Palinchron ... All of the pieces are great when not used in the combo.
Outside of combos, Palinchron is a free 4/5 flier that you can play after T7 which can bounce itself for 4 mana. Not something I would call "great" in a FFA multiplayer game where everyone is starting at 40 life.
Rootwater Diver is also one of the few blue cards that will recur an artifact, so it's hardly useless. Outclassed by Academy Ruins? Sure, but in a singleton format one card being outclassed by another card isn't on its own enough reason to exclude it from a deck. Also, it's got a relevant creature type.
Grand Architect is also popular in a number of decks even without comboing, as he's an anthem and in many cases a better Chief Engineer, providing double the mana and letting you use the mana on activated abilities in addition to spells.
I'll grant that few people run Pili-Pala or Walking Ballista outside of their combo use, though.
Yeaaa Selvala just feels kinda off. If you compare to Rofellos, Rofellos literally only needs lands to tap. Selvala needs another creature - a sizeable at that - to begin working her magic. This means that while Selvala operates on a different axis, she also can be attacked on different axises. Take away her biggest creature, and you get a 3 mana creature that taps for effectively 1 mana, or maybe like 3 mana. My experience with running her is that yes, she can be absurdly strong. Yes, she can go infinite easily. BUT she does need more setup than most mana vomiters to actually do that work. Without haste she's even worse.
And frankly, if you get a Selvala out next to a Kozilek, chances are you already have a sizeable amount of mana.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Palinchron ... All of the pieces are great when not used in the combo.
Outside of combos, Palinchron is a free 4/5 flier that you can play after T7 which can bounce itself for 4 mana. Not something I would call "great" in a FFA multiplayer game where everyone is starting at 40 life.
Rootwater Diver is also one of the few blue cards that will recur an artifact, so it's hardly useless. Outclassed by Academy Ruins? Sure, but in a singleton format one card being outclassed by another card isn't on its own enough reason to exclude it from a deck. Also, it's got a relevant creature type.
Grand Architect is also popular in a number of decks even without comboing, as he's an anthem and in many cases a better Chief Engineer, providing double the mana and letting you use the mana on activated abilities in addition to spells.
I'll grant that few people run Pili-Pala or Walking Ballista outside of their combo use, though.
You don't need to combo to make Palinchron/Great Whale/Rude Awakening/Turnabout very powerful cards. A few lands that produce more than 1 mana turn them into accelerators and tempo plays. My Momir Vig deck also uses Cloud of Faeries for the DEN combo, but that needs 1 more piece.
But, as far as Rootwater Diver and Grand Architect go, keep in mind we are speaking in the context of a UG deck since we care about Protean Hulk. I fin it very hard to believe either of those cards would be good in that context. Just like Scour from Existence can be highly useful in a mono-B deck, going BW means Anguished Unmaking and Utter End are the more reasonable choices.
I've run both of those cards before, but in a mono-U deck.
So Sheldon, how about Diabolic Intent Demon? I know it is usually foolish to speculate on cards the day they get spoiled, but between the higher life totals and repeatable tutor, this card seems like it could easily call into the Grizzelbees category of "it knows what it did" cardz. Top soon to get any thoughts from you?
So Sheldon, how about Diabolic Intent Demon? I know it is usually foolish to speculate on cards the day they get spoiled, but between the higher life totals and repeatable tutor, this card seems like it could easily call into the Grizzelbees category of "it knows what it did" cardz. Top soon to get any thoughts from you?
Ugh, not to poo-poo here, but this is incredibly premature as well as unwarranted. D. Tutor in the CZ, sounds broken... until you realize it costs 8, requires both a cost and sacrifice, and has no really redeeming qualities other than that(Ooohhhhh Flying/Trample). Sidisi, Undead Vizer does this wayyyyyy better, so if this gets ban traction, Sidisi has to as well.
I do want to ask about Solemnity, considering it was already asked to be insta-ban in the new cards thread. My PO, neither deserve it.
Why would someone believe Solemnity deserves banning? Am I missing something here?
Yeah, I'm a little confused on this one as well. I guess it goes infinite with Goblin Bombardment plus creature with Undying or Persist, but Melira, Sylvok Outcast is already a thing and non-problematic. I presume that something like Solemnity+Phyrexian Unlife could be a pillowfort thing, especially with something like Greater Auramancy. Cards like Dark Depths, Thing in the Ice, Decree of Silence, Celestial Convergence, and cumulative upkeep cards like Mystic Remora or Tornado are cards that utilize counters to function properly, and without them you completely bypass their drawback. It's a good thing they made it so that it wouldn't work with suspend cards like Ancestral Vision. So it has some niche uses, but I can't see these as anything problematic.
So Sheldon, how about Diabolic Intent Demon? I know it is usually foolish to speculate on cards the day they get spoiled, but between the higher life totals and repeatable tutor, this card seems like it could easily call into the Grizzelbees category of "it knows what it did" cardz. Top soon to get any thoughts from you?
If it were just 2 life, maybe, but when you're talking sacrificing other creatures too, is it even as good as blinking Runescarred Demon? You can't just play it and expect it to do anything but a big beater. Assuming you're not playing ultra compact combo or something, it sounds even safer than Craterhoof that came up a month ago.
My immediate reaction to old crocodile chow was that he was RusselBrand 2.0. Then I re-read the card and concluded that needing to sacrifice a creature limited him a bit, and possibly enough. You can't just drop him than tutor out all your combo cards without having some fodder. Unfortunately, for 2 card combos, that means a single creature, as unlike Sidisi he can sac that creature and himself the same turn for the 2 cards, at a cost of 8 mana in one turn as opposed to 12 split over 2 with Sidisi. In noncombo decks with enough fodder, he can take over games, but that might actually be kind of fun. My gut is telling me that him getting run as a combo commander will be lame, but his ability to helm a toolbox deck makes him worth giving a chance. Time will tell.
For Solemnity, I'd like to see if it turns into a groan inducing card that starts showing up every game before I start worrying. Cards don't get banned for combos, even if it combos with many things. The fact that it is part of several 2 card combos of varying strength, up to and including instant locks, could cause it to become quite widely run. This could lead to problematic casual omnipresence, because if it starts showing up in every white deck just because it synergizes and combos with so much, including some commonly run things like mystic remora, and also has a fair amount of utility on its own, that could cause it to start warping the meta game. It shuts down planeswalkers and shuts down counter based decks, and it randomly shuts down numerous other cards, so if it starts showing up in every game it will have a massive impact on what the typical game of commander looks like. It also has the downside of accidentally comboing with opponent's cards. Slapping down a Solemnity defensively only to have an opponent slap down Decree of Silence the next turn is going to lead to copious salt production. Also, if it really becomes a staple card that reliably comes up every game, suddenly abusing cumulative upkeep and other counter based cards becomes a thing that is easily accomplished, again because you can also rely on your opponent's playing out your combo piece for you.
These are both cards that merit watching, but I'm hoping that neither lead to the problems I described in practice and can both stay legal.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
You can't just drop him than tutor out all your combo cards without having some fodder. Unfortunately, for 2 card combos, that means a single creature, as unlike Sidisi he can sac that creature and himself the same turn for the 2 cards, at a cost of 8 mana in one turn as opposed to 12 split over 2 with Sidisi. In noncombo decks with enough fodder, he can take over games, but that might actually be kind of fun. My gut is telling me that him getting run as a combo commander will be lame, but his ability to helm a toolbox deck makes him worth giving a chance. Time will tell.
I want to clarify this a bit. He can't sacrifice himself so you would need 2 other creatures to get 2 cards.
Honestly, he seems fine. He is no doubt powerful, but if someone is running two card combos, there are much better ways of getting there than trying to cheat in an 8 mana beater from the command zone. Time will tell I suppose, but I don't know that he is banworthy.
I would also like to clarify that Solemnity doesn't shut down planeswalkers. It only prevents counters from being put on artifacts, creatures, enchantments, and lands.
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WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Can't believe I missed both of those things. Without being able to sac himself croc bait demon is somewhat less powerful, to the point where I'm willing to bet he doesn't become problematic.
Solemnity not hitting walkers is a bit lame. Having another tool against superfriends decks would have been nice. Now I really don't know what will happen with this card. It probably makes it a bit safer as thats one fewer archetype that it hoses if it becomes ubiquitous, and it's probably a bit less likely to be jammed into decks as it would be if it could ruin Narset and Atraxa, but this also means it has one fewer use that doesn't just randomly suck the fun out of the game.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Most of these 'do-nothing' kinds of cards need at least 14 other cards to synergize with in your average EDH deck before they start becoming good enough to run. The only exception to that is if it synergizes so well with your commander that any other interactions are just icing on the cake (this is my rule of thumb for cards like Strionic Resonator, Rings of Brighthearth, Voltaic Key, etc.) . From what I can see, there are only a few blue and white cards that could possibly make it worthwhile, and I don't see any commander with white in it's color identity that would want this kind of effect.
Overall, the only place I see it is in a deck that plays lots of hate bears or a pillow-fort deck with hoser enchantments. You can then tutor it up if you are playing against Marath, Will of the Wild or Ghave, Guru of Spores. If you are playing Zur the Enchanter, you can team it up with Phyrexian Unlife and you can't be killed until someone removes one of them, but that would be no different than something like Solitary Confinement (and its not like Zur has ever been accused of doing fair things).
Can't believe I missed both of those things. Without being able to sac himself croc bait demon is somewhat less powerful, to the point where I'm willing to bet he doesn't become problematic.
Solemnity not hitting walkers is a bit lame. Having another tool against superfriends decks would have been nice. Now I really don't know what will happen with this card. It probably makes it a bit safer as thats one fewer archetype that it hoses if it becomes ubiquitous, and it's probably a bit less likely to be jammed into decks as it would be if it could ruin Narset and Atraxa, but this also means it has one fewer use that doesn't just randomly suck the fun out of the game.
The problem is that "2W: You can't play planeswalkers" would be absurdly powerful especially with everything else it does. Since it doesn't allow counters to be put on, if Planeswalkers were included they couldn't enter with counters and they would die right away. Not sure if that is what you are thinking of or if you were thinking it would just stop plus abilities. Hosing plus abilities is one thing; hosing planeswalkers entirely is something totally different.
Can't believe I missed both of those things. Without being able to sac himself croc bait demon is somewhat less powerful, to the point where I'm willing to bet he doesn't become problematic.
Solemnity not hitting walkers is a bit lame. Having another tool against superfriends decks would have been nice. Now I really don't know what will happen with this card. It probably makes it a bit safer as thats one fewer archetype that it hoses if it becomes ubiquitous, and it's probably a bit less likely to be jammed into decks as it would be if it could ruin Narset and Atraxa, but this also means it has one fewer use that doesn't just randomly suck the fun out of the game.
The problem is that "2W: You can't play planeswalkers" would be absurdly powerful especially with everything else it does. Since it doesn't allow counters to be put on, if Planeswalkers were included they couldn't enter with counters and they would die right away. Not sure if that is what you are thinking of or if you were thinking it would just stop plus abilities. Hosing plus abilities is one thing; hosing planeswalkers entirely is something totally different.
Yeah, good point. I was thinking entirely within the context of commander, and even then in the context of narset and atraxa super friends. It would be too much for other formats, and too oppressive against the planeswalker commanders.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
So Sheldon, how about Diabolic Intent Demon? I know it is usually foolish to speculate on cards the day they get spoiled, but between the higher life totals and repeatable tutor, this card seems like it could easily call into the Grizzelbees category of "it knows what it did" cardz. Top soon to get any thoughts from you?
Ugh, not to poo-poo here, but this is incredibly premature as well as unwarranted. D. Tutor in the CZ, sounds broken... until you realize it costs 8, requires both a cost and sacrifice, and has no really redeeming qualities other than that(Ooohhhhh Flying/Trample). Sidisi, Undead Vizer does this wayyyyyy better, so if this gets ban traction, Sidisi has to as well.
I do want to ask about Solemnity, considering it was already asked to be insta-ban in the new cards thread. My PO, neither deserve it.
I think that,because his ablity is relatively cheap and repeatable, makes the a good candidate for discussion. Being able to tutor several times in a turn and at instant speed (if memory serves) is going to be devastating. I look forward to playing it. For a while at least.
Well, it can tutor, but not unless you have other creatures you want to sacrifice for cards. You can't just play it out and get anything other than an 8/8 with flying and trample.
A friend of mine put Razaketh into perspective this way. It's like casting Diabolic Revelation for three. Sure, you don't get an 8/8 flying trampler that can be reanimated, and you can't get additional cards without spending more mana, but for the same cost you do still get three cards of your choice. With Razaketh, those three cards are going to cost you three creatures and six life. Diabolic Revelation doesn't ask creatures or life of you but does largely the same thing, and I think that's important. While I expect Razaketh to see moderate play in Commander, I don't think he's going to cause any major problems.
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WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
A friend of mine put Razaketh into perspective this way. It's like casting Diabolic Revelation for three. Sure, you don't get an 8/8 flying trampler that can be reanimated, and you can't get additional cards without spending more mana, but for the same cost you do still get three cards of your choice. With Razaketh, those three cards are going to cost you three creatures and six life. Diabolic Revelation doesn't ask creatures or life of you but does largely the same thing, and I think that's important. While I expect Razaketh to see moderate play in Commander, I don't think he's going to cause any major problems.
I don't know if I'd so readily dismiss the 8/8 flying trampler, but I do agree that the card itself seems okay. It could become a problem from a ubiquity standpoint, but I don't feel that is as much of a concern as it was for Griselbrand.
Nobody is gonna build around Razaketh without some lifegain like Whip. Sacrificing some life and creatures for any cards in your deck is wayyyyy too easy. I'll say the cost is close to zilch. For many decks, sacrificing creatures is actually a benefit.
Sure, but it still requires more moving pieces as Grizzlebrizzle did. You can cheat it out early, but you can't guarantee you have other pieces waiting to be sacced. He's dangerous, I'm just not convinced he needs emergency banning yet.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Outside of combos, Palinchron is a free 4/5 flier that you can play after T7 which can bounce itself for 4 mana. Not something I would call "great" in a FFA multiplayer game where everyone is starting at 40 life.
Rootwater Diver is also one of the few blue cards that will recur an artifact, so it's hardly useless. Outclassed by Academy Ruins? Sure, but in a singleton format one card being outclassed by another card isn't on its own enough reason to exclude it from a deck. Also, it's got a relevant creature type.
Grand Architect is also popular in a number of decks even without comboing, as he's an anthem and in many cases a better Chief Engineer, providing double the mana and letting you use the mana on activated abilities in addition to spells.
I'll grant that few people run Pili-Pala or Walking Ballista outside of their combo use, though.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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And frankly, if you get a Selvala out next to a Kozilek, chances are you already have a sizeable amount of mana.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
You don't need to combo to make Palinchron/Great Whale/Rude Awakening/Turnabout very powerful cards. A few lands that produce more than 1 mana turn them into accelerators and tempo plays. My Momir Vig deck also uses Cloud of Faeries for the DEN combo, but that needs 1 more piece.
But, as far as Rootwater Diver and Grand Architect go, keep in mind we are speaking in the context of a UG deck since we care about Protean Hulk. I fin it very hard to believe either of those cards would be good in that context. Just like Scour from Existence can be highly useful in a mono-B deck, going BW means Anguished Unmaking and Utter End are the more reasonable choices.
I've run both of those cards before, but in a mono-U deck.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Ugh, not to poo-poo here, but this is incredibly premature as well as unwarranted. D. Tutor in the CZ, sounds broken... until you realize it costs 8, requires both a cost and sacrifice, and has no really redeeming qualities other than that(Ooohhhhh Flying/Trample). Sidisi, Undead Vizer does this wayyyyyy better, so if this gets ban traction, Sidisi has to as well.
I do want to ask about Solemnity, considering it was already asked to be insta-ban in the new cards thread. My PO, neither deserve it.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Yeah, I'm a little confused on this one as well. I guess it goes infinite with Goblin Bombardment plus creature with Undying or Persist, but Melira, Sylvok Outcast is already a thing and non-problematic. I presume that something like Solemnity+Phyrexian Unlife could be a pillowfort thing, especially with something like Greater Auramancy. Cards like Dark Depths, Thing in the Ice, Decree of Silence, Celestial Convergence, and cumulative upkeep cards like Mystic Remora or Tornado are cards that utilize counters to function properly, and without them you completely bypass their drawback. It's a good thing they made it so that it wouldn't work with suspend cards like Ancestral Vision. So it has some niche uses, but I can't see these as anything problematic.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
For Solemnity, I'd like to see if it turns into a groan inducing card that starts showing up every game before I start worrying. Cards don't get banned for combos, even if it combos with many things. The fact that it is part of several 2 card combos of varying strength, up to and including instant locks, could cause it to become quite widely run. This could lead to problematic casual omnipresence, because if it starts showing up in every white deck just because it synergizes and combos with so much, including some commonly run things like mystic remora, and also has a fair amount of utility on its own, that could cause it to start warping the meta game. It shuts down planeswalkers and shuts down counter based decks, and it randomly shuts down numerous other cards, so if it starts showing up in every game it will have a massive impact on what the typical game of commander looks like. It also has the downside of accidentally comboing with opponent's cards. Slapping down a Solemnity defensively only to have an opponent slap down Decree of Silence the next turn is going to lead to copious salt production. Also, if it really becomes a staple card that reliably comes up every game, suddenly abusing cumulative upkeep and other counter based cards becomes a thing that is easily accomplished, again because you can also rely on your opponent's playing out your combo piece for you.
These are both cards that merit watching, but I'm hoping that neither lead to the problems I described in practice and can both stay legal.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Honestly, he seems fine. He is no doubt powerful, but if someone is running two card combos, there are much better ways of getting there than trying to cheat in an 8 mana beater from the command zone. Time will tell I suppose, but I don't know that he is banworthy.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
One local has been complaining about that and Decree of Silence being "overpowered" and "unfair" in theory.
Solemnity not hitting walkers is a bit lame. Having another tool against superfriends decks would have been nice. Now I really don't know what will happen with this card. It probably makes it a bit safer as thats one fewer archetype that it hoses if it becomes ubiquitous, and it's probably a bit less likely to be jammed into decks as it would be if it could ruin Narset and Atraxa, but this also means it has one fewer use that doesn't just randomly suck the fun out of the game.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Decree of Silence, Thing in the Ice, Dark Depths, Celestial Convergence, and cumulative upkeep cards like Mystic Remora (they use age counters to tick up the cumulative upkeep, so the upkeep cost will never go up with Solemnity in play) would be the kinds of cards that would benefit from Solemnity.
Most of these 'do-nothing' kinds of cards need at least 14 other cards to synergize with in your average EDH deck before they start becoming good enough to run. The only exception to that is if it synergizes so well with your commander that any other interactions are just icing on the cake (this is my rule of thumb for cards like Strionic Resonator, Rings of Brighthearth, Voltaic Key, etc.) . From what I can see, there are only a few blue and white cards that could possibly make it worthwhile, and I don't see any commander with white in it's color identity that would want this kind of effect.
Overall, the only place I see it is in a deck that plays lots of hate bears or a pillow-fort deck with hoser enchantments. You can then tutor it up if you are playing against Marath, Will of the Wild or Ghave, Guru of Spores. If you are playing Zur the Enchanter, you can team it up with Phyrexian Unlife and you can't be killed until someone removes one of them, but that would be no different than something like Solitary Confinement (and its not like Zur has ever been accused of doing fair things).
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Yeah, good point. I was thinking entirely within the context of commander, and even then in the context of narset and atraxa super friends. It would be too much for other formats, and too oppressive against the planeswalker commanders.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I think that,because his ablity is relatively cheap and repeatable, makes the a good candidate for discussion. Being able to tutor several times in a turn and at instant speed (if memory serves) is going to be devastating. I look forward to playing it. For a while at least.
A friend of mine put Razaketh into perspective this way. It's like casting Diabolic Revelation for three. Sure, you don't get an 8/8 flying trampler that can be reanimated, and you can't get additional cards without spending more mana, but for the same cost you do still get three cards of your choice. With Razaketh, those three cards are going to cost you three creatures and six life. Diabolic Revelation doesn't ask creatures or life of you but does largely the same thing, and I think that's important. While I expect Razaketh to see moderate play in Commander, I don't think he's going to cause any major problems.
Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Should be fixed. I'll poke the tech admin just in case though. It definitely shouldn't be an issue once the database next caches.
I don't know if I'd so readily dismiss the 8/8 flying trampler, but I do agree that the card itself seems okay. It could become a problem from a ubiquity standpoint, but I don't feel that is as much of a concern as it was for Griselbrand.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
@Cryo: Yeah, main deck Razaketh might be a bit obnoxious. Not having lifelink is of note, though.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg