I have free information to share but I feel like withholding it even though I wouldn't mind the advice because... have you tasted bacon yet?
Unless the OP has a problem with it, POST AWAY! BACON IS DELICIOUS!
Seriously though, the idea isn't bad. It just might not be as good as the alternative. But an alternative is always nice (kinda like the choice between different sides at a restaurant... like bacon cheese fries?)
The reason for Vampire Hexmage and Hex Parasite in the deck is that I primarily play against Horde of Notions with nearly every Planeswalker, at least the good ones. Still have room for more cards, probably more discard.
I don't know why Smallpox hasn't been discussed for this deck before (unless it has and I can't remember it). Things like Sign in Blood and Nights Whisper have though, and I agree with the resolution for them. Too slow. +1 CA isn't worth is in the 1 vs 1. And if this deck turns into Geth for multiplayer, why not have mass removal?
Unless the OP has a problem with it, POST AWAY! BACON IS DELICIOUS!
Seriously though, the idea isn't bad. It just might not be as good as the alternative. But an alternative is always nice (kinda like the choice between different sides at a restaurant... like bacon cheese fries?)
I don't know why Smallpox hasn't been discussed for this deck before (unless it has and I can't remember it). Things like Sign in Blood and Nights Whisper have though, and I agree with the resolution for them. Too slow. +1 CA isn't worth is in the 1 vs 1. And if this deck turns into Geth for multiplayer, why not have mass removal?
We don't play anything over 2HG, and 1/5th of the deck becomes removal when it turns into Geth.
We don't play anything over 2HG, and 1/5th of the deck becomes removal when it turns into Geth.
2HG? Two Headed Giant? So are you telling me you don't play any type of multiplayer besides two headed giant? Just lost on the abbreviations and wording, not criticizing.
And mass removal is still decent. A 2cmc removal spell to get rid of one guy is worse than a Damnation to get rid of two. If the cmc isn't bad, why not run it?
IMHO creatureless build is superior to the one with some infect guys. It's better to draw a meaty spell which changes the board state than draw an infect creature, when the opponents side is clogged with his dudes (or at least could be).
Like I said this would be a meta choice, I am not thinking about switching the entire deck over to a creature build, I might just add Phyrexian Crusader In place of a CITP mana artifact to have 1 more option besides Skithiryx and Inkmoth, my meta has changed to adapt to my handling this deck, it still wins, and it does it well, just small change to keep that happening.
I've done some "pimping" my self. I'd like to get my hands on a black border Demonic Tutor, a foil Ambition's Cost for Black Border and if I can, a FBB Mind Twist. I have an Italian Strip Mine from Antiquities and an Italian Mana Vault FBB.
There are a few foils here and there if the cost for them was only a little more than a non-foil or promo's under the same restriction. And ofcourse Skittles is foil too (picked it up for $10+2 shipping). The deck was finished Friday when my Pithing Needles arrived in the mail.
I liked the lack of creatures in the builds before but seeing the ideas of adding a couple has me intrigued.
I have an FBB Chinese Mind Twist that should be here tomorrow :P.
The lack of creatures in this deck has spoiled me, I am trying to build a second EDH deck and keep changing my mind because I get frustrated with the lack of control I can fit into decks since they need more "other stuff" to win, unlike this deck.
As for Ambition's Cost AND Ancient Carvings I simply don't have both of them, and I don't know what I would drop, Night's Whisper is kind of nice to have simply because it cost's less so you have more free mana.
I actually play the creature version, a few of the good infect guys to lay the ground work, continue what Skittles did before he got tucked, and powerful non-infectors like graveborn muse, shriekmaw, and nirkana revenant, and infect enablers to help these guys get there too(Glistening Oil is our Rancor, guys). I'm satisfied with my list.
I've thought about posting mine here but I feel it's different enough from your guys' lists here that maybe it should have it's own thread. I'll leave it to you if you want to look.
Post your list up if you want or at least start a thread so we can see it I understand what you are saying, your deck takes a pretty different approach.
Unless the OP has a problem with it, POST AWAY! BACON IS DELICIOUS!
Seriously though, the idea isn't bad. It just might not be as good as the alternative. But an alternative is always nice (kinda like the choice between different sides at a restaurant... like bacon cheese fries?)
I don't know why Smallpox hasn't been discussed for this deck before (unless it has and I can't remember it). Things like Sign in Blood and Nights Whisper have though, and I agree with the resolution for them. Too slow. +1 CA isn't worth is in the 1 vs 1. And if this deck turns into Geth for multiplayer, why not have mass removal?
I never even looked at Smallpox I am coming back from a 5 year break so i missed a few things lol.
Just to clear this up, I am very happy with the way the deck performs, it is what I believe to be pretty optimized. A lot of these changes (like adding creatures) will probably end up being changes that never happen, I don't like to lose, so when I do my brain goes hey if you had another creature you could have used it and won, but at the same time I'm sure I made a mistake at some point that could have changed the games outcome also :P.
also I have yet to play test locally since adding the Mana Vault and dropping Skeletal Scrying for Necropotence so I have to see how those changes play out before making any other decisions.
As for Ambition's Cost AND Ancient Carvings I simply don't have both of them, and I don't know what I would drop, Night's Whisper is kind of nice to have simply because it cost's less so you have more free mana.
I would (and have) drop nights whisper. It's too slow.
I never even looked at Smallpox I am coming back from a 5 year break so i missed a few things lol.
I'm coming back from a 1 year break my self. Small pox got me 34th in the last JSS nationals. Don't know why I didn't think of it my self.
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GOD, Why didn't I mention this? I also want to take out Night's Whisper out of my side board. It's basically a dead slot. I'll post my deck tomorrow night.
I would (and have) drop nights whisper. It's too slow.
I'm coming back from a 1 year break my self. Small pox got me 34th in the last JSS nationals. Don't know why I didn't think of it my self.
--------------------ADDED--------------------
GOD, Why didn't I mention this? I also want to take out Night's Whisper out of my side board. It's basically a dead slot. I'll post my deck tomorrow night.
sounds good, I'm not attached to Night's Whisper but if I am cutting something that draws cards its gotta be for something that better at drawing cards
hey guys I too have been bought on by the skittle rainbow...I was looking for a competitive 1v1 deck and in the mixes of finding one I found a player who had a foil japanese skittles HE WANTED TO TRADE...so I did lol and have been working on getting some other foils for the deck...however I dont have a list yet I am really liking the different thoughts this forum is getting
for my list I plan on atleast running phyrexian crusader as well as plague stinger for extra beefyness and a just in case situation. Im curious on your guys lists and the fields you play them in and how you guys feel about certain cards.
best of luck all and lets keep this forum goin
I do not use Death Cloud that often so I put it back into the sideboard. With the new Buried Ruin, running Crucible of Worlds makes even more sense. I will see how it goes.
I like Death Cloud It helps me out, but I can see why you cut it, its situational. I wish I could run Crucible of Worlds but my local play group has banned it.
As far as the foils/FBB's I am chinese so although I don't speak it I like Chinese cards lol
also an early game Sadistic Sacrament wrecks a few decks, my buddy that plays Azusa gets a bit frustrated when I hit all of his Eldrazzi early game.
I am going to ask some questions and give some of my opinions in the following texts, dont take it personally just my observation.
Your deck list to me without any explanation just looks confused, it looks like a mash up of a big mana black control deck and an infect deck trying to do too many things at once.
I think any of those 3 would be a better Commander for your deck list sans the infect/proliferate cards you are running. Every creature in the deck that doesn't deal damage with infect is a useless creature technically since we can fill their slots with instant speed of whatever we need instead of the ETB and LTB effects (I know you have Grafted Exoskeleton)and Glistening Oil but thats 2 of 99, to give your non infect creatures infect, and both of them will cause you to lose whatever they are attached to.)
Again these are just personal opinions and your meta may be totally different which is why your deck is built that way but here are the 2 routes I would go.
1)Infect - cut the non infect stuff in favor of other infect creatures, or more proliferate/control/draw/tutor effects to be more consistant. I personally feel like infect is an all in build (some people like other win conditions outside of just infect damage though, its all personal choice.)
2) Drop the infect - Switch generals up and go mono-black big mana control(I like Maga or Drana more than Geth for this) add a Ring of Brighthearth with Desert Temple, Cabal Coffers and 6 swamps in play and welcome to infinite mana shenanigans.
I am partial to option 1, obviously since this is a mono black/control/infect deck thread.
if you could explain your card choices/reasoning/local meta though that would be pretty cool so I could understand your deck build a bit more. Not trying to be mean, we are all here to learn sorry if it comes off a but harsh.
Yeah I have to run Sadistic Sacrament because theses iditots and with idiots I mean my meta runs stuff like Akroma's Memorial and Runed Halo and its always good to look at target players library.
Cruicble of Worlds is definitly a mean card together with Strip Mine ect. but I have never really played it until now. I will let you know how good it really is in such a fast deck.
My sideboard could use some change as well. I will have a look at it over the week.
a friend of mine is basically running a modified version of that "AzusaLoam" Primer on here somewhere, but without Crucible because of our meta, which I don't get because its just as bad with him dredging life from the loam for Strip mine, Wasteland, Tectonic Edge or whatever every turn ... and Azusa in play, not like banning Crucible fixed anything lol.
Life from the Loam is a great card espacially because of Dredge 3 but why is Crucible of Worlds banned if Life of the Loam is allowed. Give everybody a fair chance I would say. If one guy is allowed to play Life, then the other guys should be allowed to play Crucible of Worlds.
Zur plays Runed Halo and says Skittles. Now he is immune to my only way of killing him. Akromas Memorial is so bad because the creatures have protection from black and flying
because no one used Life from the loam until he built the Azusa deck I guess? so no one thought about it. They should just unban Crucible of Worlds like you said.
Zur plays Runed Halo and says Skittles. Now he is immune to my only way of killing him. Akromas Memorial is so bad because the creatures have protection from black and flying
Another reason for my own build running more than just Skittles as a win-con. I don't care if Skittles does it, or Vatmother gets there, or even the humble Plague Stinger. I don't care if Steel Hellkite with a Glistening Oil, Magus of the Coffers with Grafted Exoskeleton, or Precursor Golem + Tainted Strike does it. All that matters is you've been the victim of a Sorin Markov -3 ability before the game has even started.
That's just why I don't like the all-in method. Condemn effects exist. I don't want to be a sitting duck because you got a near-permanent answer to my only win-con.
The problem is people just assume infect cards are bad, but they have their own value. I was running Septic Rats up until I posted that list, but it recently got switched up for mah black remove soul in Withering Boon when I got ahold of one. People are trying to do the one-shot, which while it's possible, isn't required. I'm okay with a swing here, and a swing there, followed up by a little proliferation to finish the game.
Thats also a way of doing it but I still see some useless creatures in your build which could be exchanged with more utility creatures or infect creatures.
I did not say your build was bad, just that there could be some improvement
To fuel Contamination, I have Volrath's Stronghold and Phyrexian Reclamation. I don't need the lock indefinitely, just long enough to take someone out. And since you only have 10 life, that won't take long. Midnight Banshee is actually especially good here as it eliminates small chump blockers, such as those from Bitterblossom, or Dragon Broodmother(when not devoured), from getting in Skithiryx's way.
edit: However, I can see the merit of running Braids, Cabal Minion, and she will probably go in the deck. I don't know what I would cut for her, I mean, Golem is an OTK with Tainted Strike, Hyppie is old school, but continual disruption- pure card advantage(either they kill it right there, in a 1 for 1 trade, or it hits them, I pull something, and from here on it's an X for 1). And I already detailed Banshee above.
To fuel Contamination, I have Volrath's Stronghold and Phyrexian Reclamation. I don't need the lock indefinitely, just long enough to take someone out. And since you only have 10 life, that won't take long. Midnight Banshee is actually especially good here as it eliminates small chump blockers, such as those from Bitterblossom, or Dragon Broodmother(when not devoured), from getting in Skithiryx's way.
edit: However, I can see the merit of running Braids, Cabal Minion, and she will probably go in the deck. I don't know what I would cut for her, I mean, Golem is an OTK with Tainted Strike, Hyppie is old school, but continual disruption- pure card advantage(either they kill it right there, in a 1 for 1 trade, or it hits them, I pull something, and from here on it's an X for 1). And I already detailed Banshee above.
This is what I am talking about with different apporaches, I don't like Sorin in this deck, I would run Liliana Vess over him to tutor, and i still thing she is too slow, I am not attacking life totals, I am trying to deal 10 infect damage, so playing him just eats up a turn I could have played/dealt more infect.
Your deck isn't bad we just have different approaches.
The "all in general approach"' dooesn't "just work" it work well, look at Clique, Zur, Uril, Rafiq to name a few ... and with the exception of Clique from that list we are mono colored, no mana issues here.
as far as tuck effects are concerned, it just doesn't matter, we have the best tutor color in the game and a close second for the best card draw in the game.
So as you can see I play against tuck effects and counters all day long, and I win consistently, obviously not every time, no deck wins 100%of the time, but I win often, 1 or 2 additional creatures may be a good idea, drop 2 mana artifacts like Everflowing Chalice and something that CITP for Whispering Specter and Phyrexian Crusader, but I don't think I will run more than that.
I just like to play control, and I like black, this approach lets you do that to the fullest and it does it well, for our approach the deck is about as good as it can be without a few money cards like maybe a Mana Crypt or Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor.
The changes dawN suggest to your deck like adding Braids could be fun, I wish Braids wasn't banned, thats who I would be using then
edit: I am going to drop one of my 3 mana for 1 card discard cards for Mind Shatter when I find a foil one, 3 mana still get's me 1 card, but more mana gets more
This is what I am talking about with different apporaches, I don't like Sorin in this deck, I would run Liliana Vess over him to tutor, and i still thing she is too slow, I am not attacking life totals, I am trying to deal 10 infect damage, so playing him just eats up a turn I could have played/dealt more infect.
I think you misunderstand me. I didn't say I'm playing Sorin, I said playing this is like we used Sorin's -3 ability on turn 1. Because they only have 10 life, and that is all i care about. I have no need, reason, or want to actually play Sorin Markov. Just that the infect strategy means I have used his ability on turn 1(in a rhetorical sense, because we only need 10 points to win, regardless of which infect creature gets there).
This is what I am talking about with different apporaches, I don't like Sorin in this deck, I would run Liliana Vess over him to tutor, and i still thing she is too slow, I am not attacking life totals, I am trying to deal 10 infect damage, so playing him just eats up a turn I could have played/dealt more infect.
I think you misunderstand me. I didn't say I'm playing Sorin, I said playing this is like we used Sorin's -3 ability on turn 1. Because they only have 10 life, and that is all i care about. I have no need, reason, or want to actually play Sorin Markov. Just that the infect strategy means I have used his ability on turn 1(in a rhetorical sense, because we only need 10 points to win, regardless of which infect creature gets there).
That makes more sense what you are saying since I didn't see Sorin in your list, but thats what dawN and I are saying about your non infect creatures, they require you to assemble more pieces for the win, instead of just replacing them with control/utility and relying on creatures that already have infect.
I wish I had some Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor but the prices are unreasonable
@Drackon
I don't get your edit What would you like to change?
dropping something like Coercion for Mind Shatter, I know the huge difference is that for 3 mana both get me 1 card, Mind Shatter gives me an opportunity to get more than 1 card though, Coercion lets me look at their hand.
That's everything, right? 6 of mine, 6 of his. Yep. I like Sadistic and Buried Ruin, but I really don't want to pay $20 for a Crudible. Wasteland is a late, late, late purchase and frankly can be avoided. I don't like the damage of dark Confy. And last, I'd like to take out guardian idol, maybe for a better mana fixer or a land.
That's everything, right? 6 of mine, 6 of his. Yep. I like Sadistic and Buried Ruin, but I really don't want to pay $20 for a Crudible. Wasteland is a late, late, late purchase and frankly can be avoided. I don't like the damage of dark Confy. And last, I'd like to take out guardian idol, maybe for a better mana fixer or a land.
With Dark Confidant thats a personal choice, he is just too good for me to want to cut.
How do you do on 35 lands? I was iffy when I went down to 36 we are right around that spot right before we start getting too many unplayable hands.
I've only played a small hand full of games. My GF comes with me to every FNM now and she and I paired together = very slow getting out of the house so, I never get to show up in time to dick around with a few EDH games.
35 lands have bugged me from the get go. I honestly just want to add more black. With 17 ramp, it tends to help eliminate the problems associated with the lack of lands. My oddest draw that has bugged me has been Mox Diamond. I understand it can help you explode but it also is a dead, dead, dead draw if you get it before finding a draw effect and after you've played all your lands. Right now Guardian Idol is looking like a nice swamp.
Slaughtering pack is just removal and it's cheap (which is the goal for all the removal in the deck). You don't "need" Mutilate but it's a nice alternative to damnation and can answer "indestructible". It really depends on your meta (do they vomit creatures?)
That makes more sense what you are saying since I didn't see Sorin in your list, but thats what dawN and I are saying about your non infect creatures, they require you to assemble more pieces for the win, instead of just replacing them with control/utility and relying on creatures that already have infect.
I've only played a small hand full of games. My GF comes with me to every FNM now and she and I paired together = very slow getting out of the house so, I never get to show up in time to dick around with a few EDH games.
35 lands have bugged me from the get go. I honestly just want to add more black. With 17 ramp, it tends to help eliminate the problems associated with the lack of lands. My oddest draw that has bugged me has been Mox Diamond. I understand it can help you explode but it also is a dead, dead, dead draw if you get it before finding a draw effect and after you've played all your lands. Right now Guardian Idol is looking like a nice swamp.
Slaughtering pack is just removal and it's cheap (which is the goal for all the removal in the deck). You don't "need" Mutilate but it's a nice alternative to damnation and can answer "indestructible". It really depends on your meta (do they vomit creatures?)
Lol @ the girlfriend thing I know how you feel my wife takes forever! Mox Diamond is a card I decided not to play with for that very reason. Mutilate is not in my deck right now for that reason, I cannot justify it currently.
also for you Cabal Coffers seems like a 50/50 draw, only running 21 swamps, I know you have Urborg like the rest of just, but how often does it end up being a dead land for you? I have that problem from time to time.
Lol @ the girlfriend thing I know how you feel my wife takes forever! Mox Diamond is a card I decided not to play with for that very reason. Mutilate is not in my deck right now for that reason, I cannot justify it currently.
also for you Cabal Coffers seems like a 50/50 draw, only running 21 swamps, I know you have Urborg like the rest of just, but how often does it end up being a dead land for you? I have that problem from time to time.
Cabal tends to be an even draw if not a negative one to my pool if I get it early game. If it shows up late, or I tutor it after urborg or I tutor urborg after it, then it's massive mana. Unlike Mox, which is early accel, Cabal is large and HEAVY late accel.
But back to what we're both saying. The deck needs at least 1 to 2 more swamps and you can't really cut anything to do it. I feel like 16 mana stones is the minimum to honestly feel an acceleration. I might end up cutting colorless lands to fluff the swamps (I really find my self short on black mana often).
Do you ever notice that? A bunch of double black spells and some colorless mana with 1, maybe 2 black producers?
EDIT
What about Vesuva? What are you copying with it? More often than not, I'm copying a swamp. Cut that and Guardian Idol for 2 more swamps.
Vesuva is mostley a second utility land. But since I went down from 23 to 21 swamps by adding Buried Ruin and Homeward Path I get what you mean. I was also thinking about putting atleast one utility land in my sideboard and exchange it with a swamp. For example the Tower of the Magistrate. I only really need it versus Arcum Dagsson. Homeward Path is another card which could be put into the sideboard. I am going to test it on saturday and let you know.
As you see I started to run 36 lands again. This was a personal choice of mine because I took out 2 artifact mana.
On the topic of Cabal Coffers, it served me well thus far even in early games.
I was thinking of adding a Vampiric Tutor as well. Slaughter Pact is great and served me really well in all my games. I would go as far as to say it is my most used spot removal.
Why not run both?
I am thinking of grabbing a Slaughter Pact its a good card. I cannot cut any of my control cards to be honest, and cutting more mana artifacts is will probably start causing me some slow downs. Maybe cut Nightmare Void for Mind Shatter losing the Dredge ability is meh, I don't use it much, so its a 4 mana for 1 card vs 3 mana for 1 more X for more ...
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Unless the OP has a problem with it, POST AWAY! BACON IS DELICIOUS!
Seriously though, the idea isn't bad. It just might not be as good as the alternative. But an alternative is always nice (kinda like the choice between different sides at a restaurant... like bacon cheese fries?)
I don't know why Smallpox hasn't been discussed for this deck before (unless it has and I can't remember it). Things like Sign in Blood and Nights Whisper have though, and I agree with the resolution for them. Too slow. +1 CA isn't worth is in the 1 vs 1. And if this deck turns into Geth for multiplayer, why not have mass removal?
We don't play anything over 2HG, and 1/5th of the deck becomes removal when it turns into Geth.
Whatever I feel like building.
2HG? Two Headed Giant? So are you telling me you don't play any type of multiplayer besides two headed giant? Just lost on the abbreviations and wording, not criticizing.
And mass removal is still decent. A 2cmc removal spell to get rid of one guy is worse than a Damnation to get rid of two. If the cmc isn't bad, why not run it?
Like I said this would be a meta choice, I am not thinking about switching the entire deck over to a creature build, I might just add Phyrexian Crusader In place of a CITP mana artifact to have 1 more option besides Skithiryx and Inkmoth, my meta has changed to adapt to my handling this deck, it still wins, and it does it well, just small change to keep that happening.
I have an FBB Chinese Mind Twist that should be here tomorrow :P.
The lack of creatures in this deck has spoiled me, I am trying to build a second EDH deck and keep changing my mind because I get frustrated with the lack of control I can fit into decks since they need more "other stuff" to win, unlike this deck.
As for Ambition's Cost AND Ancient Carvings I simply don't have both of them, and I don't know what I would drop, Night's Whisper is kind of nice to have simply because it cost's less so you have more free mana.
Post your list up if you want or at least start a thread so we can see it I understand what you are saying, your deck takes a pretty different approach.
I never even looked at Smallpox I am coming back from a 5 year break so i missed a few things lol.
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Just to clear this up, I am very happy with the way the deck performs, it is what I believe to be pretty optimized. A lot of these changes (like adding creatures) will probably end up being changes that never happen, I don't like to lose, so when I do my brain goes hey if you had another creature you could have used it and won, but at the same time I'm sure I made a mistake at some point that could have changed the games outcome also :P.
also I have yet to play test locally since adding the Mana Vault and dropping Skeletal Scrying for Necropotence so I have to see how those changes play out before making any other decisions.
Well la-de-da!
I would (and have) drop nights whisper. It's too slow.
I'm coming back from a 1 year break my self. Small pox got me 34th in the last JSS nationals. Don't know why I didn't think of it my self.
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GOD, Why didn't I mention this? I also want to take out Night's Whisper out of my side board. It's basically a dead slot. I'll post my deck tomorrow night.
sounds good, I'm not attached to Night's Whisper but if I am cutting something that draws cards its gotta be for something that better at drawing cards
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
for my list I plan on atleast running phyrexian crusader as well as plague stinger for extra beefyness and a just in case situation. Im curious on your guys lists and the fields you play them in and how you guys feel about certain cards.
best of luck all and lets keep this forum goin
I like Death Cloud It helps me out, but I can see why you cut it, its situational. I wish I could run Crucible of Worlds but my local play group has banned it.
As far as the foils/FBB's I am chinese so although I don't speak it I like Chinese cards lol
also an early game Sadistic Sacrament wrecks a few decks, my buddy that plays Azusa gets a bit frustrated when I hit all of his Eldrazzi early game.
1 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Creatures(19)
1 Precursor Golem
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Withered Wretch
1 Shriekmaw
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Hypnotic Specter
1 Midnight Banshee
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Midnight Banshee
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Ichor Rats
1 Hand of the Praetors
1 Phyrexian Crusader
1 Phyrexian Vatmother
1 Plague Stinger
Buffs(9)
1 Howl from Beyond
1 Tainted Strike
1 Bad Moon
1 Grafted Exoskeleton
1 Glistening Oil
1 Lashwrithe
1 Nightmare Lash
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Dark Ritual
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Mind Stone
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Grim Monolith
1 Sol Ring
Removal Spells(6)
1 Ashes to Ashes
1 Tendrils of Corruption
1 Oubliette
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Sudden Death
1 Diabolic Edict
Disruption(8)
1 Mind Sludge
1 Mind Twist
1 Mind Shatter
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Contamination
1 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Withering Boon
1 Imp's Mischief
Card Advantage(8)
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Promise of Power
1 Moonlight Bargain
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Gravestorm
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Caress of Phyrexia
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Contagion Engine
1 Contagion Clasp
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Expedition Map
Lands
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Petrified Field
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Scrying Sheets
1 Deserted Temple
1 Strip Mine
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I am going to ask some questions and give some of my opinions in the following texts, dont take it personally just my observation.
Your deck list to me without any explanation just looks confused, it looks like a mash up of a big mana black control deck and an infect deck trying to do too many things at once.
You have all the necessary big mana generators to run Maga, Traitor to Mortals or even Geth, Lord of the Vault (since he is already in your deck) or Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief. Did it used to run one of them and now you are switching?
I think any of those 3 would be a better Commander for your deck list sans the infect/proliferate cards you are running. Every creature in the deck that doesn't deal damage with infect is a useless creature technically since we can fill their slots with instant speed of whatever we need instead of the ETB and LTB effects (I know you have Grafted Exoskeleton)and Glistening Oil but thats 2 of 99, to give your non infect creatures infect, and both of them will cause you to lose whatever they are attached to.)
Again these are just personal opinions and your meta may be totally different which is why your deck is built that way but here are the 2 routes I would go.
1)Infect - cut the non infect stuff in favor of other infect creatures, or more proliferate/control/draw/tutor effects to be more consistant. I personally feel like infect is an all in build (some people like other win conditions outside of just infect damage though, its all personal choice.)
2) Drop the infect - Switch generals up and go mono-black big mana control(I like Maga or Drana more than Geth for this) add a Ring of Brighthearth with Desert Temple, Cabal Coffers and 6 swamps in play and welcome to infinite mana shenanigans.
I am partial to option 1, obviously since this is a mono black/control/infect deck thread.
if you could explain your card choices/reasoning/local meta though that would be pretty cool so I could understand your deck build a bit more. Not trying to be mean, we are all here to learn sorry if it comes off a but harsh.
a friend of mine is basically running a modified version of that "AzusaLoam" Primer on here somewhere, but without Crucible because of our meta, which I don't get because its just as bad with him dredging life from the loam for Strip mine, Wasteland, Tectonic Edge or whatever every turn ... and Azusa in play, not like banning Crucible fixed anything lol.
because no one used Life from the loam until he built the Azusa deck I guess? so no one thought about it. They should just unban Crucible of Worlds like you said.
Yeah Runed Halo and Akroma's Memorial suck for us, but I don't come across them too much, either way I am already run Sadistic Scarament and Karn Liberated + Nevinrryal's Disk.
Another reason for my own build running more than just Skittles as a win-con. I don't care if Skittles does it, or Vatmother gets there, or even the humble Plague Stinger. I don't care if Steel Hellkite with a Glistening Oil, Magus of the Coffers with Grafted Exoskeleton, or Precursor Golem + Tainted Strike does it. All that matters is you've been the victim of a Sorin Markov -3 ability before the game has even started.
That's just why I don't like the all-in method. Condemn effects exist. I don't want to be a sitting duck because you got a near-permanent answer to my only win-con.
The problem is people just assume infect cards are bad, but they have their own value. I was running Septic Rats up until I posted that list, but it recently got switched up for mah black remove soul in Withering Boon when I got ahold of one. People are trying to do the one-shot, which while it's possible, isn't required. I'm okay with a swing here, and a swing there, followed up by a little proliferation to finish the game.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
To fuel Contamination, I have Volrath's Stronghold and Phyrexian Reclamation. I don't need the lock indefinitely, just long enough to take someone out. And since you only have 10 life, that won't take long. Midnight Banshee is actually especially good here as it eliminates small chump blockers, such as those from Bitterblossom, or Dragon Broodmother(when not devoured), from getting in Skithiryx's way.
edit: However, I can see the merit of running Braids, Cabal Minion, and she will probably go in the deck. I don't know what I would cut for her, I mean, Golem is an OTK with Tainted Strike, Hyppie is old school, but continual disruption- pure card advantage(either they kill it right there, in a 1 for 1 trade, or it hits them, I pull something, and from here on it's an X for 1). And I already detailed Banshee above.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
This is what I am talking about with different apporaches, I don't like Sorin in this deck, I would run Liliana Vess over him to tutor, and i still thing she is too slow, I am not attacking life totals, I am trying to deal 10 infect damage, so playing him just eats up a turn I could have played/dealt more infect.
Your deck isn't bad we just have different approaches.
The "all in general approach"' dooesn't "just work" it work well, look at Clique, Zur, Uril, Rafiq to name a few ... and with the exception of Clique from that list we are mono colored, no mana issues here.
as far as tuck effects are concerned, it just doesn't matter, we have the best tutor color in the game and a close second for the best card draw in the game.
The main deck I play test against is Jhoira of the Ghitu, name a permission spell, he runs it, Force of will, even Overwhelming Intellect as well as Capsize he runs Rhystic Study, Future Sight, and cantrips. Its really just mono blue control with a few red cards that blow up the world like Devastation with a suspended Eldrazzi, and then Time Stretch'ing on you or tucking a card and casting Tunnel Vision.
So as you can see I play against tuck effects and counters all day long, and I win consistently, obviously not every time, no deck wins 100%of the time, but I win often, 1 or 2 additional creatures may be a good idea, drop 2 mana artifacts like Everflowing Chalice and something that CITP for Whispering Specter and Phyrexian Crusader, but I don't think I will run more than that.
I just like to play control, and I like black, this approach lets you do that to the fullest and it does it well, for our approach the deck is about as good as it can be without a few money cards like maybe a Mana Crypt or Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor.
The changes dawN suggest to your deck like adding Braids could be fun, I wish Braids wasn't banned, thats who I would be using then
edit: I am going to drop one of my 3 mana for 1 card discard cards for Mind Shatter when I find a foil one, 3 mana still get's me 1 card, but more mana gets more
I think you misunderstand me. I didn't say I'm playing Sorin, I said playing this is like we used Sorin's -3 ability on turn 1. Because they only have 10 life, and that is all i care about. I have no need, reason, or want to actually play Sorin Markov. Just that the infect strategy means I have used his ability on turn 1(in a rhetorical sense, because we only need 10 points to win, regardless of which infect creature gets there).
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
That makes more sense what you are saying since I didn't see Sorin in your list, but thats what dawN and I are saying about your non infect creatures, they require you to assemble more pieces for the win, instead of just replacing them with control/utility and relying on creatures that already have infect.
dropping something like Coercion for Mind Shatter, I know the huge difference is that for 3 mana both get me 1 card, Mind Shatter gives me an opportunity to get more than 1 card though, Coercion lets me look at their hand.
1 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
LANDS - 35
1 Boseiju, who Shelters All
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Ebon Stronghold
1 Homeward Path
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Lake of the Dead
1 Peat Bog
1 Petrified Field
1 Shizo, Death’s Storehouse
1 Strip Mine
21 Swamp
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vesuva
MANA RAMP - 17
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Coalition Relic
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Dark Ritual
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Expedition Map
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Grim Monolith
1 Guardian Idol
1 Jet Medallion
1 Mana Vault
1 Mind Stone
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Star Compass
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Ashes to Ashes
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Devour in Shadow
1 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hero's Demise
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sickening Shoal
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Sudden Death
MASS REMOVAL - 6
1 All is Dust
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Damnation
1 Death Cloud
1 Decree of Pain
1 Mutilate
DISCARD - 14
1 Addle
1 Coercion
1 Distress
1 Duress
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Mind Rot
1 Mind Shatter
1 Mind Twist
1 Perish the Thought
1 Persecute
1 Stupor
1 Thoughtseize
1 Unmask
1 Ambition’s Cost
1 Ancient Carving
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Necropotence
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Promise of Power
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Vampiric Tutor
OTHER - 6
1 Hatred
1 Karn Liberated
1 Lashwrithe
1 Nightmare Lash
1 Unspeakable Symbol
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
This is my build. It's almost a copy of Dawns build that I looked at a few weeks ago. Major differences include...
Wasteland is replace by Tectonic Edge
Buried Ruin isn't in the deck
Sadistic sacrament is in my side board
Death Cloud is still in the main
Dark Confidant is out, Ancient Carvings and Vampiric Tutor are in
Crucible of worlds isn't in
Everflowing Chalice and Guardian Idol are still in
Mana Crypt isn't.
That's everything, right? 6 of mine, 6 of his. Yep. I like Sadistic and Buried Ruin, but I really don't want to pay $20 for a Crudible. Wasteland is a late, late, late purchase and frankly can be avoided. I don't like the damage of dark Confy. And last, I'd like to take out guardian idol, maybe for a better mana fixer or a land.
With Dark Confidant thats a personal choice, he is just too good for me to want to cut.
How do you do on 35 lands? I was iffy when I went down to 36 we are right around that spot right before we start getting too many unplayable hands.
I want to find space for a Mutilate also, how does Slaughter Pact work out for you?
I've only played a small hand full of games. My GF comes with me to every FNM now and she and I paired together = very slow getting out of the house so, I never get to show up in time to dick around with a few EDH games.
35 lands have bugged me from the get go. I honestly just want to add more black. With 17 ramp, it tends to help eliminate the problems associated with the lack of lands. My oddest draw that has bugged me has been Mox Diamond. I understand it can help you explode but it also is a dead, dead, dead draw if you get it before finding a draw effect and after you've played all your lands. Right now Guardian Idol is looking like a nice swamp.
Slaughtering pack is just removal and it's cheap (which is the goal for all the removal in the deck). You don't "need" Mutilate but it's a nice alternative to damnation and can answer "indestructible". It really depends on your meta (do they vomit creatures?)
Well...I can't exactly play all of the other infectors, because guys like Flensermite, Blackcleave Goblin, and Toxic Nim just aren't playable, even in this kind of build I think. Besides, even if they need the support, how can Graveborn Muse, and Steel Hellkite be bad? They have their purpose. Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni reanimates their utility guys like Acidic Slime and Indrik Stomphowler, which help to cover black's own innate weaknesses.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Lol @ the girlfriend thing I know how you feel my wife takes forever! Mox Diamond is a card I decided not to play with for that very reason. Mutilate is not in my deck right now for that reason, I cannot justify it currently.
also for you Cabal Coffers seems like a 50/50 draw, only running 21 swamps, I know you have Urborg like the rest of just, but how often does it end up being a dead land for you? I have that problem from time to time.
Cabal tends to be an even draw if not a negative one to my pool if I get it early game. If it shows up late, or I tutor it after urborg or I tutor urborg after it, then it's massive mana. Unlike Mox, which is early accel, Cabal is large and HEAVY late accel.
But back to what we're both saying. The deck needs at least 1 to 2 more swamps and you can't really cut anything to do it. I feel like 16 mana stones is the minimum to honestly feel an acceleration. I might end up cutting colorless lands to fluff the swamps (I really find my self short on black mana often).
Do you ever notice that? A bunch of double black spells and some colorless mana with 1, maybe 2 black producers?
EDIT
What about Vesuva? What are you copying with it? More often than not, I'm copying a swamp. Cut that and Guardian Idol for 2 more swamps.
I am thinking of grabbing a Slaughter Pact its a good card. I cannot cut any of my control cards to be honest, and cutting more mana artifacts is will probably start causing me some slow downs. Maybe cut Nightmare Void for Mind Shatter losing the Dredge ability is meh, I don't use it much, so its a 4 mana for 1 card vs 3 mana for 1 more X for more ...