MTG Salvation

So, this one feels a lot less chicken little than Urza did given the amount of 2 card combos that this can create. Sure, the Sign in Blood double ups are cute and ruthlessly good value, but turning Wall of Blood into a better Yawgmoth's Bargain off the top of my head seems like it could end up being a problem.

Now for context, I didn't play during Griz-Daddy's time in EDH so I don't know how consistently he was castable as a commander, but I would imagine his power in the 99 was the cause by being cheated into play. Vilis really doesn't require that much set up at all with a whole swathe of free life paying outlets, even gaining insane value from Mana Crypt, Ancient Tomb and Mana Vault to hard cast him early if you're desperate. The hilarious auto-loss to Nekusar not withstanding, this card could easily be on a power level worth considering. This is without even just straight looking at how much more broken Necropotence or Glacial Chasm becomes with this.

How are we feeling on this one?

Pretty sure setting up a combo that draws you 35 cards isn’t in the same league as card draws 35 just by coming into play. He might become a pretty good clone/steal/reanimate target, but at eight mana and not doing much alone I can’t imagine it being too prevalent. So for me the question is “is setting up a combo that just draws your deck worse for the format than other things out there?” and I feel it’s a pretty solid “no”. Enter the Infinite already does that for a few extra mana, and while sure you can cheat this out..you still need to also assemble the combo.

Griselbrand didn't need help - it just drew 35 cards off the bat
This card is fine

Quote from Dunharrow »

Griselbrand didn't need help - it just drew 35 cards off the bat
This card is fine

My thoughts exactly. I do like how, with a bit of set-up that is however not difficult to pull off in mono-black, this guy essentially becomes a Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief who spends mana to kill creatures, but with draw power instead of "kill folks with commander damage" power. People WILL find a way to break this, but isn't that true for most cards nowadays?

This card is very strong, but weaker than Razaketh, the foulblooded by a gigantic margin. If Raz is OK, this is OK.

it makes good cards better and bad cards good.

it feels like its a winmore in most circumstances and the hoops that you have to jump through to make the engine go, it would probably be better to just play tutor and tutor for a more resilient wincon.

The limit of Black mana per draw makes this WAY less broken than Grizz. I am sure people will do dumb stuff with BSZ, but meh.

It's really the second spot of the text that's the potential issue people're concerned with. Necropotence for example lets you just draw a card whenever (and then get another one with Necro later).

I doubt we are even thinking of all the cool stuff that can be done.

Still, he costs 8 and requires playing some synergy. I doubt it'll be a problem, but that ability is very strong.


Weirdly, I think it's probably at its worst from the command zone tbh, as cheating creatures out is pretty easy but casting an 8 cmc dude is not so easy.

The simplest is Entomb Reanimate Draw 8 cards, very powerful card but more on the Raza side than the Griz side

Dumb question im sure but I'm fairly sure tendrils copies hitting you would read draw two right? Heh

I'd be less annoyed about the design if he didn't have the -1/-1 ability. It's like "hey, here's this broken line of text about drawing cards when you lose life...but what if they don't have necro or something in play? Oh no, they'd only have an 8/8 demon that makes attacking them almost impossible! We'd better make sure they have a backup plan, just in case."

Cards should have more fail cases. Playing game-winning haymakers until one resolves is not interesting magic.

Whether or not this deserves banning I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be shocked.

I think it would have been much more interesting with an upkeep or end step of the controller loses 2 life.

Being able to machine gun the board with coffers is pretty boring.

Quote from Pokken »

I think it would have been much more interesting with an upkeep or end step of the controller loses 2 life.

Being able to machine gun the board with coffers is pretty boring.

I mean, if you have 8 mana to cast villis and enough mana to machine gun the board then I feel like you could be winning with a lot of cards. The fact is that typically, when Villis hits, you may draw one or two cards. If you get to untap with him it could be an issue. I think that's okay considering it is an 8-mana general.

I agree with the person above who said this will be a better card in the 99 than in the command zone. Reanimation is the way to go.