Ok...so I get banning prophet (I dont agree with it, but I get it)...
BUT WHY THE **** DO WE STILL HAVE: Narset, Ad Nauseam, Doomsday, Hermit Druid? Basically the "oops I won" cards?!? I was expecting to see a few bans, seeing only prophet really makes me question their decisions a lot.
Because none of those are "OOPS" i won. You need to build very specifically around them to make for an easy win, which is why they're left alone.
They are all cards that if they go off, the entire deck does a chain reaction of events, typically too early in the game for many decks to respond or they basically turn a game into a gamble. I play cutthroat and have a 6-4 against these...but it's never a game of skill, it's a game of degenerate blow outs. I either land a 2cc answer or they go off. The deck is doing all the work, there's hardly any real player interaction and these types of decks vastly restrict viable decks in comp metas. I can't tell you how many decks Ive tried to make and asked "how do i beat [insert deck]"...and had to scrap it. I run a top tier derevi deck and i understand S-tier deck types, but I favor a game of options and moves in effect, not "hey my hand is better than yours, guess i'm good at magic". I lost the last 2 tournaments to ad nauseam combo going off t2, while I'm on my t1...both times stuck with several 2cc answers that beat it, but because I went after that person I lose. Many of the other decks can't even react to the thing either. It shouldn't be about luck of opening draws and turn order.
Glass canon decks are almost always bad for metas because they turn it into luck and high risk gambits, not skill and layers of pathing. Regardless of win %, they random players out of games and are toxic to the concept of a skill influenced game.
Unfortunately, I think the only solution that makes everyone happy here is to self-police your own play group with regards to these kind of cards. Maybe they're all used as part of the same kind of deck that runs the same kind of combo in your meta, but other people use them in more fair ways where they're just good cards, not monstrosities. There's no reason to ruin other people's fun by banning them for competitive players who only see them degenerate-ly.
I am not a huge fan of banning cards, but in my experience doomsday, ad nauseam, and a few others cards always turn into broken combos that suck the fun out of games and put tons of stress on deck builds to allocate answers (and now we cant even mulligan aggressively for those answers). Narset is a card I like, but often results in a degenerate deck that only a few deck types can deal with. I feel the only thing that makes narset fair is if we started banning all the broken mana rocks (I personally hate mana crypt/sol ring/mana vault since they result in blow out games too often).
The best cutthroat EDH games have several layers of answers and people trying to assemble infinites or locks...it's only when we get to "turn 2, drop hand, combo, I win?" that the game just feels stupid. No one was out played, skill wasn't a factor, and you waste several spots in a deck just to have enough redundancy to draw an answer early
I have said this before and I will say it now, Prophet of Kruphix isn't really the problem, it's his her colors.
Playing UG or UGx means that PoK will join the party with his her best buddies Consecrated Sphinx, Palinchron, DEN and probably every other non-legendary creature people complained about here. And if you have this selection at hand, of course not every tutor target will be PoK. But he's she's just more fuel to the fire of UG (little color pie joke...). PoK would be totally okay, if he she wouln't be played with these creatures. Just imagine him her in RW! Totally fair. So don't ban PoK, ban UG instead! (For clarification, this isn't meant seriously...)
Actually, I don't know how to fix this... But PoK alone was never the problem and most don't seem to see this.
Prophet of Kruphix is female.
Prophet of Kruphix is not legendary, and so therefore any given prophet could be any gender.
My only deck with Prophet was Vorel. Since I had to remove the card that gave me a turn at the end of each of my opponents' turns (although Leyline of Anticipation/Vedalken Orrery/Alchemist's Refuge + Seedborn Muse still gets me there), I decided to replace it with Lighthouse Chronologist in order to take a turn at the end of each of my opponents' turns. Vorel essentially lets me reduce the cost for leveling him up by U, too. Not a huge discount, obviously, but it's a discount. (Alternatively, I frequently have Astral Cornucopia with 8-16 counters on it...)
We've been using a slightly-modified Vancouver at my LGS's League for a while now, the only difference being that we scry x, where x is 7 minus the number of cards in your hand instead of scrying 1. Glad to see Partial Paris go.
I'm largely indifferent to the Rule 4 change, since it effects so few games. I may have to look into a Daxos of Meletis deck now that he can use everyone's activated abilities.
Prophet of Kruphix should have left the format a year ago. My only complaint is that this takes effect on the last day of this season of my League and now I need to find a replacement to run in my Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck before 6 PM.
I have said this before and I will say it now, Prophet of Kruphix isn't really the problem, it's his her colors.
Playing UG or UGx means that PoK will join the party with his her best buddies Consecrated Sphinx, Palinchron, DEN and probably every other non-legendary creature people complained about here. And if you have this selection at hand, of course not every tutor target will be PoK. But he's she's just more fuel to the fire of UG (little color pie joke...). PoK would be totally okay, if he she wouln't be played with these creatures. Just imagine him her in RW! Totally fair. So don't ban PoK, ban UG instead! (For clarification, this isn't meant seriously...)
Actually, I don't know how to fix this... But PoK alone was never the problem and most don't seem to see this.
Prophet of Kruphix is female.
Prophet of Kruphix is not legendary, and so therefore any given prophet could be any gender.
Prophet of Kruphix is based directly on the Oracle of Delphi, which was a sibyl or priestess. Evidence points to all Prophets of Kruphix being female as well.
So happy right now. Might just get some Commander games going at some point and be super sarcastic or loudly passive aggressive toward the Simic players in our group. "They banned PoK? Really? I had noooooooooooo idea!"
I may not be able to contain my joy. I have Kool & The Gang's "Celebration" on a loop right now. just so happy.
Happiest I've been since they banned Griselbrand. Great day. Will toss in more goodies in this year's Grixis Exchange for sure.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
The issue with the mulligan rule and glass-canon is that some glass canons rely on only 2 things: mana ramp and commander. Mana ramp is already a redundant effect in those decks, so them pulling a playable 7-6 card is easy and they are largely not effected by the mulligan change. My 3 color derevi deck though now has to hope i get my colors AAAAAND an answer. Before I could aggressively partial paris to have my colors and a turn 2 "no you don't get to play your dumb card" hate bear/counter spell. Now I have to pad my mana base and hate cards even more, harming my toolbox space. I think decks like hermit druid are going to suffer...but ad nauseam and narset? No, they likely become stronger now because they are mana rock dependent and allocate tons of space to them already.
Currently I beat these decks 6-4...but it's not about win %, it's about how it's not a game. I stress over deck space to counter these degenerate decks then aggressively partial paris to thwart them. Then when we actually play it comes down to if i can draw those answers and who goes first. It's luck...not player skill beyond the deck design. I want to win through decisions with multiple options, not dropping opening hands and seeing who won.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I've yet to play with anyone who didn't absolutely love the "Gis mulligan to playable but don't be a douchebag." Every group I've brought it up with, it's like you can see the lightbulb go on above their heads as they realize they don't have to risk low land hands or keep sketchy bull***** and we can all just play a fun game with playable hands because it's supposed to be fun, damnit
Rule 4 always felt like a relic to me - something that ended up in there when the time came to formalize the rules, more than something that was doing much of anything important for the format. It certainly was never intended to provide actual advantages. It makes sense for it to go. The announcement mentions that the RC seems to feel that the rule had some flavor value (as with many of the RC's ideas about flavor, I disagree; it was a highly-meta kludge of a rule that represented nothing and violated player expectations), but I'm glad that they didn't let that get in the way of making a good change.
This ban has left my Wife devastated. Prophet of Kruphix was her favorite card and she doesn't want to play with her Kruphix EDH deck anymore because of the ban. We have a very aggressive and competitive meta (MLD, T1-T5 kills, Ad Nauseum combo, R/B Storm, Elf Ball, etc.) so our meta didn't care about PoK in the least. We were more worried about countering Ad Nauseum, keeping Malek off board, exiling The Mimeoplasm's graveyard and making sure we weren't blown out by a well timed Armageddon all while keeping the Elf player in check.
Now she feels a bit left out since a T3/4 PoK, into her commander on the next opponents' turn would lead into her floating 10 mana by her turn and using it control the board or simply Gen Wave for an excessive amount. Now she likely can't keep up with the meta.
This ban has left my Wife devastated. Prophet of Kruphix was her favorite card and she doesn't want to play with her Kruphix EDH deck anymore because of the ban. We have a very aggressive and competitive meta (MLD, T1-T5 kills, Ad Nauseum combo, R/B Storm, Elf Ball, etc.) so our meta didn't care about PoK in the least. We were more worried about countering Ad Nauseum, keeping Malek off board, exiling The Mimeoplasm's graveyard and making sure we weren't blown out by a well timed Armageddon all while keeping the Elf player in check.
Now she feels a bit left out since a T3/4 PoK, into her commander on the next opponents' turn would lead into her floating 10 mana by her turn and using it control the board or simply Gen Wave for an excessive amount. Now she likely can't keep up with the meta.
'Tis a shame.
If you play in a consistent group, you should be able to house rule PoK in for your games, and help her find an alternative card for pick-up games.
This ban has left my Wife devastated. Prophet of Kruphix was her favorite card and she doesn't want to play with her Kruphix EDH deck anymore because of the ban. We have a very aggressive and competitive meta (MLD, T1-T5 kills, Ad Nauseum combo, R/B Storm, Elf Ball, etc.) so our meta didn't care about PoK in the least. We were more worried about countering Ad Nauseum, keeping Malek off board, exiling The Mimeoplasm's graveyard and making sure we weren't blown out by a well timed Armageddon all while keeping the Elf player in check.
Now she feels a bit left out since a T3/4 PoK, into her commander on the next opponents' turn would lead into her floating 10 mana by her turn and using it control the board or simply Gen Wave for an excessive amount. Now she likely can't keep up with the meta.
'Tis a shame.
Maybe you've already heard this, but it sounds like the RC's banlist is not made for you. It also sounds like you have a consistent playgroup, so houserules should be possible. No shame in that.
Okay, so I'll start with the good first. I have long been against it and I am SO HAPPY that the utter trash that was Partial Paris is gone. I don't particularly care what the math was, but if you were sculpting your hand as certain cutthroat EDH players in this thread had been, you were not really playing Magic. Period. My group started using the Vancouver mulligans as soon as they went live (as opposed to full Paris mulls with first one free) and we've been quite pleased with them. I'm glad to see the RC has come around to the same conclusion and I think it is a very positive trend for them.
I am also pleased with the Rule 4 change. It was something that you needed to consider when playing cards like Havengul Lich and was a large part why I usually avoided such cards. Being able to generate whatever colored mana you need if you have the capability while still having color identity restrictions, I think, is a positive outcome for maintaining the flavor of commander and removing needlessly complicated rules hurdles, especially when you look at the stupidity that was Celestial Dawn where it just locked you out of the game if you were playing anything that didn't have white in it. I don't feel bad for the Zedruu players who ran that at all.
Lastly, we come to Prophet of Kruphix. I've defended this card for as long as it has been discussed on these boards and I am sad to see it go. This feeling comes mostly from the fact that I played it myself and didn't generally end up in the game states that so many lamented, which I feel like is a product of the level of competition and play that my playgroup has (not cutthroat, but not durdly, so, semi-competitive). Many times, the RC's bans are things that don't apply to me. I didn't miss Sylvan Primordial much because I hardly played it while it was legal. I missed Primeval Titan a little bit, but I TOTALLY got why he was banned. In this case, it is far more of a gray area and is a card that I'd consider on the more-legal side of the line. However, based on the RC's reasoning for the ban, I can see that my experiences with the card were not typical for EDH. For that reason, I can understand why she was banned and I'm not nearly as sad about it as I thought I would be, although I am a bit surprised.
I'm probably going to replace her with a Time Warp in the only list I had that ran her because she was basically a functional reprint amirite? (duh-dun-tiss). I also see Deadeye Navigator being not-so-good with PoK gone, so he might be cut by me as well.
One final thing is that I am so. *******. glad. that the RC does not ban based on "competitive" EDH in any way shape or form. You want a surefire way for them to destroy the format? Look no further. The fact that people actually come here and ask for Doomsday or Ad Nauseam to be banned is a freaking joke. And if you are a "competitive" player and do not realize that the death of Partial Paris is the worst thing that could ever happen to those fast combo decks that you boogeyman to us, there is no helping you. You are not playing the same kind of Magic that the rest of us are in this thread and coming in here WITH YOUR CAPITAL LETTERS to complain that the ban list does not cater to YOU is one of the more selfish things I've heard. What a joke.
I literally run Prophet because I'm not spending like $15 on a Seedborn Muse
Idiotic.
I kinda agree with this. Granted they both have their pros and cons, but PoK is a much cheaper alternative than Seedborn with out sacrificing too much. They should ban Seed born muse too.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
This ban has left my Wife devastated. Prophet of Kruphix was her favorite card and she doesn't want to play with her Kruphix EDH deck anymore because of the ban. We have a very aggressive and competitive meta (MLD, T1-T5 kills, Ad Nauseum combo, R/B Storm, Elf Ball, etc.) so our meta didn't care about PoK in the least. We were more worried about countering Ad Nauseum, keeping Malek off board, exiling The Mimeoplasm's graveyard and making sure we weren't blown out by a well timed Armageddon all while keeping the Elf player in check.
Now she feels a bit left out since a T3/4 PoK, into her commander on the next opponents' turn would lead into her floating 10 mana by her turn and using it control the board or simply Gen Wave for an excessive amount. Now she likely can't keep up with the meta.
'Tis a shame.
Maybe you've already heard this, but it sounds like the RC's banlist is not made for you. It also sounds like you have a consistent playgroup, so houserules should be possible. No shame in that.
This ban has left my Wife devastated. Prophet of Kruphix was her favorite card and she doesn't want to play with her Kruphix EDH deck anymore because of the ban. We have a very aggressive and competitive meta (MLD, T1-T5 kills, Ad Nauseum combo, R/B Storm, Elf Ball, etc.) so our meta didn't care about PoK in the least. We were more worried about countering Ad Nauseum, keeping Malek off board, exiling The Mimeoplasm's graveyard and making sure we weren't blown out by a well timed Armageddon all while keeping the Elf player in check.
Now she feels a bit left out since a T3/4 PoK, into her commander on the next opponents' turn would lead into her floating 10 mana by her turn and using it control the board or simply Gen Wave for an excessive amount. Now she likely can't keep up with the meta.
'Tis a shame.
If you play in a consistent group, you should be able to house rule PoK in for your games, and help her find an alternative card for pick-up games.
We would, but our local shops host weekly EDH tournaments that follow the ban list. Playing casually, we will likely be fine, but we love our pod tournaments. $5 entry, winner gets the pods entry in store credit. The winner of each pod can put up half their winnings in the "Winners Pod" and take that pool of store credit. Sometimes leave with $50 in Store Credit to throw at singles.
It's what initially bred the competitive environment.
This ban has left my Wife devastated. Prophet of Kruphix was her favorite card and she doesn't want to play with her Kruphix EDH deck anymore because of the ban. We have a very aggressive and competitive meta (MLD, T1-T5 kills, Ad Nauseum combo, R/B Storm, Elf Ball, etc.) so our meta didn't care about PoK in the least. We were more worried about countering Ad Nauseum, keeping Malek off board, exiling The Mimeoplasm's graveyard and making sure we weren't blown out by a well timed Armageddon all while keeping the Elf player in check.
Now she feels a bit left out since a T3/4 PoK, into her commander on the next opponents' turn would lead into her floating 10 mana by her turn and using it control the board or simply Gen Wave for an excessive amount. Now she likely can't keep up with the meta.
'Tis a shame.
Maybe you've already heard this, but it sounds like the RC's banlist is not made for you. It also sounds like you have a consistent playgroup, so houserules should be possible. No shame in that.
This ban has left my Wife devastated. Prophet of Kruphix was her favorite card and she doesn't want to play with her Kruphix EDH deck anymore because of the ban. We have a very aggressive and competitive meta (MLD, T1-T5 kills, Ad Nauseum combo, R/B Storm, Elf Ball, etc.) so our meta didn't care about PoK in the least. We were more worried about countering Ad Nauseum, keeping Malek off board, exiling The Mimeoplasm's graveyard and making sure we weren't blown out by a well timed Armageddon all while keeping the Elf player in check.
Now she feels a bit left out since a T3/4 PoK, into her commander on the next opponents' turn would lead into her floating 10 mana by her turn and using it control the board or simply Gen Wave for an excessive amount. Now she likely can't keep up with the meta.
'Tis a shame.
If you play in a consistent group, you should be able to house rule PoK in for your games, and help her find an alternative card for pick-up games.
We would, but our local shops host weekly EDH tournaments that follow the ban list. Playing casually, we will likely be fine, but we love our pod tournaments. $5 entry, winner gets the pods entry in store credit. The winner of each pod can put up half their winnings in the "Winners Pod" and take that pool of store credit. Sometimes leave with $50 in Store Credit to throw at singles.
It's what initially bred the competitive environment.
Does she run Seedborn Muse? Check out my Omnath list in my signature, it is mono-green, but has a ton of "makes big mana" cards in it that might be able to help her. Also, if her entire deck relied heavily on a T3/4 PoK or it would lose/fall behind, how consistent could that possibly be?
I've been wanting to see Prophet banned for a long time. I've considered it the most unfair and unfun card in commander for a while. I even run a [c]Roon of the Hidden Realm[c] deck that I refuse to run Prophet in. I'll be so very glad to see it leave.
This ban has left my Wife devastated. Prophet of Kruphix was her favorite card and she doesn't want to play with her Kruphix EDH deck anymore because of the ban. We have a very aggressive and competitive meta (MLD, T1-T5 kills, Ad Nauseum combo, R/B Storm, Elf Ball, etc.) so our meta didn't care about PoK in the least. We were more worried about countering Ad Nauseum, keeping Malek off board, exiling The Mimeoplasm's graveyard and making sure we weren't blown out by a well timed Armageddon all while keeping the Elf player in check.
Now she feels a bit left out since a T3/4 PoK, into her commander on the next opponents' turn would lead into her floating 10 mana by her turn and using it control the board or simply Gen Wave for an excessive amount. Now she likely can't keep up with the meta.
'Tis a shame.
Maybe you've already heard this, but it sounds like the RC's banlist is not made for you. It also sounds like you have a consistent playgroup, so houserules should be possible. No shame in that.
This ban has left my Wife devastated. Prophet of Kruphix was her favorite card and she doesn't want to play with her Kruphix EDH deck anymore because of the ban. We have a very aggressive and competitive meta (MLD, T1-T5 kills, Ad Nauseum combo, R/B Storm, Elf Ball, etc.) so our meta didn't care about PoK in the least. We were more worried about countering Ad Nauseum, keeping Malek off board, exiling The Mimeoplasm's graveyard and making sure we weren't blown out by a well timed Armageddon all while keeping the Elf player in check.
Now she feels a bit left out since a T3/4 PoK, into her commander on the next opponents' turn would lead into her floating 10 mana by her turn and using it control the board or simply Gen Wave for an excessive amount. Now she likely can't keep up with the meta.
'Tis a shame.
If you play in a consistent group, you should be able to house rule PoK in for your games, and help her find an alternative card for pick-up games.
We would, but our local shops host weekly EDH tournaments that follow the ban list. Playing casually, we will likely be fine, but we love our pod tournaments. $5 entry, winner gets the pods entry in store credit. The winner of each pod can put up half their winnings in the "Winners Pod" and take that pool of store credit. Sometimes leave with $50 in Store Credit to throw at singles.
It's what initially bred the competitive environment.
Does she run Seedborn Muse? Check out my Omnath list in my signature, it is mono-green, but has a ton of "makes big mana" cards in it that might be able to help her. Also, if her entire deck relied heavily on a T3/4 PoK or it would lose/fall behind, how consistent could that possibly be?
It was the ideal T3 (turn 2 sometimes). Yeah, I got her a foil German Seedborn. Not quite as good since she can't cast her commander on her opponent's turn. She can still explode early on (T1 Explore into GSZ for 0, next turn skyshroud claim, etc.) all her deck does is ramp and draw cards (with counter back up). Typically winning with Lab Maniac or decking her opponents. Landing an early unanswered prophet was just a powerful play for her.
Kind of like LED for me in my The Mimeoplasm deck. Lets me win on T1 or T2 if I have the right hand (doesn't happen often but sometimes I oops the victory).
Also, nice Omnath. I can't honestly make any suggestions (every one that I thought of you were already running. xD).
Okay, so I'll start with the good first. I have long been against it and I am SO HAPPY that the utter trash that was Partial Paris is gone. I don't particularly care what the math was, but if you were sculpting your hand as certain cutthroat EDH players in this thread had been, you were not really playing Magic. Period. My group started using the Vancouver mulligans as soon as they went live (as opposed to full Paris mulls with first one free) and we've been quite pleased with them. I'm glad to see the RC has come around to the same conclusion and I think it is a very positive trend for them.
I am also pleased with the Rule 4 change. It was something that you needed to consider when playing cards like Havengul Lich and was a large part why I usually avoided such cards. Being able to generate whatever colored mana you need if you have the capability while still having color identity restrictions, I think, is a positive outcome for maintaining the flavor of commander and removing needlessly complicated rules hurdles, especially when you look at the stupidity that was Celestial Dawn where it just locked you out of the game if you were playing anything that didn't have white in it. I don't feel bad for the Zedruu players who ran that at all.
Lastly, we come to Prophet of Kruphix. I've defended this card for as long as it has been discussed on these boards and I am sad to see it go. This feeling comes mostly from the fact that I played it myself and didn't generally end up in the game states that so many lamented, which I feel like is a product of the level of competition and play that my playgroup has (not cutthroat, but not durdly, so, semi-competitive). Many times, the RC's bans are things that don't apply to me. I didn't miss Sylvan Primordial much because I hardly played it while it was legal. I missed Primeval Titan a little bit, but I TOTALLY got why he was banned. In this case, it is far more of a gray area and is a card that I'd consider on the more-legal side of the line. However, based on the RC's reasoning for the ban, I can see that my experiences with the card were not typical for EDH. For that reason, I can understand why she was banned and I'm not nearly as sad about it as I thought I would be, although I am a bit surprised.
I'm probably going to replace her with a Time Warp in the only list I had that ran her because she was basically a functional reprint amirite? (duh-dun-tiss). I also see Deadeye Navigator being not-so-good with PoK gone, so he might be cut by me as well.
One final thing is that I am so. *******. glad. that the RC does not ban based on "competitive" EDH in any way shape or form. You want a surefire way for them to destroy the format? Look no further. The fact that people actually come here and ask for Doomsday or Ad Nauseam to be banned is a freaking joke. And if you are a "competitive" player and do not realize that the death of Partial Paris is the worst thing that could ever happen to those fast combo decks that you boogeyman to us, there is no helping you. You are not playing the same kind of Magic that the rest of us are in this thread and coming in here WITH YOUR CAPITAL LETTERS to complain that the ban list does not cater to YOU is one of the more selfish things I've heard. What a joke.
We've butted heads a few times, but I'm glad you're seeing my side of the reasoning as well. The RC worded it better than I could.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
One final thing is that I am so. *******. glad. that the RC does not ban based on "competitive" EDH in any way shape or form. You want a surefire way for them to destroy the format? Look no further. The fact that people actually come here and ask for Doomsday or Ad Nauseam to be banned is a freaking joke. And if you are a "competitive" player and do not realize that the death of Partial Paris is the worst thing that could ever happen to those fast combo decks that you boogeyman to us, there is no helping you. You are not playing the same kind of Magic that the rest of us are in this thread and coming in here WITH YOUR CAPITAL LETTERS to complain that the ban list does not cater to YOU is one of the more selfish things I've heard. What a joke.
I say this with a lot of experience in EDH with over a year and half of being one of the cities top EDH player...these are not uneducated opinions (I hate to point this out, but the tone and dismissal is rather low blow). On that note, it isn't just for comp play that I promote these ideas...I feel glass canon is notoriously hated in ALL skill levels. Many players remark EDH as degenerate legacy combos that ruin fun decks. I've tried getting more casual players into the meta, but inevitably a glass canon walks in and they ask "what could I have done to stop them?"...my only answer is telling them they must run [X] decks types and that numerous strategies simply won't work if those are floating around. That fun RW deck that got you excited into EDH? Yeah...it's going to do terrible against a lot of top tier just because of your colors and odd kit of tools to thwart those decks while still being effective in winning. I want the format to open up and not have to tell them "You either run blue or win fast" (because literally that is the entire comp EDH meta).
I'm hesitant to ban certain cards, I really love casual narset decks. I would rather find other things to hinder it (some of the mana rocks maybe, but not all). But cards that notoriously are "this wins if it resolves because my deck does [combo chain]"...don't lead to fun and fair decks. I feel Hermit druid is a tough one, because that is a functional card, I'd rather attack the insta win cards it combos into, but maybe banning 1 card is better than banning those.
As a comp player, new blood is important. It's hard to bring in new people on a casual level when these decks float around. My whole deck came to be because I got really mad about these decks and built a deck specifically to counter them to survive, but many players feel that EDH is a bad format once they see it and it divides the community too much. No one enjoys losing to a deck they can't respond to, you feel like you have no control and your entire deck is useless, which is the worst feeling for many players. They might now want to make a $2k deck, but they wanna feel like their budget brew can interact and do something. Non-interactive decks are the bane of casual play.
It's funny I would still argue that it is a card not worthy of banning, but I also don't think it is that good of a card and it doesn't fit into 5/6s of the decks I play, so whatever ban the crutch card that people can't seem to deal with, whateva :thereisnoshrugemoji
The only thing Prophet is good for is it is amazing Training Wheels, it teaches people more about what is possible and what to expect and theoretically you should then be prepared to deal with all types of cards when the turn is not yours.
Also Prophet is probably the most low impact card on that list next to Braids, Cabal Minion (Roff doesn't count because he costs 2 mana) (also probably shouldn't be banned)
The best cutthroat EDH games have several layers of answers and people trying to assemble infinites or locks...it's only when we get to "turn 2, drop hand, combo, I win?" that the game just feels stupid. No one was out played, skill wasn't a factor, and you waste several spots in a deck just to have enough redundancy to draw an answer early
My only deck with Prophet was Vorel. Since I had to remove the card that gave me a turn at the end of each of my opponents' turns (although Leyline of Anticipation/Vedalken Orrery/Alchemist's Refuge + Seedborn Muse still gets me there), I decided to replace it with Lighthouse Chronologist in order to take a turn at the end of each of my opponents' turns. Vorel essentially lets me reduce the cost for leveling him up by U, too. Not a huge discount, obviously, but it's a discount. (Alternatively, I frequently have Astral Cornucopia with 8-16 counters on it...)
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
I'm largely indifferent to the Rule 4 change, since it effects so few games. I may have to look into a Daxos of Meletis deck now that he can use everyone's activated abilities.
Prophet of Kruphix should have left the format a year ago. My only complaint is that this takes effect on the last day of this season of my League and now I need to find a replacement to run in my Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck before 6 PM.
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
I may not be able to contain my joy. I have Kool & The Gang's "Celebration" on a loop right now. just so happy.
Happiest I've been since they banned Griselbrand. Great day. Will toss in more goodies in this year's Grixis Exchange for sure.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
But: Great changes all around!
Currently I beat these decks 6-4...but it's not about win %, it's about how it's not a game. I stress over deck space to counter these degenerate decks then aggressively partial paris to thwart them. Then when we actually play it comes down to if i can draw those answers and who goes first. It's luck...not player skill beyond the deck design. I want to win through decisions with multiple options, not dropping opening hands and seeing who won.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Idiotic.
Now she feels a bit left out since a T3/4 PoK, into her commander on the next opponents' turn would lead into her floating 10 mana by her turn and using it control the board or simply Gen Wave for an excessive amount. Now she likely can't keep up with the meta.
'Tis a shame.
My Helpdesk
[Pr] Marath | [Pr] Lovisa | Jodah | Saskia | Najeela | Yisan | Lord Windgrace | Atraxa | Meren | Gisa and Geralf
I am also pleased with the Rule 4 change. It was something that you needed to consider when playing cards like Havengul Lich and was a large part why I usually avoided such cards. Being able to generate whatever colored mana you need if you have the capability while still having color identity restrictions, I think, is a positive outcome for maintaining the flavor of commander and removing needlessly complicated rules hurdles, especially when you look at the stupidity that was Celestial Dawn where it just locked you out of the game if you were playing anything that didn't have white in it. I don't feel bad for the Zedruu players who ran that at all.
Lastly, we come to Prophet of Kruphix. I've defended this card for as long as it has been discussed on these boards and I am sad to see it go. This feeling comes mostly from the fact that I played it myself and didn't generally end up in the game states that so many lamented, which I feel like is a product of the level of competition and play that my playgroup has (not cutthroat, but not durdly, so, semi-competitive). Many times, the RC's bans are things that don't apply to me. I didn't miss Sylvan Primordial much because I hardly played it while it was legal. I missed Primeval Titan a little bit, but I TOTALLY got why he was banned. In this case, it is far more of a gray area and is a card that I'd consider on the more-legal side of the line. However, based on the RC's reasoning for the ban, I can see that my experiences with the card were not typical for EDH. For that reason, I can understand why she was banned and I'm not nearly as sad about it as I thought I would be, although I am a bit surprised.
I'm probably going to replace her with a Time Warp in the only list I had that ran her because she was basically a functional reprint amirite? (duh-dun-tiss). I also see Deadeye Navigator being not-so-good with PoK gone, so he might be cut by me as well.
One final thing is that I am so. *******. glad. that the RC does not ban based on "competitive" EDH in any way shape or form. You want a surefire way for them to destroy the format? Look no further. The fact that people actually come here and ask for Doomsday or Ad Nauseam to be banned is a freaking joke. And if you are a "competitive" player and do not realize that the death of Partial Paris is the worst thing that could ever happen to those fast combo decks that you boogeyman to us, there is no helping you. You are not playing the same kind of Magic that the rest of us are in this thread and coming in here WITH YOUR CAPITAL LETTERS to complain that the ban list does not cater to YOU is one of the more selfish things I've heard. What a joke.
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
I kinda agree with this. Granted they both have their pros and cons, but PoK is a much cheaper alternative than Seedborn with out sacrificing too much. They should ban Seed born muse too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
We would, but our local shops host weekly EDH tournaments that follow the ban list. Playing casually, we will likely be fine, but we love our pod tournaments. $5 entry, winner gets the pods entry in store credit. The winner of each pod can put up half their winnings in the "Winners Pod" and take that pool of store credit. Sometimes leave with $50 in Store Credit to throw at singles.
It's what initially bred the competitive environment.
Does she run Seedborn Muse? Check out my Omnath list in my signature, it is mono-green, but has a ton of "makes big mana" cards in it that might be able to help her. Also, if her entire deck relied heavily on a T3/4 PoK or it would lose/fall behind, how consistent could that possibly be?
EDH:
G[cEDH] Selvala, Heart of the StormG
URW[cEDH] Narset, the Last AirmericanURW
GWUSt. Jenara, the ArchangelGWU
UBGrimgrin, Chaos MarineUB
GOmnath, Mana BaronG
URWNarset, Justice League AmericaURW
GWUBAtraxa, Countess of CountersGWUB
GWUEstrid, Enbantress PrimeGWU
Most of my decks: http://tappedout.net/users/thraashman/
It was the ideal T3 (turn 2 sometimes). Yeah, I got her a foil German Seedborn. Not quite as good since she can't cast her commander on her opponent's turn. She can still explode early on (T1 Explore into GSZ for 0, next turn skyshroud claim, etc.) all her deck does is ramp and draw cards (with counter back up). Typically winning with Lab Maniac or decking her opponents. Landing an early unanswered prophet was just a powerful play for her.
Kind of like LED for me in my The Mimeoplasm deck. Lets me win on T1 or T2 if I have the right hand (doesn't happen often but sometimes I oops the victory).
Also, nice Omnath. I can't honestly make any suggestions (every one that I thought of you were already running. xD).
We've butted heads a few times, but I'm glad you're seeing my side of the reasoning as well. The RC worded it better than I could.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I'm hesitant to ban certain cards, I really love casual narset decks. I would rather find other things to hinder it (some of the mana rocks maybe, but not all). But cards that notoriously are "this wins if it resolves because my deck does [combo chain]"...don't lead to fun and fair decks. I feel Hermit druid is a tough one, because that is a functional card, I'd rather attack the insta win cards it combos into, but maybe banning 1 card is better than banning those.
As a comp player, new blood is important. It's hard to bring in new people on a casual level when these decks float around. My whole deck came to be because I got really mad about these decks and built a deck specifically to counter them to survive, but many players feel that EDH is a bad format once they see it and it divides the community too much. No one enjoys losing to a deck they can't respond to, you feel like you have no control and your entire deck is useless, which is the worst feeling for many players. They might now want to make a $2k deck, but they wanna feel like their budget brew can interact and do something. Non-interactive decks are the bane of casual play.
The only thing Prophet is good for is it is amazing Training Wheels, it teaches people more about what is possible and what to expect and theoretically you should then be prepared to deal with all types of cards when the turn is not yours.
Also Prophet is probably the most low impact card on that list next to Braids, Cabal Minion (Roff doesn't count because he costs 2 mana) (also probably shouldn't be banned)