Why not do a poll for a card that actually needs banning? (Hint: no cards at the moment are necessary for banning) Like I predicted about a week ago, the cards up for ban discussion are getting more and more outrageously stupid. If this continues any further this the more it damages what is left of Commander player's integrity.
Pretty sure that Macius was joking. I suppose everybody takes playful jibes too seriously
...and yet you continue participating in this thread. In fact, as of this post, you're the 25th most active poster on this thread (in terms of unique post-count).
Again, this is all done in good fun -- notwithstanding some posters that are taking these discussions waaaay too seriously. Nobody is actually forcing you to enter this thread and this thread is not really affecting you in any significant way, is it?
This thread effects Commander as a whole because it makes Commander players and the format itself look really stupid. That is why I am posting. I am not joining in on the discussion of whatever ridiculous card you guys think need banning. Just stoppin by to ask to stop the madness here. I mean, first a poll for Jhoira then someone mentioned Kaalia!? This has turned into a complete joke, and I fail to see the all in good fun aspect when it is this absurd.
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I mean, first a poll for Jhoira then someone mentioned Kaalia!? This has turned into a complete joke, and I fail to see the all in good fun aspect when it is this absurd.
That person was most likely joking. You are taking this thread way too seriously.
On topic: -
Many players are comparing Jhoira to Erayo, which is understandable. On the other hand, I'd like to think that the difference is, while an explosive start by Jhoira would end the game in short order, an explosive start by Erayo would end the game... in a long and tedious sequence.
I think in a lot of ways EDH is a self-regulating community. Johira doesn't need to be banned because of a lot of the social stigma surrounding her and the kind of deck she is usually associated with. She doesn't warp the format because so few people actually sleeve up and play her. The same is true of several generals. Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and Sharuum the Hegemon are among this group that elicit potential groans or paint a target because people generally know what to expect when someone brings them to the table. Perhaps they sometimes receive some unfair amounts of 'attention' (I never bothered to actually build Sharuum because of how many times I was instantly targeted by everyone on Cockatrice) but I think in some ways this keeps them in check.
In other words, I think someone might have a potential argument saying Johira was boring or annoying. It's certainly understandable how someone would feel that way. However, like many generals, she doesn't affect the format nearly enough to warrant a ban. She doesn't leave enough of a mark to consistently and commonly create a "not fun game state." Competitive? Cutthroat? Maybe. Ban worthy? No.
With all due respect, your incessant complains are not making Commander players look any smarter either.
That person was most likely joking. You are taking this thread way too seriously.
On topic: -
Many players are comparing Jhoira to Erayo, which is understandable. On the other hand, I'd like to think that the difference is, while an explosive start by Jhoira would end the game in short order, an explosive start by Erayo would end the game... in a long and tedious sequence.
So if something sucks, I have no right to say anything about it? When has having valid complaints been the bane of all existence on the internet?
I would like to add that this entire thread is a complaint thread, if you didn't notice.
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As much as fattyluvboat rubs me the wrong way, he actually has a point here. I don't know what the mods were thinking, but I have no idea how we got to discussing Jhoira on this thread. Why not discuss more relevant cards like Metalworker, Staff of Domination, or hell even Gaea's Cradle?
If you want my thoughts on Jhoira, they're easy to sum up: she is a one-trick pony. After blindsiding a playgroup with Jhoira, people quickly wise up to her antics and she gets very quickly hated on from then on out. Jhoira was one the first few generals I messed around with in Commander when I first started playing and it quickly became clear to me that every game was going to result in "Have Jhoira survive, suspend nasty stuff, survive to the time the suspended spells resolve, and win." Jhoira has long been an infamous commander, but so have Arcum/Zur/Azami/Sharuum. And they're not in danger of a banning either.
As much as fattyluvboat rubs me the wrong way, he actually has a point here. I don't know what the mods were thinking, but I have no idea how we got to discussing Jhoira on this thread. Why not discuss more relevant cards like Metalworker, Staff of Domination, or hell even Gaea's Cradle?
If you want my thoughts on Jhoira, they're easy to sum up: she is a one-trick pony. After blindsiding a playgroup with Jhoira, people quickly wise up to her antics and she gets very quickly hated on from then on out. Jhoira was one the first few generals I messed around with in Commander when I first started playing and it quickly became clear to me that every game was going to result in "Have Jhoira survive, suspend nasty stuff, survive to the time the suspended spells resolve, and win." Jhoira has long been an infamous commander, but so have Arcum/Zur/Azami/Sharuum. And they're not in danger of a banning either.
Exactly, Jhoira was one of the first Commanders I ever tried to build around 4 years ago and I quickly realized how linear she is. As much as I can't stand the optimal build of Jhoira, if she actually got banned I couldn't take this seriously anymore. Not that I do much anyways, but still there has to be some shred of integrity left with the ban list.
Any of those cards Chaos mentioned would be a million times better than Jhoira.
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So if something sucks, I have no right to say anything about it?
Ah, so now we are getting somewhere. Basically, you are allowed to complain if you think that something is bad but when other people starts complaining on a card that you believe is fine, they make Commander players look dumb?
I would like to add that this entire thread is a complaint thread, if you didn't notice.
It is a thread complaining about certain cards that are perceived to be broken, not a thread to complain about why complain threads are bad. I believe I did explain the rationale of this thread to you a while back but if you still don't get it, I don't think there's much can do about it.
As much as fattyluvboat rubs me the wrong way, he actually has a point here. I don't know what the mods were thinking, but I have no idea how we got to discussing Jhoira on this thread. Why not discuss more relevant cards like Metalworker, Staff of Domination, or hell even Gaea's Cradle?
To be fair, the discussion on Jhoira initiated when somebody pointed out how the RC has mentioned Jhoira during the banning of Wordlfire: -
...IIRC during the dicussion of Worldfire, I think one of the RC may have commented baout taking a look at her,but since it was months ago I may be incorrect in my memory
When a member of the RC decides that "keep an eye out" for Jhoira, I believe that the discussion just took off from there.
I am surprised people are not going crazy after they noticed sheldon voted for banned as a commander. I guess people have gotten over the sky is falling attitude every time a RC member says something.
Anyhow as far as Jhoira goes. I think it is really a meta thing, if you want to play that way there are ton of other generals just as bad or worse. And it is pretty easy to gang up on them and kill them. Which does get old fast. But hardly a bannable offense. As plenty of generals can have that effect. She broadcasts what she is going to do well before it happens and in my experience you can just kill the person before suspends wear off.
Ah, so now we are getting somewhere. Basically, you are allowed to complain if you think that something is bad but when other people starts complaining on a card that you believe is fine, they make Commander players look dumb?
Actually, according to your logic, your misplaced complains make Commander players sound really stupid.
Actually, you are 100 percent correct. If obvious card is obviously not ban worthy, than I would expect only complaints about how stupid it is to have a discussion about it. I would hope that anyone should be allowed to complain about obvious asinine choices of cards like Jhoira of the Ghitu to ban.
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Jhoira has a lot of area to cover as a red and blue general with several more combo potentials. Part of the issue becomes while she's "linear" she can be explosive and annoying and manipulates a zone that's hard to interact with when it comes to suspend.
Kaalia as a general just summons large fat into play, but has to actually swing and can go splat without back up. The longer the game goes on, especially in multiplier the more she runs out of gas. There's several ways to cheat out fat in the format, and several ways to chew the fat. She's not really all that much of a problem in a multiplier. Kaalia's on the battlefield, her summonses are off a triggered ability, and you can still smack the creature before it connects with the person when placed in as well as wrath on your turn.
Grand Augustin is a tax general, and encourages a certain type of play, but isn't exactly used as much as Sharuum. Sharuum is a combo deck, extremely popular, and can go off at certain intervals and improves with each artifact set rather easily.
Jhoira and Sharuum's colors, but one would also have to have a look at Zur under the same criterion since Zur with phasing and the like becomes stupid.
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Actually, you are 100 percent correct. If obvious card is obviously not ban worthy, than I would expect only complaints about how stupid it is to have a discussion about it. I would hope that anyone should be allowed to complain about obvious asinine choices of cards like Jhoira of the Ghitu to ban.
Well, that makes sense, but if it's been discussed for banning by the RC then I think it's pretty fair to discuss it here, even if it's just to show the RC that people don't want it banned.
I think there are a decent number of people who want it banned, but that's probably just because it's a fairly competitive commander and they're probably in casual playgroups. It all comes back to group self-policing.
Well, that makes sense, but if it's been discussed for banning by the RC then I think it's pretty fair to discuss it here
Thats what I figured and why I brought it up,my train of thought went "Oh WF got banned and one of the generals brought up durin the dicussion was Jhoira and Sheldon said he was keeping an eye on it,so what does the rest of the hive mind feel"
It really irks me that for whatever reason all of a sudden Sheldon says the RC or himself personally will keep an eye on Jhoira. She has been a commmander for years and years now, what is the big woop?
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It really irks me that for whatever reason all of a sudden Sheldon says the RC or himself personally will keep an eye on Jhoira. She has been a commmander for years and years now, what is the big woop?
Maybe he had his eye on her for a while. It was only in passing that he mentioned it, and doesn't necessarily mean that this is a new card he's watching.
Do you actually have anything to add to the discussion? This is the seventh post you've made complaining since the new poll started yesterday, and the closest you've come to anything relevant to the topic was that she's linear. I realize that I'm not adding to the thread, but seriously, you're just spamming the thread with your usual inane complaints about how everyone is complaining.
Maybe he had his eye on her for a while. It was only in passing that he mentioned it, and doesn't necessarily mean that this is a new card he's watching.
Do you actually have anything to add to the discussion? This is the seventh post you've made complaining since the new poll started yesterday, and the closest you've come to anything relevant to the topic was that she's linear. I realize that I'm not adding to the thread, but seriously, you're just spamming the thread with your usual inane complaints about how everyone is complaining.
There isn't much to add to a discussion about something as completely stupid as talking about Jhoira being banned. I would really rather not. It is just shockingly and stunningly bad that this even exists in the first place. That was all I was trying to say.
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Second, these polls run for three days. There is a time and date on each one indicating when it will close. Asking for a new poll after two days will not actually speed things up, because we do let the polls run until their conclusion.
Each poll is open for 72 hours. The date given is the date on which it closed. The question in each case is "Do you think this card should be banned in Commander?"
Card: Protean Hulk
Legality at time of poll: Banned
A friend of mine runs Jhoira. Bastard of a deck to play against. Usually what I name for Pithing Needle and Nevermore. But the fact of the matter is I have Nevermore and Pithing Needle and Countermagic, and a range of other ways to deal with her. I think she should stay.
There isn't much to add to a discussion about something as completely stupid as talking about Jhoira being banned. I would really rather not. It is just shockingly and stunningly bad that this even exists in the first place. That was all I was trying to say.
Then offer some sort of argument in your favor that's better than she's been a commander for ages. *****ing about it doesn't sway anyone in your direction. That's what he/she is saying.
Also on the "She's been a general for ages" so was Erayo. I'm still glad she's gone.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Commanders playability differs too much from 1vs1 to MP, I don't see many commanders being a problem in MP (erayo, braids for sure), the biggest treath always get focused hard. The two cards commander's combo get very predictable, Teferi/pool is hard to deal with because the lack of instants to prevent it. I don't like to see more commander banns.
There isn't much to add to a discussion about something as completely stupid as talking about Jhoira being banned. I would really rather not. It is just shockingly and stunningly bad that this even exists in the first place. That was all I was trying to say.
Is the ground cold, or is fattyluvboat right for once?
Seriously, are we so desperate for poll targets that Jhoira is on the table?
EDIT: To further this discussion, I've lost only one game aganst Jhoira. Because Pithing Needle and removal are a thing.
Signed, it really starts to be ridicolous.
I hope so.
This thread effects Commander as a whole because it makes Commander players and the format itself look really stupid. That is why I am posting. I am not joining in on the discussion of whatever ridiculous card you guys think need banning. Just stoppin by to ask to stop the madness here. I mean, first a poll for Jhoira then someone mentioned Kaalia!? This has turned into a complete joke, and I fail to see the all in good fun aspect when it is this absurd.
Be the giver or the undertaker
Unlock and open the door
Be the healer or the breaker
The keys are in your hands
Realize you are your own source of all creation
BOf your own master planB
With all due respect, your incessant complains are not making Commander players look any smarter either.
That person was most likely joking. You are taking this thread way too seriously.
On topic: -
Many players are comparing Jhoira to Erayo, which is understandable. On the other hand, I'd like to think that the difference is, while an explosive start by Jhoira would end the game in short order, an explosive start by Erayo would end the game... in a long and tedious sequence.
In other words, I think someone might have a potential argument saying Johira was boring or annoying. It's certainly understandable how someone would feel that way. However, like many generals, she doesn't affect the format nearly enough to warrant a ban. She doesn't leave enough of a mark to consistently and commonly create a "not fun game state." Competitive? Cutthroat? Maybe. Ban worthy? No.
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So if something sucks, I have no right to say anything about it? When has having valid complaints been the bane of all existence on the internet?
I would like to add that this entire thread is a complaint thread, if you didn't notice.
Be the giver or the undertaker
Unlock and open the door
Be the healer or the breaker
The keys are in your hands
Realize you are your own source of all creation
BOf your own master planB
If you want my thoughts on Jhoira, they're easy to sum up: she is a one-trick pony. After blindsiding a playgroup with Jhoira, people quickly wise up to her antics and she gets very quickly hated on from then on out. Jhoira was one the first few generals I messed around with in Commander when I first started playing and it quickly became clear to me that every game was going to result in "Have Jhoira survive, suspend nasty stuff, survive to the time the suspended spells resolve, and win." Jhoira has long been an infamous commander, but so have Arcum/Zur/Azami/Sharuum. And they're not in danger of a banning either.
Exactly, Jhoira was one of the first Commanders I ever tried to build around 4 years ago and I quickly realized how linear she is. As much as I can't stand the optimal build of Jhoira, if she actually got banned I couldn't take this seriously anymore. Not that I do much anyways, but still there has to be some shred of integrity left with the ban list.
Any of those cards Chaos mentioned would be a million times better than Jhoira.
Be the giver or the undertaker
Unlock and open the door
Be the healer or the breaker
The keys are in your hands
Realize you are your own source of all creation
BOf your own master planB
Ah, so now we are getting somewhere. Basically, you are allowed to complain if you think that something is bad but when other people starts complaining on a card that you believe is fine, they make Commander players look dumb?
Actually, according to your logic, your misplaced complains make Commander players sound really stupid.
It is a thread complaining about certain cards that are perceived to be broken, not a thread to complain about why complain threads are bad. I believe I did explain the rationale of this thread to you a while back but if you still don't get it, I don't think there's much can do about it.
To be fair, the discussion on Jhoira initiated when somebody pointed out how the RC has mentioned Jhoira during the banning of Wordlfire: -
When a member of the RC decides that "keep an eye out" for Jhoira, I believe that the discussion just took off from there.
I am surprised people are not going crazy after they noticed sheldon voted for banned as a commander. I guess people have gotten over the sky is falling attitude every time a RC member says something.
Anyhow as far as Jhoira goes. I think it is really a meta thing, if you want to play that way there are ton of other generals just as bad or worse. And it is pretty easy to gang up on them and kill them. Which does get old fast. But hardly a bannable offense. As plenty of generals can have that effect. She broadcasts what she is going to do well before it happens and in my experience you can just kill the person before suspends wear off.
Actually, you are 100 percent correct. If obvious card is obviously not ban worthy, than I would expect only complaints about how stupid it is to have a discussion about it. I would hope that anyone should be allowed to complain about obvious asinine choices of cards like Jhoira of the Ghitu to ban.
Be the giver or the undertaker
Unlock and open the door
Be the healer or the breaker
The keys are in your hands
Realize you are your own source of all creation
BOf your own master planB
Kaalia as a general just summons large fat into play, but has to actually swing and can go splat without back up. The longer the game goes on, especially in multiplier the more she runs out of gas. There's several ways to cheat out fat in the format, and several ways to chew the fat. She's not really all that much of a problem in a multiplier. Kaalia's on the battlefield, her summonses are off a triggered ability, and you can still smack the creature before it connects with the person when placed in as well as wrath on your turn.
Grand Augustin is a tax general, and encourages a certain type of play, but isn't exactly used as much as Sharuum. Sharuum is a combo deck, extremely popular, and can go off at certain intervals and improves with each artifact set rather easily.
Jhoira and Sharuum's colors, but one would also have to have a look at Zur under the same criterion since Zur with phasing and the like becomes stupid.
Ambition must be made to counteract ambition.
Individualities may form communities, but it is institutions alone that can create a nation.
Nothing succeeds like the appearance of success.
Here is my principle: Taxes shall be levied according to ability to pay. That is the only American principle.
Well, that makes sense, but if it's been discussed for banning by the RC then I think it's pretty fair to discuss it here, even if it's just to show the RC that people don't want it banned.
I think there are a decent number of people who want it banned, but that's probably just because it's a fairly competitive commander and they're probably in casual playgroups. It all comes back to group self-policing.
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Thats what I figured and why I brought it up,my train of thought went "Oh WF got banned and one of the generals brought up durin the dicussion was Jhoira and Sheldon said he was keeping an eye on it,so what does the rest of the hive mind feel"
Be the giver or the undertaker
Unlock and open the door
Be the healer or the breaker
The keys are in your hands
Realize you are your own source of all creation
BOf your own master planB
Maybe he had his eye on her for a while. It was only in passing that he mentioned it, and doesn't necessarily mean that this is a new card he's watching.
Do you actually have anything to add to the discussion? This is the seventh post you've made complaining since the new poll started yesterday, and the closest you've come to anything relevant to the topic was that she's linear. I realize that I'm not adding to the thread, but seriously, you're just spamming the thread with your usual inane complaints about how everyone is complaining.
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There isn't much to add to a discussion about something as completely stupid as talking about Jhoira being banned. I would really rather not. It is just shockingly and stunningly bad that this even exists in the first place. That was all I was trying to say.
Be the giver or the undertaker
Unlock and open the door
Be the healer or the breaker
The keys are in your hands
Realize you are your own source of all creation
BOf your own master planB
No. Not yet, at least: -
Been there; done that: -
On a bit of a tangent, has anyone had any luck with Venser's Diffusion?
Then offer some sort of argument in your favor that's better than she's been a commander for ages. *****ing about it doesn't sway anyone in your direction. That's what he/she is saying.
Also on the "She's been a general for ages" so was Erayo. I'm still glad she's gone.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Is the ground cold, or is fattyluvboat right for once?
Seriously, are we so desperate for poll targets that Jhoira is on the table?
EDIT: To further this discussion, I've lost only one game aganst Jhoira. Because Pithing Needle and removal are a thing.
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Who are you to question the mob mentality? BURN THE HERETIC!
Next on the list is Sol Ring! And then Strip Mine! And Zur! And Kaalia! And Thromak! And Child of Alara!
Poll them all. Ban them all.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!