Hi there, we're a group of friends fed up with the shady behavior and the lack of care Wizards official banlist for Multiplayer EDH has towards us.
We've spent some time coming up with a banlist that's open for debate with the objective of keeping competitive decks relevant but removing degenerate combos from the meta. Please, feel free to comment and suggest new additions/retractions, differently from Multiplayer/Duel we're open for free debate.
Addendum: All Ante, Conspiracy and Silver Borded cards are also banned from both use in decks as well as use as commanders
By Wii Banlist the following cards are banned from used as part of a deck:
Please let us know your opinion on the banlist, and if you think it is any good (or at least better than the alternatives) then please take in the effort of trying to adapt your decks.
In all your time working on this ban list did you ever take the time to learn who runs Commander or why they tailored their ban list the way they did? (Spoiler alert: it's not Wizards and it's not for competitive play)
I'm aware it isn't Wizards, but the game is theirs isn't it? If they really cared about EDH then they would have made sure the people administrating the Multiplayer Banlist (Which is official, I'd like to add) had taken proper care towards their list.
Secondly, what is "it's not for competitive play" supposed to mean? People resort to having games be named "Casual please" in Magic Online, and often times people get kicked out by playgroups for running turn 2 wins and similar, how is any of that "casual"?
Cheers mate.
As an addendum I'd like to add that competitive play is completely achievable within our banlist, we just made sure to remove cards that break the game (something that neither Duel nor Multiplayer has achieved)
As an addendum I'd like to add that competitive play is completely achievable within our banlist, we just made sure to remove cards that break the game (something that neither Duel nor Multiplayer has achieved)
Quoting stuff here
Quote from Sheldon
A few things you should know about the Banned List:
1. We can't ban every card someone finds offensive because the list would be too large.
1a. Banning Card B because Card A is already on the list isn't a slippery slope, it's an impending avalanche.
2. There is no 100% solution because card evaluation is subjective. Ergo, there will never be a player-base consensus list. In other words, no matter what the list looks like, there will be complainers.
3. "Power level" in and of itself is subjective, and not necessarily the only criteria for banning.
4. We will never publish an objective flowchart on how cards get banned because 1) it's close to impossible and 2) a 0% win for us. We'll endeavor to explain why a card gets banned based on which criteria we've used, to wit:
5. The two major things that will get a card banned are 1) it creates too much mana too early in the game (Tolarian Academy) and 2) it makes for bad games even when players aren't trying to abuse it (Biorhythm).
5a. Individuals will interpret those two criteria differently.
6. Creating a "balanced" tournament environment is not a factor.
7. 1v1 play is not a factor.
and
The Banned List for Commander is designed not to balance competitive play, but to help shape in the minds of its fans the vision held by its founders and Rules Committee. That vision is to create variable, interactive, and epic multiplayer games where memories are made, to foster the social nature of the format, and to underscore that competition is not the format’s primary goal. This is summarized as “Create games that everyone will love to remember, not the ones you'd like to forget.”
A player who wishes to break the format will find many tools available to them, and taking those tools away means they move onto the next tool. Taking sufficient cards away from them to achieve a semblance of balance simply removes many, many cards from the pool that casual players enjoy and diminishes the games the format is intended for. Instead, Commander seeks to shape the mindset of the game before players start building decks, pointing them in the direction of thinking socially before they choose their first card. Infusing the deck construction approach with these philosophies is important; we want a social environment where an individual doesn't want to (or, at very least, is discouraged from trying to) break the format.
It is easier to build decks designed to maximize fun than it is to pull punches while playing the game. The Banned List is a part of defining that approach.
The Banned List contains the worst of the offenders for games being played in the spirit described above, those which to us are obvious choices in steering the format towards the general style of games we’d like to promote. While we’ve tried to make it fairly objective, there will always be a measure of subjectivity since different people evaluate cards and their impacts differently. We’d like the Banned List to be as small as possible to make it easily understandable for the players, meaning we’re not going to ban every card that someone finds unpleasant to play against. It is not a problem that some cards are strong.
There are several criteria which carry weight in Rules Committee discussions on individual cards:
* Interacts Poorly With the Structure of Commander. Commander introduces specific structural differences to the game of Magic (notably singleton decks, color restrictions in deckbuilding, and the existence of a Commander). Magic cards not designed with Commander in mind sometimes interact with those elements in ways that change the effective functionality of the card. Cards that have moved too far (in a potentially problematic direction) from their original intent due to this mismatch are candidates for banning. This criterion also includes legendary creatures that are problematic if always available.
* Creates Undesirable Game States. Losing is not an undesirable game state. However, a game in which one or more players, playing comparable casual decks, have minimal participation in the game is something which players should be steered away from. Warning signs include massive overall resource imbalance, early-game cards that lock players out, and cards with limited function other than to win the game out of nowhere.
* Problematic Casual Omnipresence. Some cards are so powerful that they become must-includes in decks that can run them and have a strongly negative impact on the games in which they appear, even when not built to optimize their effect. This does not include cards which are part of a specifc two-card combination - there are too many of those available in the format to usefully preclude - but may include cards which have numerous combinations with other commonly-played cards.
* Produces Too Much Mana Too Quickly. Commander is a format devoted to splashy spells and epic plays, but they need to happen at appropriate times. Some acceleration is acceptable, but plays which are epic on turn ten are undesirable on turn three, so we rein in cards capable of generating a lot of mana early given the correct circumstances.
* Creates a Perceived High Barrier to Entry. Commander is a socially welcoming format with a vast cardpool. These two traits clash when it comes to certain early Magic cards, even if they would possibly be acceptable in their game play. It's not enough that the card is simply expensive. It must also be something that would be near-universally played if available and contribute to a perception that the format is only for the Vintage audience.
Meeting one (or more) criteria on the banlist is not a guarantee of a ban. Some cards fit the description, but either aren't problematic enough to justify a ban, are largely eschewed by the casual community, or possess other redeeming factors. Cards are evaluated by their general use, not simply their worst-case scenario. Similar cards may have just enough difference to put them on opposite sides of the line.
Additionally, other Commander styles (such as 1v1, Duel Commander, or more competitively-oriented groups) are not taken into consideration when evaluating how problematic a card is. Groups who seek a different experience are encouraged to discuss local changes to optimize their play experience. This Banned List is for players who are looking for the traditional Commander experience when they're not interacting with their local social groups.
I'm not even going to go hunt down the number of times they have said that MTGO doesn't factor much into the ban list.
How is any of that relevant? I'm proposing a banlist which I propose to be better than what we have currently, do you disagree in any particular instance?
If you're offended by the name, then I shall let it be known that this is just a cheeky joke, not meant to be taken seriously.
What you want is for Wizards to make a variant designed for competitive play. If you use the search feature on this forum you will find a number of users who have attempted to make competitive ban lists.
How is any of that relevant? I'm proposing a banlist which I propose to be better than what we have currently, do you disagree in any particular instance?
What you're not understanding or refusing to accept is that the ban list isn't designed for the way in which you want to play. Saying you list is better is like, just your opinion, man.
If you're offended by the name, then I shall let it be known that this is just a cheeky joke, not meant to be taken seriously.
How is any of that relevant? I'm proposing a banlist which I propose to be better than what we have currently, do you disagree in any particular instance?
If you're offended by the name, then I shall let it be known that this is just a cheeky joke, not meant to be taken seriously.
You do know that Sheldon is part of the RC and the big quote is the Official Banned List and Format Philosophy Document.
As for your list...i'll need to be on my desktop to type up my issues.
In a typical game cards denoted by + tend to put a target on, in which the other players will either gang up or hamper you out right in some manner, I myself run Oloro( really need to post the deck some time). Or in the case of Mana Crypt will kill you unless you win the game or have some other means of not caring about the life loss (I've seen this happened) Don't know why that tutor is included but the others aren't or i didn't see them.
Cards denoted by = are normally handled by the social group, I have access to all of them but I chose not to run them mainly because I don't have a way to bounce back from the wipes and Markov, that's another one handled by the social aspect.
As for Hermit, I've only seen one player do the deck, which he ran only one time and then took it apart because it just wasn't that fun and he only put it together because of the combo. so once again a player issue.
What you're not understanding or refusing to accept is that the ban list isn't designed for the way in which you want to play.
Our banlist isn't designed for competitive play either, "a banlist that's open for debate with the objective of keeping competitive decks relevant but removing degenerate combos from the meta", that is an error from my part, our banlist surely isn't designed for competitive play either, in fact, one could argue it is focused for casual players, what we want is to make sure people have as much fun as possible, and we're doing this by removing degenerate cards that ruin the fun in Multiplayer Games. In Magic Online people have resorted to writing "Casual only" or "No Infinite Combos" in their game names in order to escape said degenerate gameplay.
What you're not understanding or refusing to accept is that the ban list isn't designed for the way in which you want to play.
in fact, one could argue it is focused for casual players, what we want is to make sure people have as much fun as possible, and we're doing this by removing degenerate cards that ruin the fun in Multiplayer Games
So, why not ban Armageddon and Ravages of War? A lot of people find mass LD unfun. And, dear Lord, why are Worldfire and Sway of the Stars not banned? Are you really trying to say that Obliterate and Decree of Annihilation are "unfun" but worse versions of those are just fine? That seems contradictory at best.
In any case, you do not seem to be trying to build a banlist to make it better for "casuals". You are trying to build one that is better for *you*. Which is fine, but your list (both inclusions and exclusions) just show that you don't like tutors or that someone (somehow) won with Titania or Tasigur in a way you didn't like. This is not a list that is meant for everyone. I personally would not play EDH if this was the list in place.
EDIT: I also agree with cryogen that the title is flaming Wizards which is odd since you said you realize Wizards has no say in the format.
Both Sol Ring, Serra Ascendant and Mana Crypt are first turn plays that get on the table and are subject to RNG turn order, if you drop a SR/MC/SA on one, other players might not even have a land on the to counter/remove it, putting you ahead over other players straight away, not even to mention to unpleasant situation when more than one player has one or more of the cards early on and the one-two players that don't just get pushed out of the game straight away. And your case about mana crypt is true, but unlikely, how often does mana crypt early on do more harm than good? Even in situations were the player got lost hit by their own MC, it still did more help in the game than lost and the player would've lost regardless of having it or not.
And regarding your last two points, yes, players tend to not play with some of the broken cards in question (if that's what you meant with the "="s, forgive me if I got it wrong), but why take the risk? More often than not that will just lead to fights or uncomfortable situations (usually if you're playing with strangers).
"enforces" isn't a fair word to describe what we want, we want to play the game have fun, whilst allowing competitive decks to flourish for the players that like that side of things. No one's being forced to do follow this banlist, it's a proposal, I'm not going to confiscate your deck.
I don't like your list, I don't like your idea for this list.
Some of these inclusions are so random and unwarranted, it just goes to show that you are making a list to mop up decks you frequently encounter. For every "degenerate" card on this list, I can name you 3 others that go infinite.
With a card pool as large as Commander, you are never going to get rid of infinite combos or degenerate cards. Never.
The banlist isn't about stopping combo players from comboing, it is about taking out cards that are problematic and pervasive in the format. Cards like Griselbrand, which are too out of control in a 40-life format, and cards like Sylvan Primordial, which go into every green deck and are too powerful by themselves.
If you want to play commander, but don't want infinite combos, then you need to come to a consensus with the players you play with. I don't think it works though.
Because, I can go infinite with Dakmoor Salvage and Skirge Familiar in the Gitrog Monster, and if you are looking to nuke all combos then you have to include these cards on your list.
If your concern is very fast infinite combos, your list makes even less sense. There's a slew of very fast, abusive combos it doesn't even attempt to address, and the Banned as Commander section especially looks much more like a meta-specific "Commanders We Got Combo Wrecked By" list than a thorough or effective ban on commanders that enable or power fast combo. Kokusho is on there, for crying out loud. If you're getting nuked out Turn 2-4 by that deck, something has already gone horribly wrong before the start of the game, most likely a catastrophic difference in power level and game intent between different players in the pod.
This list is also directed at Multiplayer games, Kokusho is there because of his sheer value during the late stages, but I agree that it's position should be questioned, again, this banlist is meant to be openly discussed.
If you want casual, in the sense a catch-all (or almost all) to combo and any degenerate plays just "keyword" your banlist. IMO fast mana and tutors are the source of most degeneracy so if you cut them out plus stupid effects like time magic, mass discard (not wheels), mass LD, you may have got a format that suits you.
We've done all of that basically, albeit Idyllic tutor is 3-mana so it's your opponent's fault for not being able to have an answer for whatever you get.
I don't think we should ban all tutors, I see no problem with combos, what we dislike is combo'ing on turn 2, 3, 4, etc. Combo is a fair archetype.
I've never seen Rune Tail in my life, and I can't see an environment where it is broken. Unless the rest of the meta is BR aggro.
Titania is pretty cool, and I have seen combos involving her, but she is far from broken. She makes a bunch of 5/3s. If you go infinite with her, it's because of other cards.
Strip mine is a great effect, but doesn't go infinite unless you have a way to infinitely recur it, in which case Strip Mine is not the problem, something else is. It's so far from being too powerful... I mean, it's a 1 for 1 trade in a multiplayer game. It's a good control card, but if it's being used on your basics then Strip Mine is not the issue.
Birthing Pod - I don't even see this played in competitive decks any more. It's a fun, value card, which forces people to know their decks super well. It can only be activated as a sorcery, and it is so easy to destroy.
I don't want to go through your whole list, but really, I don't agree with your idea for your banlist and you are defending it really poorly.
All I'm trying to tell you is that if people want to win on turn 3, they will. If you want to remove all the 1 and 2 mana tutors, go for it. Could be a very fun environment. If you want to take out specific combos in your meta, do it - but don't expect the rest of us to go along with it. I see Mystical Tutor but not Enlightened tutor in your list. You have to know people will complain about that!
Just because you take out the best tutors and weaken the combo decks, doesn't mean you get rid of the quick combo decks. They just get more expensive tutors, or they play card draw combos.
There are cards I dislike in EDH. We argue about whether they should be specifically banned. We talk about our experiences playing these cards.
You can't just make a list and think people will like it. Like, why is Scroll Rack on the list?
But it's more than the cards on the list. Your approach needs rethinking. You want to put a crimp in turn 3 combos? Adjust your deck to beat them.
When people make games online and they say "no degenerate combos" or whatever, it isn't about banning certain types of decks - it is about trying to find like-minded players. That is the key. If you play with players who don't want to win at all costs, then you can have a non-degenerate game. Some people like playing turn 3 combo metas. A lot of people. If you take away their toys, they will switch to turn 4 metas - this doesn't fix your problem. Not unless you want thousands of cards on your banlist.
This list doesn't make a lot of sense. You've banned some additional cards that really aren't that strong, missed others that are similar but better, and missed some entirely that are on the official list for a very good reason. Decree of Annihilation but no Ruination or other mass land destruction? Doomsday is a limited, slow tutor with a serious downside. It's high risk, high reward - if someone nerfs you before you enable your win con, that's game for you. It really does not deserve the ban. Sway of the Stars and Worldfire - neither made the list, despite being able to end the game on the spot?
I mean I think I get where you're going with it, but it's an arbitrary line in the sand - and it's a wiggly line too. The territory you're trying to cover gets into such grey area that you'll never get blanket coverage of whats acceptable and what isn't. This is how the Rules Committee has succeeded in my mind; they allow the players to dictate the finer details of what's acceptable to them with house rules as required, and really only police whats banned and what isn't with a minimal touch. I think every one of them probably realises that it's a slippery slope. Once you start banning for one instance you're banning for another, and all of a sudden the common archetypes are Gray Ogre and Runeclaw Bear tribal. That might be an exaggeration, but the point remains.
I get how it would be hard to dictate a meta online, but this list doesn't seem to hit the marks you want it to, to my mind. Sorry for the negative feedback.
We've spent some time coming up with a banlist that's open for debate with the objective of keeping competitive decks relevant but removing degenerate combos from the meta. Please, feel free to comment and suggest new additions/retractions, differently from Multiplayer/Duel we're open for free debate.
Addendum: All Ante, Conspiracy and Silver Borded cards are also banned from both use in decks as well as use as commanders
By Wii Banlist the following cards are banned from used as part of a deck:
Ancestral Recall
Chaos Orb
Black Lotus
Channel
Dig Through Time
Falling Star
Fastbond
Burgeoning
Balance
Gaea's Cradle
Sol Ring
Food Chain
Mana Crypt
Hermit Druid
Gifts Ungiven
Mana Vault
Mishra's Workshop
Karakas
Library of Alexandria
Mox Emerald
Mox Jet
Mox Pearl
Mox Ruby
Mox Sapphire
Natural Order
Time Vault
Oath of Druids
Protean Hulk
Shahrazad
Tolarian Academy
The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Bazaar of Baghdad
Recurring Nightmare
Doomsday
Serra Ascendant
Survival of the Fittest
Tinker
Sylvan Primordial
Yawgmoth's Bargain
Prophet of Kruphix
Contamination
Primeval Titan
Limited Resources
Painter's Servant
Sundering Titan
Upheaval
Imperial Seal
Treasure Cruise
Vampiric Tutor
Mystical Tutor
Loyal Retainers
Demonic Consultation
Birthing Pod
Sorin Markov
Transmute Artifact
Decree of Annihilation
Obliterate
Mind Over Matter
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Yawgmoth's Will
Scroll Rack
Coalition Victory
Tainted Pact
Strip Mine
Biorhythm
And the following cards are being banned from being used as your commander:
Braids, Cabal Minion
Breya, Etherium Shaper
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
Griselbrand
Kokusho, the Evening Star
Leovold, Emissary of Trest
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant
Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Titania, Protector of Argoth
Zur the Enchanter
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Sharuum the Hegemon
Please let us know your opinion on the banlist, and if you think it is any good (or at least better than the alternatives) then please take in the effort of trying to adapt your decks.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Secondly, what is "it's not for competitive play" supposed to mean? People resort to having games be named "Casual please" in Magic Online, and often times people get kicked out by playgroups for running turn 2 wins and similar, how is any of that "casual"?
Cheers mate.
As an addendum I'd like to add that competitive play is completely achievable within our banlist, we just made sure to remove cards that break the game (something that neither Duel nor Multiplayer has achieved)
Quoting stuff here
and
I'm not even going to go hunt down the number of times they have said that MTGO doesn't factor much into the ban list.
If you're offended by the name, then I shall let it be known that this is just a cheeky joke, not meant to be taken seriously.
What you want is for Wizards to make a variant designed for competitive play. If you use the search feature on this forum you will find a number of users who have attempted to make competitive ban lists.
Edit: nathed.
What you're not understanding or refusing to accept is that the ban list isn't designed for the way in which you want to play. Saying you list is better is like, just your opinion, man.
It's still flaming.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
You do know that Sheldon is part of the RC and the big quote is the Official Banned List and Format Philosophy Document.
As for your list...i'll need to be on my desktop to type up my issues.
EDIT:
Sol Ring+
Mana Crypt+
Hermit Druid*
Serra Ascendant+
Mystical Tutor
Sorin Markov-
Decree of Annihilation=
Obliterate=
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic+
[/quote]
In a typical game cards denoted by + tend to put a target on, in which the other players will either gang up or hamper you out right in some manner, I myself run Oloro( really need to post the deck some time). Or in the case of Mana Crypt will kill you unless you win the game or have some other means of not caring about the life loss (I've seen this happened) Don't know why that tutor is included but the others aren't or i didn't see them.
Cards denoted by = are normally handled by the social group, I have access to all of them but I chose not to run them mainly because I don't have a way to bounce back from the wipes and Markov, that's another one handled by the social aspect.
As for Hermit, I've only seen one player do the deck, which he ran only one time and then took it apart because it just wasn't that fun and he only put it together because of the combo. so once again a player issue.
Our banlist isn't designed for competitive play either, "a banlist that's open for debate with the objective of keeping competitive decks relevant but removing degenerate combos from the meta", that is an error from my part, our banlist surely isn't designed for competitive play either, in fact, one could argue it is focused for casual players, what we want is to make sure people have as much fun as possible, and we're doing this by removing degenerate cards that ruin the fun in Multiplayer Games. In Magic Online people have resorted to writing "Casual only" or "No Infinite Combos" in their game names in order to escape said degenerate gameplay.
In any case, you do not seem to be trying to build a banlist to make it better for "casuals". You are trying to build one that is better for *you*. Which is fine, but your list (both inclusions and exclusions) just show that you don't like tutors or that someone (somehow) won with Titania or Tasigur in a way you didn't like. This is not a list that is meant for everyone. I personally would not play EDH if this was the list in place.
EDIT: I also agree with cryogen that the title is flaming Wizards which is odd since you said you realize Wizards has no say in the format.
And regarding your last two points, yes, players tend to not play with some of the broken cards in question (if that's what you meant with the "="s, forgive me if I got it wrong), but why take the risk? More often than not that will just lead to fights or uncomfortable situations (usually if you're playing with strangers).
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
Some of these inclusions are so random and unwarranted, it just goes to show that you are making a list to mop up decks you frequently encounter. For every "degenerate" card on this list, I can name you 3 others that go infinite.
With a card pool as large as Commander, you are never going to get rid of infinite combos or degenerate cards. Never.
The banlist isn't about stopping combo players from comboing, it is about taking out cards that are problematic and pervasive in the format. Cards like Griselbrand, which are too out of control in a 40-life format, and cards like Sylvan Primordial, which go into every green deck and are too powerful by themselves.
If you want to play commander, but don't want infinite combos, then you need to come to a consensus with the players you play with. I don't think it works though.
Because, I can go infinite with Dakmoor Salvage and Skirge Familiar in the Gitrog Monster, and if you are looking to nuke all combos then you have to include these cards on your list.
Because, I can go infinite with Rakdos, Lord of Riots, Nettle Drone and Ancestral statue.
There are more combos than you can hope to control. Deal with it.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Most Used (of many dozens) EDH Decks:
Brago, King Eternal - Stax
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - Aggro Combo
Wort, the Raidmother - Spellslinger Swarm Control
Animar, Soul of Elements - Tempo Combo
Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder - Spellslinger
Exodia the Forbidden One:
Oona, Queen of the Fae - Combowins.dec
Yeah...I don't think anyone outside of your group is going to follow this list
For my playgroup we ban non-permanent tutors; AKA Demonic Tutor, Idyllic Tutor, etc. Basically any sorcery and instant card that says "search your library". We however do allow land searching. Rampant Growth, Hour of Promise, Gift of Estates, etc. And no you can't play Demonic Tutor to get lands. Play Sylvan Scrying instead.
The only permanent tutor we banned (since we came up with this agreement 6-7yrs ago) was Survival of the Fittest. It's just too good, too efficient.
People argue black becomes nerfed. Nope. Play Rune-Scarred Demon, Sidisi, Expedition Map, etc. They still can tutor, just less efficiently.
As for fast mana, The usual suspects Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault.
Of course there're a few other things we tend not to play, but I'll just leave this for now as a basis.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I don't think we should ban all tutors, I see no problem with combos, what we dislike is combo'ing on turn 2, 3, 4, etc. Combo is a fair archetype.
That sure explains the inclusion of Rune Tail and Titania.
Strip mine and Birthing Pod go infinite as soon as you play them.
I've never seen Rune Tail in my life, and I can't see an environment where it is broken. Unless the rest of the meta is BR aggro.
Titania is pretty cool, and I have seen combos involving her, but she is far from broken. She makes a bunch of 5/3s. If you go infinite with her, it's because of other cards.
Strip mine is a great effect, but doesn't go infinite unless you have a way to infinitely recur it, in which case Strip Mine is not the problem, something else is. It's so far from being too powerful... I mean, it's a 1 for 1 trade in a multiplayer game. It's a good control card, but if it's being used on your basics then Strip Mine is not the issue.
Birthing Pod - I don't even see this played in competitive decks any more. It's a fun, value card, which forces people to know their decks super well. It can only be activated as a sorcery, and it is so easy to destroy.
I don't want to go through your whole list, but really, I don't agree with your idea for your banlist and you are defending it really poorly.
All I'm trying to tell you is that if people want to win on turn 3, they will. If you want to remove all the 1 and 2 mana tutors, go for it. Could be a very fun environment. If you want to take out specific combos in your meta, do it - but don't expect the rest of us to go along with it. I see Mystical Tutor but not Enlightened tutor in your list. You have to know people will complain about that!
Just because you take out the best tutors and weaken the combo decks, doesn't mean you get rid of the quick combo decks. They just get more expensive tutors, or they play card draw combos.
There are cards I dislike in EDH. We argue about whether they should be specifically banned. We talk about our experiences playing these cards.
You can't just make a list and think people will like it. Like, why is Scroll Rack on the list?
But it's more than the cards on the list. Your approach needs rethinking. You want to put a crimp in turn 3 combos? Adjust your deck to beat them.
When people make games online and they say "no degenerate combos" or whatever, it isn't about banning certain types of decks - it is about trying to find like-minded players. That is the key. If you play with players who don't want to win at all costs, then you can have a non-degenerate game. Some people like playing turn 3 combo metas. A lot of people. If you take away their toys, they will switch to turn 4 metas - this doesn't fix your problem. Not unless you want thousands of cards on your banlist.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Decree of Annihilation but no Ruination or other mass land destruction?
Doomsday is a limited, slow tutor with a serious downside. It's high risk, high reward - if someone nerfs you before you enable your win con, that's game for you. It really does not deserve the ban.
Sway of the Stars and Worldfire - neither made the list, despite being able to end the game on the spot?
Rune-Tail, Kitsune Ascendant - I don't think I've ever seen it used before. It's a preschool version of Avacyn, Angel of Hope - which isn't on your banlist.
I mean I think I get where you're going with it, but it's an arbitrary line in the sand - and it's a wiggly line too. The territory you're trying to cover gets into such grey area that you'll never get blanket coverage of whats acceptable and what isn't. This is how the Rules Committee has succeeded in my mind; they allow the players to dictate the finer details of what's acceptable to them with house rules as required, and really only police whats banned and what isn't with a minimal touch. I think every one of them probably realises that it's a slippery slope. Once you start banning for one instance you're banning for another, and all of a sudden the common archetypes are Gray Ogre and Runeclaw Bear tribal. That might be an exaggeration, but the point remains.
I get how it would be hard to dictate a meta online, but this list doesn't seem to hit the marks you want it to, to my mind. Sorry for the negative feedback.