Something to keep in mind is that Doubling Season quadruples your counters. Putting 5 +1/+1 counters on a creature while Doubling Season is out means 20 growth counters for Simic Ascendancy.
So Doubling Season breaks another card? Sounds like more of an argument to ban DS than another random card.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Something to keep in mind is that Doubling Season quadruples your counters. Putting 5 +1/+1 counters on a creature while Doubling Season is out means 20 growth counters for Simic Ascendancy.
So Doubling Season breaks another card? Sounds like more of an argument to ban DS than another random card.
Well, it doesn't do what Impossible is saying it does. Put 5 +1/+1s on a creature at once, and the ascendancy will generate 1 growth counter, which doubling season will turn into 2. If you put the counters all on different creatures, or on the same creature but one at a time, you can generate 10 growth counters. Simic A only adds 1 growth counter whenever 1 or more counters is put on a creature, not for each counter. So Doubling Season makes it better, but doesn't break it.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Whenever one or more +1/+1 counters are put on a creature you control, put that many growth counters on Simic Ascendancy.
As to the question at hand, I don't think we have enough data yet to show it is ubiquitous and oppressive enough to warrant a ban. It is certainly not the first alt-win card that can be broken with other broken things (or even just very strong synergies). Being an Enchantment makes it vulnerable to removal, though not as much as it would be if it were a creature. I don't really like alt-win cards like this personally, but I don't know that it is right to ban this one.
Whenever one or more +1/+1 counters are put on a creature you control, put that many growth counters on Simic Ascendancy.
As to the question at hand, I don't think we have enough data yet to show it is ubiquitous and oppressive enough to warrant a ban. It is certainly not the first alt-win card that can be broken with other broken things (or even just very strong synergies). Being an Enchantment makes it vulnerable to removal, though not as much as it would be if it were a creature. I don't really like alt-win cards like this personally, but I don't know that it is right to ban this one.
I stand corrected.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I dunno about this card. It does so little on its own (a very bad mana sink) but it's also very cheap.
I am inclined to think that Felidar Sovereign is quite a bit more powerful in abstract since it doesn't really require any setup (and is a big fat blocker as well as "gain 4 life a turn" on most boards).
So my gut instinct is to say it'll probably fall in that same place, where mostly people don't dither with it, and there're far more consistent ways to win fast in Simic if that's what you're trying to do. I'm not sure losing to this would bother me if I allowed them to fill a board with critters or proliferate effects or whatever as required to make it go fast, or if I left it untouched for turn after turn and win slow.
I dunno about this card. It does so little on its own (a very bad mana sink) but it's also very cheap.
I am inclined to think that Felidar Sovereign is quite a bit more powerful in abstract since it doesn't really require any setup (and is a big fat blocker as well as "gain 4 life a turn" on most boards).
So my gut instinct is to say it'll probably fall in that same place, where mostly people don't dither with it, and there're far more consistent ways to win fast in Simic if that's what you're trying to do. I'm not sure losing to this would bother me if I allowed them to fill a board with critters or proliferate effects or whatever as required to make it go fast, or if I left it untouched for turn after turn and win slow.
It's a touch better than Felidar just because it's easier to deal with creatures, and also easy to make people lose life. Still, there's a solid amount of enchantment removal that are auto includes, like Krosan Grip, Abriot Decay, Austere Command, etc. Also, preventing counters from being placed by killing creatures can work. Black and Red will struggle, but this is a multiplayer game and this card threatens the table, so black and red just need to rely on others to help. Also, Horobi. Horobi shuts it the **** down.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Revel is good even when you don't win with its trigger. Yesterday I had a game with both Revel and Smothering Tithe in play. One of my opponents tutored up Merciless Eviction and then ended up casting it choosing creatures when I promised to never start my turn with 10 treasures and Revel in play for the rest of the game.
The extra mana I got from Revel was literally the difference between me comboing off and me losing the game.
It's a touch better than Felidar just because it's easier to deal with creatures, and also easy to make people lose life. Still, there's a solid amount of enchantment removal that are auto includes, like Krosan Grip, Abriot Decay, Austere Command, etc. Also, preventing counters from being placed by killing creatures can work. Black and Red will struggle, but this is a multiplayer game and this card threatens the table, so black and red just need to rely on others to help. Also, Horobi. Horobi shuts it the **** down.
I mean, if you ramp unto feldiar guardian on turn 3 or 4 and then untap and win, that takes zero cards other than a little ramp. In some games you can just cast it and then untap and win.
The difference is that the ascendancy actually requires cards to win with (you need at the very least 20 counters worth of creatures over several turns, or a multi-card combo of doubling season or vorel or whatever).
I'm sure it's fine but I don't think it's strictly stronger than sovereign (which I think of as kinda the benchmark for these nonsense win conditions).
Mechanized Production is also arguably stronger. Making 8 thopter tokens is pretty easy in the grand scheme of things. Possibly not even more significant deckbuilding constraints, since copying artifacts is pretty easy and a powerful thing to be doing on its own.
I mean, in a dedicated counter deck the card is gonna be quite powerful, but as good as Felidar or Test of Endurance in a lifegain deck or Mechanized in an artifact deck?
It's a touch better than Felidar just because it's easier to deal with creatures, and also easy to make people lose life. Still, there's a solid amount of enchantment removal that are auto includes, like Krosan Grip, Abriot Decay, Austere Command, etc. Also, preventing counters from being placed by killing creatures can work. Black and Red will struggle, but this is a multiplayer game and this card threatens the table, so black and red just need to rely on others to help. Also, Horobi. Horobi shuts it the **** down.
I mean, if you ramp unto feldiar guardian on turn 3 or 4 and then untap and win, that takes zero cards other than a little ramp. In some games you can just cast it and then untap and win.
The difference is that the ascendancy actually requires cards to win with (you need at the very least 20 counters worth of creatures over several turns, or a multi-card combo of doubling season or vorel or whatever).
I'm sure it's fine but I don't think it's strictly stronger than sovereign (which I think of as kinda the benchmark for these nonsense win conditions).
Mechanized Production is also arguably stronger. Making 8 thopter tokens is pretty easy in the grand scheme of things. Possibly not even more significant deckbuilding constraints, since copying artifacts is pretty easy and a powerful thing to be doing on its own.
I mean, in a dedicated counter deck the card is gonna be quite powerful, but as good as Felidar or Test of Endurance in a lifegain deck or Mechanized in an artifact deck?
Remains to be seen I guess
Felidar can randomly win, but it's a dice roll, and easy to stop. Even in a dedicated lifegain deck it usually just eats removal immediately. Even so, it's worth it there, at least IMO, for the occasional free wins. Simic A I think does more to advance your game plan even if it doesn't get the free win, and it's a bit harder to answer.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
What does it do to advance your gameplan? Is 3 mana for a +1/+1 counter really good? feels like a pretty crappy rate to me. If you're spending mana on that you're playing a really crappy deck I have to assume.
What does it do to advance your gameplan? Is 3 mana for a +1/+1 counter really good? feels like a pretty crappy rate to me. If you're spending mana on that you're playing a really crappy deck I have to assume.
Or more likely, you held up mana for interaction that didn't need to be used. Now you have 3+ mana that is wasted unless you can spend it on an ability, and a +1/+1 counter and progressing and additional 1/20th towards an alternative win is much better than absolutely nothing.
What does it do to advance your gameplan? Is 3 mana for a +1/+1 counter really good? feels like a pretty crappy rate to me. If you're spending mana on that you're playing a really crappy deck I have to assume.
Or more likely, you held up mana for interaction that didn't need to be used. Now you have 3+ mana that is wasted unless you can spend it on an ability, and a +1/+1 counter and progressing and additional 1/20th towards an alternative win is much better than absolutely nothing.
This. Its a bad rate for a primary plan, but a decent rate for a backup. Sometimes you play a more reactive deck, and overpaying for an effect because it can be used at instant speed is par for the course. Sometimes, things go wrong and a reliable, repeatable counter generator is a good thing, especially if it can win the game under the right conditions. And sometimes, you get your board wiped and it helps you recover faster.
Its not awesome at doing all this, but it serves a +1/+1 counter centric plan better than Felidar serves a lifegain gameplan, because in order to gain 4 life with Felidar you have to put it at risk by attacking.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
What does it do to advance your gameplan? Is 3 mana for a +1/+1 counter really good? feels like a pretty crappy rate to me. If you're spending mana on that you're playing a really crappy deck I have to assume.
Or more likely, you held up mana for interaction that didn't need to be used. Now you have 3+ mana that is wasted unless you can spend it on an ability, and a +1/+1 counter and progressing and additional 1/20th towards an alternative win is much better than absolutely nothing.
This. Its a bad rate for a primary plan, but a decent rate for a backup. Sometimes you play a more reactive deck, and overpaying for an effect because it can be used at instant speed is par for the course. Sometimes, things go wrong and a reliable, repeatable counter generator is a good thing, especially if it can win the game under the right conditions. And sometimes, you get your board wiped and it helps you recover faster.
Its not awesome at doing all this, but it serves a +1/+1 counter centric plan better than Felidar serves a lifegain gameplan, because in order to gain 4 life with Felidar you have to put it at risk by attacking.
The deck I've put it into also has cards like Plaxcaster Frogling, Vigean Graftmage, and Fertilid, so putting a +1/+1 counter on something can be my interaction, given the right board state. "Surprise! That tapped creature is now untapped, bigger, and can block your attacker." "Nope! Your removal target has shroud now." etc.
Yeh, I'm not really sure this is something I'm going to be convinced on. It's just such an incredibly weak card in a vacuum set against one of the most powerful color schemes in EDH with a fairly powerful archetype.
You guys make a reasonable case but when I imagine trying to cut say, a good card, for this, I struggle. Never seen a +1/+1 counter deck struggling to get counters on its dudes y'know?
But appreciate the insightful comments.
Edit: not to say I'm claiming to be an authority or anything I just think this is one where i'd have to see it in practice a bunch before I could be sure
Or more likely, you held up mana for interaction that didn't need to be used. Now you have 3+ mana that is wasted unless you can spend it on an ability, and a +1/+1 counter and progressing and additional 1/20th towards an alternative win is much better than absolutely nothing.
That reminds me of infect. The first nine points are inconsequential to an opponent if you're the only one playing infect, it's just the final point that kills players. Dumping 30 EOT mana into an enchantment and watching it eat removal is a horrible feeling and makes the card a wasted slot if you included 8t as an alternative wincon without any other synergy.
I find it hilarious to consider any wincon that has to be telegraphed to be "broken". The only issues are wincons that win on the spot, and of that we only truly have one and that one is banned. All the others tend to require both work beforehand and then waiting a bit/adding some more work to get the win.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
So a 3 card combo that has to last until my upkeep? Ok
I think this is smacks the nail right on the head.
At the end of the day, it's still an enchantment that does nothing by itself, and requires at least 1 other card to be effective, and 3 cards total for it to actually get somewhat powerful.
It's probably not nearly ban-material. Also, having run a battle of wits+spawnsire of ulamog and a (giant) pile of ulamog, the infinite gyre alt-win "combo", it's a "gotcha" once, kinda funny the second time, and extremely boring the third time. I think pressure from others from player's play groups will make people stop trying to jam-tutor this into decks as a 'combo-finisher'.
It is not nearly ban material. Can you get there with the card? Forgotten Ancient will jump that number up pretty quickly. Sure, but as folks have pointed out, it's much like Felidar Sovereign. You have to wait until the upkeep trigger and so forth. I can see putting it into a Simic deck that already does +1/+1 counters, but at that point it's just an alternate wincon. Maybe it'll lead to more people playing Aether Snap.
I've put it, Helix Pinnacle and Darksteel Reactor in my Pir & Toothy deck and had quite a few test runs with it. While Simic Ascendancy is by far the easiest to reach, it's also the one that's easiest to remove. If I win through one of those three cards, chances are it's Darksteel Reactor and a combination of Proliferate effects that do the trick.
It's great at drawing out an immediate answer, but I've only won one game with it.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I've been running Simic Ascendancy in my Vorel deck, and I will have to say that the card is really only dangerous when it lands early. Yes, it can get silly with Doubling Season, Vorel of the Hull Clade, Deepglow Skate, etc. that double up on counter production, but I really just like having the ability to put a +1/+1 counter on anything that needs it for a reasonable cost. Yes, there will be games where somebody goes drops Doubling Season then Kalonian Hydra then activates Vorel on the Hydra and ends up with 32 counters on the Ascendancy in the blink of an eye, but I don't see that being too problematic.
So Doubling Season breaks another card? Sounds like more of an argument to ban DS than another random card.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Anyone can start a SCD.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Well, it doesn't do what Impossible is saying it does. Put 5 +1/+1s on a creature at once, and the ascendancy will generate 1 growth counter, which doubling season will turn into 2. If you put the counters all on different creatures, or on the same creature but one at a time, you can generate 10 growth counters. Simic A only adds 1 growth counter whenever 1 or more counters is put on a creature, not for each counter. So Doubling Season makes it better, but doesn't break it.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
As to the question at hand, I don't think we have enough data yet to show it is ubiquitous and oppressive enough to warrant a ban. It is certainly not the first alt-win card that can be broken with other broken things (or even just very strong synergies). Being an Enchantment makes it vulnerable to removal, though not as much as it would be if it were a creature. I don't really like alt-win cards like this personally, but I don't know that it is right to ban this one.
I stand corrected.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I am inclined to think that Felidar Sovereign is quite a bit more powerful in abstract since it doesn't really require any setup (and is a big fat blocker as well as "gain 4 life a turn" on most boards).
So my gut instinct is to say it'll probably fall in that same place, where mostly people don't dither with it, and there're far more consistent ways to win fast in Simic if that's what you're trying to do. I'm not sure losing to this would bother me if I allowed them to fill a board with critters or proliferate effects or whatever as required to make it go fast, or if I left it untouched for turn after turn and win slow.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
It's a touch better than Felidar just because it's easier to deal with creatures, and also easy to make people lose life. Still, there's a solid amount of enchantment removal that are auto includes, like Krosan Grip, Abriot Decay, Austere Command, etc. Also, preventing counters from being placed by killing creatures can work. Black and Red will struggle, but this is a multiplayer game and this card threatens the table, so black and red just need to rely on others to help. Also, Horobi. Horobi shuts it the **** down.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
The extra mana I got from Revel was literally the difference between me comboing off and me losing the game.
I've put it into Vorel of the Hull Clade.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I mean, if you ramp unto feldiar guardian on turn 3 or 4 and then untap and win, that takes zero cards other than a little ramp. In some games you can just cast it and then untap and win.
The difference is that the ascendancy actually requires cards to win with (you need at the very least 20 counters worth of creatures over several turns, or a multi-card combo of doubling season or vorel or whatever).
I'm sure it's fine but I don't think it's strictly stronger than sovereign (which I think of as kinda the benchmark for these nonsense win conditions).
Mechanized Production is also arguably stronger. Making 8 thopter tokens is pretty easy in the grand scheme of things. Possibly not even more significant deckbuilding constraints, since copying artifacts is pretty easy and a powerful thing to be doing on its own.
I mean, in a dedicated counter deck the card is gonna be quite powerful, but as good as Felidar or Test of Endurance in a lifegain deck or Mechanized in an artifact deck?
Remains to be seen I guess
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Felidar can randomly win, but it's a dice roll, and easy to stop. Even in a dedicated lifegain deck it usually just eats removal immediately. Even so, it's worth it there, at least IMO, for the occasional free wins. Simic A I think does more to advance your game plan even if it doesn't get the free win, and it's a bit harder to answer.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
This. Its a bad rate for a primary plan, but a decent rate for a backup. Sometimes you play a more reactive deck, and overpaying for an effect because it can be used at instant speed is par for the course. Sometimes, things go wrong and a reliable, repeatable counter generator is a good thing, especially if it can win the game under the right conditions. And sometimes, you get your board wiped and it helps you recover faster.
Its not awesome at doing all this, but it serves a +1/+1 counter centric plan better than Felidar serves a lifegain gameplan, because in order to gain 4 life with Felidar you have to put it at risk by attacking.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
You guys make a reasonable case but when I imagine trying to cut say, a good card, for this, I struggle. Never seen a +1/+1 counter deck struggling to get counters on its dudes y'know?
But appreciate the insightful comments.
Edit: not to say I'm claiming to be an authority or anything I just think this is one where i'd have to see it in practice a bunch before I could be sure
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
That reminds me of infect. The first nine points are inconsequential to an opponent if you're the only one playing infect, it's just the final point that kills players. Dumping 30 EOT mana into an enchantment and watching it eat removal is a horrible feeling and makes the card a wasted slot if you included 8t as an alternative wincon without any other synergy.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
... and now I want to respond to someone activating Shaman of Forgotten Ways by flashing in Kederekt Leviathan.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I think this is smacks the nail right on the head.
At the end of the day, it's still an enchantment that does nothing by itself, and requires at least 1 other card to be effective, and 3 cards total for it to actually get somewhat powerful.
It's probably not nearly ban-material. Also, having run a battle of wits+spawnsire of ulamog and a (giant) pile of ulamog, the infinite gyre alt-win "combo", it's a "gotcha" once, kinda funny the second time, and extremely boring the third time. I think pressure from others from player's play groups will make people stop trying to jam-tutor this into decks as a 'combo-finisher'.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
It's great at drawing out an immediate answer, but I've only won one game with it.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections