To me, 'Barrier of Entry' means I sit down at a table and see a bunch of players running card X which because of its price makes it hard for me to afford. And although I can find a card that is an acceptable replacement, if I want to better compete against these players, I need to run that card. I 100% agree that the Moxen fall into that category, but when you're talking about a card at that current price point and availability, my prediction is that it won't have much of an impact on Commander. No, to me the real barrier of entry cards are the ABU duals and fetchlands. There are enough of them that it is common to see in any given group, they are expensive enough that your average player probably doesn't want to shell out for any if they don't already own some, and your deck is worse if you don't run them. Saying that you can just run a shockland or Terramorphic Expanse is no different than saying you can just run a different card if you can't afford a Mox.
That's all well and good, but to a casual observer what is the difference between not being able to afford a $3000 Mox vs. not being able to afford a $100 Academy Rector? Many players (dare I say, most?) cannot afford to spend a $100 on a single card, so anything more than that might as well cost $1,000,000 for all they care. Whatever the RC's intentions, they will have to reckon with the fact that sooner rather than later a lot of potential EDH players are going to be priced out of the format. Like, even non-Reserved List cards like Doubling Season are so pricey I see people say "man I really wish I could afford that card for my deck". Something is wrong here.
Yep, I said the same thing 4 years ago. I've been arguing that PBtE should go away for quite some time now. Where we differ is that I don't think price should play a factor at all, especially now that we are seeing sub-dollar crap RL cards spike to $20 overnight, and actual playable cards double and triple in price. Why penalize the players with the older cards or deeper wallets just because prices go up?
Why penalize the players with the older cards or deeper wallets just because prices go up?
I understand that playing otherwise unplayable cards is a large part of the appeal of EDH. But not being able to build even a moderately competitive deck without shelling out hundreds or thousands of dollars isn't where we want to be either. I legitimately don't have any good ideas on how to go about tackling this problem, but it's something we'll have to do in the near future if prices keep ballooning they way they have been.
I notice you mention the ABUR Duals, but I don't see the problem with running Shocks which are for the most part functionally identical because the 2 life is almost always irrelevant in EDH. And the Shocks and Fetches can be reprinted until their price drops to a reasonable level. The biggest offenders in my eyes are the fairly obvious "mistake" cards like Survival of the Fittest, Academy Rector, and Gate to Phyrexia. They're either uniquely powerful effects or Color Pie violations, and either way we'll probably never see another card similar to them at a comparable mana cost. Sure they're strictly worse, but at least Shocklands do a pretty good impression of the Duals. The same cannot be said of Fauna Shaman or Lost Auramancers or... I can't even think of a mono-black stand-in for Gate to Phyrexia. My point is the drop-off from cards on the RL to the next best option is often far, far steeper than Duals to Shocks, which is laughably tame by comparison.
I understand that playing otherwise unplayable cards is a large part of the appeal of EDH. But not being able to build even a moderately competitive deck without shelling out hundreds or thousands of dollars isn't where we want to be either. I legitimately don't have any good ideas on how to go about tackling this problem, but it's something we'll have to do in the near future if prices keep ballooning they way they have been.
I notice you mention the ABUR Duals, but I don't see the problem with running Shocks which are for the most part functionally identical because the 2 life is almost always irrelevant in EDH. And the Shocks and Fetches can be reprinted until their price drops to a reasonable level. The biggest offenders in my eyes are the fairly obvious "mistake" cards like Survival of the Fittest, Academy Rector, and Gate to Phyrexia. They're either uniquely powerful effects or Color Pie violations, and either way we'll probably never see another card similar to them at a comparable mana cost. Sure they're strictly worse, but at least Shocklands do a pretty good impression of the Duals. The same cannot be said of Fauna Shaman or Lost Auramancers or... I can't even think of a mono-black stand-in for Gate to Phyrexia. My point is the drop-off from cards on the RL to the next best option is often far, far steeper than Duals to Shocks, which is laughably tame by comparison.
Boo boo. I want to play golf or street race my Honda Civic but I can't afford to be competitive without the best equipment. If you want to compete, you need the best equipment at whatever cost. The RC can't be concerned about tracking pricing data and whether a card wins a Pro Tour Qualifier d spike in price or a largely unplayed RL card gets bought out by speculators. (Amusingly, Gate to Phyrexia was a $5 card not long ago.)
The RC can't be concerned about tracking pricing data and whether a card wins a Pro Tour Qualifier d spike in price or a largely unplayed RL card gets bought out by speculators.
They can, however, be concerned if they lose a large portion of their player base because people don't want to bother paying exorbitant amounts of money.
I understand that playing otherwise unplayable cards is a large part of the appeal of EDH. But not being able to build even a moderately competitive deck without shelling out hundreds or thousands of dollars isn't where we want to be either. I legitimately don't have any good ideas on how to go about tackling this problem, but it's something we'll have to do in the near future if prices keep ballooning they way they have been.
I notice you mention the ABUR Duals, but I don't see the problem with running Shocks which are for the most part functionally identical because the 2 life is almost always irrelevant in EDH. And the Shocks and Fetches can be reprinted until their price drops to a reasonable level. The biggest offenders in my eyes are the fairly obvious "mistake" cards like Survival of the Fittest, Academy Rector, and Gate to Phyrexia. They're either uniquely powerful effects or Color Pie violations, and either way we'll probably never see another card similar to them at a comparable mana cost. Sure they're strictly worse, but at least Shocklands do a pretty good impression of the Duals. The same cannot be said of Fauna Shaman or Lost Auramancers or... I can't even think of a mono-black stand-in for Gate to Phyrexia. My point is the drop-off from cards on the RL to the next best option is often far, far steeper than Duals to Shocks, which is laughably tame by comparison.
Boo boo. I want to play golf or street race my Honda Civic but I can't afford to be competitive without the best equipment. If you want to compete, you need the best equipment at whatever cost. The RC can't be concerned about tracking pricing data and whether a card wins a Pro Tour Qualifier d spike in price or a largely unplayed RL card gets bought out by speculators. (Amusingly, Gate to Phyrexia was a $5 card not long ago.)
Or play in a meta that allows the p word.
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Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Whatever the RC's intentions, they will have to reckon with the fact that sooner rather than later a lot of potential EDH players are going to be priced out of the format.
You can build good decks and have fun without playing Reserved List cards.
But yeah, the secondary market for RL right now sucks, and will continue to suck.
I think the only RL card that is both pricy and is close to staple status is Wheel of Fortune.
Cards like Academy Rector are luxery pieces in certain specific styles of decks, enchantment themed in rectors case. You can make that deck without the high end cards or you can make a deck that isn't enchantment heavy and therefore wont play Rector. Wheel is just a generally good card; it's hard to argue that any deck with a red CI wont be improved by playing it.
I don't remember agreeing to that. Why shouldn't price be a valid factor for legality?
Because it is entirely out of the control of the RC? Because why set an arbitrary dollar limit on a card when something could cause that card jump in price over night, thereby banning a card for no reason other than speculators bought it out?
I don't remember agreeing to that. Why shouldn't price be a valid factor for legality?
Because it is entirely out of the control of the RC? Because why set an arbitrary dollar limit on a card when something could cause that card jump in price over night, thereby banning a card for no reason other than speculators bought it out?
Agreed. I mean, there is at least a legitimate reason for the ones currently banned under that criteria. I mean, where would you draw the line that you would be satisfied with? $100? $300? $500?
Because it is entirely out of the control of the RC? Because why set an arbitrary dollar limit on a card when something could cause that card jump in price over night, thereby banning a card for no reason other than speculators bought it out?
Because regardless of how many times you repeat that the PBtE criteria is about "not feeling like Vintage", at the end of the day it's about money and card availability. If in the next few years literally every RL card is bought out until even the most unplayable jank cards are hundreds of dollars, what is the RC supposed to do? Turn a blind eye and pretend that new players aren't at a strict disadvantage?
Because it is entirely out of the control of the RC? Because why set an arbitrary dollar limit on a card when something could cause that card jump in price over night, thereby banning a card for no reason other than speculators bought it out?
Because regardless of how many times you repeat that the PBtE criteria is about "not feeling like Vintage", at the end of the day it's about money and card availability. If in the next few years literally every RL card is bought out until even the most unplayable jank cards are hundreds of dollars, what is the RC supposed to do? Turn a blind eye and pretend that new players aren't at a strict disadvantage?
What would you have them do? Alienate the players that started now or years ago when the format started and say "No, you can't play your Duals, your Cradles, you Moats. You no longer can play your Corpse Dance or Wheel of Fortune." All because the price has become too high for newer players when these cards are eventually bought out; when the price of these cards on the secondary market exceeds some arbitrary limit on card value?
Yes, high card prices suck. But, the RC should not base their ban decisions around monetary value of a given card.
Perceived Barrier to Entry isn't even part of the criteria that the RC uses anymore. There are cards that are there from the beginning that used this criterion but they have stated multiple times that no new cards will be added for this reason in the future. There is no reason for this to change now.
What would you have them do? Alienate the players that started now or years ago when the format started and say "No, you can't play your Duals, your Cradles, you Moats. You no longer can play your Corpse Dance or Wheel of Fortune." All because the price has become too high for newer players when these cards are eventually bought out; when the price of these cards on the secondary market exceeds some arbitrary limit on card value?
Yes, high card prices suck. But, the RC should not base their ban decisions around monetary value of a given card.
Perceived Barrier to Entry isn't even part of the criteria that the RC uses anymore. There are cards that are there from the beginning that used this criterion but they have stated multiple times that no new cards will be added for this reason in the future. There is no reason for this to change now.
It's a complicated question. I legitimately don't know what they should do, which is why I'm asking. I don't think you can just ignore the fact that the cards on the RL are only going to go up. Period. And a lot of those cards are, if not staples in EDH, at least highly played and they fit into a lot of decks.
I am aware the RC has said they won't ban more cards for PBtE and I'm saying if they don't they'll eventually run into the same problem they had when they first put the P9 on there; new players will see older players playing with cards they cannot possibly afford and get scared away from trying out the format. If that's the direction the RC wants to go, that's fine. Maybe EDH is big enough now with the precons every year than new players won't be scared off because they have a relatively easy starting point. Who knows? I honestly have no horse in this race, mainly because I already own most of the cards I want to play with. #oldplayerprivilege. But it's a conversation worth having because I don't think anyone expected the prices of the RL to rise so quickly in just a couple years, and we're coming up on a breaking point in the near future.
It's a complicated question. I legitimately don't know what they should do, which is why I'm asking. I don't think you can just ignore the fact that the cards on the RL are only going to go up. Period. And a lot of those cards are, if not staples in EDH, at least highly played and they fit into a lot of decks.
I disagree about ignoring that card prices are going to go up. Not only *can* the RC ignore it, but on some level they *must* ignore it. They can't be an arbiter in what is acceptable to play based on cost alone. And, again, where is this imaginary line? Does it get set at $1000? Surely that is too much for a "new" player? Do we set it at $500? Maybe more acceptable, but still high. $200?
And then, what happens when the cutoff is $1000 and I pay $900 for a card just for it to go up the next month into banned territory? If it is $500, what happens when I buy a $400 card to have the same thing happen? Duals are wildly different prices depending on the color they produce. Someone who played 20 years ago finds out about EDH, goes back through their collection, finds they have an Underground Sea, Volcanic Island, and Badlands. They decide to make a cool Grixis deck around Nicol Bolas. The first time they play, they are told "hey man, Sea and Island are banned; but Badlands is cool". Their first response is not going to be "oh, well that makes sense. I will cut them right away". No, their first response is going to be "That is idiotic. Why is one dual legal and another banned?". And then they may very well decide this format is not for them and not play it again because that ban criterion is inconsistent.
I get the fear of people feeling like they are priced out of a format. It is an issue and Wizards has the same issue with Legacy. They created Modern as a result. That is the only really avenue for EDH: either it continues as it is and growth slows but remains high enough to get players or a brand new format comes around to replace it. I don't believe there is any way for the current EDH format to implement a drastic change as the one you are proposing (or any change related directly to a card's price) without massive backlash. I don't feel that it will kill the format, but I am pretty sure there will be enough players leaving to be a concern.
On a personal note, I can say that I would probably be one of the people who leaves. Not just EDH but Magic in general. I just want a place to play my cards and I don't like Vintage or Legacy. EDH is the format to use all my cards and if that goes away, I will only have Modern. And I honestly don't think Modern alone is enough for me to keep playing Magic.
I think those of us discussing PBtE banning on a MTG message board may be too deep in the forest to understand what the new to EDH player experience is actually like.
I say this because I do have a VERY expensive deck with many reserve list and foil cards and my other decks don't hold a candle too it price wise. My experiences with newer players is that they really don't know anything about card value. I could hand my pimped out deck to a new player and ask them to pick out the 3 most expensive cards and there is no way they would get it correct.
That's because card value isn't determined only by how good a card is in a commander game; there are so many other factors. Condition, set it's printed in, RI/recent reprint status, use in 4 copy formats, and that's just scratching the surface.
Normally what happens when I play an expensive card is that nobody actually notices. I've had one single player in three years of me playing the deck constantly ever ask to read my Mishra's Workshop to know what it does. They just don't even notice it.
I've had multiple games were I plop down some old looking card that just happens to have a powerful effect on the game and had my opponnets complain about my cards being too expensive for them to beat when the card they were sore about was just a Antiquities printing of Titania's Song which sells for $4 and the reprints are worth les then 50¢. I've heard the same gripes about my 59¢ Portcullis dominating the table.
New players just don't know card prices at all, they think powerful card = expensive card like it would be in a format like standard; this isn't true in EDH. There are many cheap cards that are wickedly powerful and many expensive cards that a bad. (I'm looking at you Caverns of Despair.)
If you're sore at your buddy for having deeper pockets then you and playing some high end cards, you can always kill them with some extremely affordable answer cards. I've had a 49¢ Consulate Crackdown send over a grand in cardboard to exile on several occassions.
Wizards actually has the tools to support casual play by reprinting reserved list cards without violating the reserved list, and they've used the tools before. I'm not talking about premium sets, which have been retroactively rules a violation, I'm talking about official proxies printed by Wizards, aka gold border cards. Not tournament legal, not real magic cards, but useable in a deck for casual play and controlled by Wizards. A purely casual product that could be released in a proxy masters set. It would only really undercut jank that gets bought out because those cards have only casual demand, while duals and the like would hold their value because the gold bordered versions could only be used casually.
Semi related, gold bordered could be allowed in tournaments if you presented the real cards, but just didn't want to shuffle them up to prevent damage, like checklist cards can be used in place of dfcs.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Because regardless of how many times you repeat that the PBtE criteria is about "not feeling like Vintage", at the end of the day it's about money and card availability. If in the next few years literally every RL card is bought out until even the most unplayable jank cards are hundreds of dollars, what is the RC supposed to do? Turn a blind eye and pretend that new players aren't at a strict disadvantage?
I can tell you that the day the RC starts banning cards solely due to the secondary market is the day I quit playing where I have to follow the ban list.
If anything, the more the RL cards spike from buyouts, the more it strengthens my stance that they should do away with PBtE altogether and look at the cards individually. (Obligatory #FreeLibrary)
Survival of the Fittest, Academy Rector, and Gate to Phyrexia. They're either uniquely powerful effects or Color Pie violations, and either way we'll probably never see another card similar to them at a comparable mana cost. Sure they're strictly worse, but at least Shocklands do a pretty good impression of the Duals. The same cannot be said of Fauna Shaman or Lost Auramancers or... I can't even think of a mono-black stand-in for Gate to Phyrexia.
In line with Fauna Shaman and Lost Auramancers being compared to Survival and Rector, Phyrexian Tribute. One-time use and costs twice as many creatures compared to Gate, but it's the only other mono-black artifact removal option (other than dipping into colorless cards, which can cover any color's weakness if you're willing to spend extra mana).
I can tell you that the day the RC starts banning cards solely due to the secondary market is the day I quit playing where I have to follow the ban list.
Maybe that's worth it to the RC if it means potential new players aren't scared away.
I can tell you that the day the RC starts banning cards solely due to the secondary market is the day I quit playing where I have to follow the ban list.
Maybe that's worth it to the RC if it means potential new players aren't scared away.
Seem pretty unlikely for 2 reasons: How would anyone know why they quit? And plenty of people play super budget, many play 5K decks, and everything in between. But the RC has shown the game they cultivate draws a certain crowd long term, and banning cards on price alone sits way outside that.
The RC does not make decisions based on how many people will like it, but WHO is served well by that decision.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Just want to jump in here and say that it also depends on where you are playing. Cost of Reserved List cards isn't a factor in p word friendly groups, and its also a non factor on MODO. Its usually the more tournament relevant mythics that are the money sink there, while you can pick up Tabernacle for less than the cost of and Xtra Value Meal, and a Plateau for less than $2. Just another reason that a wacky price based banlist is a bad idea.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I can tell you that the day the RC starts banning cards solely due to the secondary market is the day I quit playing where I have to follow the ban list.
If anything, the more the RL cards spike from buyouts, the more it strengthens my stance that they should do away with PBtE altogether and look at the cards individually. (Obligatory #FreeLibrary)
Cause Library wouldn't quadruple in price AT ALL if it became EDH legal....eeeeeesh
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
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Yep, I said the same thing 4 years ago. I've been arguing that PBtE should go away for quite some time now. Where we differ is that I don't think price should play a factor at all, especially now that we are seeing sub-dollar crap RL cards spike to $20 overnight, and actual playable cards double and triple in price. Why penalize the players with the older cards or deeper wallets just because prices go up?
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Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
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I notice you mention the ABUR Duals, but I don't see the problem with running Shocks which are for the most part functionally identical because the 2 life is almost always irrelevant in EDH. And the Shocks and Fetches can be reprinted until their price drops to a reasonable level. The biggest offenders in my eyes are the fairly obvious "mistake" cards like Survival of the Fittest, Academy Rector, and Gate to Phyrexia. They're either uniquely powerful effects or Color Pie violations, and either way we'll probably never see another card similar to them at a comparable mana cost. Sure they're strictly worse, but at least Shocklands do a pretty good impression of the Duals. The same cannot be said of Fauna Shaman or Lost Auramancers or... I can't even think of a mono-black stand-in for Gate to Phyrexia. My point is the drop-off from cards on the RL to the next best option is often far, far steeper than Duals to Shocks, which is laughably tame by comparison.
Boo boo. I want to play golf or street race my Honda Civic but I can't afford to be competitive without the best equipment. If you want to compete, you need the best equipment at whatever cost. The RC can't be concerned about tracking pricing data and whether a card wins a Pro Tour Qualifier d spike in price or a largely unplayed RL card gets bought out by speculators. (Amusingly, Gate to Phyrexia was a $5 card not long ago.)
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Or play in a meta that allows the p word.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
You can build good decks and have fun without playing Reserved List cards.
But yeah, the secondary market for RL right now sucks, and will continue to suck.
Oh good. Then we agree that cost or ease of access to a card shouldn't factor into its legality.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Cards like Academy Rector are luxery pieces in certain specific styles of decks, enchantment themed in rectors case. You can make that deck without the high end cards or you can make a deck that isn't enchantment heavy and therefore wont play Rector. Wheel is just a generally good card; it's hard to argue that any deck with a red CI wont be improved by playing it.
Because it is entirely out of the control of the RC? Because why set an arbitrary dollar limit on a card when something could cause that card jump in price over night, thereby banning a card for no reason other than speculators bought it out?
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Agreed. I mean, there is at least a legitimate reason for the ones currently banned under that criteria. I mean, where would you draw the line that you would be satisfied with? $100? $300? $500?
Yes, high card prices suck. But, the RC should not base their ban decisions around monetary value of a given card.
Perceived Barrier to Entry isn't even part of the criteria that the RC uses anymore. There are cards that are there from the beginning that used this criterion but they have stated multiple times that no new cards will be added for this reason in the future. There is no reason for this to change now.
I am aware the RC has said they won't ban more cards for PBtE and I'm saying if they don't they'll eventually run into the same problem they had when they first put the P9 on there; new players will see older players playing with cards they cannot possibly afford and get scared away from trying out the format. If that's the direction the RC wants to go, that's fine. Maybe EDH is big enough now with the precons every year than new players won't be scared off because they have a relatively easy starting point. Who knows? I honestly have no horse in this race, mainly because I already own most of the cards I want to play with. #oldplayerprivilege. But it's a conversation worth having because I don't think anyone expected the prices of the RL to rise so quickly in just a couple years, and we're coming up on a breaking point in the near future.
And then, what happens when the cutoff is $1000 and I pay $900 for a card just for it to go up the next month into banned territory? If it is $500, what happens when I buy a $400 card to have the same thing happen? Duals are wildly different prices depending on the color they produce. Someone who played 20 years ago finds out about EDH, goes back through their collection, finds they have an Underground Sea, Volcanic Island, and Badlands. They decide to make a cool Grixis deck around Nicol Bolas. The first time they play, they are told "hey man, Sea and Island are banned; but Badlands is cool". Their first response is not going to be "oh, well that makes sense. I will cut them right away". No, their first response is going to be "That is idiotic. Why is one dual legal and another banned?". And then they may very well decide this format is not for them and not play it again because that ban criterion is inconsistent.
I get the fear of people feeling like they are priced out of a format. It is an issue and Wizards has the same issue with Legacy. They created Modern as a result. That is the only really avenue for EDH: either it continues as it is and growth slows but remains high enough to get players or a brand new format comes around to replace it. I don't believe there is any way for the current EDH format to implement a drastic change as the one you are proposing (or any change related directly to a card's price) without massive backlash. I don't feel that it will kill the format, but I am pretty sure there will be enough players leaving to be a concern.
On a personal note, I can say that I would probably be one of the people who leaves. Not just EDH but Magic in general. I just want a place to play my cards and I don't like Vintage or Legacy. EDH is the format to use all my cards and if that goes away, I will only have Modern. And I honestly don't think Modern alone is enough for me to keep playing Magic.
I say this because I do have a VERY expensive deck with many reserve list and foil cards and my other decks don't hold a candle too it price wise. My experiences with newer players is that they really don't know anything about card value. I could hand my pimped out deck to a new player and ask them to pick out the 3 most expensive cards and there is no way they would get it correct.
That's because card value isn't determined only by how good a card is in a commander game; there are so many other factors. Condition, set it's printed in, RI/recent reprint status, use in 4 copy formats, and that's just scratching the surface.
Normally what happens when I play an expensive card is that nobody actually notices. I've had one single player in three years of me playing the deck constantly ever ask to read my Mishra's Workshop to know what it does. They just don't even notice it.
I've had multiple games were I plop down some old looking card that just happens to have a powerful effect on the game and had my opponnets complain about my cards being too expensive for them to beat when the card they were sore about was just a Antiquities printing of Titania's Song which sells for $4 and the reprints are worth les then 50¢. I've heard the same gripes about my 59¢ Portcullis dominating the table.
New players just don't know card prices at all, they think powerful card = expensive card like it would be in a format like standard; this isn't true in EDH. There are many cheap cards that are wickedly powerful and many expensive cards that a bad. (I'm looking at you Caverns of Despair.)
If you're sore at your buddy for having deeper pockets then you and playing some high end cards, you can always kill them with some extremely affordable answer cards. I've had a 49¢ Consulate Crackdown send over a grand in cardboard to exile on several occassions.
Semi related, gold bordered could be allowed in tournaments if you presented the real cards, but just didn't want to shuffle them up to prevent damage, like checklist cards can be used in place of dfcs.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I can tell you that the day the RC starts banning cards solely due to the secondary market is the day I quit playing where I have to follow the ban list.
If anything, the more the RL cards spike from buyouts, the more it strengthens my stance that they should do away with PBtE altogether and look at the cards individually. (Obligatory #FreeLibrary)
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Sheldon would be heartbroken if I quit playing EDH.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
*looks at cryo's sig* Are you sure?
The RC does not make decisions based on how many people will like it, but WHO is served well by that decision.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Cause Library wouldn't quadruple in price AT ALL if it became EDH legal....eeeeeesh