Who else thinks this card is too oppressive? Winter Orb is renown as one of the least fun cards to play against and this is it on a stick. With a card like Braids banned for effectively removing the ability for players to actually play the game what is the general opinion of people on Hokori?
I think Hokori is just one of those cards that unfortunately has to exist in Commander.
Commander is rife with cards that can create unpleasant games, Hokori, Dust Drinker being one of those. If the Rules Committee banned every card with the potential to create unpleasant games though, they'd have an unmanageable, mile-long ban list. Not every card Wizards prints is going to impact Commander positively. As such, only the most egregious offenders should find their names listed next to cards like Channel and Karakas. Is Hokori that bad? Personally, I don't believe so. Even if Hokori is miserable to play against, it's at least a lot easier to interact with than Winter Orb. A 2/2 creature is fairly fragile; most decks will find it a lot easier to get rid of a small creature than a noncreature artifact. Furthermore, it costs twice as much mana as Winter Orb. That's pretty significant. If it's sitting in the command zone, Hokori even telegraphs the possibility of it coming down, allowing players to potentially play around it. Lastly, Hokori can't be abused in the same way Winter Orb can with tap/untap effects, so its effect is mostly going to be symmetrical.
I think problematic cards like Hokori are best addressed at the local level. If Hokori is a problem in your local playgroup, I would suggest letting everyone know how Hokori makes you feel. Just be sure to be respectful to everyone using it, or they may not listen to you.
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The main difference is that Braids affects both tempo and boardstate, whereas Hokori only affects tempo. Obviously there are other factors like artifact mana into a smokestack and similar, but it is much easier to recover from Hokori.
Cards like this need to exist to allow diversity in archetypes. I have a Queen Marchessa aggro deck that sports Hokori, Winter Orb, Cataclysm, and Keldon Firebombers. I've tried the deck without those cards and I just get absolutely crushed by G/B and G/U value decks.
I don't think Hokori deserves to be banned. Even if "banned as a general" still existed, the difference in oppressiveness between mono-B and mono-W stax is huge because W does not have the amazing CA tools like Phyrexian Arena, Bloodghast, Bitterblossom, Dark Confidant, etc.
It really only takes small adjustments to deal with Hokori. Braids, on the other hand, requires a complete change in the metagame.
I have honestly never seen it in play. But that may have quite a bit to do with why it isnt banned. Oppressive stuff tends to fly under the radar in most metas as its not seen.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
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Commander is rife with cards that can create unpleasant games, Hokori, Dust Drinker being one of those. If the Rules Committee banned every card with the potential to create unpleasant games though, they'd have an unmanageable, mile-long ban list. Not every card Wizards prints is going to impact Commander positively. As such, only the most egregious offenders should find their names listed next to cards like Channel and Karakas. Is Hokori that bad? Personally, I don't believe so. Even if Hokori is miserable to play against, it's at least a lot easier to interact with than Winter Orb. A 2/2 creature is fairly fragile; most decks will find it a lot easier to get rid of a small creature than a noncreature artifact. Furthermore, it costs twice as much mana as Winter Orb. That's pretty significant. If it's sitting in the command zone, Hokori even telegraphs the possibility of it coming down, allowing players to potentially play around it. Lastly, Hokori can't be abused in the same way Winter Orb can with tap/untap effects, so its effect is mostly going to be symmetrical.
I think problematic cards like Hokori are best addressed at the local level. If Hokori is a problem in your local playgroup, I would suggest letting everyone know how Hokori makes you feel. Just be sure to be respectful to everyone using it, or they may not listen to you.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Cards like this need to exist to allow diversity in archetypes. I have a Queen Marchessa aggro deck that sports Hokori, Winter Orb, Cataclysm, and Keldon Firebombers. I've tried the deck without those cards and I just get absolutely crushed by G/B and G/U value decks.
I don't think Hokori deserves to be banned. Even if "banned as a general" still existed, the difference in oppressiveness between mono-B and mono-W stax is huge because W does not have the amazing CA tools like Phyrexian Arena, Bloodghast, Bitterblossom, Dark Confidant, etc.
It really only takes small adjustments to deal with Hokori. Braids, on the other hand, requires a complete change in the metagame.