1v1 Ban List and Rules

  • #1
    Here you'll find some ban lists used for 1v1 Commander, mainly the French ban list. Other places that do 1v1 EDH will also usually follow this list or at least some derivative of it:

    French Ban List
    Source: http://www.ffmtg.fr/Championnat-de-France/Championnat-de-France-a-La-Rochelle-les-infos.html#Commander

    Banned Commanders

    o Braids, Cabal Minion
    o Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
    o Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary

    Banned cards

    Ante cards
    o Amulet of Quoz
    o Bronze Tablet
    o Contract from Below
    o Darkpact
    o Demonic Attorney
    o Jeweled Bird
    o Rebirth
    o Tempest Efreet
    o Timmerian Fiends

    • Manual Dexterity cards
    o Chaos Orb
    o Falling Star

    • "As well as the following cards:

    Ancestral Recall
    Balance
    Biorhythm
    Black Lotus
    Channel
    Coalition Victory
    Crucible of Worlds
    Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    Fastbond
    Gifts Ungiven
    Hermit Druid
    Imperial Seal
    Intuition
    Karakas
    Kokusho, the Evening Star
    Library of Alexandria
    Limited Resources
    Lion's Eye Diamond
    Mana Crypt
    Mana Vault
    Metalworker
    Mind Twist
    Mishra’s Workshop
    Mox Sapphire, Ruby, Pearl, Emerald and Jet
    Necropotence
    Painter's Servant
    Panoptic Mirror
    Protean Hulk
    Recurring Nightmare
    Sensei's Divining Top
    Serra’s Ascendant
    Shahrazad
    Sol Ring
    Staff of Domination
    Strip Mine
    Sway of the Stars
    Time Vault
    Time Walk
    Tinker
    Tolarian Academy
    Upheaval
    Vampiric Tutor
    Yawgmoth's Bargain

    Banned Generals
    Braids, Cabal Minion
    Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
    Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary


    MTG Salvation Ban List

    Ante Cards
    Amulet of Quoz
    Bronze Tablet
    Contract from Below
    Darkpact
    Demonic Attorney
    Jeweled Bird
    Rebirth
    Tempest Efreet
    Timmerian Fiends

    Manual Dexterity Cards
    Chaos Orb
    Falling Star

    Other
    Ancestral Recall
    Black Lotus
    Channel
    Crucible of Worlds
    Gifts Ungiven
    Grindstone
    Karakas
    Mana Crypt
    Mind Twist
    Mindslaver
    Mox Emerald
    Mox Jet
    Mox Pearl
    Mox Ruby
    Mox Sapphire
    Necropotence
    Protean Hulk
    Shahrazad
    Sol Ring
    Staff of Domination
    Sundering Titan
    Time Walk
    Time Vault
    Tinker
    Upheaval
    Yawgmoth's Bargain

    Banned Generals
    Vendilion Clique

    Additional rules for 1v1 play:
    - Players start out with 30 life.
    - Matches are best 2 games out of 3, with a 60 minute time limit. (This time limit is disregarded when playing online or otherwise noted)
    - All other normal Commander rules regarding deck construction, generals, mulligans, paths of victory, etc. are unchanged.
    Last edited by Surging Chaos: 7/26/2011 11:38:09 AM
  • #2
    Would it be possible to name us the reasons for each banned card (in the "As well as the following cards" list)? Smile
  • #3
    It seems appropriate to replace this with the (granted, site-specific) list used here for MWS tournaments. Minor changes have been made (removal of Riftsweeper/SDT off the top of my head) and further changes are being discussed (mostly banning of Vendilion Clique as a general).
    EDH Lists Hazezon's Legion|Wander for Value|Sedris the Entertainer
    Kaervek the Friendly|Rasputin, Chief of Police|Edric's Angry Elves|Vish Kal, Blutgebieter|Trostani is an Ass
    Linvala's Perfect Angels|Sakashima, Stealer of Games|Geth, the Excise Man|Urabrask the Asshat|Multani, the Lazy Omnath

    Pocket knives make good chip clips.
  • #4
    Quote from Daemion
    Would it be possible to name us the reasons for each banned card (in the "As well as the following cards" list)? Smile


    I really can't find reasons for each specific card, but a general to keep in mind is that the cards that are on the ban list that normally aren't banned on the multiplayer EDH ban list (i.e. Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mind Twist, Mindslaver, etc.) are much, much more powerful when you don't have politics like you do in multiplayer to keep someone from getting too crazy. Politics and social pressure/control are the two main factors in balancing multiplayer EDH.

    @ therestless: KPDaly16 told me to post a thread of the French ban list, but I will see what he says about posting the updated version of it that we use. I will have to be redoing the whole OP anyway, due to the screwed up template from when I copypasted the list from the French site.
  • #5
    Thanks SC.

    Regarding the differences between the French list and the MWS Tournament list, I really just want this here as a reference to those building decks for themselves and playing with friends. The MWS ban list is a separate entity (and pretty much has to be due to card interactions like Shaharazad), and will continue to be supported for any MTGS-run tournaments. I would be fine with this post containing both the normal 1v1 ban list and the MWS list the site uses, if that would be easy enough to understand.
    DCI Level 2 Judge
  • #6
    I have updated the post by putting in the MTGS ban list. This includes Vendilion Clique banned as a general.

    Expect the OP to be updated in the future with more additional information.
  • #7
    I'm curious about certain stores in my area are still using the EDH.net site as their source for banned cards. Is it ok for some people to post 1v1 deck despite that other people [i.e. like me] are still using SDT, Sol Ring and etc?



    Duel Commander
    URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG

    Duel Commander Current Projects:
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  • #8
    Quote from Acardus
    I'm curious about certain stores in my area are still using the EDH.net site as their source for banned cards. Is it ok for some people to post 1v1 deck despite that other people [i.e. like me] are still using SDT, Sol Ring and etc?

    As I said earlier, this is just for reference. I do ask, however, that if you're using a house rules ban list, you say so in your opening post and list what cards are banned.
    DCI Level 2 Judge
  • #9
    Quote from Daemion
    Would it be possible to name us the reasons for each banned card (in the "As well as the following cards" list)? Smile


    I think if we pool together, we should be able to figure out why some of the cards are banned in 1v1: -

    NOTE: THE FOLLOWING EXPLANATIONS ARE MOSTLY CONJECTURES AND SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS THE OFFICIAL EXPLANATION TOWARDS THE RATIONALE OF THE BAN. SOME OF THE REASONING, HOWEVER, ORIGINATES FROM THE ELDERDRAGON WEBSITE, WHICH MANAGES THE LIST FOR MULTIPLAYER EDH.

    Ante cards and Manual Dexterity cards are banned "by definition" as EDH uses the Vintage ban list, in addition to an addition list, minus Shahrazad. By definition, this would likely ban other non-vintage legal cards (i.e. non-basic land and other nonland cards from Unhinged and Unglued). Un-sets also breach the Official (multiplayer) EDH criteria where it belongs to a class of cards which can't be consistantly interpreted by all players.

    Ante Cards (Amulet of Quoz, Bronze Tablet, Contract from Below, Darkpact, Demonic Attorney, Jeweled Bird, Rebirth, Tempest Efreet, Timmerian Fiends)
    Ante cards are banned from EDH as it introduces an element of gambling into the game, which may be prohibited in some countries. Even with ante, this card group remained unpopular as players were unwilling to bet some of their more valuable cards. These cards were banned anyway to prevent players from starting with less than 99 cards in their initial library (ante cards are removed from the deck if the ante rule variant is not used).

    It should also be noted that playing for ante is either trivial for MWS since players don't exactly risk any change of card ownership. Indeed, ante on MWS would probably allow one of the most powerful draw cards into the format (i.e.: Contract from Below)

    Chaos Orb, Falling Star
    Manual Dexterity cards are cumbersome as they make the amount of table space relevant, and that isn't the kind of thing that tournament organizers can afford to alter significantly. Additionally, the rules for what is and isn't allowed when using one of these cards are hazy, and the "one foot" thing can be difficult to properly enforce.

    It should also be noted that applying manual dexterity is almost impossible on MWS.

    Ancestral Recall
    The official reasoning for banning the Power 8 lies in both the Power Level of the card (which far exceeds that of other cards) and the money cost of that card. In this case, drawing three cards at instant speed for U is strictly better than a large proportion of comparable draw spells

    Black Lotus
    As with the other Power 8, the official reasoning for banning this card lies in both the Power Level of the card (which far exceeds that of other cards) and the money cost of that card. In this case, an early three mana of any one colour could fuel a large tempo swing on the part of the user

    Crucible of Worlds
    This is probably banned as it fuels a CoW-Strip Mine lock which would detract from the play experience of most players. Repeatable land-destruction is often frowned upon (its synergy with Azusa, Lost but Seeking and its ilk doesn't help its reputation). It is probably little solace but the unbanning of CoW allows Fastbond to be legal in 1v1 EDH (thus far)

    Gifts Ungiven
    Gifts is simply broken (especially at the 3U cost and the fact that it's an Instant). The ability to tutor for two combo pieces and two ways to recur them generally makes this a one-card game-ender, which is contrary to the EDH vision.

    Grindstone
    Grindstone/Painter's Servant combos are made up of cheap components which are easy to tutor up and quick to hit play. Because they come down so soon, they can be online before opponents can be expected to have disruption available... and make up the top tier of combo options.


    Karakas
    Karakas is not allowed in EDH games as it is too hard to deal with and too good at disrupting generals

    Mana Crypt
    This is banned in 1v1 EDH because it provides cheap and powerful mana acceleration, hence giving the user a huge tempo swing when played early game

    Mind Twist
    This is banned in 1v1 EDH because it provides cheap and powerful discard, hence giving the opponent a huge tempo loss when played early game. It is also difficult to answer outside nonblue control decks (and corner case madness cards)

    Mindslaver
    The Mindslaver + Academy Ruins combo has been deemed overly unfun and perhaps not as easy to disrupt for 1v1 games and is hence banned. By itself, it allows you to mess with the opponent's plans and further to that, take a nearly uncontested turn, a la Time Warp

    Mox Emerald, Mox Jet, Mox Pearl, Mox Ruby, Mox Sapphire
    The official reasoning for banning the Power 8 lies in both the Power Level of the card (which far exceeds that of other cards) and the money cost of that card. Moxen provides insane mana ramping which could barely be matched by comparable artifact ramps (e.g the Ramos' Relics and the Mirage Diamonds

    Necropotence
    This is banned in EDH as it provides cheap and powerful draws. Paying 1 life in EDH is not so much when you start with 30 (even if you started with 20, it would still be broken, hence explaining why this card is still restricted in Vintage and banned in Legacy).

    Protean Hulk
    It's a one-card combo which is too easy to tutor up, and once it resolves there are several ways to kill every opponent, instantly. Hulk combo has cropped up multiple times, in different places, and has been the most problematic element in competitive environments.

    The key here is that the kinds of cards required to answer Protean Hulk combo (cheap permission, hand disruption, or RFG-creature removal) aren't the kinds of cards people should have to fill their EDH decks with. As such, the hulk needed to go.


    Riftsweeper
    This is probably outdated as a banned 1v1 card so I will need to double check on this.

    Sensei's Divining Top
    This is apparently time intensive and can be very difficult to answer (it can disappear to the top of the library unless you Krosan Grip it or remove it in response).

    Sol Ring
    This is banned in 1v1 EDH because it provides cheap and powerful mana acceleration, hence giving the user a huge tempo swing when played early game

    Staff of Domination
    Staff of Domination is an obvious combo component, made worse by its synergy with Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary (as the general). It is also versatile with its interactions with many infinite mana combos (helping you draw your win con of choice if it comes to it)

    Sundering Titan
    Three, four, and five color decks being the majority of what gets played in EDH, Sundering Titan can easily strangle any single player, moreso when it comes out early. The fact that it can go into any deck and its asymmetrical nature multiplied this advantage.

    Time Walk
    The official reasoning for banning the Power 8 lies in both the Power Level of the card (which far exceeds that of other cards) and the money cost of that card. Time Walk gives free turns which could barely be matched by most "Time Warping" cards

    Time Vault
    When Time Vault was unerrata'd to be Twiddle-effect friendly, it became one of the most ridiculous cards in the format. Plenty of community members have commented on how game-wrecking it is, and a little extra last minute testing at Worlds showed it's just as broken as expected

    Tinker
    The low cost ability of Tinker to get high cost artifacts (such as Darksteel Colossus or other artifact bombs) into play early in games and significantly impact their outcome easily warranted its banning.


    Upheaval
    I can only conclude that that this card is banned in 1v1 games because it effectively resets the board and could effectively prolong games -- which could be bad if the games are timed

    Yawgmoth's Bargain
    The Bargain is banned in EDH as it provides ridiculous draw ability. Paying 1 life in EDH is not so much when you start with 30 (even if you started with 20, it would still be broken, hence explaining why this card is still restricted in Vintage and banned in Legacy).

    Help me point out any errors.

    7 April 2010: Added explanation for Upheaval
    Last edited by fzian: 4/6/2010 10:17:12 PM
  • #10
    Here's the last version of the French banlist :
    * Generals (only as a deck’s General):
    o Braids, Cabal Minion
    o Erayo, soratami Ascendant
    o Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary

    * Any ante card :
    o Amulet of Quoz
    o Bronze Tablet
    o Contract from Below
    o Darkpact
    o Demonic Attorney
    o Jeweled Bird
    o Rebirth
    o Tempest Efreet
    o Timmerian Fiends

    * Any card requiring physical abilities :
    o Chaos Orb
    o Falling Star

    * As well as the following cards:
    o Ancestral Recall
    o Black Lotus
    o Crucible of Worlds
    o Dark Depths
    o Gifts Ungiven
    o Grindstone
    o Karakas
    o Mana Crypt
    o Mind Twist
    o Mindslaver
    o Mox Emerald
    o Mox Jet
    o Mox Pearl
    o Mox Ruby
    o Mox Sapphire
    o Necropotence
    o Protean Hulk
    o Sensei's Divining Top
    o Sol Ring
    o Staff of Domination
    o Sundering Titan
    o Time Walk
    o Time Vault
    o Tinker
    o Upheaval
    o Yawgmoth's Bargain

    source :
    http://bazaar-of-moxen.com/

    The changes are the banning of the generals and Dark Depths
  • #11
    Thanks Maurice. I have updated the list.

    Very interesting changes indeed.
  • #12
    I can't see how the French would ban dark depths . There are a lot of inconsistency here. WTF! On the generals I think it balances out the format for the French a little bit. Rofellos should be ban as a general since sol ring and mana crypt is banned. This two accelerator helped balanced the power between other generals and rofellos but it only make sense now. Erayo should be ban as a general, that guy is the nuts. I have a deck built around this guy and he flips consistently turn 2. Although I don't go by the French list (general ban list for me) I can see why he was ban. Braids didn't need to get the ax as a general. I built a deck around this guy and he is not that devasting without rol ring and mana crypt.
  • #13
    Like Fzian, I'll explain the reasons for these bannings :

    Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary, Erayo, soratami Ascendant , Braids, Cabal Minion : unfun generals. The opponent has to have a removal in the first turns or die painfully.

    Dark Depths : the reason is obviously the silly combo with Vampire Hexmage. You wouldn't ever play that card if it weren't for that. The problem is the same as with Panter's Servant and Grindstone : if you get a half of the combo, it's too easy to tutor the other half. For these two cases, the card which is the least useful outside of the combo is banned. (VH and Servant allow other interesting tricks)

    I think that maybe these bannings are not all necessary, but they are done to keep the format healthy, so I'm ok with that.

    To my mind, banning Vendillion Clique and Tunnel Vision would also be good for everybody. Maybe later...
    Last edited by Maurice_ChocoSuisse: 4/20/2010 4:31:42 AM
  • #14
    That is really slippery slope logic. HexDepths doesn't even win the game in one turn in EDH. What about Obeyline, or Severence/Belcher? At some point, you just need to admit that 2-card combos exist, and get one with your life.
    "There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
  • #15
    This is quickly moving from Vintage to Legacy. I move for the ban of the following cards as providing immense early advantages:

    Mana Drain
    Land Tax
    Sylvan Library
    Force of Will

    See the problem? Where do you draw the line on "too good"? Everyone makes claims about "card X should go to keep the format healthy but card Y can stay". But face it. It's all just a personal judgment call, and if 100 people put forth their ideas on the ideal banned list, there will be at least 100 suboptimal lists presented.

    These lists are turning into nothing more than "cards I hate playing against". But come on. Your opponents generally have some plan for winning the game, and that means they have a plan for making you lose. They aren't in charge of your feelings. Is it their fault if you don't like the cards they use to kill you? The entire point of playing those cards was to make you lose the game, you know!

    The purpose of banning is to produce diversity in the format, not to make you feel better about the decks you play against. The only cards that should be banned are cards that see play in the vast majority of winning decks in the metagame (or would if they were owned).
    Quote from love_blanket
    The problem with defining [EDH] by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
  • #16
    @LennonMarx
    Yes but at least Obeyline and Severence/Belcher don't come as early as turn 2 or 3.

    In fact, some bannings including DD, Braids & co are source of controverse on french EDH forums.
    I'm not saying they are perfect decisions, I just inform you guys that these choices have been made for tournament playing (Grindstone+Servant ruined an entire big tournament not long ago, for example).

    At first I was a bit puzzled by DD's too.

    @tedv : I agree with you 100%. The French list is made by tournaments organizers, by watching which cards desequilibrate the format.
    Last edited by Maurice_ChocoSuisse: 4/20/2010 10:46:29 AM
  • #17
    Does 21 general damage still kill a player in 1v1 edh?
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  • #18
    Quote from Tapped.out
    Does 21 general damage still kill a player in 1v1 edh?


    From the OP:

    Quote from Surging Chaos
    - All other normal EDH rules regarding deck construction, generals, mulligans, paths of victory, etc. are unchanged.


    Yes, general damage will still kill someone in 1v1 EDH.
  • #19
    Will anyone throw a fit if I post a decklist that disregards the 1v1 ban-list posted here? Our group uses the standard ban list and we have no problems.


  • #20
    I asked the mod the same question once and apparently you could do so though it would be nice if you noted that you are using the Official dragonhighlander.net list.
  • #21
    Are the powers that be here going to update the MTGSal list? I was under the impression that the list would be maintained in the same interval as the "official" list.
    "There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
  • #22
    new oficial bans 2010.06.20 - bye bye Arcum
  • #23


    This is silly for several reasons: -

    1. Arcum Dagsson decks will be weakened by the departure of Tolarian Academy (and maybe Staff of Domination) but it will not collapse without Tolarian Academy. Arcum has many other ways for generating large quantities of mana. I am pretty sure that Arcum Dagsson decks are good not JUST BECAUSE they have Tolarian Academy
    2. This thread is refering to the 1v1 Ban List (see OP) which is slightly different from that of the Dragonhighlander.net deck list. In the 1v1 list, Tolarian Academy remains legal (based on OP). Staff of Domination has been long banned in the 1v1 list.

    By the way, are the 1v1 community planning to amend their ban lists?
    Last edited by fzian: 6/21/2010 7:09:44 AM
  • #24
    Dono but in poland we obey their rules. There are around 40-50 players 1v1 or 4-ppl-multi. I think that Azusa should be banned in 1v1 - Eldrazi Annihilator and 3 LD per turn with CotW are killing fun.

    I agree that Arcum can win without Academy but its very dificult specialy when you lose arcum twice or you got him in library.
  • #25
    A French friend just sent me the French ban list for the 2010-2011 season. I don't have a published source to confirm yet, but I trust him.

    Dark Depths, Grindstone, and Life from the Loam have been unbanned.

    Channel, Painter's Servant, and Intuition have been banned.
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