Buffsam, I never claimed you said a to deck Sol Ring was "amazing". All I said was that you illustrated times when it won a game that shouldn't have been won that turn, and it was in direct response to this post:
Yeah, in terms of theft/cloning, Sol Rung and Mana Crypt are always the first target, in almost every situation. Cryogens examples are great, but usually secondary. I mean, I don't know how many times I, or my opponents, have taken the net-loss and gone for Sol Ring/Crypt with Sculpting Steel or Phyrexian Metamorph. Same thing as Tstom mentions, library theft such as Acquire and Praetors Grasp are usually used on these, and will always be the first grab for Thada players. No other card rivals Sol Ring/Mana Crypt in the "Over-Centealized" department, and nobody notices/cares because A.) it's a colorless piece, so it doesn't drive deck selection, and B.)It's included in starter decks.
I don't like reading that Sol Ring loses its impact the longer the games go, I've literally had dozens of games decided by a top-decked Sol Ring simply because it allowed the player to recast a commander that any other form of ramp wouldn't have allowed.
An example of this was 2 nights ago against a Prossh player. That player had a Mass Hysteria on the board with Impact Tremors, just devoured his tokens the turn before, but a newer player thought it be a bright idea to wrath the board. The Prossh player had 1 card in hand at that time, and 8 lands(Prossh had been re-cast once prior). Prossh player top-decks Sol Ring, his other card was a land, re-cast Prossh, killed one player with the 11 damage from tremors, devoured tokens and hit me with a final wave of commander damage, and just was able out-card the new player. Not a single other form of ramp would have allowed that, considering it would have taken one more land drop to hit 12, which is where it is different from top-decking Ancient Tomb or Temple of the False God.
praetor's grasp, fabricate and trinket mage are all solid includes that would be somewhere between mediocre to bad without omnipresent sol ring.
Dizzy spell is playable thanks to sol ring (the plethora of good 1cmc cards in EDH is also necessary for it to be playable, but without sol ring it wouldn't be worth running)
thada adel, acquisitor as commander is pretty much dependent on being able to collect sol rings as a worst case scenario
Hell, any cheap tutor (enlightened/demonic/vampiric), while never bad to have in hand, is so much better drawn early game or in your opener when sol ring exists.
praetor's grasp, fabricate and trinket mage are all solid includes that would be somewhere between mediocre to bad without omnipresent sol ring.
Dizzy spell is playable thanks to sol ring (the plethora of good 1cmc cards in EDH is also necessary for it to be playable, but without sol ring it wouldn't be worth running)
thada adel, acquisitor as commander is pretty much dependent on being able to collect sol rings as a worst case scenario
Hell, any cheap tutor (enlightened/demonic/vampiric), while never bad to have in hand, is so much better drawn early game or in your opener when sol ring exists.
Not to be the devil's advocate, but using Copy Artifact, Sculpting Steel, Phyrexian Metamorph, Dack Fayden and Clever Impersonator on a Sol Ring is a huge waste of potential - in fact, I've never actually seen that play made due to the fact that those cards are used later in a game and can provide so much more value instead of a later game 2 ramp.
I do always find "it's a bad topdeck late game" arguments to be hilarious. So are lands, yet for some reason we put a whole bunch of those in our decks.
I usually group sol ring and mana crypt into my land category when working on decks. The cost is low enough that it acts functionally the same.
Not to be the devil's advocate, but using Copy Artifact, Sculpting Steel, Phyrexian Metamorph, Dack Fayden and Clever Impersonator on a Sol Ring is a huge waste of potential - in fact, I've never actually seen that play made due to the fact that those cards are used later in a game and can provide so much more value instead of a later game 2 ramp.
2 mana ramp is "so much more value". Sol Ring is one of the biggest reasons for playing copy artifact. Before turn 5 or so copying a Sol Ring is usually the strongest play you can make with those cards. Worn Powerstone is playable in EDH, paying 3 mana to clone a Sol Ring that enters untapped is "so much more value".
Might be something about different playgroups but with the ones I play those cards are very commonly used to clone the ring.
Because neither of the cards you mentioned provides you with 3 mana on turn 2 and 5+ mana on turn 3, Sol Ring does. Why tutor for a necropotence that is hard to cast early in a multicolour deck when you can get another card that grants you a huge advantage but that you are guaranteed to be able to play.
Burgeoning is better if you have a surplus of lands in hand and don't need a mana boost right then. Burgeoning loses you a mana the turn you play it and you need to spend 4 cards to surpass the ramp Sol Ring offers (burgeoning and 3 lands). The ring gains you a mana the turn you play it and requires no additional card investment.
Personally I am somewhat torn on the whole ban/don't ban thing. It does have a tendency to warp games completely around it and it warps deckbuilding around it aswell. But it is also fun playing with power (Both Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are imo worthy of begin called "power").
If sol rings comes out early and warps the game it will probably lead to a fast game so you can just start a new one, if it comes out later it is not as much of a big deal.
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Preface: I could care less about banning Sol Ring and wouldn't oppose this. Also, none of my statements are trying to downplay the value of a T1/T2 Sol Ring. My opinions are based on copying/stealing a Sol Ring after T3+
on turn 3 or 4 copying or stealing a sol ring is clearly the strong play
Artifact only tutors/copies, maybe unless you have someone playing an artifact heavy deck (like my Daretti list) that have other game-state effecting cards. I am not arguing that making a copied sol ring is 'bad', my point is there are definitely better plays to make. An example from my perspective is if there is an Oracle of Mul Daya in play or a Sol Ring in play and you have Clever Impersonator - which would you copy? Personally, I'd take the Oracle due to the value of manipulating your topdeck and avoiding drawing lands. Can it backfire? Yes, but it can also still provide better filtering and almost the same ramp as the Sol Ring.
I do always find "it's a bad topdeck late game" arguments to be hilarious. So are lands, yet for some reason we put a whole bunch of those in our decks.
I usually group sol ring and mana crypt into my land category when working on decks. The cost is low enough that it acts functionally the same.
The reason we 'put a bunch in' is because you need to draw (generally) 3+ in your opening hand, so I don't see how the argument that drawing Sol Ring later is 'hillarious'. I would argue if anyone could cut lands and not get mana screwed, they would do it. I know few players that run 40 lands exactly - they typically try to 'cheat' the land count as best as possible to put non-lands in.
Not to be the devil's advocate, but using Copy Artifact, Sculpting Steel, Phyrexian Metamorph, Dack Fayden and Clever Impersonator on a Sol Ring is a huge waste of potential - in fact, I've never actually seen that play made due to the fact that those cards are used later in a game and can provide so much more value instead of a later game 2 ramp.
2 mana ramp is "so much more value". Sol Ring is one of the biggest reasons for playing copy artifact. Before turn 5 or so copying a Sol Ring is usually the strongest play you can make with those cards. Worn Powerstone is playable in EDH, paying 3 mana to clone a Sol Ring that enters untapped is "so much more value".
Might be something about different playgroups but with the ones I play those cards are very commonly used to clone the ring.
Because neither of the cards you mentioned provides you with 3 mana on turn 2 and 5+ mana on turn 3, Sol Ring does. Why tutor for a necropotence that is hard to cast early in a multicolour deck when you can get another card that grants you a huge advantage but that you are guaranteed to be able to play.
Burgeoning is better if you have a surplus of lands in hand and don't need a mana boost right then. Burgeoning loses you a mana the turn you play it and you need to spend 4 cards to surpass the ramp Sol Ring offers (burgeoning and 3 lands). The ring gains you a mana the turn you play it and requires no additional card investment.
Personally I am somewhat torn on the whole ban/don't ban thing. It does have a tendency to warp games completely around it and it warps deckbuilding around it aswell. But it is also fun playing with power (Both Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are imo worthy of begin called "power").
If sol rings comes out early and warps the game it will probably lead to a fast game so you can just start a new one, if it comes out later it is not as much of a big deal.
A lot of your comments are perspective based and we are different types of players, so I 'agree to disagree'. I would much rather copy an artifact that affects my board position and I don't consider ramp to do that. All the cards I listed are significantly more powerful to the game than a Sol Ring post-T1/T2. A T4/T5 Sol ring is honestly meh because the other players boards should be established enough to deal with anything you would gain off the 2.
I assume this is a question evaluating Burgeoning specifically, if so then yes I think the value of dumping lands into play not on my turn is valuable if I have the lands to dump over using the Enlightened Tutor to grab a copy effect for getting a Sol Ring. That's just personal opinion on my end.
Burgeoning and exploration are functional card disadvantage (that also require a particular set of circumstances. C'mon guys. Not even in the same camp.
Sure, when the cards align a turn 1 burgeoning, manabond or exploration are insane. But there are actual playstyle and deckbuilding constraints there vs. "play cards in your deck" with sol ring
Burgeoning and exploration are functional card disadvantage (that also require a particular set of circumstances. C'mon guys. Not even in the same camp.
Sure, when the cards align a turn 1 burgeoning, manabond or exploration are insane. But there are actual playstyle and deckbuilding constraints there vs. "play cards in your deck" with sol ring
Agree on disadvantage, but if your goal is to simply ramp and play bigger threats, who cares? My point is that saying Sol Ring is a highly copied artifact and people go through great lengths to steal Sol rings from others is far fetched. I'd love to play against those people and see their face when I drop a Blightsteel Colossus on them after copying my ring.
Bottom line: Is the card good? Yes. Does it ruin games? Subjective to the users opinion on what the problem is - is it the ramp or the card that is using the ramp. Does it need to be banned? IMO, Meh.
Sol ring is fine in the RCs vision type game so its fine . I will say it is without a doubt the single most centralizing card in the format and has a huge impact on more games than any other card in the format in my experience playing thousands of different decks and players on mtgo and in paper. The first thing I think every game is I hope no one else has crypt or ring in their opening hand unless im sitting on copy artifact or dack fayden + mox diamond or something of that nature then im probably hoping they do have and its still the first thing im thinking about.
Honestly, even within their vision Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are borderline cards. The mana boost and advantage you get from dropping anything from Skyshroud Claim, Wheel of Fortune, your general, Sad Robot, etc is something that can have a definite, if subtle, impact on the game. I don't know if "what happens when this is in my opening hand" is a ban worthy criteria, but it shouldn't be discounted either.
I have to admit I am back on the 'Ban Sol Ring' train. I fully recognize it has a lot to do with what people land on T2, T3, T4. But a major issue is even people I know and enjoy playing with, and generally play with a 'spirit of the format' that agrees with mine, don't seem to have the same level of awareness about those plays. Its a strange dichotomy for people who say 'just because its legal, does not make it OK' and goes T2 Thruun, T3 Sigarda and laughs at how fun Sol Ring is...
Give me a few months without something stupid happening, I may flop-flip.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Good. At least you're finally throwing yourself to the field playing, experiencing it first-hand instead of theory talking. There's too many theorists out there who don't actually know what's going on on Earth.
Good. At least you're finally throwing yourself to the field playing, experiencing it first-hand instead of theory talking. There's too many theorists out there who don't actually know what's going on on Earth.
That is a rather bold claim. Sol Ring is probably the ubiquitous card in EDH. You can claim that people stick their heads in the sand and don't recognize or ignore the impact an early game SR has (or perhaps it simply doesn't have one in their games), but saying people just theorize with how it plays is way off base.
Good. At least you're finally throwing yourself to the field playing, experiencing it first-hand instead of theory talking. There's too many theorists out there who don't actually know what's going on on Earth.
As one of the many 'theorists' you are referring to, I would like to point out I have done, and seen, many T1 SRs and can say that it has never ended a game or been the sole reason a game got out of hand too early.
As cyro stated, the claim that people arguing against a potential ban and that they are just employing theory to support themselves is off base, borderline ignorant of the pervasiveness of SR in the format imo.
Good. At least you're finally throwing yourself to the field playing, experiencing it first-hand instead of theory talking. There's too many theorists out there who don't actually know what's going on on Earth.
I don't know what you are talking about, my opinion has always been informed by games I played in. I honestly doubt ANYONE playing EDH hasn't played against a T1 SolRing, so I dont know what you are on about.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
The stongest reasons have just recently been released, heavy commitment commanders. And an analogue to the general best reason has always existed. It warps what you should do. It's one card out of the 99? This holds up? You could easily say... it's one card out of the 99 as a POSITIVE statement in favor banning. Everything is interdependent in making a deck. It's non-trivial to say the LEAST. You draw seven. You completely could have it. You HAVE to have it. It's pretty much GOT to be good for your deck or it's likely it's not at-best. That could be something else. That could be beat down and prey upon. 40 life is already "bad" for most non-pushed low to the ground strategies and that card massively exacerbates it. Some semblance of game flow that touches upon more normal Magic would be nice. It's massively excluded because of Sol Ring. LOVE Sol Ring, print it in the first place, sure, but scratch one more off of the Sol Ring players' club for the greater good.
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"Warning: Um, warning. This is going to be a game state violation. And a taking extra turns and drawing extra cards violation, pretty much, a whole bunch of violations. Look at me, I'm the DCI."
As one of the many 'theorists' you are referring to, I would like to point out I have done, and seen, many T1 SRs and can say that it has never ended a game or been the sole reason a game got out of hand too early.
If Sol Ring insta-win is the only thing you're looking for with regards to banning, than I don't think that you're paying attention to the right things. When they started printing commander precons and everyone had enough Sol Rings to go around, I used Sol Rings in my decks figuring an equal playing field would even things out, but before that, low availability often made Sol Ring a haves vs have-nots issue, and I criticized it from that angle. When there were two people in the group who had a Sol Ring for every deck, pointing out Sol Ring problems was more of a playful ribbing with friends about how they "really earned that win," but once Sol Rings were everywhere and I started paying attention to how things go relative to the use of Sol Ring, it really does just make the game worse.
It's not about someone going "turn 1 Sol Ring, I win suckas!" It's about 1 of the players at the table despairing that they didn't get to do anything before the game ended, which happens more often with Sol Rings involved. It's about somebody who can't play a turn 2 signet because they already have to leave counterspell mana up or risk letting the game get away from them, which happens more with Sol Rings. It's about 3 players taking turns like "land, Chromatic Lantern, pass" while one person is already in the mid-game chaining together 3 or 4 minute turns, which happens more with Sol Rings. It doesn't matter if the Sol Ring player wins or loses or if the game lasts 5 minutes or 5 hours, if the card is that effective at making people unhappy playing the game, the damage is done.
People more rarely complain directly about Sol Ring anymore (except turds like me) because it has the status quo firmly on its side, but you should pay attention to not just complaints about Sol Ring, but complaints that happen because of it.
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Tstorm, some of us do listen to turds like you We don't have to agree, but we listen. I admit that I used to be firmly in the camp of people who swore up and down that the card was harmless, but then I actually started listening to the people on the forum and observing my own games. And even though it is very rare that I see a game where I could retrace the cause to SR, I still have seen plenty of games where it just enough of a nudge. Of course, I also see plenty of games where that early game SR didn't make a whit of difference either. And then I thought about what SR means to me. And it doesn't mean much at all. It's a mana rock with no down side and vintage power level in a format that desperately wants to prove it isn't vintage despite sharing a card pool. The only plus side that's touted as far as I can tell is that it's nostalgia, but I count myself as an old fart that started playing in 94 and that novelty wore off now that it's been reprinted five times now. I approach deck building holistically, and I get more excitement from finding a crap common that synergies with my deck than a card that I probably grab right after selecting my general.
I'm more interested as to why one of the most vehement apologists (not a negative word) of the banlist (Sol Ring for the matter) in MTGS would have a 180 turn on the subject, and what caused the change in viewpoint. Was it the due diligence of playing more, observing more? Actually going out of their comfort zones (basement, your playgroup) and finding other playgroups to have a sensing of how EDH is generally played?
I understand that people have other things of concern like family, work, other hobbies, etc. Hence the lack of time to immerse themselves with EDH. But do we actually give credit to people who actually put in the hours on the subject, unlike say some who can perhaps only play once a month (for example) and do not have a proper judgment of how impactful certain cards and metas have become?
This is why we leave things to the pros. This is why people netdeck. Say whatever you want but there're EDH "pros" as well. They may not share the limelight or skill quality of the actual counterparts of recognized formats but they do the same thing at the end of the day. They test. They play. Like a lot. They form the necessary protection (as well as the meta) for grounders like us. Protection in the form of identifying the broken cards and interaction in order to keep the format sustainable, fun, and most of all, balanced.
Wizards does that with standard. Many of their testers are former pros. The same with Modern, Legacy, and to a certain extent Vintage and Legacy. They may not test as much but they've the data and statistical analysis to weed problem cards out. So that the partisans and majority of players can enjoy their formats respectively.
And many apologists will counter to say EDH is not a competitive format. And so... casual players don't play Standard, Modern, Legacy? Gimme a break. Wizards have shown that casual players form the majority opinion of how they shape their products.
What I'm alluding to is that EDH currently doesn't have sufficient protection (aka the banlist) to protect the majority of its playerbase. There's also not enough listeners to hear what the EDH pros have to say. Sol Ring, no matter how casual one ca be, is a broken card. If one wants to play it, ban it first and have a talk with the house.
Bolas, who are you asking, Blue or myself? Because if you're going to call out someone at least do it by name.
Anyway, if you're talking about me then it's like I said: the more the card got discussed here, the more I started paying attention to what was being said and mulling it over independently of the ban list or philosophy, and I started paying more attention to when it was played in my own games.
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copy artifact, sculpting steel, phyrexian metamorph, dack fayden and possibly even clever impersonator would be solid cards anyway, but are way better because of sol ring's ubiquity
praetor's grasp, fabricate and trinket mage are all solid includes that would be somewhere between mediocre to bad without omnipresent sol ring.
Dizzy spell is playable thanks to sol ring (the plethora of good 1cmc cards in EDH is also necessary for it to be playable, but without sol ring it wouldn't be worth running)
thada adel, acquisitor as commander is pretty much dependent on being able to collect sol rings as a worst case scenario
Hell, any cheap tutor (enlightened/demonic/vampiric), while never bad to have in hand, is so much better drawn early game or in your opener when sol ring exists.
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I also find the low-cost tutor argument a little flawed too - why use Enlightened Tutor on a Sol Ring when it could grab Survival of the Fittest, Sneak Attack, Necropotence, or Burgeoning, all of which are significantly better.
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I've seen Sculpting Steel on Sol Ring a lot, but not really any of the others.
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I usually group sol ring and mana crypt into my land category when working on decks. The cost is low enough that it acts functionally the same.
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2 mana ramp is "so much more value". Sol Ring is one of the biggest reasons for playing copy artifact. Before turn 5 or so copying a Sol Ring is usually the strongest play you can make with those cards. Worn Powerstone is playable in EDH, paying 3 mana to clone a Sol Ring that enters untapped is "so much more value".
Might be something about different playgroups but with the ones I play those cards are very commonly used to clone the ring.
Because neither of the cards you mentioned provides you with 3 mana on turn 2 and 5+ mana on turn 3, Sol Ring does. Why tutor for a necropotence that is hard to cast early in a multicolour deck when you can get another card that grants you a huge advantage but that you are guaranteed to be able to play.
Burgeoning is better if you have a surplus of lands in hand and don't need a mana boost right then. Burgeoning loses you a mana the turn you play it and you need to spend 4 cards to surpass the ramp Sol Ring offers (burgeoning and 3 lands). The ring gains you a mana the turn you play it and requires no additional card investment.
Personally I am somewhat torn on the whole ban/don't ban thing. It does have a tendency to warp games completely around it and it warps deckbuilding around it aswell. But it is also fun playing with power (Both Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are imo worthy of begin called "power").
If sol rings comes out early and warps the game it will probably lead to a fast game so you can just start a new one, if it comes out later it is not as much of a big deal.
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Artifact only tutors/copies, maybe unless you have someone playing an artifact heavy deck (like my Daretti list) that have other game-state effecting cards. I am not arguing that making a copied sol ring is 'bad', my point is there are definitely better plays to make. An example from my perspective is if there is an Oracle of Mul Daya in play or a Sol Ring in play and you have Clever Impersonator - which would you copy? Personally, I'd take the Oracle due to the value of manipulating your topdeck and avoiding drawing lands. Can it backfire? Yes, but it can also still provide better filtering and almost the same ramp as the Sol Ring.
The reason we 'put a bunch in' is because you need to draw (generally) 3+ in your opening hand, so I don't see how the argument that drawing Sol Ring later is 'hillarious'. I would argue if anyone could cut lands and not get mana screwed, they would do it. I know few players that run 40 lands exactly - they typically try to 'cheat' the land count as best as possible to put non-lands in.
A lot of your comments are perspective based and we are different types of players, so I 'agree to disagree'. I would much rather copy an artifact that affects my board position and I don't consider ramp to do that. All the cards I listed are significantly more powerful to the game than a Sol Ring post-T1/T2. A T4/T5 Sol ring is honestly meh because the other players boards should be established enough to deal with anything you would gain off the 2.
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Sure, when the cards align a turn 1 burgeoning, manabond or exploration are insane. But there are actual playstyle and deckbuilding constraints there vs. "play cards in your deck" with sol ring
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Bottom line: Is the card good? Yes. Does it ruin games? Subjective to the users opinion on what the problem is - is it the ramp or the card that is using the ramp. Does it need to be banned? IMO, Meh.
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UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
That is a rather bold claim. Sol Ring is probably the ubiquitous card in EDH. You can claim that people stick their heads in the sand and don't recognize or ignore the impact an early game SR has (or perhaps it simply doesn't have one in their games), but saying people just theorize with how it plays is way off base.
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As cyro stated, the claim that people arguing against a potential ban and that they are just employing theory to support themselves is off base, borderline ignorant of the pervasiveness of SR in the format imo.
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
If Sol Ring insta-win is the only thing you're looking for with regards to banning, than I don't think that you're paying attention to the right things. When they started printing commander precons and everyone had enough Sol Rings to go around, I used Sol Rings in my decks figuring an equal playing field would even things out, but before that, low availability often made Sol Ring a haves vs have-nots issue, and I criticized it from that angle. When there were two people in the group who had a Sol Ring for every deck, pointing out Sol Ring problems was more of a playful ribbing with friends about how they "really earned that win," but once Sol Rings were everywhere and I started paying attention to how things go relative to the use of Sol Ring, it really does just make the game worse.
It's not about someone going "turn 1 Sol Ring, I win suckas!" It's about 1 of the players at the table despairing that they didn't get to do anything before the game ended, which happens more often with Sol Rings involved. It's about somebody who can't play a turn 2 signet because they already have to leave counterspell mana up or risk letting the game get away from them, which happens more with Sol Rings. It's about 3 players taking turns like "land, Chromatic Lantern, pass" while one person is already in the mid-game chaining together 3 or 4 minute turns, which happens more with Sol Rings. It doesn't matter if the Sol Ring player wins or loses or if the game lasts 5 minutes or 5 hours, if the card is that effective at making people unhappy playing the game, the damage is done.
People more rarely complain directly about Sol Ring anymore (except turds like me) because it has the status quo firmly on its side, but you should pay attention to not just complaints about Sol Ring, but complaints that happen because of it.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
I understand that people have other things of concern like family, work, other hobbies, etc. Hence the lack of time to immerse themselves with EDH. But do we actually give credit to people who actually put in the hours on the subject, unlike say some who can perhaps only play once a month (for example) and do not have a proper judgment of how impactful certain cards and metas have become?
This is why we leave things to the pros. This is why people netdeck. Say whatever you want but there're EDH "pros" as well. They may not share the limelight or skill quality of the actual counterparts of recognized formats but they do the same thing at the end of the day. They test. They play. Like a lot. They form the necessary protection (as well as the meta) for grounders like us. Protection in the form of identifying the broken cards and interaction in order to keep the format sustainable, fun, and most of all, balanced.
Wizards does that with standard. Many of their testers are former pros. The same with Modern, Legacy, and to a certain extent Vintage and Legacy. They may not test as much but they've the data and statistical analysis to weed problem cards out. So that the partisans and majority of players can enjoy their formats respectively.
And many apologists will counter to say EDH is not a competitive format. And so... casual players don't play Standard, Modern, Legacy? Gimme a break. Wizards have shown that casual players form the majority opinion of how they shape their products.
What I'm alluding to is that EDH currently doesn't have sufficient protection (aka the banlist) to protect the majority of its playerbase. There's also not enough listeners to hear what the EDH pros have to say. Sol Ring, no matter how casual one ca be, is a broken card. If one wants to play it, ban it first and have a talk with the house.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Anyway, if you're talking about me then it's like I said: the more the card got discussed here, the more I started paying attention to what was being said and mulling it over independently of the ban list or philosophy, and I started paying more attention to when it was played in my own games.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg