Has there been any serious discussion into the banning of Mana Crypt? The RC generally co siders cards that push fair decks into the competitive range banworthy and I think Mana Crypt is a fine example of such a card. The drawback is largely negligible in a 40 life format and the acceleration is so powerful that even the fairest of decks can suddenly seem like cEDH decks just from landing an early mana crypt.
Serious from whom? Mana Crypt (along with Sol Ring and other fast mana) gets discussed quite frequently on this forum as well as various other sites on the internet quite frequently. How much internal discussion the RC has given it is another question altogether, to which I do not believe we have been given a quantitative answer. My suspicion ( and this is just an educated guess) is that before it was reprinted in EMA the card was not high on their radar given the overall rarity. They have probably discussed it to some extent since the reprint, but the 3 life drawback is actually a concern for many decks that aren't already built to compete at the higher levels, and I suspect that plays a factor into their decision.
It's an average of 1.5 life per turn(about 1/27th of your starting life total), so only slightly more than something like Phyrexian Arena which is pretty common. I think another big factor that needs to be taken into account is that the fact that it costs zero means that the life loss can be circumvented in the early stages of the game by just not playing it. With all other ramp spells you have to play the spell on the turn before you want the mana from it. If I want 4 mana on turn 3 and I have a Rampant Growth I have to play that on turn 2 but if I want to hit 4 mana and I have a Mana Crypt I can wait until the same turn I need the mana so I don't have to risk taking damage and there wont be any tempo loss like there would be with other ramp spells.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Comparing the life loss of "1.5" per turn to 1 per turn of Phyrexian Arena and calling it "slightly more" is certainly a misnomer if not outright deceptive. Yes, 0.5 life is not that much in a singular instance, but it is a 50% greater increased loss of life. 50% is a sizable difference in proportion.
Second, I don't know of anywhere that the RC bans cards which "push fair decks into the competitive range." I'm not sure where you got that, but it is not a banning criteria now and it never has been to my knowledge. If you can produce some statement from the RC that they use that in their banning decisions, I'll gladly admit I am wrong, but this seems to be a completely made up criteria that they "use" for banning.
Cards are not banned for competitive implications in decks, nor are they banned -more plainly- for "power" reasons.
For the purposes of fast mana, the argument is always considering them coming down on T1, which is statistically somewhere around 7-10% of the time. So, I'll play along. That 1.5 life per turn starting from T1, in any deck that isn't designed to be so fast that the life loss is irrelevant, adds up pretty quickly. The RC says that they expect games to go about 10 turns. In 10 turns, that MC will cost you 15 life. That is sizeable. 15 life is 37.5% of your life total in EDH. The life loss from this card is not at all insignificant in the types of games that the RC wants to see. I think, with that drawback, it makes it worse than Sol Ring in the RC's model playgroup. Would you rather pay 1 colorless for 10 turns of a Sol Ring, or 15 life for 10 turns of Mana Crypt? The answer here is pretty clear. Given their stance on Sol Ring in their model format, where MC is ostensibly worse, I can't see it ever getting the ban unless Sol Ring also went (which is highly unlikely at the present time).
Mana Crypt is only crazy in tuned decks. I have one in my Oyobi deck and I've died to it more THAN I can remember, because the whole deck is grindy and so on. There's more annoying stuff I'd throw on the list before MC/SR, and I'm not crazy about either of those cards.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
It was their logic behind the Primeval Titan ban iirc. They said something along the lines of how even the fair decks were made much more powerful by the fact that Primetime could tutor for and play their Urborg/coffers combo while also sticking around to threaten even more value. Basically that it made decks too good all on it's own. I don't have any exact posts just lying around as this was literally 4 years but given how rare bans are in EDH it really stood out with me.
The life loss isn't entirely irrelevant I'll admit but the fact of the matter is that there is literally zero opportunity cost to casting it. You don't even have to cast it on turn 1 all the time so you can slowroll it to prevent life loss. I have an untuned Brago deck, given brago's casting cost I can wait til turn 2 to play my mana crypt if I don't have any other mana rocks in hand on turn 1(unlikely). I find that even in more casual decks if I'm swinging with Brago on the same turn you just played your keyrune or cultivate then I'm just so far ahead the game in nigh unlosable at that point. Do I just not play mana rocks in my blink deck to avoid this happening?
Also I'd say that Mana Crypt is at least as powerful as Sol Ring is. If you are just considering the ramp in 2 colorless mana then sure sol ring is the stronger card but Mana Crypt's zero cmc gives it other advantages sol ring doesn't have. For instance Mana Crypt is the better mana rock on turn 1 since it enables you to have 3 available mana on the first turn, which in turn lets you follow your mana crypt up with either a 3 mana ramp spell or possibly 2 cmc2 ramp spells. In terms of explosiveness, Mana Crypt wins. Also consider that mana crypt ramps you by 2 mana on the turn you play it at all stages of the game. Have you ever been 2 mana short from making a crazy play? You stop to think what will give you +2 mana when you reach for your deck to draw your card only to realize that even with a land or sol ring you wont be able to get that mana this turn. Sol Ring does net you +1 mana on the turn you play it but that's the same as playing a land, Mana Crypts ability to net you +2 mana the same turn you play it makes it a relevant top deck in the late game. Even if you don't need it you can just hold onto it until you do need that extra mana so you can avoid taking unnecessary damage. That 0 cmc means their is no penalization for not getting your mana rock into play on an earlier turn unlike every other mana rock in existence.
I'm just saying Mana Crypt provides unreal acceleration and explosiveness at nearly no opportunity cost and very little life cost.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
They have literal quotes on their website mtgcommander.net that address why each card was banned and these go back years in an easy to locate manner (you can probably also find links to why each card was banned on this website). I promise you that "pushing fair decks into the competitive range" is not a banning criteria. "Overly centralizing gameplay" is what you're looking for with regard to PT. If it was said, it wasn't the actual reasoning. In court decisions (written by the deciding judge, usually in an appeals case) there is something called "dicta." Dicta is when the judge or justice mentions something that looks like it is a reason for why they made whatever decision they did, but it turns out that they decided the way they did based on other factors and this "dicta" reasoning is not relevant to the precedent. It is often easy to mistake for the legal rule, but possible to distinguish through careful reading and checking references and citations. If you did see the statement you are claiming you did, I imagine it was a case of "dicta" where that is not the clearly communicated rationale behind PT's ban.
If you're slowrolling it because you're trying to avoid its downside, that means you're not gaining the advantage of 2 additional mana on all your early turns, which in turn makes it less impactful and not worth a ban. Mana Crypt on Turn 5, for example, doesn't do a whole lot in terms of explosiveness or the game snowballing out of control. Players could have ramped past that with "fair" cards by that point.
In typical EDH metas, which are somewhere around "game ends on turn 10," 15 life is what you'll lose from Mana Crypt played on T1(on average). That's sizably more than "very little" and it could easily be higher. I know you're saying there is no/little opportunity cost and very little life loss, but that doesn't make it true or factual. In fact, it is certainly not true.
The other question is unreal acceleration into what? It isn't too much mana too quickly like Channel, Tolarian Academy, or Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary. Outside of a "power level" ban, which isn't a ban criteria, I don't see how this would get banned, especially when it is ostensibly worse than Sol Ring in the typical playgroup and average game of EDH.
You've effectively described what Mana Crypt does when it is played. I don't dispute that. However, the fact does not speak for itself. Just because Mana Crypt does those things doesn't mean that those things are "unreal" or "[too] explosive". You need to explain why those interactions meet the RC's stated criteria for banning cards. I'm saying that it doesn't meet any of them. It doesn't centralize the game, it isn't too much mana too quickly as the cards banned for that are clearly far beyond the scope of what Mana Crypt does because MC never generates more than 2 mana, there is no barrier to entry because of it (more than ever now), and power level isn't a ban criteria. So why does it deserve a ban under the RC's express criteria?
I'll be very disappointed if Leovold is banned because of Teferi's Puzzle Box. While I admit the combo is super oppressive, as someone for whom Leovold is the perfect commander for a very unconventional BUG deck, having to go back to 'turn any game into all vs you' of Tasigur will be very upsetting.
I'll be very disappointed if Leovold is banned because of Teferi's Puzzle Box. While I admit the combo is super oppressive, as someone for whom Leovold is the perfect commander for a very unconventional BUG deck, having to go back to 'turn any game into all vs you' of Tasigur will be very upsetting.
There is no way that Leovold gets banned due to an interaction with one specific card. We already have one card combos with generals like Prosh, Niv-Mizzet, and Teferi.
The RC met last weekend. I'll give you one insight: Leovold didn't even come up.
Were you all so unified that it needed to be banned that.ypu didn't even have to discuss it? You all just silently agreed to take it behind the woodshed?
More seriously though, the format appears to be pretty healthy right now. Was there any major discussions at the meeting? Are you discussing anything that made recent waves on the forums like Iona, new Selvana, or off color fetches?
Was that the meeting for the upcoming announcement? Isn't the announcement still like 2 weeks away?
Two weeks is tight. Announcements have to be written, Magic Online and various resources updated (including possible translations). Rules changes had to be discussed earlier - the CR is totally locked down at this point. People underestimate how coordinated everything needs to be.
Two weeks is tight. Announcements have to be written, Magic Online and various resources updated (including possible translations). Rules changes had to be discussed earlier - the CR is totally locked down at this point. People underestimate how coordinated everything needs to be.
Thats fair. Well, good luck in your preparations.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Were you all so unified that it needed to be banned that.ypu didn't even have to discuss it? You all just silently agreed to take it behind the woodshed?
This gave me a real good chuckle. That said, I don't know why they would waste time discussing a legend that people have been playing for less than a month. I imagine the real discussion for Leovold would come in 6-12 months once they can get an idea if people are playing him oppressively, frequently, and all over. If he isn't, just like Narset, Zur, Prossh, etc., he will be safe.
Were you all so unified that it needed to be banned that.ypu didn't even have to discuss it? You all just silently agreed to take it behind the woodshed?
This gave me a real good chuckle. That said, I don't know why they would waste time discussing a legend that people have been playing for less than a month. I imagine the real discussion for Leovold would come in 6-12 months once they can get an idea if people are playing him oppressively, frequently, and all over. If he isn't, just like Narset, Zur, Prossh, etc., he will be safe.
RivenVII, it sounds suspiciously like you've been paying attention to how we do things and put some thought into correlating the data you've gathered into a reasoned response. Based on my observations, it seems like you might not be internetting correctly. Commonly-accepted practice is to react emotionally on a dearth of information and lack of understanding process, write a manifesto on how we hate <your group>, and launch into thinly-veiled personal attacks. Not once did you question my parentage or intellect. You have made my job more difficult by ensuring that I now have to actually pay attention to what you say, since it appears that you can string together quite coherent thoughts.
I'm just holding out a faint hope that Protean Hulk gets unbanned after every test except the one of the RC that was done a few months back showed that it really wouldn't be a problem.
Probably not gonna happen, just as how the much more banworthy Tooth and Nail will probably survive this round of bannings again as well.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
On Mana Crypt: Yeah, it's super busted if you're going to combo out with it and stuff or lockout with it. I'm using it in my Oyobi deck and it's more than fine. She costs seven...my other spirits are durdly and stuff. I've died to Crypt just last week, my deck is hyper slow. Yes, I've used it to drop a turn one Thalia + Aether Vial once in the past, but you have to manage yourself somewhat. That's what I've been trying do. Except with my Duel Commander Glissa, the Traitor deck, but that's a competitive format.
Wouldn't hold my breath on Hulk. It's not super broken but it'll end up getting the reanimate/clone treatment like Prime Time.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
On Mana Crypt: Yeah, it's super busted if you're going to combo out with it and stuff or lockout with it. I'm using it in my Oyobi deck and it's more than fine. She costs seven...my other spirits are durdly and stuff. I've died to Crypt just last week, my deck is hyper slow. Yes, I've used it to drop a turn one Thalia + Aether Vial once in the past, but you have to manage yourself somewhat. That's what I've been trying do. Except with my Duel Commander Glissa, the Traitor deck, but that's a competitive format.
Wouldn't hold my breath on Hulk. It's not super broken but it'll end up getting the reanimate/clone treatment like Prime Time.
Will it though? Without some way to abuse it and nothing juicy in my deck to nab, I would much rather use my clone on utility like Sad Robot or Fact or Fiction Sphinx.
Wouldn't hold my breath on Hulk. It's not super broken but it'll end up getting the reanimate/clone treatment like Prime Time.
Yeah, that's the biggest argument that is made against it's unban and it's also complete and utter bollocks. Given how many better targets there usually are at that point in the game, AND the extra resources that need to be dedicated to getting the Hulk to work (Namely, you must have a sac outlet at present) means that no, it won't be the Nr. 1 choice all the time unlike Prime Time. Prime Time was always the best choice, Hulk sure as hell won't be. I'd much rather grab something like Molten Primordial most of the time - and that's not even a very high tier card.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I want to see Narset banned because I don't like watching people play solitaire.
Every Narset deck in my competitive group was dismantled once the mulligan change occurred - she is significantly less consistent and often hated off the table.
Will it though? Without some way to abuse it and nothing juicy in my deck to nab, I would much rather use my clone on utility like Sad Robot or Fact or Fiction Sphinx.
Yeah, that's the biggest argument that is made against it's unban and it's also complete and utter bollocks. Given how many better targets there usually are at that point in the game, AND the extra resources that need to be dedicated to getting the Hulk to work (Namely, you must have a sac outlet at present) means that no, it won't be the Nr. 1 choice all the time unlike Prime Time. Prime Time was always the best choice, Hulk sure as hell won't be. I'd much rather grab something like Molten Primordial most of the time - and that's not even a very high tier card.
I am definitely in this camp as well - to really take advantage of Hulk, you need to build into sac-outlets and be heavy into reanimation, and a lot of decks are not built that way - even decks taking advantage of the clone copy of it. I think Hulk would definitely make the cEDH scene interesting by elevating a lot of GWx and GBx decks. It would also be kinda cute to see a casual deck dump out a bunch of utility dudes or grab another fatty.
I think Hulk is one of those old bans like Worldgorger Dragon - they wanted to stop potential 'bad combos' but the ammunition out there today is significant enough that this wouldn't immediately be an auto-include in any list.
These cards just...they just don't even compare to cards that are legal and egregious already. I don't have a raft of great reasoning but it feels pretty obvious to me that the time has come on those cards.
EDH is basically the graveyard shenanigans and ramp format. Might as well just go the rest o the way.
Serious from whom? Mana Crypt (along with Sol Ring and other fast mana) gets discussed quite frequently on this forum as well as various other sites on the internet quite frequently. How much internal discussion the RC has given it is another question altogether, to which I do not believe we have been given a quantitative answer. My suspicion ( and this is just an educated guess) is that before it was reprinted in EMA the card was not high on their radar given the overall rarity. They have probably discussed it to some extent since the reprint, but the 3 life drawback is actually a concern for many decks that aren't already built to compete at the higher levels, and I suspect that plays a factor into their decision.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Second, I don't know of anywhere that the RC bans cards which "push fair decks into the competitive range." I'm not sure where you got that, but it is not a banning criteria now and it never has been to my knowledge. If you can produce some statement from the RC that they use that in their banning decisions, I'll gladly admit I am wrong, but this seems to be a completely made up criteria that they "use" for banning.
Cards are not banned for competitive implications in decks, nor are they banned -more plainly- for "power" reasons.
For the purposes of fast mana, the argument is always considering them coming down on T1, which is statistically somewhere around 7-10% of the time. So, I'll play along. That 1.5 life per turn starting from T1, in any deck that isn't designed to be so fast that the life loss is irrelevant, adds up pretty quickly. The RC says that they expect games to go about 10 turns. In 10 turns, that MC will cost you 15 life. That is sizeable. 15 life is 37.5% of your life total in EDH. The life loss from this card is not at all insignificant in the types of games that the RC wants to see. I think, with that drawback, it makes it worse than Sol Ring in the RC's model playgroup. Would you rather pay 1 colorless for 10 turns of a Sol Ring, or 15 life for 10 turns of Mana Crypt? The answer here is pretty clear. Given their stance on Sol Ring in their model format, where MC is ostensibly worse, I can't see it ever getting the ban unless Sol Ring also went (which is highly unlikely at the present time).
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
The life loss isn't entirely irrelevant I'll admit but the fact of the matter is that there is literally zero opportunity cost to casting it. You don't even have to cast it on turn 1 all the time so you can slowroll it to prevent life loss. I have an untuned Brago deck, given brago's casting cost I can wait til turn 2 to play my mana crypt if I don't have any other mana rocks in hand on turn 1(unlikely). I find that even in more casual decks if I'm swinging with Brago on the same turn you just played your keyrune or cultivate then I'm just so far ahead the game in nigh unlosable at that point. Do I just not play mana rocks in my blink deck to avoid this happening?
Also I'd say that Mana Crypt is at least as powerful as Sol Ring is. If you are just considering the ramp in 2 colorless mana then sure sol ring is the stronger card but Mana Crypt's zero cmc gives it other advantages sol ring doesn't have. For instance Mana Crypt is the better mana rock on turn 1 since it enables you to have 3 available mana on the first turn, which in turn lets you follow your mana crypt up with either a 3 mana ramp spell or possibly 2 cmc2 ramp spells. In terms of explosiveness, Mana Crypt wins. Also consider that mana crypt ramps you by 2 mana on the turn you play it at all stages of the game. Have you ever been 2 mana short from making a crazy play? You stop to think what will give you +2 mana when you reach for your deck to draw your card only to realize that even with a land or sol ring you wont be able to get that mana this turn. Sol Ring does net you +1 mana on the turn you play it but that's the same as playing a land, Mana Crypts ability to net you +2 mana the same turn you play it makes it a relevant top deck in the late game. Even if you don't need it you can just hold onto it until you do need that extra mana so you can avoid taking unnecessary damage. That 0 cmc means their is no penalization for not getting your mana rock into play on an earlier turn unlike every other mana rock in existence.
I'm just saying Mana Crypt provides unreal acceleration and explosiveness at nearly no opportunity cost and very little life cost.
If you're slowrolling it because you're trying to avoid its downside, that means you're not gaining the advantage of 2 additional mana on all your early turns, which in turn makes it less impactful and not worth a ban. Mana Crypt on Turn 5, for example, doesn't do a whole lot in terms of explosiveness or the game snowballing out of control. Players could have ramped past that with "fair" cards by that point.
In typical EDH metas, which are somewhere around "game ends on turn 10," 15 life is what you'll lose from Mana Crypt played on T1(on average). That's sizably more than "very little" and it could easily be higher. I know you're saying there is no/little opportunity cost and very little life loss, but that doesn't make it true or factual. In fact, it is certainly not true.
The other question is unreal acceleration into what? It isn't too much mana too quickly like Channel, Tolarian Academy, or Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary. Outside of a "power level" ban, which isn't a ban criteria, I don't see how this would get banned, especially when it is ostensibly worse than Sol Ring in the typical playgroup and average game of EDH.
You've effectively described what Mana Crypt does when it is played. I don't dispute that. However, the fact does not speak for itself. Just because Mana Crypt does those things doesn't mean that those things are "unreal" or "[too] explosive". You need to explain why those interactions meet the RC's stated criteria for banning cards. I'm saying that it doesn't meet any of them. It doesn't centralize the game, it isn't too much mana too quickly as the cards banned for that are clearly far beyond the scope of what Mana Crypt does because MC never generates more than 2 mana, there is no barrier to entry because of it (more than ever now), and power level isn't a ban criteria. So why does it deserve a ban under the RC's express criteria?
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
There is no way that Leovold gets banned due to an interaction with one specific card. We already have one card combos with generals like Prosh, Niv-Mizzet, and Teferi.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Were you all so unified that it needed to be banned that.ypu didn't even have to discuss it? You all just silently agreed to take it behind the woodshed?
More seriously though, the format appears to be pretty healthy right now. Was there any major discussions at the meeting? Are you discussing anything that made recent waves on the forums like Iona, new Selvana, or off color fetches?
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Was that the meeting for the upcoming announcement? Isn't the announcement still like 2 weeks away?
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[Modern] Allies
Two weeks is tight. Announcements have to be written, Magic Online and various resources updated (including possible translations). Rules changes had to be discussed earlier - the CR is totally locked down at this point. People underestimate how coordinated everything needs to be.
Thats fair. Well, good luck in your preparations.
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[Modern] Allies
This gave me a real good chuckle. That said, I don't know why they would waste time discussing a legend that people have been playing for less than a month. I imagine the real discussion for Leovold would come in 6-12 months once they can get an idea if people are playing him oppressively, frequently, and all over. If he isn't, just like Narset, Zur, Prossh, etc., he will be safe.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
RivenVII, it sounds suspiciously like you've been paying attention to how we do things and put some thought into correlating the data you've gathered into a reasoned response. Based on my observations, it seems like you might not be internetting correctly. Commonly-accepted practice is to react emotionally on a dearth of information and lack of understanding process, write a manifesto on how we hate <your group>, and launch into thinly-veiled personal attacks. Not once did you question my parentage or intellect. You have made my job more difficult by ensuring that I now have to actually pay attention to what you say, since it appears that you can string together quite coherent thoughts.
Probably not gonna happen, just as how the much more banworthy Tooth and Nail will probably survive this round of bannings again as well.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Wouldn't hold my breath on Hulk. It's not super broken but it'll end up getting the reanimate/clone treatment like Prime Time.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
Will it though? Without some way to abuse it and nothing juicy in my deck to nab, I would much rather use my clone on utility like Sad Robot or Fact or Fiction Sphinx.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Yeah, that's the biggest argument that is made against it's unban and it's also complete and utter bollocks. Given how many better targets there usually are at that point in the game, AND the extra resources that need to be dedicated to getting the Hulk to work (Namely, you must have a sac outlet at present) means that no, it won't be the Nr. 1 choice all the time unlike Prime Time. Prime Time was always the best choice, Hulk sure as hell won't be. I'd much rather grab something like Molten Primordial most of the time - and that's not even a very high tier card.
I am definitely in this camp as well - to really take advantage of Hulk, you need to build into sac-outlets and be heavy into reanimation, and a lot of decks are not built that way - even decks taking advantage of the clone copy of it. I think Hulk would definitely make the cEDH scene interesting by elevating a lot of GWx and GBx decks. It would also be kinda cute to see a casual deck dump out a bunch of utility dudes or grab another fatty.
I think Hulk is one of those old bans like Worldgorger Dragon - they wanted to stop potential 'bad combos' but the ammunition out there today is significant enough that this wouldn't immediately be an auto-include in any list.
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
Leovold unequivocally needs banning, but I expect it to be a year or so of getting annoyed every so often by mind twist tribal.
Also, I think it's long time past a few cards getting a new look.
These cards just...they just don't even compare to cards that are legal and egregious already. I don't have a raft of great reasoning but it feels pretty obvious to me that the time has come on those cards.
EDH is basically the graveyard shenanigans and ramp format. Might as well just go the rest o the way.
I can play (all the degenerate ramp cards), Yawgmoth's Will, Necropotence and Time Spiral and Survival of the Fittest and Intuition and Vampiric Tutor -- just let it go guys
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Actually, no one really cares about Greel, Mind Raker.
Greel requires you to discard 2 and doesn't affect the table
Besides all that it's a metaphor for all the fun mind twisting the table for 6 is going to be.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall