It adds an additional rule, and associated cognitive load. It requires another "except" to a rule that is otherwise easy to explain ("You can't have mana symbols on your cards that aren't on your commander").
That's a downside.
(Also, it's a change. That's not disqualifying, but it means you need to overcome an inherent barrier.)
Thats fair. I still wish I could use hybrid mana but that is fair reason.
Restrictive rules and allocating rules do differ in some ways though too. If someone is less familiar with a rule that is opening an avenue of play its less feels bad than if someone breaks out a rule mid game that you did wrong. In a lot of cases with a rule that is including more playable cards it would be a matter of the first time they would see it they would ask a question and the person playing it could point to the new rule.
My own reasons for wishing for hybrid mana is 100% selfish reasons and I will accept that. Personally I really like playing a lot of mono colored decks as well as 2 color decks which is part of why I really wish I had access to some of the cool and on flavor hybrid stuff. My own style of play though is in the minority of players though (playing with less colors) and my reasons for wanting access to them is often niche and cool interactions rather than staples and more power.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Sorry but I don't really get your point. Yes, flavor is ambiguous, but nobody is arguing that hybrid should be allowed to be played as intended because of flavor. The intent of hybrid is not ambiguous at all either, as it is clearly explained by Maro himself. Also, those who favor the current ruling claim the execution of the intent fails, but nobody is questioning the intent itself.
It's true that color identity up until now equalled at least the color indicators, but that's only because hybrid mana so far is the only mechanic where doing it differently makes sense.
The intent is clear and needs no questioning. The reason we keep harping on the failure of the execution is because you should not ever base a rule solely on intent and when intent and execution conflict, execution trumps over intent the same way gameplay trumps over flavor.
Just accepting hybrids into the format doesn't resolve the conflict because execution is based on the comprehensive rules. To resolve the conflict we must either completely ignore one conflicting factor or another (we're basically completely ignoring intent now). To ignore execution in its entirely means EDH needs to adopt the "Divinity of Pride can be Doom Bladed if it was cast for WWWWW". The same way R&D chose not to follow design intent for Hybrid themselves because it requires too much work/memorizing, the Committee does so, except that they need to craft those rules for a singular format (whereas R&D would have covered the whole game uniformly).
Ironically it's because EDH cares about flavor (of color) that the conflict MUST be completely resolved, otherwise we will be just like every other format, accepting these "gold hybrids" without paying full respect to the design intent/flavor.
I guess we kind of established that the argument is arbitrary, and becuase of that, seeing as how both papa_funk and Sheldon feel different about this issue than I and ISB_Pathfinder do, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. At least I will. Like I said earlier, it's not an issue I'm losing any sleep over, I hope for ISBPathfinder he doesn't either.
@ISBPathfinder: Most people I played with actually don't mind if you play hybrid in mono color: you could just put it in your deck and see if the people you play with have a problem with it beforehand. If you make sure you'll have a proper replacement if they do, you can probably still play your deck including the hybrids 95% of the time.
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Well if more and more people start playing hybrid in their monocolor deck, I'm sure opinions will change.
Just because a few hybrids don't work as the color pie suggested doesn't mean all the apples are bad. BTW, cards like Golgari Guildmage and Yasova Dragoclaw and the like are clearly multicolor for EDH, so no one is actually discussing this section of cards.
I'm not sure why people are bringing up Phyrexian Mana to argue against Hybrid. Phyrexian mana still requires you to be in the Commander's colors to play it. No one is actively seeking to play off-color cards (except for the one that asks to play a WB card in a UB commander deck).
As for Beseech, it's still a black card. It's not colorless in any way, cept that you can pay more for it in your black/x deck.
If taking the step of allowing hybrid, why not just go all the way? For example, the rule could be something like:
"The color identity of any card in your deck may not solely include colors which are not in your commander's color identity."
Or the RC could just abolish the CI rule altogether.
They could also abolish the singletons rule because it is too restrictive and Magic wasn't meant to be be played as a singletons format, and get rid of the general because the exile and command zones weren't meant to be interacted with. As papa funk said, there isn't a compelling reason to remove any portion of the color identity rule. The rule itself is one of the core tenets of the format, so although the best argument for allowing hybrids is to remove the rule altogether, it seems unlikely that the RC has any interest in removing one of the things that makes the format unique and different from regular Magic.
If taking the step of allowing hybrid, why not just go all the way? For example, the rule could be something like:
"The color identity of any card in your deck may not solely include colors which are not in your commander's color identity."
Or the RC could just abolish the CI rule altogether.
They could also abolish the singletons rule because it is too restrictive and Magic wasn't meant to be be played as a singletons format, and get rid of the general because the exile and command zones weren't meant to be interacted with. As papa funk said, there isn't a compelling reason to remove any portion of the color identity rule. The rule itself is one of the core tenets of the format, so although the best argument for allowing hybrids is to remove the rule altogether, it seems unlikely that the RC has any interest in removing one of the things that makes the format unique and different from regular Magic.
I mean, yeah, exactly. It's a different format, then. It doesn't matter in the end, but there's not really a good reason for the change.
Thats fair. I still wish I could use hybrid mana but that is fair reason.
Restrictive rules and allocating rules do differ in some ways though too. If someone is less familiar with a rule that is opening an avenue of play its less feels bad than if someone breaks out a rule mid game that you did wrong. In a lot of cases with a rule that is including more playable cards it would be a matter of the first time they would see it they would ask a question and the person playing it could point to the new rule.
My own reasons for wishing for hybrid mana is 100% selfish reasons and I will accept that. Personally I really like playing a lot of mono colored decks as well as 2 color decks which is part of why I really wish I had access to some of the cool and on flavor hybrid stuff. My own style of play though is in the minority of players though (playing with less colors) and my reasons for wanting access to them is often niche and cool interactions rather than staples and more power.
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The intent is clear and needs no questioning. The reason we keep harping on the failure of the execution is because you should not ever base a rule solely on intent and when intent and execution conflict, execution trumps over intent the same way gameplay trumps over flavor.
Just accepting hybrids into the format doesn't resolve the conflict because execution is based on the comprehensive rules. To resolve the conflict we must either completely ignore one conflicting factor or another (we're basically completely ignoring intent now). To ignore execution in its entirely means EDH needs to adopt the "Divinity of Pride can be Doom Bladed if it was cast for WWWWW". The same way R&D chose not to follow design intent for Hybrid themselves because it requires too much work/memorizing, the Committee does so, except that they need to craft those rules for a singular format (whereas R&D would have covered the whole game uniformly).
Ironically it's because EDH cares about flavor (of color) that the conflict MUST be completely resolved, otherwise we will be just like every other format, accepting these "gold hybrids" without paying full respect to the design intent/flavor.
@ISBPathfinder: Most people I played with actually don't mind if you play hybrid in mono color: you could just put it in your deck and see if the people you play with have a problem with it beforehand. If you make sure you'll have a proper replacement if they do, you can probably still play your deck including the hybrids 95% of the time.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Just because a few hybrids don't work as the color pie suggested doesn't mean all the apples are bad. BTW, cards like Golgari Guildmage and Yasova Dragoclaw and the like are clearly multicolor for EDH, so no one is actually discussing this section of cards.
I'm not sure why people are bringing up Phyrexian Mana to argue against Hybrid. Phyrexian mana still requires you to be in the Commander's colors to play it. No one is actively seeking to play off-color cards (except for the one that asks to play a WB card in a UB commander deck).
As for Beseech, it's still a black card. It's not colorless in any way, cept that you can pay more for it in your black/x deck.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
"The color identity of any card in your deck may not solely include colors which are not in your commander's color identity."
Or the RC could just abolish the CI rule altogether.
They could also abolish the singletons rule because it is too restrictive and Magic wasn't meant to be be played as a singletons format, and get rid of the general because the exile and command zones weren't meant to be interacted with. As papa funk said, there isn't a compelling reason to remove any portion of the color identity rule. The rule itself is one of the core tenets of the format, so although the best argument for allowing hybrids is to remove the rule altogether, it seems unlikely that the RC has any interest in removing one of the things that makes the format unique and different from regular Magic.
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I mean, yeah, exactly. It's a different format, then. It doesn't matter in the end, but there's not really a good reason for the change.