When we were taking nominations for the dream banlist poll this year. I recommended these three extra turn cards because I've been seeing them hurt more and more games in my local area. I realized they didn't have a thread in the rules discussion forum, hence this thread.
My biggest problem with extra turn cards like Time Warp, Capture of Jingzhou, and Temporal Manipulation is how players play them as part of their decks. I don't see people using them to take one single extra turn and get similar value to Relentless Assualt; instead what I always see is players using these cards to change the multiplayer game into being one of solitaire. Making themselves the only player still playing through excessive recursion and copying of these cards. Even if the extra turn chain does eventually break and they are forced to pass to the next player, the time mage is often so far ahead on board-state and resources that them being able to win the game becomes virtually guaranteed.
I think the main risk of extra turn cards in commander games can be summed up in the three Time Warps. Most of the modern ones self exile or shuffle back into the deck to prevent them being reused from the graveyard. It's probably more trouble then it's worth to try looping Stitch in Time or Final Fortune varients. Additionally, the few cards that exist as counterplay; Stranglehold and Ugin's Nexus don't really stop extra turns given blues ability to easily bounce them and then start the chain unimpeded.
What do you guys think? Should these time magic cards be banned or are they fine?
Generally I see them used as either an expensive explore or an infinite combo to win the game either of which I am fine with. The take a couple turns non-deterministically over 15 minutes to see if I can kill you is annoying but it's only ever come up a few times.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I think there is totally a usecase within an 100 card deck where you cast one of those with either some cards out to manipulate your library or whatever and move to your next card and your draw or whatever shows something more than you assumed you had to work with, which changes a kinda boring take an extra turn into something much longer and more involved.
If you use these to take infinite turns, its just a multicard combo at that point and therefore not problematic. Its not solitaire when someone is able to loop the extra turn cards, its a win, and the only reason for them to sit there for 15+ minutes executing is because the table is making them play it out. Obviously, there is a decent reason to do this, as its easier to screw up somewhere along the way with an extra turn combo than it is with most combos, but still.
If you aren't trying to combo, then the best case scenario is you chain 4-5 together. That's pretty sweet, and likely to win you the game. I can see how it is annoying, as unlike the infinite turn combos the table isn't simply relying on a misplay when waiting a half hour for the guy to take all his turns, they are legitimately seeing if he actually gets enough advantage from taking 5 extra turns to win. Everyone is still in it at this point, so there is no reason to concede, which briefly turns it into solitaire. This would fit the creates an undesirable game state criteria for banning. However, this scenario can be mitigated by the player in question simply playing faster and knowing his or her deck so that they take less time making decisions on their extra turns, speeding up play. Its also a scenario that shouldn't arise very often. It requires someone shoving a bunch of 5+ mana extra turn spells and some spell copying and recursion in their deck WITHOUT trying to combo with it, and drawing into enough of that to create a long enough chain of extra turns to be problematic. If this happens rarely with the deck, then its no big deal. If it happens all the time, the player is the problem. If they want to take a bunch of extra turns and regularly take 5-6 in a row, they should just graduate to making it an intentional combo and stop wasting everyone's time. If they are trying to combo and occasionally resort to stringing 5-6 together out of desperation, that's fine, because its not going to happen enough to be a problem. If they are just trying to take extra turns "fairly" and every once in awhile they hit a chain of 5-6, that's ok too because its rare. The worst case scenario for these just doesn't come up enough for a possible ban, and if its a problem in your playgroup that's outside the norm and you might want to talk to the player/s playing this way to see what they're trying to accomplish and if they are open to either streamlining the strategy or cutting back on it.
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Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
So, I actually don't have an issue with someone using it for an extra combat or to cantrip / play another land. The problem I actually have tends to come from some of the more expensive ones and or just the density of options of these cards at this point its very easy to chain them.
I had a game last week where someone was playing Rowan Kenrith / Will Kenrith. It was probably turn 6 or 7 and to that point in the game he had cast a Gilded Lotus on curve and cast his two commanders the turn after. I killed Will but felt kind of bad killing both of them so I let him keep Rowan. At this point he cast Time Stretch (which he claims he topdecked). From here he proceeds to ult Rowan and just hemerage value from other planeswalkers he plays. He then chains more extra turns together until he has 6 consecutive turns and fires off something dumb like 400 direct damage from cards he got to amass while chaining turns and walkers.
This all came off the back of a board state of literally Rowan Kenrith + Gilded Lotus + lands. My options in this game were to mercilessly try to kill him before he could go off, try to never let him have any board, or to run blue so I can countermagic. I am not saying I am really for or against extra turns but this game really kind of pissed me off because it didn't really feel like there was any interaction to be had when my options are to grind him to paste and expect to lose from nowhere.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Meh, there are a lot of ways to just win the game on the spot. You can't simply ban combo.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
This all came off the back of a board state of literally Rowan Kenrith + Gilded Lotus + lands. My options in this game were to mercilessly try to kill him before he could go off, try to never let him have any board, or to run blue so I can countermagic. I am not saying I am really for or against extra turns but this game really kind of pissed me off because it didn't really feel like there was any interaction to be had when my options are to grind him to paste and expect to lose from nowhere.
I don't see what the problem is other than that it sounds like you misplayed a bit. Sometimes the correct play is to brutally target the deck you're soft against and I don't think this is a consideration only for cEDH players. It may be considered anti-social to target one player out of the game, but it's likewise anti-social for someone to play solitaire. I would rather violate the social contract and win than let someone else violate the contract and win. Build socially, play competitively, right?
I think Time Warps are fine. Good cards, particularly with a dominant board, but playing good cards is one of my favorite things about EDH.
The issue in that game was that no one killed his walker, no one killed his 3 mana rock, and he was able to get off a 10CMC spell with no counters or interference. Time Stretch could have just as easily been Primal Surge or Tooth and Nail.
What you need is either:
1) House rules for how many extra turns that can be taken (yes even at a LGS)
2) Have a honor system
3) Ban every card that has the text "extra turn"
4)Stranglehold is allowed to be a commander
1-2 being the reasonable options, 3 is the nuclear option, 4 is the silly option that will never happen.
^ this tbh. You don't accidentally play solitaire with extra turn cards.
There was one point where I was running Time Warp, Crystal Shard, and Archaeomancer just because they were all good value, and they all happened to show up at the same time. Oops, infinite turns. I think there's been other times when I've had some sort of combo that I didn't intend during deck construction, just because singleton formats lend themselves to new discoveries of interactions. But the thing is, you can call the game right there, unless your opponents are stubborn to a fault. It's when you have every extra turn effect in your deck that you give your opponents that false hope, where you have four turns queued up but no way to chain them infinitely, when your opponents have to sit and wait to see if you can actually capitalize on them and turn it into a win... It's a lot like playing against storm decks. Sometimes it's just plausible that something could go wrong and you have to sit through it for that potential. And that's the most soul-crushing part of Magic, except the times when it pays off and you get that win from nowhere, which might be the most amazing part of Magic.
So, I actually don't have an issue with someone using it for an extra combat or to cantrip / play another land. The problem I actually have tends to come from some of the more expensive ones and or just the density of options of these cards at this point its very easy to chain them.
I had a game last week where someone was playing Rowan Kenrith / Will Kenrith. It was probably turn 6 or 7 and to that point in the game he had cast a Gilded Lotus on curve and cast his two commanders the turn after. I killed Will but felt kind of bad killing both of them so I let him keep Rowan. At this point he cast Time Stretch (which he claims he topdecked). From here he proceeds to ult Rowan and just hemerage value from other planeswalkers he plays. He then chains more extra turns together until he has 6 consecutive turns and fires off something dumb like 400 direct damage from cards he got to amass while chaining turns and walkers.
This all came off the back of a board state of literally Rowan Kenrith + Gilded Lotus + lands. My options in this game were to mercilessly try to kill him before he could go off, try to never let him have any board, or to run blue so I can countermagic. I am not saying I am really for or against extra turns but this game really kind of pissed me off because it didn't really feel like there was any interaction to be had when my options are to grind him to paste and expect to lose from nowhere.
I mean, he did have Will in the command zone and the ability to cast him, which means he had an always available way to copy extra turn cards, and Time Stretch alone is two extra turns. It sounds like the core of his plan was chaining extra turn spells until he had lethal damage. In the same colors, he could have cast Pestermite end of turn and slapped Splinter Twin on it turn 4.
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Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
this game really kind of pissed me off because it didn't really feel like there was any interaction to be had
This is my problem with extra turn decks. Narset Extra Turns Solitaire has got to be one of the most boring, least interactive things I have ever played against. Once it starts, if you don't have an instant speed answer, you just sit there, completely bored, until they eventually pull a win or eventually whiff, by which point, you just want to play a different game.
I don't think all extra turn cards need to be banned, not even just the unconditional non-exiling ones. This is a matter for the social contract. And it definitely deserves some next-game punishment because you never know what that type of player is going to do next.
the only deck I have that runs extra turns is my jhoira of the ghitu deck and even then there's only one card that will automatically give me more turns and that's Beacon of Tomorrows the other card is Plea for Power
The only extra turn spell I play is Sage of Hours, which is in one of 16 decks. I just don't like the 5 mana explore. But I imagine that if I was playing Brago, King Eternal, I would probably try to squeeze one in (that is, if I didn't find the non-exiling ones too expensive to buy).
I would compare them to something like Necrotic Sliver. If it was just a 6 mana vindicate, everyone would be fine with it. But you are playing it with Sun Titan, Gift of Immortality, Reveillark, etc, and it becomes multiple vindicates and possibly the end of the game.
I get it that anyone playing Time Warps is probably playing ways to recur it. That's just good value and deckbuilding. Even if it is not to combo out. Are you playing Planeswalkers? Well, time warp becomes super good. Why wouldn't you play it?
The card isn't broken, there is just good synergy. You wouldn't call Necrotic Sliver broken, would you?
There are non-blue ways to interact with this too. Graveyard hate, for example. Removing cards from libraries. I would prefer that they make more extra turn hate spells, and maybe we will get that one day to deal with the modern deck.
What you need is either:
1) House rules for how many extra turns that can be taken (yes even at a LGS)
2) Have a honor system
3) Ban every card that has the text "extra turn"
4)Stranglehold is allowed to be a commander
1-2 being the reasonable options, 3 is the nuclear option, 4 is the silly option that will never happen.
I don't think 1-2 are any more reasonable than 3 because you are assuming everyone in a single location has the same feeling on those things and could easily come to that decision.
Stranglehold is a good option in these cases as is the Graveyard Hate that is mentioned earlier. Dryad Militant is a card I love playing because certain decks just assume that they will be able to cast spells without thinking of being able to get them back later.
So, for what its worth I was playing a non combo / non mld / non stax or stasis Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant deck in the above example. My meta generally does not run infinite combos and what was executed against me never went infinite technically. This was the second game he had played this deck and the first time he never got set up before losing so I was not sure what the deck did until this game.
Again though, I am not saying that extra turns need to be banned or should not be. I was just kind of pointing out that they are very tedious and while I totally understand that if your norm is cEDH level play they are not an issue my issue with them comes from them being chained in a lesser cutthroat meta.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I think there is a larger discussion in that about slow play and time and solitaire that I am unsure if makes cards ban worthy but definitely gets under the skin of people playing against. I am also unsure if there is a way to rule against that in a format such as commander where things like Match time and those other considerations don't exist and all that does is the patience of your opponent and their desire to keep watching all this unfold.
I think there is a larger discussion in that about slow play and time and solitaire that I am unsure if makes cards ban worthy but definitely gets under the skin of people playing against. I am also unsure if there is a way to rule against that in a format such as commander where things like Match time and those other considerations don't exist and all that does is the patience of your opponent and their desire to keep watching all this unfold.
Some of the problem is that some tactics just require countermagic to play against them. Playing non interactive decks that are a big check if you have counter magic or not leads to a more competitive meta. I don't necessarily dislike playing against those decks but it feels *****ty when I am playing a fair mono white vs a counterspell or die type of deck.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Well it is one of the 3 of Counters/LD Disruption/Stax and maybe if you are playing a LOT of discard style effects.
I also don't feel generally like Time Warp style decks generally fall into that counter or lose mode because to keep them going will most likely require permanents to return them to hand or to amplify their effect or to produce enough mana to cast them quickly. I generally don't like playing against or making decks that live in that space but I can surely do it if the need arises.
I feel about TW and other similar effects that if they were going to be banned it would have happened by now. Nothing has really come out to change the game in terms of those cards that I can think of.
I feel about TW and other similar effects that if they were going to be banned it would have happened by now. Nothing has really come out to change the game in terms of those cards that I can think of.
I don't know Primeval Titan got banned sort of out of nowhere several years and reprints in. I am not advocating any which way on that card so much as pointing out that it was a ban that felt like it came out of nowhere WELL into the life of that card. Time magic is more unlikely to eat a ban though because of how many cards they encompass it would not just be one or two cards that we would be talking about banning. It is almost more likely that they would make a rule against consecutive turns rather than try to ban them all but I doubt either would happen to be totally honest.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
So, for what its worth I was playing a non combo / non mld / non stax or stasis Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant deck in the above example. My meta generally does not run infinite combos and what was executed against me never went infinite technically. This was the second game he had played this deck and the first time he never got set up before losing so I was not sure what the deck did until this game.
Again though, I am not saying that extra turns need to be banned or should not be. I was just kind of pointing out that they are very tedious and while I totally understand that if your norm is cEDH level play they are not an issue my issue with them comes from them being chained in a lesser cutthroat meta.
That ends up being an issue with the guy running the deck intentionally building it to be able to chain 6 extra turns together. If you see him play that deck over a period of time and see him occasionally cast those spells individually and once in awhile chain 2 or 3, then maybe he just got lucky to have it play out that way. When I see a guy shove a ton of extra turn spells into a deck whose commander copies sorceries or casts them for free, its safe to assume that chaining 5+ turns together with regularity is the plan.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
What you need is either:
1) House rules for how many extra turns that can be taken (yes even at a LGS)
2) Have a honor system
3) Ban every card that has the text "extra turn"
4)Stranglehold is allowed to be a commander
1-2 being the reasonable options, 3 is the nuclear option, 4 is the silly option that will never happen.
I don't think 1-2 are any more reasonable than 3 because you are assuming everyone in a single location has the same feeling on those things and could easily come to that decision.
Stranglehold is a good option in these cases as is the Graveyard Hate that is mentioned earlier. Dryad Militant is a card I love playing because certain decks just assume that they will be able to cast spells without thinking of being able to get them back later.
Have you visited one of the stores with a point system? Like you are assigned a number of points based on how competitive your deck is, such as how many infinite combos it has. These points are then used to match players up with similar amount of points. So you could have one or more entire tables worth of cutthroat players, yet also having tables where there are those who are running more casual decks and are playing with others of that competitive level.
Stranglehold is a very nice card and I advcoate for its use as well, but its just too inconsistent. Like if there was a commander with those abilities, it would be much more useful and reliable.
What you need is either:
1) House rules for how many extra turns that can be taken (yes even at a LGS)
2) Have a honor system
3) Ban every card that has the text "extra turn"
4)Stranglehold is allowed to be a commander
1-2 being the reasonable options, 3 is the nuclear option, 4 is the silly option that will never happen.
I don't think 1-2 are any more reasonable than 3 because you are assuming everyone in a single location has the same feeling on those things and could easily come to that decision.
Stranglehold is a good option in these cases as is the Graveyard Hate that is mentioned earlier. Dryad Militant is a card I love playing because certain decks just assume that they will be able to cast spells without thinking of being able to get them back later.
Have you visited one of the stores with a point system? Like you are assigned a number of points based on how competitive your deck is, such as how many infinite combos it has. These points are then used to match players up with similar amount of points. So you could have one or more entire tables worth of cutthroat players, yet also having tables where there are those who are running more casual decks and are playing with others of that competitive level.
Stranglehold is a very nice card and I advcoate for its use as well, but its just too inconsistent. Like if there was a commander with those abilities, it would be much more useful and reliable.
Never played with points and if I can help it I don't really plan on it. I don't think that the systems I have seen for that do anything to fix anything.
My biggest problem with extra turn cards like Time Warp, Capture of Jingzhou, and Temporal Manipulation is how players play them as part of their decks. I don't see people using them to take one single extra turn and get similar value to Relentless Assualt; instead what I always see is players using these cards to change the multiplayer game into being one of solitaire. Making themselves the only player still playing through excessive recursion and copying of these cards. Even if the extra turn chain does eventually break and they are forced to pass to the next player, the time mage is often so far ahead on board-state and resources that them being able to win the game becomes virtually guaranteed.
I think the main risk of extra turn cards in commander games can be summed up in the three Time Warps. Most of the modern ones self exile or shuffle back into the deck to prevent them being reused from the graveyard. It's probably more trouble then it's worth to try looping Stitch in Time or Final Fortune varients. Additionally, the few cards that exist as counterplay; Stranglehold and Ugin's Nexus don't really stop extra turns given blues ability to easily bounce them and then start the chain unimpeded.
What do you guys think? Should these time magic cards be banned or are they fine?
If you aren't trying to combo, then the best case scenario is you chain 4-5 together. That's pretty sweet, and likely to win you the game. I can see how it is annoying, as unlike the infinite turn combos the table isn't simply relying on a misplay when waiting a half hour for the guy to take all his turns, they are legitimately seeing if he actually gets enough advantage from taking 5 extra turns to win. Everyone is still in it at this point, so there is no reason to concede, which briefly turns it into solitaire. This would fit the creates an undesirable game state criteria for banning. However, this scenario can be mitigated by the player in question simply playing faster and knowing his or her deck so that they take less time making decisions on their extra turns, speeding up play. Its also a scenario that shouldn't arise very often. It requires someone shoving a bunch of 5+ mana extra turn spells and some spell copying and recursion in their deck WITHOUT trying to combo with it, and drawing into enough of that to create a long enough chain of extra turns to be problematic. If this happens rarely with the deck, then its no big deal. If it happens all the time, the player is the problem. If they want to take a bunch of extra turns and regularly take 5-6 in a row, they should just graduate to making it an intentional combo and stop wasting everyone's time. If they are trying to combo and occasionally resort to stringing 5-6 together out of desperation, that's fine, because its not going to happen enough to be a problem. If they are just trying to take extra turns "fairly" and every once in awhile they hit a chain of 5-6, that's ok too because its rare. The worst case scenario for these just doesn't come up enough for a possible ban, and if its a problem in your playgroup that's outside the norm and you might want to talk to the player/s playing this way to see what they're trying to accomplish and if they are open to either streamlining the strategy or cutting back on it.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I had a game last week where someone was playing Rowan Kenrith / Will Kenrith. It was probably turn 6 or 7 and to that point in the game he had cast a Gilded Lotus on curve and cast his two commanders the turn after. I killed Will but felt kind of bad killing both of them so I let him keep Rowan. At this point he cast Time Stretch (which he claims he topdecked). From here he proceeds to ult Rowan and just hemerage value from other planeswalkers he plays. He then chains more extra turns together until he has 6 consecutive turns and fires off something dumb like 400 direct damage from cards he got to amass while chaining turns and walkers.
This all came off the back of a board state of literally Rowan Kenrith + Gilded Lotus + lands. My options in this game were to mercilessly try to kill him before he could go off, try to never let him have any board, or to run blue so I can countermagic. I am not saying I am really for or against extra turns but this game really kind of pissed me off because it didn't really feel like there was any interaction to be had when my options are to grind him to paste and expect to lose from nowhere.
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I think Time Warps are fine. Good cards, particularly with a dominant board, but playing good cards is one of my favorite things about EDH.
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What you need is either:
1) House rules for how many extra turns that can be taken (yes even at a LGS)
2) Have a honor system
3) Ban every card that has the text "extra turn"
4)Stranglehold is allowed to be a commander
1-2 being the reasonable options, 3 is the nuclear option, 4 is the silly option that will never happen.
There was one point where I was running Time Warp, Crystal Shard, and Archaeomancer just because they were all good value, and they all happened to show up at the same time. Oops, infinite turns. I think there's been other times when I've had some sort of combo that I didn't intend during deck construction, just because singleton formats lend themselves to new discoveries of interactions. But the thing is, you can call the game right there, unless your opponents are stubborn to a fault. It's when you have every extra turn effect in your deck that you give your opponents that false hope, where you have four turns queued up but no way to chain them infinitely, when your opponents have to sit and wait to see if you can actually capitalize on them and turn it into a win... It's a lot like playing against storm decks. Sometimes it's just plausible that something could go wrong and you have to sit through it for that potential. And that's the most soul-crushing part of Magic, except the times when it pays off and you get that win from nowhere, which might be the most amazing part of Magic.
I mean, he did have Will in the command zone and the ability to cast him, which means he had an always available way to copy extra turn cards, and Time Stretch alone is two extra turns. It sounds like the core of his plan was chaining extra turn spells until he had lethal damage. In the same colors, he could have cast Pestermite end of turn and slapped Splinter Twin on it turn 4.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I don't think all extra turn cards need to be banned, not even just the unconditional non-exiling ones. This is a matter for the social contract. And it definitely deserves some next-game punishment because you never know what that type of player is going to do next.
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I would compare them to something like Necrotic Sliver. If it was just a 6 mana vindicate, everyone would be fine with it. But you are playing it with Sun Titan, Gift of Immortality, Reveillark, etc, and it becomes multiple vindicates and possibly the end of the game.
I get it that anyone playing Time Warps is probably playing ways to recur it. That's just good value and deckbuilding. Even if it is not to combo out. Are you playing Planeswalkers? Well, time warp becomes super good. Why wouldn't you play it?
The card isn't broken, there is just good synergy. You wouldn't call Necrotic Sliver broken, would you?
There are non-blue ways to interact with this too. Graveyard hate, for example. Removing cards from libraries. I would prefer that they make more extra turn hate spells, and maybe we will get that one day to deal with the modern deck.
So no, I do not think these should be banned.
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Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
I don't think 1-2 are any more reasonable than 3 because you are assuming everyone in a single location has the same feeling on those things and could easily come to that decision.
Stranglehold is a good option in these cases as is the Graveyard Hate that is mentioned earlier. Dryad Militant is a card I love playing because certain decks just assume that they will be able to cast spells without thinking of being able to get them back later.
Again though, I am not saying that extra turns need to be banned or should not be. I was just kind of pointing out that they are very tedious and while I totally understand that if your norm is cEDH level play they are not an issue my issue with them comes from them being chained in a lesser cutthroat meta.
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[Modern] Allies
Some of the problem is that some tactics just require countermagic to play against them. Playing non interactive decks that are a big check if you have counter magic or not leads to a more competitive meta. I don't necessarily dislike playing against those decks but it feels *****ty when I am playing a fair mono white vs a counterspell or die type of deck.
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[Modern] Allies
I also don't feel generally like Time Warp style decks generally fall into that counter or lose mode because to keep them going will most likely require permanents to return them to hand or to amplify their effect or to produce enough mana to cast them quickly. I generally don't like playing against or making decks that live in that space but I can surely do it if the need arises.
I feel about TW and other similar effects that if they were going to be banned it would have happened by now. Nothing has really come out to change the game in terms of those cards that I can think of.
I don't know Primeval Titan got banned sort of out of nowhere several years and reprints in. I am not advocating any which way on that card so much as pointing out that it was a ban that felt like it came out of nowhere WELL into the life of that card. Time magic is more unlikely to eat a ban though because of how many cards they encompass it would not just be one or two cards that we would be talking about banning. It is almost more likely that they would make a rule against consecutive turns rather than try to ban them all but I doubt either would happen to be totally honest.
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[Modern] Allies
That ends up being an issue with the guy running the deck intentionally building it to be able to chain 6 extra turns together. If you see him play that deck over a period of time and see him occasionally cast those spells individually and once in awhile chain 2 or 3, then maybe he just got lucky to have it play out that way. When I see a guy shove a ton of extra turn spells into a deck whose commander copies sorceries or casts them for free, its safe to assume that chaining 5+ turns together with regularity is the plan.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Stranglehold is a very nice card and I advcoate for its use as well, but its just too inconsistent. Like if there was a commander with those abilities, it would be much more useful and reliable.
Never played with points and if I can help it I don't really plan on it. I don't think that the systems I have seen for that do anything to fix anything.