Because multiplayer commander may be the primary way in which commander gets played but how many areas need to be reserved just for multiplayer commander? It is assumed that unmarked threads are multiplayer commander but there should be no reason that DC or other variant ways of playing commander cant use these areas.
Think about it this way, if DC were to ever scale up its traffic it would make posting all of its content within its subforum awkward because things would get bumped off page quickly. It is good to set up these sort of things for any and every format of commander able to use them because of this.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I think that instead of banning blue cards, we should figure out what archetype has a great matchup against blue and why is that archetype not seeing play.
In the dealing with all the blue decks thread it was discussed that more agressive creature based decks can defeat control but certain decks are such a hard matchup that these aggro decks are rarely played. Marath was mentioned by 3drinks as a "bouncer" for aggro decks in the format and a few others said something similarly. Personally I think it's the super fast combo decks like Sidisi.
I'd like to see the discussion continued. Jiv put a stop to the discussion in that thread because it was off topic and mentioned that this is the thread for that discussion.
Most played cards
lands not included
Card Name Decks
Jace, the Mind Sculptor 51 %
Brainstorm 50 %
Counterspell 48 %
Mana Leak 47 %
Remand 46 %
Preordain 45 %
Dig Through Time 45 %
Force of Will 45 %
Miscalculation 44 %
Memory Lapse 43 %
That says a lot about the format xD, sadly the last bans simply made blue way too strong to fight against, Craddle got a ban with Yisan, which I didn't get why both had the ban, and not left one to first see first what would happen.. (The only tier 1 deck that uses Craddle consistently is Marath)
Anyway, DTT and Treasure Cruise are opressive, I play blue and I know that a successful cast of any of those is huge C.A for tiny cost. FoW gets less stronger if they can't refill their hands with undercosted spells, since if you 2-for-1, but can't consistently make up for that, you have trouble later on the game.
The first non-blue cards, anyway that gives out a nice idea what is happening to the meta, I remember doing this same review 3 months ago, it the top played cards were something like, 45% blue, 35% green, 20% black. Now its like 90% blue, 10% rest.
I don't agree with color balancing as focus of the banlist, like the last banlist was, I prefer to go for archetype balance, it is much more healthy to go that direction since it is a mostly multicolored format, then trying to balance colors out. You can balance color out and have 80% control 20% rest, which will be a really unbalanced format, while I prefer decks to be 50% blue-something, but with archetypes balanced, which isn't also the case lately...
Honestly, titania being so prevalent is not a surprise to me. It is one of the few types of green decks that could withstand cradle getting banned, the other type being pure ramp with Nissa. Elfball is dead and buried. Banning cradle was a mistake, they should ban marath and bring cradle back.
Jace is a problem to this format. A serious one. I hope they realize that and ban the card. Dedicated high tide jace lists play like control decks and punish decks that don't interact with the stack, forcing the meta even more towards blue. That's insane. Not only that, Jace easily gets down to 50 cards in his library within some turns of the game, which gives it a level of consistency other decks simply can't compete with.
I think banning Jenara is wrong, despite her good numbers. If we ban jenara we won't stop until there are only terrible commanders in BANT colors, because the issue is that the combination of colors is too strong, not the general itself.
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Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
I agree that Jenara should not get banned. Their is absolutely nothing broken about her, she is just a beat stick. It doesn't seem right to ban a card just because of its mana cost/ colour combination.
Not sure anything should be banned. The style of bans often is probably unsustainable for the format. Players need to learn to adapt for longer than 3 months to truly see whether or not a metagame is healthy. There are simply not enough large tournaments or enough players to get proper numbers to decide if a card needs to be banned or not.
In my opinion if the current way of format updates does not change, the format will not succeed.
Not sure anything should be banned. The style of bans often is probably unsustainable for the format. Players need to learn to adapt for longer than 3 months to truly see whether or not a metagame is healthy. There are simply not enough large tournaments or enough players to get proper numbers to decide if a card needs to be banned or not.
In my opinion if the current way of format updates does not change, the format will not succeed.
Both Tasigur and Yisan stayed in the format way longer than 3 months before they got banned, marath is in the format for even longer than that and cradle since its inception. I don't think that Marath is a problem in terms of metagame dominance, but it is a problem in policing what sort of generals are competitive or not. 4 mana 2/2s like arcum dagsson are a joke for the marath player, and there are plenty of other examples.
Jace has been in the format for longer than 3 months as well, he was released in Magic Origins, he won two of the two online tournaments we had, won the last demonic tournament and his numbers keep picking up and up. I really don't know what card you're talking about that we didn't wait 3 months to adapt. There are no cards in SOI that are a concern, all the talkings of banning and unbanning are from older cards.
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Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
I feel eventually we'll see life totals lower or sideboards or some other fundamental change to the format. But for now, the RC seems to be doing a decent job.
I feel eventually we'll see life totals lower or sideboards or some other fundamental change to the format. But for now, the RC seems to be doing a decent job.
I was pretty surprised to learn that sideboards weren't allowed in a tournament heavy format. It really seems this is a must and it would resolve stuff internally at the metagame level no?
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
YAY! Leovold the steroided lovechild of Edric and Spirit of the Labyrinth, makes Jace and most control decks unplayable for the next 3 months. On the plus-side for me Jace will no longer be the big offender and won't get banned too soon. When he resolves on turn 2 you just gain CA if monoblue tries to bounce him. This is very strong for Leovolds who play counterspells, but I predict that the good builds won't function like Tasigur but more like Jenara (not draw-go but creature based midrange or tempo). Both his abilities are anti-control measures that make it impossible for any blue deck to consistently keep him off the table or outpace him in card advantage.
You can't cantrip your way for answers and attempting to remove him lets Leovold find a counterspell to counter your spell. Versus control his second ability seems more pertinent to Leovold getting targetted than anything else since it lets you easily outgrind any control deck in the format who is forced to waste cards dealing with him.
As people were complaining a lot about Jace, Leovold seems perfect. Anti-control control is something great for the format. 2 out of 3 of the legends we've gotten this set seem great.
Keranos will find a way to adapt to it though. All the bolts and two damage burn spells turn into Slagstorm variants, and he can easily punish Leovold with Blood Moon once the dorks get swept away.
Leovold's first ability won't do much to interact with Narset/Wanderer either, especially since the former doesn't rely on cantrips or drawing as much as Jace or Keranos.
Keranos will find a way to adapt to it though. All the bolts and two damage burn spells turn into Slagstorm variants, and he can easily punish Leovold with Blood Moon once the dorks get swept away.
Leovold's first ability won't do much to interact with Narset/Wanderer either, especially since the former doesn't rely on cantrips or drawing as much as Jace or Keranos.
So you're saying....gasp...that we might have a balanced BUG general?
He doesnt hurt, he completely wrecks monoblue and Gitrog lol. I don't think he will necessarily be played as hard control because his abilities are reactive and anti-control as they are, and his 3/3 body is inconsequential as a beater. My guess is that it will be played as midrange or tempo. At least Tasigur was an active general that forced you to build around him with reactive cards.
I think that overall Leo is weaker than Tasi and has more bad matchups. Which is quite sad because Jace would have crushed Tasi, but in turn now gets crushed by Leovold.
I think people are overreacting to Leovold. They see 3cmc BUG that draw cards and freak out. I think he is way less broken than Tasigur. Definately pushed though.
I think people are overreacting to Leovold. They see 3cmc BUG that draw cards and freak out. I think he is way less broken than Tasigur. Definately pushed though.
I think he's pushed in the same way Anafenza is pushed, which is to say very powerful but probably safe.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I've played about 40 games with Selvala Eldrazi so far, and I think card advantage is the biggest problem. Unlike Nissa, we play creature based ramp rather than land based ramp and which makes us vulnerable to sweepers and spot removal. It can ramp ridiculously faster than any other deck in the format, but card advantage is still its biggest weakness when against control and attrition. Half the time her draw trigger is a disadvantage. There will frequent situations where you can't get Selvala to stick or you simply have no fatties in hand. There will also be cases where Selvala gets Shriekmawed and you just got two for one'd. That being said, her biggest advantage is speed; you can't go wrong if you have a tutor for Dreadnought.
Yisan and Nissa both have inbuilt card advantage and can go the distance in grindy matchups.
The Official Banlist
- Ancestral Recall
- Ancient Tomb
- Balance
- Back to Basics
- Black Lotus
- Channel
- Chaos Orb
- Entomb
- Falling Star
- Fastbond
- Food Chain
- Gaea’s Cradle
- Gifts Ungiven
- Grim Monolith
- Grindstone
- Hermit Druid
- Humility
- Imperial Seal
- Karakas
- Library of Alexandria
- Loyal Retainers
- Mana Crypt
- Mana Drain
- Mana Vault
- Mind Twist
- Mishra’s Workshop
- Mox Emerald
- Mox Jet
- Mox Pearl
- Mox Ruby
- Mox Sapphire
- Mystical Tutor
- Natural Order
- Necropotence
- Oath of Druids
- Protean Hulk
- Serra Ascendant
- Sensei’s Divning Top
- Shahrazad
- Sol Ring
- Strip Mine
- The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
- Time Vault
- Time Walk
- Tinker
- Tolarian Academy
- Vampiric Tutor
- Yawgmoth’s Bargain
Ante cards are also banned.The following cards are also banned from being played as a commander:
Most Recent Banlist Update Announcement
April 3, 2016
Other Helpful Resources
Duel Commander banlist explanation
Please post reasons when stating your opinion on the banlist, or on the suggestions of other users.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
Because multiplayer commander may be the primary way in which commander gets played but how many areas need to be reserved just for multiplayer commander? It is assumed that unmarked threads are multiplayer commander but there should be no reason that DC or other variant ways of playing commander cant use these areas.
Think about it this way, if DC were to ever scale up its traffic it would make posting all of its content within its subforum awkward because things would get bumped off page quickly. It is good to set up these sort of things for any and every format of commander able to use them because of this.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
In the dealing with all the blue decks thread it was discussed that more agressive creature based decks can defeat control but certain decks are such a hard matchup that these aggro decks are rarely played. Marath was mentioned by 3drinks as a "bouncer" for aggro decks in the format and a few others said something similarly. Personally I think it's the super fast combo decks like Sidisi.
I'd like to see the discussion continued. Jiv put a stop to the discussion in that thread because it was off topic and mentioned that this is the thread for that discussion.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
lands not included
Card Name Decks
Jace, the Mind Sculptor 51 %
Brainstorm 50 %
Counterspell 48 %
Mana Leak 47 %
Remand 46 %
Preordain 45 %
Dig Through Time 45 %
Force of Will 45 %
Miscalculation 44 %
Memory Lapse 43 %
That says a lot about the format xD, sadly the last bans simply made blue way too strong to fight against, Craddle got a ban with Yisan, which I didn't get why both had the ban, and not left one to first see first what would happen.. (The only tier 1 deck that uses Craddle consistently is Marath)
Anyway, DTT and Treasure Cruise are opressive, I play blue and I know that a successful cast of any of those is huge C.A for tiny cost. FoW gets less stronger if they can't refill their hands with undercosted spells, since if you 2-for-1, but can't consistently make up for that, you have trouble later on the game.
Going a little under on the list
Sylvan Library 42.6 % 1.0
Cryptic Command 40.9 % 1.0
Snapcaster Mage 39.7 % 1.0
Mystic Confluence 39.3 % 1.0
Treasure Cruise 38.8 % 1.0
Fact or Fiction 37.6 % 1.0
Gitaxian Probe 37.6 % 1.0
Eternal Witness 36.8 % 1.0
Ponder 36.4 % 1.0
Swords to Plowshares 36.4 % 1.0
The first non-blue cards, anyway that gives out a nice idea what is happening to the meta, I remember doing this same review 3 months ago, it the top played cards were something like, 45% blue, 35% green, 20% black. Now its like 90% blue, 10% rest.
I don't agree with color balancing as focus of the banlist, like the last banlist was, I prefer to go for archetype balance, it is much more healthy to go that direction since it is a mostly multicolored format, then trying to balance colors out. You can balance color out and have 80% control 20% rest, which will be a really unbalanced format, while I prefer decks to be 50% blue-something, but with archetypes balanced, which isn't also the case lately...
Honestly, titania being so prevalent is not a surprise to me. It is one of the few types of green decks that could withstand cradle getting banned, the other type being pure ramp with Nissa. Elfball is dead and buried. Banning cradle was a mistake, they should ban marath and bring cradle back.
Jace is a problem to this format. A serious one. I hope they realize that and ban the card. Dedicated high tide jace lists play like control decks and punish decks that don't interact with the stack, forcing the meta even more towards blue. That's insane. Not only that, Jace easily gets down to 50 cards in his library within some turns of the game, which gives it a level of consistency other decks simply can't compete with.
I think banning Jenara is wrong, despite her good numbers. If we ban jenara we won't stop until there are only terrible commanders in BANT colors, because the issue is that the combination of colors is too strong, not the general itself.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
In my opinion if the current way of format updates does not change, the format will not succeed.
Jace has been in the format for longer than 3 months as well, he was released in Magic Origins, he won two of the two online tournaments we had, won the last demonic tournament and his numbers keep picking up and up. I really don't know what card you're talking about that we didn't wait 3 months to adapt. There are no cards in SOI that are a concern, all the talkings of banning and unbanning are from older cards.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
I was pretty surprised to learn that sideboards weren't allowed in a tournament heavy format. It really seems this is a must and it would resolve stuff internally at the metagame level no?
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
You can't cantrip your way for answers and attempting to remove him lets Leovold find a counterspell to counter your spell. Versus control his second ability seems more pertinent to Leovold getting targetted than anything else since it lets you easily outgrind any control deck in the format who is forced to waste cards dealing with him.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
Leovold's first ability won't do much to interact with Narset/Wanderer either, especially since the former doesn't rely on cantrips or drawing as much as Jace or Keranos.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
So you're saying....gasp...that we might have a balanced BUG general?
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
It's not even like he makes control unviable as:
a) He's control
b) He only hurts some control decks
c) Control will find a way
I'm very pleased with him.
I think that overall Leo is weaker than Tasi and has more bad matchups. Which is quite sad because Jace would have crushed Tasi, but in turn now gets crushed by Leovold.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I think he's pushed in the same way Anafenza is pushed, which is to say very powerful but probably safe.
Elf, easy potential for absurd level ramp very easily, multiple infinites (Umbral Mantle being the lead one).
50/50? I'd say closer to 60/40 for her banning. She is Yisan, but trades extreme mana ramp instead of tutoring.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Yisan and Nissa both have inbuilt card advantage and can go the distance in grindy matchups.
She is not Yisan, she is the next best Rofellos.
1. Jace High Tide Control
2. 5CC Horde Scapeshift
3. Selvala Channel Emrakul
4. Selvala GW Combo
5. Keranos Wildfire
Damia (EDH)
Niv-Mizzet (EDH)
Karador the Hermit Druid (EDH)