Hey guys! I've been brewing a RUG variant of this deck. Unfortunately I don't have black in the deck so Laboratory Maniac is not really a feasible win-con and obviously I don't get Tendrils of Agony. Any thoughts on what I could use in those colors to finish someone off?
Is Memory Jar just too expensive to hardcast when you don't have access to Tinker or Tolarian Academy? Unless you've got High Tide/Candelabra of Tawnos combo going in which case you're probably already about to win. I know in vintage, the tinker/jar combo enables a lot more early wins, but without Tinker it doesn't feel nearly as powerful.
Memory jars a good card but at 5 it's pretty expensive and hard to go off vs open blue mana with tinker it would be better for sure. It's a good card but it's not as good without playing artifact tutors like say fabricate and it's just not as good at 5 mana considering unlike a wheel j can't even invest the 5 into a new hand I have to most likely tap out then attempt to use it the following turn for value or to go off and everyone sees it coming.
Question for you, Moxnix. Have you considered tweaking this list to take advantage of Waste Not? It has easy synergy with your deck and powers out mana like a boss with the many Wheel effects that are out there now. I think that one Wheel with this card will most likely net you 8+ mana at any given point in the game while also allowing you to chain into more draw spells. I tried combining the Nekusar Wheel list with this one, but I never got the chance to play it and have subsequently taken it apart so I can trade in my cards to get the high dollar cards I'm looking for.
Waste not is not good enough in my build it requires you to tutor wheel when you find it and can still wiff being heavily blue and if your wheel gets countered your essentially 2 for 1 until you hit YW or PiF in which case those cards already win. There are not enough cards in my build that combo with the card and I'm not built to always go off when it does pan out. Also just throwing down the card gets you far more hate than it's worth as it scares people even when it's essentially dead at that time. I do think most nekusar shells can benefit from storm tech specifically minds desire it's the best wheel I see to many of them not playing. I don't think the storm she'll however wants to play bad wheel effects to make this card worth playing.
I've played this deck a bunch now and I have to say it's an absolute blast! My favorite game was: kept a hand of Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, Sol Ring, Helm of Awakening, Turnabout, Future Sight and Gilded Lotus. Turn 1, crypt > helm > sol ring > mana vault > gilded lotus > turnabout > future sight. Sight reveals Timetwister. Timetwister into a bunch of ramp, lands, Hurkyl's Recall and a yawgwin. Land > ramp > hurkyls > yawgwin > turnabout > hurkyls > twister. Don't even bother to look at my new hand cause Sensei's Divining Top is sitting on top of my library. At this point my storm count is already like 30, but I just draw my deck since future/top is online and tendrils for a ton.
The look on the rest of the pods faces worth every minute.
Hey Mox, are you still rocking this deck or are you using prossh more?
I haven't checked out the thread for months, but I'm happy to see you have dack in the deck. I've been heavily considering him as he's one of my favorite cards (own 5 foils ) and he's a beast in my current meta. Let's not get started with him and notion thief...
How are you liking dark petition? I've dabbled with the card in other formats, but don't find it satisfying. Haven't tried it in Jeleva.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard:None
Modern:Taxes, Jund, U/W Control | In the works:5c Gifts
Legacy: Main deck = DDFT/Storm Decks - Almost everything
Vintage: Bomberman, Dredge, Shops, Oath, Gush DD
EDH: German Foil Horde 50%, Animar, Iname DA,Patron of the Moon, Karador + more
Sure am still my favorite deck Dack has been even better than i expected gets the word draw making him a fine draw alter in the game to finish a chain and a monster early trading unnecessary late game cards for more early game action excellent for winning with doomsday and can steal early broken mana rocks or dissuade people from playing them and turn decks using winter orb or other land denying tactics paired with mass mana rocks against themselves. Dark Petiton has been excellent I very rarely run into the issue of having it in non demonic tutor mode and much like storm now in vintage its a hit card better than hit cards at 5+ as another demonic tutor is simply better and in edh I think this is even more so the case. Its a second demonic tutor that comes online slower but sometimes can be even better splitting double into triple black for necro or doomsday or simply grabbing yawgwin to finish off a game which isn't to say you cannot grab cards that are not black or cost more than 3 at all im very satisfied with its inclusion and have not missed the recurring insight it replaced at all the deck is pretty damn tight at this point unless your editing it for a meta based reason I wouldn't touch a thing and honestly if you feel you needed to you should probably just pull out a different deck for that table IE if your table is 3 derevi stax decks all playing storm hate while you could just sbing out the 3-5 worst cards for that MU to add cards like rebuild or other removals I would rather just play a different deck. notion theif + dack is a pretty gross vintage trick that i use frequently when i play 1v1 games more cute in multiplayer as you most likely use your tutor for doomsday with dack or wheel with theif in FFA but always nice when just drawn together.
I have been playing Nekusar Storm for a while and started looking around for something frankly... better. Which led me to your page here. I love what you have made, and its been fun to follow along through the posts to see how it has changed conceptually from your original list to what it is posted as now. I have adapted and am currently testing your tidespout variant to varying degrees of sucess (practice mainly being my big downfall) but having gone through all the pages I was hoping for a more direct answer in regards to substitutions for some of the more pricier pieces that I do not already own. You semi answered someone around page 11 in direct regards but I was hoping you might be a bit more succinct with your 'ideal' changes for these cards if possible. The big ones for myself (and the only 4 cards I don't have off of the list) are
1. Imperial Seal - Personal tutor?
2. Grim Tutor - Flusterstorm?
3.Timetwister - I am currently at a loss for anything that seems directly relevant in similar power/ use - Days Undoing perhaps? Useless when we go off though...
4. Candelabra of Tawnos - Again, unsure what exactly to replace this with - another mana rock?
I realise others have said to just replace cards with different mechanically but better cards but I was hoping you might shed your own light on what an optimal build without these 4 could possibly be. Many thanks in advance and apologies for any trouble.
Well your losing 3 hit cards and one mama card that feels like a ritual losing sealants twister means your losing the ability to tutor sol ring / mana crypt early / wheel early. The card that hurts the most is timetwister you lose a draw 7 that combos with thief a card that lets you play less lands and your second natural shuffle effect a card that's excellent off jekeva and honestly you can't make up for twister with any single card. Similar seal is excellent start to finish in chaining out a game and great in your opener candelabra and grim tutor hurt much less I recommended fixing the front end efficiency by playing personal tutor and extra lands/ mana rocks and conceding some back end efficiency as the decks already got loads of it. So I would add maybe 2 slots as island/drowned catacomb/mana Rock then add personal tutor and then since the remaining slot while it is not quite the same there are 2 very good counters im not running in arcane denial and fluster storm I would use one of those due to sheer card quality. You could also test the new card painful truths in one of those slots or play a cost reducer like goblin electormamcer / sapphire medallion I've also played dark confidant before witch was fine.
Thanks for your fast response. I have been meaning to add timetwister to my power, which has been a slowly growing collection since 2000 as and when I can pick up revised pieces (a little tougher in England, though MKM has its moments!). If you think that this deck operates on another level with it, I shall make a move to pick one up. The other three are unlikely for me to grab just because of the insane price and niche nature unless i can find really cheap copies in the depths of some private collection. I shall give flusterstorm/denial, mana rock and possibly some cost reducers a go and see how that works out. I am not overly sold on bob atm as it gives the deck a creature vulnerability, which technically tidespout has as well but at least you can hold priority to get him going.
This is my favorite deck too. I'll give dark petition a go. What I really like about this deck is how it's able to win out of no where. My friends actually enjoy watching me go off as they're wondering how I figure out my lines... even if my turn is 10+ minutes haha. When I get a little closer on pimping the deck, I'll post a picture.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard:None
Modern:Taxes, Jund, U/W Control | In the works:5c Gifts
Legacy: Main deck = DDFT/Storm Decks - Almost everything
Vintage: Bomberman, Dredge, Shops, Oath, Gush DD
EDH: German Foil Horde 50%, Animar, Iname DA,Patron of the Moon, Karador + more
Excellent I would love to see them I may post pictures I have a little old video with my cards but my cameramenships not excellent doesn't have my shiny Dack in it though ;). I would say grim is not important enough to warrent buying if your on a tight budget while similarly seal while stronger is quite Pricey though it's very good twister however is invaluable I've played without it before I owned one in paper and before it was real add on mtgo it's real power and makes a noticeable difference. Let's put it this way one of the main reasons I splashed red was wheel on fortune while other cards like grapeshot PiF red blast dack etc are all excellent wheel is the best card I'm splashing and I think twisters better in general and can do some sweet things wheel cannot like twister DD piles win games where are 3 eu conditions are gone and in general is just incredible here. The deck works fine without make no mistake but its a powerful card and worth the investment
How has gilded lotus been serving you? I've been using reality spasm as a replacement for candelabra, but I don't really like that card and have been looking to replace it and gilded lotus is one of the cards i'm looking into.
Just wanted to update again and say thanks. Picked up a timetwister on your suggestion and it has been giving insane value and performance each time i end up with it in hand. Its not in the best condition but as long as i can use it for tourneys thats all that matters! Still not sold on imp seal or grim so wont look to pick those up, running flusterstorm and everflowing chalice instead. Flusterstorms work really nicely, prefer it to cspell and manadrain, but thats likely because i play multiplayer and it wrecks team fights.
Just wanted to say thanks and that to those who want to run this, timetwister is like running the deck on full power, without it its just not the same. Well worth the investment, especially as we wont see another reprint anytime soon!
Just wanted to update again and say thanks. Picked up a timetwister on your suggestion and it has been giving insane value and performance each time i end up with it in hand. Its not in the best condition but as long as i can use it for tourneys thats all that matters! Still not sold on imp seal or grim so wont look to pick those up, running flusterstorm and everflowing chalice instead. Flusterstorms work really nicely, prefer it to cspell and manadrain, but thats likely because i play multiplayer and it wrecks team fights.
Just wanted to say thanks and that to those who want to run this, timetwister is like running the deck on full power, without it its just not the same. Well worth the investment, especially as we wont see another reprint anytime soon!
The trick is that youll notice a similar improvement with the expensive tutors.
Moxnix, had a chance to view the new spoilers for Shadows Over Innistrad yet? What do you think of Epipany at the Drownyard?
I don't like it in general and im definitely not playing it in here my list is very tight in fact i think im goign to do an updated more in depth card analysis and how to pilot video soon as all the footage I have been able to record of the deck in the last month or so is trash my opponents do stupid things or have bad decks and the best part of the recordings is just my advise and not the game themselves so i think im just going to release something that explains my current card choices and lines of play i take to victory etc as well im pretty confident in all my choices and unless something very powerful gets printed or they unban something broken i don't forsee making any changes any time soon.
I have most of the deck put together but I'm missing mana crypt, timetwister, imperial seal, canadalabra and grim tutor. I've replaced these with beseech the queen, personal tutor, izzet signet, reality spasm and an extra land. Is this fine until I'm able to acquire the cards I am missing or are there better replacements out there?
Moxnix, I have a question about the line on that opening game. What's the thought process behind Imperial Seal for Future Sight? Sure, you had helm already, but you were missing top or a tutor. You got lucky and topdecked Demonic Tutor for the instant win, but you could have sealed for Ad Nauseam and still gone off the same turn without being in topdeck mode.
Rather roll the dice on manipulating the top of your deck with Future Sight to find the instant win than gamble with bricking on Ad Naus?
EDIT: And of course if helm had been top instead, then for sure future sight.
Ah sure it's 1v1 and I have helm so first if all any tutor doomsday or too can get me to an instant win. Second if I go t2 helm there is a good chance my opponent tries to make use of it on his turn 3 thinking he's got a window to tap out or make a value play which is exactly what happened. In my experience the deck he was using has few answers to futuresight but lots of counter magic on turn as nauseam was not as good and passing have him the option to go into counter spell. If this is multiplayer good chance I put twister on top and play t2 signet into t3 twister floating rituals mana if I don't tho k I can push through an and tutor AN with not much blue at the table. In my case however even without hitting an instant win futuresight puts my oppents control
Strategy in a very bad spot and in my eyes mainly had much better chance of resolving he sees 1ess card and is much more likely to have tapped out. Luck favors the brave and rejects the cowardly not only did he walk right into
My helm trap but I top deck an excellent card and it's all over.
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I see the pros and cons of these but Id like to hear some oppinions on them.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
The look on the rest of the pods faces worth every minute.
I haven't checked out the thread for months, but I'm happy to see you have dack in the deck. I've been heavily considering him as he's one of my favorite cards (own 5 foils ) and he's a beast in my current meta. Let's not get started with him and notion thief...
How are you liking dark petition? I've dabbled with the card in other formats, but don't find it satisfying. Haven't tried it in Jeleva.
Standard:None
Modern:Taxes, Jund, U/W Control | In the works:5c Gifts
Legacy: Main deck = DDFT/Storm Decks - Almost everything
Vintage: Bomberman, Dredge, Shops, Oath, Gush DD
EDH: German Foil Horde 50%, Animar, Iname DA,Patron of the Moon, Karador + more
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I have been playing Nekusar Storm for a while and started looking around for something frankly... better. Which led me to your page here. I love what you have made, and its been fun to follow along through the posts to see how it has changed conceptually from your original list to what it is posted as now. I have adapted and am currently testing your tidespout variant to varying degrees of sucess (practice mainly being my big downfall) but having gone through all the pages I was hoping for a more direct answer in regards to substitutions for some of the more pricier pieces that I do not already own. You semi answered someone around page 11 in direct regards but I was hoping you might be a bit more succinct with your 'ideal' changes for these cards if possible. The big ones for myself (and the only 4 cards I don't have off of the list) are
1. Imperial Seal - Personal tutor?
2. Grim Tutor - Flusterstorm?
3.Timetwister - I am currently at a loss for anything that seems directly relevant in similar power/ use - Days Undoing perhaps? Useless when we go off though...
4. Candelabra of Tawnos - Again, unsure what exactly to replace this with - another mana rock?
I realise others have said to just replace cards with different mechanically but better cards but I was hoping you might shed your own light on what an optimal build without these 4 could possibly be. Many thanks in advance and apologies for any trouble.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Thank again, really appreciate your advice!
Standard:None
Modern:Taxes, Jund, U/W Control | In the works:5c Gifts
Legacy: Main deck = DDFT/Storm Decks - Almost everything
Vintage: Bomberman, Dredge, Shops, Oath, Gush DD
EDH: German Foil Horde 50%, Animar, Iname DA,Patron of the Moon, Karador + more
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I pimped mine in an vintage manner a few weeks ago. Love to play with these old cards #vintage4life
Just wanted to update again and say thanks. Picked up a timetwister on your suggestion and it has been giving insane value and performance each time i end up with it in hand. Its not in the best condition but as long as i can use it for tourneys thats all that matters! Still not sold on imp seal or grim so wont look to pick those up, running flusterstorm and everflowing chalice instead. Flusterstorms work really nicely, prefer it to cspell and manadrain, but thats likely because i play multiplayer and it wrecks team fights.
Just wanted to say thanks and that to those who want to run this, timetwister is like running the deck on full power, without it its just not the same. Well worth the investment, especially as we wont see another reprint anytime soon!
The trick is that youll notice a similar improvement with the expensive tutors.
Higher tutor density = more powerful lines
I don't like it in general and im definitely not playing it in here my list is very tight in fact i think im goign to do an updated more in depth card analysis and how to pilot video soon as all the footage I have been able to record of the deck in the last month or so is trash my opponents do stupid things or have bad decks and the best part of the recordings is just my advise and not the game themselves so i think im just going to release something that explains my current card choices and lines of play i take to victory etc as well im pretty confident in all my choices and unless something very powerful gets printed or they unban something broken i don't forsee making any changes any time soon.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I have most of the deck put together but I'm missing mana crypt, timetwister, imperial seal, canadalabra and grim tutor. I've replaced these with beseech the queen, personal tutor, izzet signet, reality spasm and an extra land. Is this fine until I'm able to acquire the cards I am missing or are there better replacements out there?
updated deck tech i had some more i wanted to add but i got tired after talking for nearly an hour
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Rather roll the dice on manipulating the top of your deck with Future Sight to find the instant win than gamble with bricking on Ad Naus?
EDIT: And of course if helm had been top instead, then for sure future sight.
Strategy in a very bad spot and in my eyes mainly had much better chance of resolving he sees 1ess card and is much more likely to have tapped out. Luck favors the brave and rejects the cowardly not only did he walk right into
My helm trap but I top deck an excellent card and it's all over.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429