As an actual player on MTGO everybody has been very positive about the changes even for multiplayer. Guess what? People are sick of Sol Ring and Mana Crypts dominating early play. Games just got better.
Cards like Upheaval and Sway of the Stars become much worse without Sol Ring/Mana Crypt/Mana Vault. Actually pulling off advantage requires a major setup, of which there are other combos that are much easier to do.
As an actual player on MTGO everybody has been very positive about the changes even for multiplayer. Guess what? People are sick of Sol Ring and Mana Crypts dominating early play. Games just got better.
Cards like Upheaval and Sway of the Stars become much worse without Sol Ring/Mana Crypt/Mana Vault. Actually pulling off advantage requires a major setup, of which there are other combos that are much easier to do.
Oh I'm all for nuking fast mana. But I think it is a huge disservice to the multiplayer community (and a middle finger to the RC) for not taking the effort to make a multiplayer ban list. Cards like Sylvan Primordial and Prophet of Kruphix were banned for good reason. To me, their list screams "come play your Spike games here because who cares about your opponents having fun". And hey, if that's the route they took then so be it, but it isn't the po8nt of EDH and it hurts the community when the world's collide.
What makes this really interesting is how this will affect the C17 set. Do they start building precon decks to be legal in both paper and online? Do they not bring C17 to MTGO?
I imagine it'll be the same as the other commander releases. Not available on MTGO with the new cards available a different way later.
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
My main issue with this is WOTC thinking they will manage this format.
They should have kept the official RC ban list for multiplayer. They could have officially recognized the French banlist for 1v1. They should be keeping commander rules and banlists with the community. If they were to take power from the RC for paper magic, that would be really frustrating.
Also, they banned Moat. MOAT. This is not a ban-list, it's a joke.
As an actual player on MTGO everybody has been very positive about the changes even for multiplayer. Guess what? People are sick of Sol Ring and Mana Crypts dominating early play. Games just got better.
Cards like Upheaval and Sway of the Stars become much worse without Sol Ring/Mana Crypt/Mana Vault. Actually pulling off advantage requires a major setup, of which there are other combos that are much easier to do.
You don't personally speak for every online player, no matter how much you claim to. I haven't seen this supposed positive reaction. At best, it's been mixed, with people as upset with crap like Leovold and Prime Time as happy with fast mana being nuked.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
My understanding is that they want to cater to 1v1 for MTGO. After all, 1v1 is more conducive to leagues and therefore pay-for queues. Hence shifting the commander banlist from Multiplayer centric to 1v1 centric. It would seem that multiplayer EDH in the context of MTGO is just not a priority for them. Perhaps they see the number of players as being too small to support. Therefore, they are likely just willing to accept them as collateral damage if that means being able to bolster 1v1 popularity on MTGO.
If that's right, it seems awfully short sighted. I tend to be dubious of businesses decisions which alienate portions of a customer base. Especially, considering it seems wholly unnecessary in this case. It should be relatively simple and easy to add a "Duel Commander" format with a separate ban list. The argument about consistency between 1v1 and multiplayer to avoid confusion ignores the fact that they are already doing that in a broader sense between paper and MTGO.
Ding ding ding. WotC doesn't want to support anything online that they can't run tournaments for online. It's pure greed. With this move, freeform is now the only purely casual format. Everything is centered on leagues and events. The only thing that has saved Momir basic at this point is that they can occasionally run an event for it.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Ding ding ding. WotC doesn't want to support anything online that they can't run tournaments for online. It's pure greed. With this move, freeform is now the only purely casual format. Everything is centered on leagues and events. The only thing that has saved Momir basic at this point is that they can occasionally run an event for it.
I would be okay with that, but they should have done it in a way that doesn't nerf online Multiplayer Commander or undermine paper Multiplayer Commander. Online Multiplayer and Online Paper Commander should have the same banned list and rules. Period. All the work that the RC does to keep a banned list that is small and easy to understand is potentially undone by this new announcement.
And as for the new Online 1v1 Commander format, I like that they have gone back to 30 life since that tilts tings away from aggro being so dominant, but there is still a big difference between the new 1v1 list and the Duel Commander list:
There is a definite break from Online 1v1 vs. Duel Commander in what constitutes being too good as a Commander, but the essence of most of this is based on the format life total changing back to 30. Marath, Oloro, and to a certain extent Tasigur will all be huge metagame forces in keeping aggro pinned down, as each was banned from duel commander for basically squeezing aggro out of the metagame. The added bans seem to be skewed towards reigning in prison decks (Arcum and Braids) or commanders that generate tons of CA (Griselbanned and Yisan).
Okay, so I can see unbanning Necrotic Ooze, but the other unbans don't make any sense to me. If you want to eliminate fast mana then you need to eliminate it, and unbanning something like Grim Monlith makes even less sense given everything that it combos with the generate infinite mana. The Strip Mine unbanning also seems antithetical to their stated goal.
As far as the bans go, Moat strikes me as particularly strange.
Anyway, the one good thing to come out of this is that WotC will have lots of tournament data to go by for which to issue corrections to this banned list once it goes live and they see the mistakes they've made. I don't plan on participating in this experiment, so good luck to those who wade into those waters.
Plans have changed. They're now planning on splitting off a separate 1v1 format with this banlist while keeping a multiplayer banlist that follows the RC. Source
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Plans have changed. They're now planning on splitting off a separate 1v1 format with this banlist while keeping a multiplayer banlist that follows the RC. Source
Its a good move. I might be reading too much into this but its possible that their goal is to take over the 1v1 commander area with a banned list of their own creation. Its possible that 1v1 commander could take place of legacy in some ways because of the fact that its less demanding on the limited resources that belong to legacy.
I am probably reading too much into that but its a good direction that wizards could diversify that is currently not being exploited to its fullest because of the lack of official large scale tournaments.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Holy *****, this is actually the best possible solution and I'm eating crow over my doubts they'd do this. Thank God.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Plans have changed. They're now planning on splitting off a separate 1v1 format with this banlist while keeping a multiplayer banlist that follows the RC. Source
Yeah, I was coming here to post this very thing. Good decision, one we advocated.
I kinda feel bad for the 1v1 community in all of this. I know many people are unhappy with the current environment (especially after the change from 30 to 20 life and the general takeover of the format by Partner commanders) and that the community was already split with the creation of Leviathan, but this seems like the nail in the coffin for French Duel Commander. I suspect that it won't be long until the default paper 1v1 format becomes the WotC online duel commander format. Maybe in the long run that ends up being best; they'll have objective results and statistics to draw from and have a large financial incentive to pay close attention to the 1v1 format. I think WotC is in for a bit of a rude awakening personally; the format is going to be a bit of the wild, wild west in the beginning. Like I said before, I won't be participating in this experiment, but it's going to be interesting to watch.
It is an experiment I will follow intently because it is a thing I would not put past or take umbrage with them attempting with Multiplayer (however unlikely)
While it's fairly annoying that I can't use the multi ban list for 2 months due to thier lack of transparency and abruptness of thier initial decision I'm excited for a more balenced 1v1 format not dominated by ring/crypt.
My gut reaction to this list is that it's terribly incomplete and will require frequent revisions for a while. I mean they are trying to craft a format using educated guesses instead of hard data.
This is also an unpleasant reminder that Wizards can ultimately do whatever they want with Commander (including paper). Sure, they're saying all these nice things right now but it can all change at a moments notice.
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EDH playing competitive Magic cast away
Current Decks GTitania midrange RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
I actually agree 100% with everything added to the banlist. I disagree mith all the unbans though. I would definitely be onboard with this list with no unbans. Sign me up!
That said they have backed off and will likely end up with the same old banlist that we've had for ages and we will continue building decks with cards that are too powerful for legacy :/
I actually agree 100% with everything added to the banlist. I disagree mith all the unbans though. I would definitely be onboard with this list with no unbans. Sign me up!
That said they have backed off and will likely end up with the same old banlist that we've had for ages and we will continue building decks with cards that are too powerful for legacy :/
That's fine for multiplayer honestly. For 1v1, this new list will be THE list (and will suck until they understand that cards like Leovold shouldn't be legal). Saying that a card is too strong for Legacy, a 1v1 20 life 60 card format, does not intrinsically have any relevance to how good it is in EDH, a multiplayer 40 life 100 card singleton format. Cards that are very strong in Legacy, like Delver or Bolt or Goyf, aren't all that impressive in EDH, while many cards on the EDH banlist suck in Legacy (like Prophet, primordial, or Prime Time).
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
While I agree that they are inherently different formats the power level of cards remains the same. Sol ring is easily as strong as a moxen would be in our format but one is banned and the other isn't? Mana crypt/vault are even better in commander than they are in legacy because the self damage aspect is largely offset by the higher life total.
Cards like gaeas cradle, necropotence, and humility are still just as good in multiplayer.
The justification that it's a multiplayer format and therefore it's somehow ok to have one land that taps for 10 mana or be able to pay 1 life and draw as many cards as you want just doesn't hold up to me. Sure it being a singlehon format means that those cards are rarer to come up even in decks that they are in. But when they do the game is decided often on turn 0. That is an amount of variance I would personally rather not have.
What does the format lose by banning these cards? 6 mana on turn 3? The requirement to put these cards in every deck you make so that it's 'competitive'?
Personally I'd rather do without.
While I agree that they are inherently different formats the power level of cards remains the same. Sol ring is easily as strong as a moxen would be in our format but one is banned and the other isn't? Mana crypt/vault are even better in commander than they are in legacy because the self damage aspect is largely offset by the higher life total.
Cards like gaeas cradle, necropotence, and humility are still just as good in multiplayer.
The justification that it's a multiplayer format and therefore it's somehow ok to have one land that taps for 10 mana or be able to pay 1 life and draw as many cards as you want just doesn't hold up to me. Sure it being a singlehon format means that those cards are rarer to come up even in decks that they are in. But when they do the game is decided often on turn 0. That is an amount of variance I would personally rather not have.
What does the format lose by banning these cards? 6 mana on turn 3? The requirement to put these cards in every deck you make so that it's 'competitive'?
Personally I'd rather do without.
I think Humility is more of a card that's OK in Legacy, not OP. Regardless, yes, getting that significant of a mana advantage is much more powerful in 1v1 than multiplayer because in 1v1 you bring all of your resources to bear on one player and only have one player trying to stop you, while in multiplayer you need to use your resources to take out 3+ players, all while you might have every one of those players join forces to reign you in. And its silly to say a card like Sol Ring decides the game on turn 0 in a multiplayer match, please be serious. Before you get pedantic, I understand you're exaggerating, and that you really mean that its such an enormous advantage that its basically insurmountable when one player lands a turn 1 ring and everyone else goes land, pass, and I'm saying that is ridiculous. Maybe at the highest level of play, where decks are trying to combo by turn 4, but that's it and even that requires everyone but the sol ring player getting a bum draw.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
With the Magic Online deployment of Hour of Devastation on July 5, however, we will add another Commander format with a second, separate banned list.
Well, I was going to start playing multiplayer Commander on MTGO again, but I guess I'll wait two months until they unf*ck this mess they made. As usual, WotC is driven by their own greed and obsession over competitive formats.
With the Magic Online deployment of Hour of Devastation on July 5, however, we will add another Commander format with a second, separate banned list.
Well, I was going to start playing multiplayer Commander on MTGO again, but I guess I'll wait two months until they unf*ck this mess they made. As usual, WotC is driven by their own greed and obsession over competitive formats.
Yeah, I'm sticking to 1v1 until july. Too much Leovold, now with prophet, primordial, and Prime time.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Looks like Wizards is quickly realizing that this format is too easy to solve with the current ban list they have.
Wow, only 10 days in and they need to make an emergency change. It's like this was an entirely half assed effort by people who don't know what they are doing.
Hopefully they will improve the 1v1 format by getting rid of some of the problem cards they unbanned and taking a second look at some of what they banned. Together with the July 5 return of real multiplayer EDH, they might be able to salvage this.
They should have left multiplayer alone from the start and just copied the Leviathan banlist and tweaked from there as results came in, but it wouldn't be mtgo without an incompetent rollout that pisses off the player base.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
There are some results available from the first MTGO 1v1 Leagues (they post the decklists for 5-0 decks online). The results are somewhat predictable...
So yeah, mono-blue control, green ramp/resource denial, Tasigur, Vial, Breya, and a few combo decks... Emrakul, Prime-Time, Strip Mine recursion, Treasure Cruise/Dig Through Time all running rampant. I wonder how long that they will let this go on.
At least until the 25th...but 'this is the best the format's ever been'[/sarcasm], so...yeah. As you said, VERY predictable outcome. Curious to know how much Sylvan abuse there is in those decks too, or if Prime Time is all that's needed for wreckage.
Cards like Upheaval and Sway of the Stars become much worse without Sol Ring/Mana Crypt/Mana Vault. Actually pulling off advantage requires a major setup, of which there are other combos that are much easier to do.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Oh I'm all for nuking fast mana. But I think it is a huge disservice to the multiplayer community (and a middle finger to the RC) for not taking the effort to make a multiplayer ban list. Cards like Sylvan Primordial and Prophet of Kruphix were banned for good reason. To me, their list screams "come play your Spike games here because who cares about your opponents having fun". And hey, if that's the route they took then so be it, but it isn't the po8nt of EDH and it hurts the community when the world's collide.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
I imagine it'll be the same as the other commander releases. Not available on MTGO with the new cards available a different way later.
They should have kept the official RC ban list for multiplayer. They could have officially recognized the French banlist for 1v1. They should be keeping commander rules and banlists with the community. If they were to take power from the RC for paper magic, that would be really frustrating.
Also, they banned Moat. MOAT. This is not a ban-list, it's a joke.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
You don't personally speak for every online player, no matter how much you claim to. I haven't seen this supposed positive reaction. At best, it's been mixed, with people as upset with crap like Leovold and Prime Time as happy with fast mana being nuked.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Ding ding ding. WotC doesn't want to support anything online that they can't run tournaments for online. It's pure greed. With this move, freeform is now the only purely casual format. Everything is centered on leagues and events. The only thing that has saved Momir basic at this point is that they can occasionally run an event for it.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I would be okay with that, but they should have done it in a way that doesn't nerf online Multiplayer Commander or undermine paper Multiplayer Commander. Online Multiplayer and Online Paper Commander should have the same banned list and rules. Period. All the work that the RC does to keep a banned list that is small and easy to understand is potentially undone by this new announcement.
And as for the new Online 1v1 Commander format, I like that they have gone back to 30 life since that tilts tings away from aggro being so dominant, but there is still a big difference between the new 1v1 list and the Duel Commander list:
Unbanned as a Commander
Banned as a Commander
There is a definite break from Online 1v1 vs. Duel Commander in what constitutes being too good as a Commander, but the essence of most of this is based on the format life total changing back to 30. Marath, Oloro, and to a certain extent Tasigur will all be huge metagame forces in keeping aggro pinned down, as each was banned from duel commander for basically squeezing aggro out of the metagame. The added bans seem to be skewed towards reigning in prison decks (Arcum and Braids) or commanders that generate tons of CA (Griselbanned and Yisan).
Cards Unbanned for Online 1v1
Cards added to the Online 1v1 Banned list
Okay, so I can see unbanning Necrotic Ooze, but the other unbans don't make any sense to me. If you want to eliminate fast mana then you need to eliminate it, and unbanning something like Grim Monlith makes even less sense given everything that it combos with the generate infinite mana. The Strip Mine unbanning also seems antithetical to their stated goal.
As far as the bans go, Moat strikes me as particularly strange.
Anyway, the one good thing to come out of this is that WotC will have lots of tournament data to go by for which to issue corrections to this banned list once it goes live and they see the mistakes they've made. I don't plan on participating in this experiment, so good luck to those who wade into those waters.
Its a good move. I might be reading too much into this but its possible that their goal is to take over the 1v1 commander area with a banned list of their own creation. Its possible that 1v1 commander could take place of legacy in some ways because of the fact that its less demanding on the limited resources that belong to legacy.
I am probably reading too much into that but its a good direction that wizards could diversify that is currently not being exploited to its fullest because of the lack of official large scale tournaments.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Yeah, I was coming here to post this very thing. Good decision, one we advocated.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
This is also an unpleasant reminder that Wizards can ultimately do whatever they want with Commander (including paper). Sure, they're saying all these nice things right now but it can all change at a moments notice.
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
That said they have backed off and will likely end up with the same old banlist that we've had for ages and we will continue building decks with cards that are too powerful for legacy :/
That's fine for multiplayer honestly. For 1v1, this new list will be THE list (and will suck until they understand that cards like Leovold shouldn't be legal). Saying that a card is too strong for Legacy, a 1v1 20 life 60 card format, does not intrinsically have any relevance to how good it is in EDH, a multiplayer 40 life 100 card singleton format. Cards that are very strong in Legacy, like Delver or Bolt or Goyf, aren't all that impressive in EDH, while many cards on the EDH banlist suck in Legacy (like Prophet, primordial, or Prime Time).
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Cards like gaeas cradle, necropotence, and humility are still just as good in multiplayer.
The justification that it's a multiplayer format and therefore it's somehow ok to have one land that taps for 10 mana or be able to pay 1 life and draw as many cards as you want just doesn't hold up to me. Sure it being a singlehon format means that those cards are rarer to come up even in decks that they are in. But when they do the game is decided often on turn 0. That is an amount of variance I would personally rather not have.
What does the format lose by banning these cards? 6 mana on turn 3? The requirement to put these cards in every deck you make so that it's 'competitive'?
Personally I'd rather do without.
I think Humility is more of a card that's OK in Legacy, not OP. Regardless, yes, getting that significant of a mana advantage is much more powerful in 1v1 than multiplayer because in 1v1 you bring all of your resources to bear on one player and only have one player trying to stop you, while in multiplayer you need to use your resources to take out 3+ players, all while you might have every one of those players join forces to reign you in. And its silly to say a card like Sol Ring decides the game on turn 0 in a multiplayer match, please be serious. Before you get pedantic, I understand you're exaggerating, and that you really mean that its such an enormous advantage that its basically insurmountable when one player lands a turn 1 ring and everyone else goes land, pass, and I'm saying that is ridiculous. Maybe at the highest level of play, where decks are trying to combo by turn 4, but that's it and even that requires everyone but the sol ring player getting a bum draw.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Well, I was going to start playing multiplayer Commander on MTGO again, but I guess I'll wait two months until they unf*ck this mess they made. As usual, WotC is driven by their own greed and obsession over competitive formats.
Yeah, I'm sticking to 1v1 until july. Too much Leovold, now with prophet, primordial, and Prime time.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Looks like Wizards is quickly realizing that this format is too easy to solve with the current ban list they have.
Wow, only 10 days in and they need to make an emergency change. It's like this was an entirely half assed effort by people who don't know what they are doing.
Hopefully they will improve the 1v1 format by getting rid of some of the problem cards they unbanned and taking a second look at some of what they banned. Together with the July 5 return of real multiplayer EDH, they might be able to salvage this.
They should have left multiplayer alone from the start and just copied the Leviathan banlist and tweaked from there as results came in, but it wouldn't be mtgo without an incompetent rollout that pisses off the player base.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
5-11
2x Leovold, Emissary of Trest - Blue control mixed with BG Resource denial, including Strip Mine/Wasteland recursion with Life from the Loam
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy - Mono-U Control with all the Timewalks and Reweave into Emrakul finish
1x The Gitrog Monster - BG Resource Denial, with Plow Under + Eternal Witness recursion, Prime-Time abuse, and Strip Mine/Wasteland recursion.
1x Breya, Etherium Shaper - Almost creatureless, Pure control
1x Narset, Enlightened Master - Creatureless Control with Time Walks
1x Prossh, Skyraider of Kher - Aggro/Combo (with Earthcraft + Goblin Bombardment instead of Food Chain)
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer - Green ramp, Prime-Time, and Emrakul and other Eldrazi
1x Zurgo Bellstriker - Mono-R all-out aggro with Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon plus tons of burn
1x Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - About as mid-range and "fair" of a deck as you will see; definitely not the norm for these lists
5-12
3x Tasigur, the Golden Fang - Control plus grind them out with Tasigur CA
2x Nissa, Vastwood Seer - *
2x Vial Smasher the Fierce+Thrasios, Triton Hero - Typical Vial deck; counters, Time Walks, and removal with Vial damage FTW
1x Baral, Chief of Compliance - 30 counterspells, and Polymorph/Reweave into Emrakul
1x Zurgo Bellstriker - *
1x Animar, Soul of Elements - Pod into Kiki-Jiki+Conscripts or Exarch, or Glimpse/Curio, or Earthcraft combo
5-13
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang - *
2x Vial Smasher the Fierce+Thrasios, Triton Hero - *
2x Baral, Chief of Compliance - *
1x Breya, Etherium Shaper - *
1x Vendilion Clique - Might as well been Baral; nearly creatureless, counter-control with Polymorph into Emrakul finish
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth - Ramp and Recurring Land Destruction
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer - *
5-14
2x Baral, Chief of Compliance - *
2x Jace, Vry's Prodigy - *
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang - *
1x Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - *
1x Azusa, Lost But Seeking - Ramp into Prim-Time into Eldrazi
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer - *
1x Vial Smasher the Fierce+Thrasios, Triton Hero - *
1x Vial Smasher the Fierce+Kraum, Ludevic's Opus - Very similar to Vial+Thrasios except that you forgo green for having a 4/4 Hasty Flyer at your command
5-15
3x Tasigur, the Golden Fang - *
2x Baral, Chief of Compliance - *
2x Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - Green ramp into Prime-Time into Emrakul and other Eldrazi (both 5-0 deck by the same person)
1x Breya, Etherium Shaper - *
1x Radha, Heir to Kjeld - RG Ramp/Elves with non-basic hate (Blood Moon, Primal Order and Island hate (Boil, Choke)
1x The Gitrog Monster - *
5-16
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang - *
2x Azusa, Lost But Seeking - *
1x Vial Smasher the Fierce+Kraum, Ludevic's Opus - *
1x Vial Smasher the Fierce+Thrasios, Triton Hero - *
1x The Gitrog Monster - *
1x Baral, Chief of Compliance - *
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth - *
1x Ruhan of the Fomori - Jeskai combo-control with all the Kiki-Jiki, Splinter Twin, and Saheeli Rai combos
5-17
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang - *
2x Vial Smasher the Fierce+Kraum, Ludevic's Opus - *
1x Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - *
1x Baral, Chief of Compliance - *
1x The Gitrog Monster - *
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest - *
1x Breya, Etherium Shaper - *
1x Prossh, Skyraider of Kher - *
5-18
4x Baral, Chief of Compliance - *
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang - *
1x Vial Smasher the Fierce+Kraum, Ludevic's Opus - *
1x Vial Smasher the Fierce+Thrasios, Triton Hero - *
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy - *
1x Breya, Etherium Shaper - *
5-19
3x Baral, Chief of Compliance - *
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang - *
2x Vial Smasher the Fierce+Kraum, Ludevic's Opus - *
1x Vial Smasher the Fierce+Thrasios, Triton Hero - *
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth - *
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer - *
5-20
4x Tasigur, the Golden Fang - *
3x Baral, Chief of Compliance - *
1x The Gitrog Monster - *
1x Selvala, Heart of the Wilds - *
1x Jori En, Ruin Diver - Kiki-Jiki and Splinter Twin combos
Total over 10 Days
20x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
19x Baral, Chief of Compliance
15x Vial Smasher the Fierce (8 with Thrasios, Triton Hero, 7 with Kraum, Ludevic's Opus)
6x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
5x The Gitrog Monster
5x Breya, Etherium Shaper
4x Selvala, Heart of the Wilds
4x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3x Titania, Protector of Argoth
3x Azusa, Lost But Seeking
2x Prossh, Skyraider of Kher
2x Zurgo Bellstriker
2x Sidisi, Brood Tyrant
1x Narset, Enlightened Master
1x Animar, Soul of Elements
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Jori En, Ruin Diver
1x Ruhan of the Fomori
1x Radha, Heir to Keld
So yeah, mono-blue control, green ramp/resource denial, Tasigur, Vial, Breya, and a few combo decks... Emrakul, Prime-Time, Strip Mine recursion, Treasure Cruise/Dig Through Time all running rampant. I wonder how long that they will let this go on.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)