Hi everyone, after seeing the potential of 1-card-I-win-next-turn.dec (hermit druid), I guess Doomsday is the closest thing in terms of degeneration. Here is the list I pulled out, inspired by Stephen Menendian's legacy DD-deck.
The deck focuses in playing DD on turn 4-5, winning in the next turn with protection through lab maniac.
An example of a DD pile should be (2 cards in hand):
This allows you to swing with Emmy for 3 consecutive turns.
Instant cantrips or cycle cards serve as extra counters in case of removal. The French BL took out one of the key pieces (Sensei's Divining Top) only for time issues, and as you can imagine, this deck could be brutal with multiplayer BL due to a better quality of tutors (Vampiric Tutor and Imperial Seal) and SDT itself.
** Most players will quit on MWS because it's really slow to play Doomsday or Lim Dul's Vault.
Out of curiosity, why use Sen Triplets. Your deck seems more u/b to anything else. It seems like its diluting the mana base more than much anything else. Is it for the inherent protection from counter-magic your general provides? I could be wrong but it seems like if you want to go tri-color Damia, Sage of Stone would be the better choice. She would let you dig through your deck faster and then you wouldn't even necessarily need to set up the can trips with your doomsday package. If you had some way of playing it at instant speed, say Leyline of Anticipation or Vedalken Orrery You could cast doomsday on your opponents turn and win on yours by drawing everything.
Out of curiosity, why use Sen Triplets. Your deck seems more u/b to anything else. It seems like its diluting the mana base more than much anything else. Is it for the inherent protection from counter-magic your general provides? I could be wrong but it seems like if you want to go tri-color Damia, Sage of Stone would be the better choice. She would let you dig through your deck faster and then you wouldn't even necessarily need to set up the can trips with your doomsday package. If you had some way of playing it at instant speed, say Leyline of Anticipation or Vedalken Orrery You could cast doomsday on your opponents turn and win on yours by drawing everything.
The previous version of the deck was UB, but you can gain a lot in white in terms of efficient creature removal and protection. Orim's Chant effects are important to achieve, that's why most of legacy/vintage doomsday decks pack this effects. If would include another color, green doesn't seem very attractive. Damia itself would need some ramp because 7 mana is pretty harsh, Sen Triplets offers some protection the turn you would cast Doomsday, that's the main reason basically, although Merieke Ri Berit was considered as an option. Also, in 1v1 EDH, the game is decided in the first 5-6 turns, so Doomsday.dec fits right in that spot.
Btw, suggestion are really welcomed.
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Legacy Decks:
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander: GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG GW The Captain WG GWB Karadores BWG GWU Jenara UWG UWB Oloro-DD BWU
And if you don't have anys draw/cantrip card in hand at this turn you won't win until your next draw step, allowing your opponent to get rid of the lab maniac (and you at the same time) during his (or her) turn. And it's going to be a little hard for you to protect the lab maniac because of your Fow in the graveyard.
Am I wrong ?
You are forgetting that Brainstorm lets you put back any two cards from your hand, so you put back Lab Maniac/X leaving you with FoW or Pact in your hand. You are correct that you would need a way to draw to win on the spot though.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
Exactly, and if you have one of the pieces in your hand, just look for more protection and cantrips (street wraith and gitaxian probe are the best). It's pretty consistant due to all the efforts trying to cast doomsday pretty fast, the nature of the deck make it a glass cannon.
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Legacy Decks:
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander: GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG GW The Captain WG GWB Karadores BWG GWU Jenara UWG UWB Oloro-DD BWU
I thought about including Secluded Steppe, but one of the primary objetives of the deck is that every land in the deck should produce U or B, because the turn after Doomsday you should need UUB in most cases, so you need the most filters you can afford. For the same reason, Cavern of Souls in not included, but you are right about the filters as I didn't remember all of them. About the cycle lands, the most you have in your deck, the more "protection" you have against spot removal. I thought about Grand Abolisher, but WW might be too much for this deck.
- Portent serve as a second Ponder, the same way you could include something like Dream Cache as a second Brainstorm. Sleight of Hand is both a cantrip an a filter, I thought about Opt in the spot because of the instant speed.
- Careful Study is in the deck, I forgot to include it in the list, thanks for noting that.
- Visions of Beyond is almost useless in the deck, although the card has potential (Doomsday exiles everything).
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Legacy Decks:
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander: GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG GW The Captain WG GWB Karadores BWG GWU Jenara UWG UWB Oloro-DD BWU
You are right about sleight of hand, it doesn't draw anything so I will change it. I will try secluded steppe for the reasons you mentioned, although getting W after DD would be difficult to achieve.
I tested the deck on cockatrice and mws against non blue decks T5-T6 win is constantly achieved (most people quit on the spot because some of the cards are really slow to play, lim dul's vault and doomsday in special)
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Legacy Decks:
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander: GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG GW The Captain WG GWB Karadores BWG GWU Jenara UWG UWB Oloro-DD BWU
I would try to involve more removal and board control. I don't like the expensive tutors. You have a pretty critical mass of tutors, I don't think you need to waste slots on 4 mana ones.
I would try to involve more removal and board control. I don't like the expensive tutors. You have a pretty critical mass of tutors, I don't think you need to waste slots on 4 mana ones.
Well this is a pure combo deck. You can now stay alive much longer with Oloro. So tutor for DD and get your answers and win con for the GGs.
Hi, I agree with merging both threads, I built the deck around June of 2012, and didn't have the knowledge about cards that I have now, so it needs some big changes that could be taken from your list (some board control like Supreme Verdict, more hand disruption).
The initial idea of the DD - Emrakul plan was to fit a Polymorph sub-theme, which will require a better setup and I was thinking that Wydwen would fit better in that scenario.
I'm totally against having a heavy counter version, the basic idea is that you win post DD turn, so you would need to clear the path before, and also you need the mana to do cast things, I have seen some piles that require casting Lab. Maniac, I'm against it because the deck have to win with 3 UB lands, that's why the Unearth version is better IMO. Arcane Denial can also work as a counter, as you actually draw a card after that (like Remand).
Also remove some of the worst tutors (Dimir Machinations, Diabolic Tutor), something between 10-15 tutors is OK I guess with all the cantrips (I usually won T5-T6, playing Lab. Maniac version). Merieke Ri Berit was awful xDD (but then I learned she actually comboes with Minamo, School at Water's Edge), she did nothing to the game plan except slowing aggro decks a little. We could also try to fit something to play along Oloro, as Evergreen suggested, Zur's Weirding is that card, although it plays horrible with Doomsday (unless you have something like Unearth on hand, then it becomes god lol).
The emrakul pile is much much better in a UB shell, where you can afford to play more counters (thus countering Bribery is more feasible). It's also interesting due to you can afford to play cards like Polymorph with a proper deck design (for example, replacing Cloud of Faeries with other untapper, like Franctic Search, but again, needs a better deck design to avoid dying by decking yourself).
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Legacy Decks:
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander: GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG GW The Captain WG GWB Karadores BWG GWU Jenara UWG UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH: GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
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The deck focuses in playing DD on turn 4-5, winning in the next turn with protection through lab maniac.
An example of a DD pile should be (2 cards in hand):
Top
Brainstorm
Thought Scour/Mental Note
Laboratory Maniac
Pact of Negation/Force of Will
Unearth
Bottom
If you think is too vulnerable, a Emrakul's package could be added, for example a pile of (with cantrip in hand + 2 cards in hand).
Top
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Fatigue
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Bottom
This allows you to swing with Emmy for 3 consecutive turns.
Instant cantrips or cycle cards serve as extra counters in case of removal. The French BL took out one of the key pieces (Sensei's Divining Top) only for time issues, and as you can imagine, this deck could be brutal with multiplayer BL due to a better quality of tutors (Vampiric Tutor and Imperial Seal) and SDT itself.
** Most players will quit on MWS because it's really slow to play Doomsday or Lim Dul's Vault.
1 Sen Triplets
Lands (36)
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windsweapth Heath
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Watery Graave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Barren Moor
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Polluted Mire
1 Remote Isle
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Fetid Heath
1 Underground River
1 Cave of Koilos
1 Halimar Depths
1 Tolaria West
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Mesmeric Fiend
1 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Vendillion Clique
1 Mother of Runes
1 Benevolant Bodyguard
1 Spellskite
Accelerators (3)
1 Mox Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Dark Ritual
Removal (6)
1 Sword to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Vindicate
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Detention Sphere
Attack Preventers (2)
1 Propaganda
1 Ghostly Prison
Tutors (14)
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Personal Tutor
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Shred Memory
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Perplex
1 Cruel Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Rhystic Tutor
1 Beseech the Queen/Vampiric Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor/Imperial Seal
Protection (11)
1 Defense Grid
1 Orim's Chant
1 Abeyance
1 Pact of Negation
1 Force of Will
1 Remand/SDT
1 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Duress
1 Hymn to Tourach
Cantrips/Filter/Draw/Other (18)
1 Street Wraith
1 Gitaxian Probe
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Expedition Map
1 Peek
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
1 Portent
1 Mental Note
1 Thought Scour
1 Sign in Blood
1 Night's Whisper
1 Frantic Search
1 Yawgmoth's Will
Combo (3)
1 Doomsday
1 Laboratory Maniac
1 Unearth
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
The previous version of the deck was UB, but you can gain a lot in white in terms of efficient creature removal and protection. Orim's Chant effects are important to achieve, that's why most of legacy/vintage doomsday decks pack this effects. If would include another color, green doesn't seem very attractive. Damia itself would need some ramp because 7 mana is pretty harsh, Sen Triplets offers some protection the turn you would cast Doomsday, that's the main reason basically, although Merieke Ri Berit was considered as an option. Also, in 1v1 EDH, the game is decided in the first 5-6 turns, so Doomsday.dec fits right in that spot.
Btw, suggestion are really welcomed.
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
You are forgetting that Brainstorm lets you put back any two cards from your hand, so you put back Lab Maniac/X leaving you with FoW or Pact in your hand. You are correct that you would need a way to draw to win on the spot though.
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
- Portent serve as a second Ponder, the same way you could include something like Dream Cache as a second Brainstorm. Sleight of Hand is both a cantrip an a filter, I thought about Opt in the spot because of the instant speed.
- Careful Study is in the deck, I forgot to include it in the list, thanks for noting that.
- Visions of Beyond is almost useless in the deck, although the card has potential (Doomsday exiles everything).
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
I tested the deck on cockatrice and mws against non blue decks T5-T6 win is constantly achieved (most people quit on the spot because some of the cards are really slow to play, lim dul's vault and doomsday in special)
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
My Blog About It
Well this is a pure combo deck. You can now stay alive much longer with Oloro. So tutor for DD and get your answers and win con for the GGs.
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
The initial idea of the DD - Emrakul plan was to fit a Polymorph sub-theme, which will require a better setup and I was thinking that Wydwen would fit better in that scenario.
I'm totally against having a heavy counter version, the basic idea is that you win post DD turn, so you would need to clear the path before, and also you need the mana to do cast things, I have seen some piles that require casting Lab. Maniac, I'm against it because the deck have to win with 3 UB lands, that's why the Unearth version is better IMO. Arcane Denial can also work as a counter, as you actually draw a card after that (like Remand).
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
+ Castigate
+ Arcane Denial
+ Dispel
+ Supreme Verdict
+ Demonic Consultation
Maybe additions:
+ Addle
+ Distress
+ Gerrard's Verdict
Also remove some of the worst tutors (Dimir Machinations, Diabolic Tutor), something between 10-15 tutors is OK I guess with all the cantrips (I usually won T5-T6, playing Lab. Maniac version). Merieke Ri Berit was awful xDD (but then I learned she actually comboes with Minamo, School at Water's Edge), she did nothing to the game plan except slowing aggro decks a little. We could also try to fit something to play along Oloro, as Evergreen suggested, Zur's Weirding is that card, although it plays horrible with Doomsday (unless you have something like Unearth on hand, then it becomes god lol).
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG