop Rotation, Sylvan Scrying, Expedition Map. Maybe even Maze of Ith as a situational tutor target.
Also, your argument against Birds, Llanowar, Fyndhorn and Pilgrem just isn't strong. If your opponent opts to use a spot removal spell, by all means let them proceed. But, being as removal in EDH generally can hit anything, and because removal is almost always few and far, I really doubt anyone would squander it.
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker... isn't she just always more relavent than Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile?
Michiko and Brigid are totally different cards, so I'm not sure you'd run one over the other. I run brigid because my deck is more aggressive/focused on the combat step.
I tried scryb ranger for a while - it was okay, but the body was so underwhelming that it was a bit disappointing. There's no doubting his synergy in the deck.
I've run crop rotation, maze of ith, and kor haven before. They were all okay, but not special. Crop rotation was my favorite, but sometimes it was just very useless, and the deck couldn't always afford that.
I play birds and pilgrim. Llanowar and fyndhotn were fine, but I'm not sure the deck needs that many one drop accelerants, and the fact that they tap for green was super awkward a lot of the time. Also, don't play arbor elf. I've gone command tower arbor elf go before, and it's reason enough for me to never play the card again.
"Idllyic Tutor in place of Academy Rector. I've played them both very extensively, and I honestly couldn't tell you which is better."
If both are amazing, why not run both?
Nah, that makes too much sense!
But seriously, finding space is difficult, especially as more and more cards keep proving themselves awesome. If anything, my best option is probably to cut Sterling Grove for Idyllic Tutor, sense they're both three mana (sort of.. Grove obviously works better vs. control) and Tutor isn't card disadvantage. I'll consider it! I think I've been fairly consistent at getting some manner of enchantment or the tutor for it in nearly all of my games, so I think 3 is the magic number (Rector, Enlightened, and either Grove or Idyllic).
Or maybe 4 couldn't hurt? I win a LOT of games with Survival -> Loyal Retainers ->Norn/Iona. I think I win more games with that than by beating down with my army, just because most of my guys are likely to have been answered and, by the time I do the other shenanigans, my opponent is out of answers. It's a beautiful thing.
As more opponents start to recognize my deck, they might start to get more selective with what they remove. Which is okay! Because my guys can beat face just fine if they're holding out to answer Survival or Norn.
I think it's fair to point out as well that Scryb Ranger very well may be game breaking tech against Animar solely because of its flashability preventing an on the spot eldrazi-fueled kill. In that matchup, your only out is Elesh Norn in conjunction with a borderline stacked deck, and a lot of hoping/praying that your opponent's running the slow plan. However, from what I can tell, I'm the sole creator of eldrazi combo animar, and there probably aren't many adaptors simply from poor documentation of play strategy. Maybe consider running wrath as a follow up?
The more control I add (while taking out creatures), the more Wrath looks sexier to me. Especially considering that I still win a ton of games through locking down the game via Norn or Iona, I might be best off with this route. Maybe! I obviously wouldn't recommend it for Merdock's build, though. If anything, he could benefit from MORE creatures, and creatures like Savannah Lions. Taking the best from Isamaru and adding the best of green could absolutely be a top-tier deck, I think.
On a side note, Gaea's Cradle is beyond broken. Consider jamming some tutors? Crop Rotation, Sylvan Scrying, Expedition Map. Maybe even Maze of Ith as a situational tutor target.
Been there, done that. Most of my opponents aren't as weird as you and are ACTUALLY running removal for my creatures, so Cradle often isn't worth much most of the time or isn't ramping me very far, and it's not like I'm playing Eldrazi like some people I know. =P
Also, your argument against Birds, Llanowar, Fyndhorn and Pilgrem just isn't strong. If your opponent opts to use a spot removal spell, by all means let them proceed. But, being as removal in EDH generally can hit anything, and because removal is almost always few and far, I really doubt anyone would squander it.
It's probably more effective for my opponents to remove my one drop rampers than it is against most decks by virtue of my deck really wanting to get to a high mana area and thus setting me back long enough to do lethal to me. For Merdock? I agree with you, and I think having these one drops as beaters, rampers, and bait will all be a winning part of the all-in aggro strategy.
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker... isn't she just always more relavent than Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile?
Against the decks I really need Michiko, I think she's just too slow, and I'll be deep in the red by the time she resolves (so what's saccing a few lands to kill me?). Maybe I just didn't give her enough of a chance, but I think I'm better off trying to fight back in the combat step, or shutting down combat entirely via Peacekeeper, who honestly probably will get cut again because I'm fickle like that.
Been there, done that. Most of my opponents aren't as weird as you and are ACTUALLY running removal for my creatures, so Cradle often isn't worth much most of the time or isn't ramping me very far, and it's not like I'm playing Eldrazi like some people I know. =P
Well lets be fair here, I run all kinds of removal! I cast Ulamog at least in 85% of my games, sometimes even multiple times! Let us not neglect to count pesudo-removal -- Man-O-War, Phyrexian Metamorph, Phantasmal Image and Gilded Drake. That's like infinite removal! Some people like playing stuff like Dismember to kill something for 1.... I like playing something like Ulamog to kill something for none ;D
You should consider adding in a sideboard. I believe the rule is 10 cards no? Trinisphere is probably the single best card against my deck imo.
Ew ew ew! No sideboards for me. Neither my local group nor the Cockatrice players approve, and local venues have abolished the sideboard for 1v1 tourneys (when that was a thing, many months ago), due to degenerate jerks like me loading their decks with color hate. I even wrote an article about why sideboards are a terrible thing in this format on CommanderCast. =P
Dropped Phyrexian Revoker because it's basically giving me the same results as it's giving Riley and threw back in Thousand-Year Elixir in its place. Elixir is just such a sweet card and I've never been dissapointed when its hit the field.
I also cut Crop Rotation and Tithe. Crop Rotation didn't make the cut because it always felt like such a bad move when I played it even if I grabbed Cradle with it, I was never happy to see it early game and it was a horrible topdeck when I already had Cradle. Tithe was cut because with me cutting Crop Rotation as well it allowed me to just throw in two extra lands. I'd rather consistently make land drops every game then only do it when I draw Tithe. This deck needs to make land drops to win so I don't see how you can't run at least thirty eight too thirty nine lands.
Edit: I'm also really on the fence about Brigid. I don't run into many super fast aggro decks in my group and though she's super awesome alongside Elesh Norn I don't know if that's enough. Gonna splurge for a Loyal Retainers and replace Brigid with it.
Just for curiousity, what are your thoughts on Ruel? The deck seems to have quite a few useful 1 dorks and if anything, serves as a decent mulldrifter.
First off: I've replaced Priest of Titania with Lotus Cobra, as I don't have nearly the amount of elves that I once did (and other elves are likely to be killed/countered). Also, Priest is "slower" and not as good of a beater (and won't get me out of a possible Contamination lock as effectively, if at all).
Interesting suggestion on Anurid (I especially like his size for his cost), but I think I'll have to pass... for now.
I'll have to pass on Grimoire, too. The setup is far too slow, and giving my opponents more chances to draw into Stifle or Trickbind or even artifact removal is not ideal to me. Also, because most of my removal is of the "exile" variety, I won't really be getting any alternate use out of it, making Grimoire a bit too narrow and too slow.
Should Survival of the Fittest ever become banned, I'll look to these two options first. But right now, the way I use Survival and the combo is that I try to do it all at once to avoid giving my opponent any chances to draw into answers. Also, I seem to be pretty consistent with the combo, so I don't think I should dedicate any additional slots to it when mid-range beatdown is proving to be a very effective "alternate" win.
Riley, can you remind me again why you aren't running Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker? I feel as if you dismissed her too soon.
It wouldn't be the first time! I really do want to try out Michiko again, but would would I take out?
But yeah, that she was lackluster against Lyzolda in a few games is probably too quick of a dismissal, because she'd probably be pretty rockin' vs. Sygg and Edric... but I already feel like my matchup vs. those decks is pretty decent. If any card, I'd take out Michiko for Peacekeeper, but I think Peacekeeper is just the better of the two.
(Yes, Michko is more tutorable, but if I'm able to play Sisay unimpeded then I've probably already won.)
Just for curiousity, what are your thoughts on Ruel? The deck seems to have quite a few useful 1 dorks and if anything, serves as a decent mulldrifter.
Hmm.. possibly! Getting out Mother of Runes and/or Sylvan Safekeeper is a virtual Gifts Ungiven when it comes to protecting my game-ending legends (or just making sure Sisay doesn't eat removal). Alternately, nabbing mana dorks is actually superbly useful around the point where I'd be able to play ROE when I need to get to 7+ mana (when I otherwise can't cheat out my Legends). I think she deserves a spot.
I ran Null Rod for a long while, but that was in "ye olden days" where every deck had either one, two, or all three of Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, and Mana Vault, and most of those decks were running Signets, Relics, and other manafacts to try to ramp to a million mana for big combos. But because of the sheer redundancy of these manafacts in my opponent's decks, I could never get out Null Rod quickly enough for it to shut down their degenerate ramp.
...but that's not why I put it in.
In fact, I tested Null Rod because certain decks could blow me out with Jitte and Swords, and I wanted to make sure they never had the chance to even use these things. At that time, I was all-in combo and wasn't running Jitte or Swords (I know! crazy times), so it made sense to try and shut down something that was becoming more common, Swords and Jitte use.
These days, I use the hell out of Jitte for all sorts of nefarious purposes, and Sword of Fire and Ice steals games for me, too. I don't think there's room in the tooblox to run Stony Silence or Null Rod, even though they do have some effect on pretty much every deck. It's just that.. they also has an effect on me, and I'd rather play the part of sniper than lockdown.
I'd especially not recommend it for the aggro build, either, as that wants to use even more artifacts. Also the fact that is doesn't do anything against the really big offenders of Stax/Tangle Wire is a huge turn-off.
I faced off against a 5-color control deck that ran zero creatures and just removed what it wanted and played lots of Planeswalkers and managed an early Humility on me two games in a row. No, I don't believe I'll be running into many decks like that (or that it would ever constitute a top tier deck that I should prepare for), but it did prompt me to run Oblivion Ring because it's just so much more diverse and also fetchable (and **** Planeswalkers). I was probably silly to take it out in the first place.
I'd endorse Dm225's list as an optimal multiplayer build (list found in this post), but for the "official rules," remember that you can sneak in Sol Ring, Mana Vault, and Mana Crypt, all of which are pretty cool guys.
Speaking of effects granting multiple mana: I want to test out Havenwood Battleground and Ruins of Trokair, so I will. I've never played with these cards, but I imagine that they'd be really useful in getting to critical Elesh Norn mana quicker. Also, I'm often holding back early plays to do control-like things, so in my build it shouldn't be a huge kick in the teeth to my development to drop these lands on turn 2. We shall see!
I decided to test out Stony Silence and Ranger of Eos even though I only have four targets for him (albeit four awesome targets). I want to find one more target for him and finally removing Phyrexian Revoker for it. Any suggestions?
Current list for jaykay asking about multiplayer (also always updated link in my signature).
Converting to multiplayer means a few things need to be done. One, you need to drop those one mana ramp dirks in exchange for slower yet less flashy two mana ramp spells. This allows you to fly more under the radar and allows for a quicker recovery after a wrath. Two, you need to run more Legendary creatures so you can play the "good guy" if need be. Three, aggro control goes out the window so no swords and in my opinion no Jitte. Let me know if you have any questions I'm doing this from my phone so this is detailed as I'm gonna get for now.
I'm not so sure, at least not for my build. I run a combo build of Sisay and a pure aggro card has no place in my list. Also I'm not sure even Riley would consider him even though he runs his more on the aggro side. He just doesn't do enough to justify a spot.
I have a little bit to add to the thread. I don't have too much time to share my thoughts but here they go anyway
Riley when making room for cards I wouldn't cut cards that are part of the core. For example Elixar
is exactly what you want. It makes it so that Sissay activates a turn earlier which means it functions
a little better than a mana dork. If your going to make Sissay function as a midrange deck then remember
you only play your general when your trying to corner your opponent. Playing Sissay to Die is only
good vs very Aggressive decks.
Going along with this philopshy you are then able to change the "core" of
the deck around. For example Playing Sissay in this fashion makes You more dependent on sissay to
stabilize the game However, playing a protected sissay as you've noticed makes this dependance possible.
Essantially my point is Reveillark is not a strong when sissay is played in this fashion. I believe that
Your Mid game is Sissay. Reveilark is only good late late... late game! Which means his slot is the
slot of sun titan but you only need one of them. Also the old revilark survival combo is not outdated
for the loyal retainers combo.
That being said you Cut phyrexian revoker which may or may not be optimal, However going along the same
lines its safe to cut Aven Mindcensor. He essantially is trying to fufill Sissays role in being a mid game
card that attempts to push a situation in your way. If your opponent is tutoring that means your able to
tutor with sissay, and if you can't you've pretty much lost the game already.
I also think that Peacekeeper is garbage even if you can protect him. If you're able to get a peacekeeper
to chill out on the board safelly then my friend you've already won.
So the goal just as it was when designing godo is to make sure that you don't have cards that
take your generals job away from him. Which is why for the same reason that I don't have any cards 6cc
or higher in godo. Because At that point I'm going to be getting what I need with godo, and keep replaying
him to dig for answers.
What I've found successfully in godo is running acceleration, Ways to deal With early tempo plays/aggresion,
and provide some disruption myself. So in godo it's my mana stones, and my orcish artillery which only get
better late game. Sissay I believe can benefit from the same way. We've already established that mana
dorks are crucial in out manaing a opponent and late game Sissay turns those dorks into a Win condition
( Via elsh norn) the same way godo does with basilisk collar.
That being said you need to make sure you cover your bases with your legends. For starts against I would
suggest making a chart highlighting what must be done in each matchup ( and believe me edh you need to
plan for everything) on what you need to get with sissay to stablize and swing the game in your favour.
making cuts is now even easier because now your able to see that Mirror Entity is simply trying to do
what Elsh norn does but worse. You never need to pump your dorks early game and the fact he combos
with Harmonic Sliver is cute but Best.
This slot can be Swift Foot boots which I do not think should ever
be cut from the build. It's protection and lets you play a tempo game your opponent which means if you
play right you will be able to punish the other player (Essantially why EDH is so skill intensive).
That Beings said Cards like Scrb Ranger I really do enjoy. They allow you to have a early drop vs U/X
aggressive decks and allows you to play games with your opponent during combat which is essantially
how you gain card advantage vs these decks.
Also I do not see how you can ever cut Skullclamp. Sure sometimes you don't want to kill your manadorks
but the card is too good not to run. G/W's problem is skullclamp and cutting a card that is
relatively easy to tutor for is plain wrong. I cut it from godo for awhile since I don't run
any creatures but like planeswalkers skullclamp creates a minigame that forces a opponent
to play around for the rest of the game. However this does not mean Mentor of the meek is as insane.
I could see mentor being good, but he doesn't chain as well as clamp does. Mentor provides
a relatively low amount of advatange compared to his cost. Skullclamp also helps fight tangle wire
which is important to consider.
I hope this helps you find the right creatures/spells that get invited to sisay's pool party. Theres a few more cards I can see being cut but it
pains me to see you cut cards that are critical for sissay's success. Also play City of Traitors
that card is insane when played right and it can easily replace Homeward path which is cute at best.
Overall I see some easy cuts being
Reveillark/ Karmic Guide (Eternal WItness does there job better)
Mirror Entity
Peacekeeper
Aven Mindcensor
And I personally hate Bloom tender.
I also think that Gelid Shackles is 100% better then Tariff. Tarrif is garbage. It's card disadvantage
and it has very narrow applications.
PS: Gideon's Lawkeeper and his midget brother may be very good in this deck. I would definatly cut Path and maybe even the shackles
for these fellows. They're cheap and they provide disruption, stop zur in their trap and are cool as hell.
Theirs a reason I've been playing the awful card that is Leonin Bolas in Godo for awhile now.
PSs: Narg's right play gavony township.
EDIT: Why do You play Great stable Stag over Thrun?
Okay, mostly everything! I'm still testing Tariff (though it's tested really well so far because OH GOD what do I do against Animar and Geist?!?) and Karmic Guide has done major work for me more than its share of times, but I think I'd be okay with cutting the rest and adding the cards you've suggested in their place.
On Mirror Entity: I have this awesome memory of actually resolving it against a MUC deck in a 1v1 tournament and winning super fast and making the association that "Mirror Entity is the mono blue control killer!!!" I'm glad to get some outside perspective on his place in this deck, because the truth is: LOTS OF CREATURES (and not just one special creature) is the MUC killer. I did some Clique matches earlier and won both games quite handily. It didn't matter what I resolved; I just had too many threats. Mirror Entity didn't factor into that victory, and he hasn't factored into ANY victories in my time on Cockatrice thus far. He's coming out.
Reveillark has also been (almost entirely) not used since my joining Cockatrice. Y'all know I have a huge.. soft spot for combo, but I'm not even running all the pieces that make Reviellark relevant. There was one game that I topdecked him and he carried a Jitte to my come-from-behind victory, but that could have been any flying creature. Reveillark will also come out.
My few matches vs. Lyzolda freaked me out, but I think my opponent had some pretty god-like hands and mine were kinda meh, in sobering hindsight. Trying to shoe-horn in Peacekeeper and Michiko Konda both were bad ideas, I think. I'd rather the two of them were the tap creatures, who can also become huge badass 3/3s in the end-game. Hunter, I love you.
The funny thing with Mindcensor is that I keep thinking "I'm gonna Strip Mine someone with him, oh man oh boy!" but literally BOTH times I've attempted this against two different opponents, my opponent had instant speed answers in response. Both times, I had to hold back a turn 3 play to try and attempt this cute trick that didn't work. He's otherwise just an overcosted flier who makes little impact against decks not being piloted by Evergreen. I think I can get behind cutting him, too.
My paranoia about theft effects is well-founded, but I rarely find myself exposed just because I play much more carefully than I did before. And really, all I have to worry about are Treachery, Gilded Drake, Sower of Temptation, and Vedalken Shackles, and all of those are easily answerable with the exception of Gilded Drake, but I'm certainly not opposed to using removal on my own creatures in desperate times. I think I'll definitely test out Gavony Township in place of Homeward Path.
If I can find the space, I'll put in Gelid Shackles.
I've added Ranger of Eos, and if Elixir is going back in then I think I should give Mikaeus a shot, too. I'm still not a fan of Swiftfoot, though. If I have the space, maybe I'll give Skullclamp another go, too.
Crystal Vein has been good enough to me. Not sure I'm in need of City of Traitors. I can do precious little with colorless mana in this deck. I had Spreading Seas played against me on turn 2 once and I seriously considered scooping.
Sable Stag has evasion, and has definitely won me games due to this. Thrun has inevitability, though. I dunno, I should probably just be playing both. I like that Stag comes down on turn 3 and doesn't require me to keep mana open in case of wrath? /shrug
Yeah, I think I can do away with Path to Exile. Oftentimes, I have WAY too much creature removal, most of which is obviously dead-weight against Animar and Geist. Moar threats is teh way to go!1!!!
Thank you so much for the shake-up, Hunter. Much appreciated. =)
FAKE EDIT: Well crap, somehow my list in the OP ended up with 101 cards, so I dropped Thrun from the latest adds.
REAL EDIT: Ah, I knew I was forgetting something! I've taken out Mindcensor for the time being, and re-upped the lands from 36 back to 37. Of the 4 games I played today, HALF of them resulted in me being several land-screwed, even after aggressive mulliganing just to get a second land. Even though my curve keeps lowering, I still have to hit more than 2 land drops to do anything. -_-
Dropped Flagstones of Trokair and Eiganjo Castle (never ever used the ability) for basics. Bad Moon inspired me.
It's possible that I COULD get away with 36 lands if I'm running Land Tax. Maybe I ought to try that... after goldfishing a half-dozen games with 36, I'm able to get to 4-5 mana in the opening 4-5 turns every time with minimal mulligans, and that's without the Land Tax. Those two games against Hunter were just embarrassing. -_-
Haha, well... Mindcensor could blow out Animar, Iname, Godo, Zur, and Scion (does anyone play Scion anymore?), but he's just so darn squishy, and doesn't seem to faze my opponents. If I end up missing him or regularly losing to all these decks and thinking "Something seems to be missing!", then he'll go back in. I'm still not super sold on Elixir, so there's a 3-drop spot that Mindcensor is likely to go in for.
On a side note, Gaea's Cradle is beyond broken. Consider jamming some tutors? Crop Rotation, Sylvan Scrying, Expedition Map. Maybe even Maze of Ith as a situational tutor target.
Also, your argument against Birds, Llanowar, Fyndhorn and Pilgrem just isn't strong. If your opponent opts to use a spot removal spell, by all means let them proceed. But, being as removal in EDH generally can hit anything, and because removal is almost always few and far, I really doubt anyone would squander it.
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker... isn't she just always more relavent than Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile?
I tried scryb ranger for a while - it was okay, but the body was so underwhelming that it was a bit disappointing. There's no doubting his synergy in the deck.
I've run crop rotation, maze of ith, and kor haven before. They were all okay, but not special. Crop rotation was my favorite, but sometimes it was just very useless, and the deck couldn't always afford that.
I play birds and pilgrim. Llanowar and fyndhotn were fine, but I'm not sure the deck needs that many one drop accelerants, and the fact that they tap for green was super awkward a lot of the time. Also, don't play arbor elf. I've gone command tower arbor elf go before, and it's reason enough for me to never play the card again.
Nah, that makes too much sense!
But seriously, finding space is difficult, especially as more and more cards keep proving themselves awesome. If anything, my best option is probably to cut Sterling Grove for Idyllic Tutor, sense they're both three mana (sort of.. Grove obviously works better vs. control) and Tutor isn't card disadvantage. I'll consider it! I think I've been fairly consistent at getting some manner of enchantment or the tutor for it in nearly all of my games, so I think 3 is the magic number (Rector, Enlightened, and either Grove or Idyllic).
Or maybe 4 couldn't hurt? I win a LOT of games with Survival -> Loyal Retainers ->Norn/Iona. I think I win more games with that than by beating down with my army, just because most of my guys are likely to have been answered and, by the time I do the other shenanigans, my opponent is out of answers. It's a beautiful thing.
As more opponents start to recognize my deck, they might start to get more selective with what they remove. Which is okay! Because my guys can beat face just fine if they're holding out to answer Survival or Norn.
The more control I add (while taking out creatures), the more Wrath looks sexier to me. Especially considering that I still win a ton of games through locking down the game via Norn or Iona, I might be best off with this route. Maybe! I obviously wouldn't recommend it for Merdock's build, though. If anything, he could benefit from MORE creatures, and creatures like Savannah Lions. Taking the best from Isamaru and adding the best of green could absolutely be a top-tier deck, I think.
Been there, done that. Most of my opponents aren't as weird as you and are ACTUALLY running removal for my creatures, so Cradle often isn't worth much most of the time or isn't ramping me very far, and it's not like I'm playing Eldrazi like some people I know. =P
It's probably more effective for my opponents to remove my one drop rampers than it is against most decks by virtue of my deck really wanting to get to a high mana area and thus setting me back long enough to do lethal to me. For Merdock? I agree with you, and I think having these one drops as beaters, rampers, and bait will all be a winning part of the all-in aggro strategy.
Against the decks I really need Michiko, I think she's just too slow, and I'll be deep in the red by the time she resolves (so what's saccing a few lands to kill me?). Maybe I just didn't give her enough of a chance, but I think I'm better off trying to fight back in the combat step, or shutting down combat entirely via Peacekeeper, who honestly probably will get cut again because I'm fickle like that.
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Well lets be fair here, I run all kinds of removal! I cast Ulamog at least in 85% of my games, sometimes even multiple times! Let us not neglect to count pesudo-removal -- Man-O-War, Phyrexian Metamorph, Phantasmal Image and Gilded Drake. That's like infinite removal! Some people like playing stuff like Dismember to kill something for 1.... I like playing something like Ulamog to kill something for none ;D
You should consider adding in a sideboard. I believe the rule is 10 cards no? Trinisphere is probably the single best card against my deck imo.
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Dropped Phyrexian Revoker because it's basically giving me the same results as it's giving Riley and threw back in Thousand-Year Elixir in its place. Elixir is just such a sweet card and I've never been dissapointed when its hit the field.
I also cut Crop Rotation and Tithe. Crop Rotation didn't make the cut because it always felt like such a bad move when I played it even if I grabbed Cradle with it, I was never happy to see it early game and it was a horrible topdeck when I already had Cradle. Tithe was cut because with me cutting Crop Rotation as well it allowed me to just throw in two extra lands. I'd rather consistently make land drops every game then only do it when I draw Tithe. This deck needs to make land drops to win so I don't see how you can't run at least thirty eight too thirty nine lands.
Edit: I'm also really on the fence about Brigid. I don't run into many super fast aggro decks in my group and though she's super awesome alongside Elesh Norn I don't know if that's enough. Gonna splurge for a Loyal Retainers and replace Brigid with it.
Here's my current list for reference;
1 Captain Sisay
Artifact
1 Expedition Map
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
Creature
1 Acidic Slime
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Benevolent Bodyguard
1 Devoted Caretaker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Karmic Guide
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Mirror Entity
1 Mother of Runes
1 Peacekeeper
1 Primeval Titan
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reveillark
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sun Titan
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Glissa Sunseeker
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Myojin of Life's Web
1 Reya Dawnbringer
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
Enchantment
1 Aura Shards
1 Steely Resolve
1 Sterling Grove
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
Instant
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Nature's Claim
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Worldly Tutor
Sorcery
1 Farseek
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Into the North
1 Nature's Lore
1 Rampant Growth
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Three Visits
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Brushland
1 Command Tower
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Flooded Strand
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Marsh Flats
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Savannah
12 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Temple Garden
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Wooded Foothills
Experimental Kraj
Interesting suggestion on Anurid (I especially like his size for his cost), but I think I'll have to pass... for now.
I'll have to pass on Grimoire, too. The setup is far too slow, and giving my opponents more chances to draw into Stifle or Trickbind or even artifact removal is not ideal to me. Also, because most of my removal is of the "exile" variety, I won't really be getting any alternate use out of it, making Grimoire a bit too narrow and too slow.
Should Survival of the Fittest ever become banned, I'll look to these two options first. But right now, the way I use Survival and the combo is that I try to do it all at once to avoid giving my opponent any chances to draw into answers. Also, I seem to be pretty consistent with the combo, so I don't think I should dedicate any additional slots to it when mid-range beatdown is proving to be a very effective "alternate" win.
It wouldn't be the first time! I really do want to try out Michiko again, but would would I take out?
But yeah, that she was lackluster against Lyzolda in a few games is probably too quick of a dismissal, because she'd probably be pretty rockin' vs. Sygg and Edric... but I already feel like my matchup vs. those decks is pretty decent. If any card, I'd take out Michiko for Peacekeeper, but I think Peacekeeper is just the better of the two.
(Yes, Michko is more tutorable, but if I'm able to play Sisay unimpeded then I've probably already won.)
Hmm.. possibly! Getting out Mother of Runes and/or Sylvan Safekeeper is a virtual Gifts Ungiven when it comes to protecting my game-ending legends (or just making sure Sisay doesn't eat removal). Alternately, nabbing mana dorks is actually superbly useful around the point where I'd be able to play ROE when I need to get to 7+ mana (when I otherwise can't cheat out my Legends). I think she deserves a spot.
Now, to find room...
Thanks for the suggestions, all. =)
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
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Experimental Kraj
...but that's not why I put it in.
In fact, I tested Null Rod because certain decks could blow me out with Jitte and Swords, and I wanted to make sure they never had the chance to even use these things. At that time, I was all-in combo and wasn't running Jitte or Swords (I know! crazy times), so it made sense to try and shut down something that was becoming more common, Swords and Jitte use.
These days, I use the hell out of Jitte for all sorts of nefarious purposes, and Sword of Fire and Ice steals games for me, too. I don't think there's room in the tooblox to run Stony Silence or Null Rod, even though they do have some effect on pretty much every deck. It's just that.. they also has an effect on me, and I'd rather play the part of sniper than lockdown.
I'd especially not recommend it for the aggro build, either, as that wants to use even more artifacts. Also the fact that is doesn't do anything against the really big offenders of Stax/Tangle Wire is a huge turn-off.
Made a swap in my list:
Seal of Cleansing -> Oblivion Ring
I faced off against a 5-color control deck that ran zero creatures and just removed what it wanted and played lots of Planeswalkers and managed an early Humility on me two games in a row. No, I don't believe I'll be running into many decks like that (or that it would ever constitute a top tier deck that I should prepare for), but it did prompt me to run Oblivion Ring because it's just so much more diverse and also fetchable (and **** Planeswalkers). I was probably silly to take it out in the first place.
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
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Speaking of effects granting multiple mana: I want to test out Havenwood Battleground and Ruins of Trokair, so I will. I've never played with these cards, but I imagine that they'd be really useful in getting to critical Elesh Norn mana quicker. Also, I'm often holding back early plays to do control-like things, so in my build it shouldn't be a huge kick in the teeth to my development to drop these lands on turn 2. We shall see!
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
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Current list for jaykay asking about multiplayer (also always updated link in my signature).
1 Captain Sisay
Artifact
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
Creature
1 Acidic Slime
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Benevolent Bodyguard
1 Devoted Caretaker
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Karmic Guide
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Mirror Entity
1 Mother of Runes
1 Peacekeeper
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Primeval Titan
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Reveillark
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sun Titan
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Dosan the Falling Leaf
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Myojin of Life's Web
1 Reya Dawnbringer
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
Enchantment
1 Aura Shards
1 Sterling Grove
1 Stony Silence
1 Survival of the Fittest
Instant
1 Crop Rotation
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Nature's Claim
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Worldly Tutor
Sorcery
1 Farseek
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Into the North
1 Nature's Lore
1 Rampant Growth
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Three Visits
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Brushland
1 Command Tower
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Flooded Strand
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 High Market
1 Homeward Path
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Marsh Flats
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Savannah
12 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Temple Garden
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Wooded Foothills
Converting to multiplayer means a few things need to be done. One, you need to drop those one mana ramp dirks in exchange for slower yet less flashy two mana ramp spells. This allows you to fly more under the radar and allows for a quicker recovery after a wrath. Two, you need to run more Legendary creatures so you can play the "good guy" if need be. Three, aggro control goes out the window so no swords and in my opinion no Jitte. Let me know if you have any questions I'm doing this from my phone so this is detailed as I'm gonna get for now.
Experimental Kraj
I'm not so sure, at least not for my build. I run a combo build of Sisay and a pure aggro card has no place in my list. Also I'm not sure even Riley would consider him even though he runs his more on the aggro side. He just doesn't do enough to justify a spot.
Experimental Kraj
Riley when making room for cards I wouldn't cut cards that are part of the core. For example Elixar
is exactly what you want. It makes it so that Sissay activates a turn earlier which means it functions
a little better than a mana dork. If your going to make Sissay function as a midrange deck then remember
you only play your general when your trying to corner your opponent. Playing Sissay to Die is only
good vs very Aggressive decks.
Going along with this philopshy you are then able to change the "core" of
the deck around. For example Playing Sissay in this fashion makes You more dependent on sissay to
stabilize the game However, playing a protected sissay as you've noticed makes this dependance possible.
Essantially my point is Reveillark is not a strong when sissay is played in this fashion. I believe that
Your Mid game is Sissay. Reveilark is only good late late... late game! Which means his slot is the
slot of sun titan but you only need one of them. Also the old revilark survival combo is not outdated
for the loyal retainers combo.
That being said you Cut phyrexian revoker which may or may not be optimal, However going along the same
lines its safe to cut Aven Mindcensor. He essantially is trying to fufill Sissays role in being a mid game
card that attempts to push a situation in your way. If your opponent is tutoring that means your able to
tutor with sissay, and if you can't you've pretty much lost the game already.
I also think that Peacekeeper is garbage even if you can protect him. If you're able to get a peacekeeper
to chill out on the board safelly then my friend you've already won.
So the goal just as it was when designing godo is to make sure that you don't have cards that
take your generals job away from him. Which is why for the same reason that I don't have any cards 6cc
or higher in godo. Because At that point I'm going to be getting what I need with godo, and keep replaying
him to dig for answers.
What I've found successfully in godo is running acceleration, Ways to deal With early tempo plays/aggresion,
and provide some disruption myself. So in godo it's my mana stones, and my orcish artillery which only get
better late game. Sissay I believe can benefit from the same way. We've already established that mana
dorks are crucial in out manaing a opponent and late game Sissay turns those dorks into a Win condition
( Via elsh norn) the same way godo does with basilisk collar.
That being said you need to make sure you cover your bases with your legends. For starts against I would
suggest making a chart highlighting what must be done in each matchup ( and believe me edh you need to
plan for everything) on what you need to get with sissay to stablize and swing the game in your favour.
making cuts is now even easier because now your able to see that Mirror Entity is simply trying to do
what Elsh norn does but worse. You never need to pump your dorks early game and the fact he combos
with Harmonic Sliver is cute but Best.
This slot can be Swift Foot boots which I do not think should ever
be cut from the build. It's protection and lets you play a tempo game your opponent which means if you
play right you will be able to punish the other player (Essantially why EDH is so skill intensive).
That Beings said Cards like Scrb Ranger I really do enjoy. They allow you to have a early drop vs U/X
aggressive decks and allows you to play games with your opponent during combat which is essantially
how you gain card advantage vs these decks.
Also I do not see how you can ever cut Skullclamp. Sure sometimes you don't want to kill your manadorks
but the card is too good not to run. G/W's problem is skullclamp and cutting a card that is
relatively easy to tutor for is plain wrong. I cut it from godo for awhile since I don't run
any creatures but like planeswalkers skullclamp creates a minigame that forces a opponent
to play around for the rest of the game. However this does not mean Mentor of the meek is as insane.
I could see mentor being good, but he doesn't chain as well as clamp does. Mentor provides
a relatively low amount of advatange compared to his cost. Skullclamp also helps fight tangle wire
which is important to consider.
I hope this helps you find the right creatures/spells that get invited to sisay's pool party. Theres a few more cards I can see being cut but it
pains me to see you cut cards that are critical for sissay's success. Also play City of Traitors
that card is insane when played right and it can easily replace Homeward path which is cute at best.
Overall I see some easy cuts being
Reveillark/ Karmic Guide (Eternal WItness does there job better)
Mirror Entity
Peacekeeper
Aven Mindcensor
And I personally hate Bloom tender.
I also think that Gelid Shackles is 100% better then Tariff. Tarrif is garbage. It's card disadvantage
and it has very narrow applications.
PS: Gideon's Lawkeeper and his midget brother may be very good in this deck. I would definatly cut Path and maybe even the shackles
for these fellows. They're cheap and they provide disruption, stop zur in their trap and are cool as hell.
Theirs a reason I've been playing the awful card that is Leonin Bolas in Godo for awhile now.
PSs: Narg's right play gavony township.
EDIT: Why do You play Great stable Stag over Thrun?
Okay, mostly everything! I'm still testing Tariff (though it's tested really well so far because OH GOD what do I do against Animar and Geist?!?) and Karmic Guide has done major work for me more than its share of times, but I think I'd be okay with cutting the rest and adding the cards you've suggested in their place.
On Mirror Entity: I have this awesome memory of actually resolving it against a MUC deck in a 1v1 tournament and winning super fast and making the association that "Mirror Entity is the mono blue control killer!!!" I'm glad to get some outside perspective on his place in this deck, because the truth is: LOTS OF CREATURES (and not just one special creature) is the MUC killer. I did some Clique matches earlier and won both games quite handily. It didn't matter what I resolved; I just had too many threats. Mirror Entity didn't factor into that victory, and he hasn't factored into ANY victories in my time on Cockatrice thus far. He's coming out.
Reveillark has also been (almost entirely) not used since my joining Cockatrice. Y'all know I have a huge.. soft spot for combo, but I'm not even running all the pieces that make Reviellark relevant. There was one game that I topdecked him and he carried a Jitte to my come-from-behind victory, but that could have been any flying creature. Reveillark will also come out.
My few matches vs. Lyzolda freaked me out, but I think my opponent had some pretty god-like hands and mine were kinda meh, in sobering hindsight. Trying to shoe-horn in Peacekeeper and Michiko Konda both were bad ideas, I think. I'd rather the two of them were the tap creatures, who can also become huge badass 3/3s in the end-game. Hunter, I love you.
The funny thing with Mindcensor is that I keep thinking "I'm gonna Strip Mine someone with him, oh man oh boy!" but literally BOTH times I've attempted this against two different opponents, my opponent had instant speed answers in response. Both times, I had to hold back a turn 3 play to try and attempt this cute trick that didn't work. He's otherwise just an overcosted flier who makes little impact against decks not being piloted by Evergreen. I think I can get behind cutting him, too.
My paranoia about theft effects is well-founded, but I rarely find myself exposed just because I play much more carefully than I did before. And really, all I have to worry about are Treachery, Gilded Drake, Sower of Temptation, and Vedalken Shackles, and all of those are easily answerable with the exception of Gilded Drake, but I'm certainly not opposed to using removal on my own creatures in desperate times. I think I'll definitely test out Gavony Township in place of Homeward Path.
If I can find the space, I'll put in Gelid Shackles.
I've added Ranger of Eos, and if Elixir is going back in then I think I should give Mikaeus a shot, too. I'm still not a fan of Swiftfoot, though. If I have the space, maybe I'll give Skullclamp another go, too.
Crystal Vein has been good enough to me. Not sure I'm in need of City of Traitors. I can do precious little with colorless mana in this deck. I had Spreading Seas played against me on turn 2 once and I seriously considered scooping.
Sable Stag has evasion, and has definitely won me games due to this. Thrun has inevitability, though. I dunno, I should probably just be playing both. I like that Stag comes down on turn 3 and doesn't require me to keep mana open in case of wrath? /shrug
Yeah, I think I can do away with Path to Exile. Oftentimes, I have WAY too much creature removal, most of which is obviously dead-weight against Animar and Geist. Moar threats is teh way to go!1!!!
So, here are the following changes:
- Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
- Peacekeeper
- Path to Exile
- Mirror Entity
- Reveillark
- Bloom Tender
- Homeward Path
+ Ranger of Eos
+ Thousand-Year Elixir
+
Thrun, the Last Troll+ Mikaeus, the Lunarch
+ Gideon's Lawkeeper
+ Goldmeadow Harrier
+ Skullclamp
+ Gavony Township
Thank you so much for the shake-up, Hunter. Much appreciated. =)
FAKE EDIT: Well crap, somehow my list in the OP ended up with 101 cards, so I dropped Thrun from the latest adds.
REAL EDIT: Ah, I knew I was forgetting something! I've taken out Mindcensor for the time being, and re-upped the lands from 36 back to 37. Of the 4 games I played today, HALF of them resulted in me being several land-screwed, even after aggressive mulliganing just to get a second land. Even though my curve keeps lowering, I still have to hit more than 2 land drops to do anything. -_-
Dropped Flagstones of Trokair and Eiganjo Castle (never ever used the ability) for basics. Bad Moon inspired me.
It's possible that I COULD get away with 36 lands if I'm running Land Tax. Maybe I ought to try that... after goldfishing a half-dozen games with 36, I'm able to get to 4-5 mana in the opening 4-5 turns every time with minimal mulligans, and that's without the Land Tax. Those two games against Hunter were just embarrassing. -_-
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
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My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
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