The current banlist is egregiously inconsistent. It's like gun law. Some states have it; some don't. Because it's unclear, people die all the time to irresponsible gunfire.
People are people. That's as true as we can get. We're always gonna debate/argue on inconsistencies. But they're definitely some absolutes. Like making more mana than what it costs. Why Sol Ring over a card, say Bloom Tender? Because one is ubiquitous and the other requires you to play green. And another to add more; <repeat. Isn't that simple to comprehend.
But your execution of THAT proposed rule is inconsistent. Bloom Tender can make 5 mana and costs 2. I don't understand why you are saying it is simple when it clearly is not. For you should Mana Vault be banned? Why or why not. Does fast mana, or more mana than it costs only apply to artifacts? Is there a casting cost cut-off? That's the point, if you are going to use criteria like "ubiquitous" that is not a hard and fast rule, its an opinion.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Why is Sol Ring ubiquitous? Firstly it's in every Commander product, a colorless artifact. It can be accessed by every color. It's safe to say that since WotC endorses it literally and RC has said nothing about it, they're giving the 'OK' sign to everyone. But as I said, Just because it's endorsed doesn't mean it's not a broken card. The previous sentence is what I'm driving at. People have become normalized by its presence, and that's what's not alright about it.
If we had to be consistent, then yes cololess cards like Mana Vault becomes a potential card for banning as well. The format will be better for it.
Again, cards like Bloom Tender need some work; like playing more than one color to maximize its potential. No one will run it in a mono-green deck. Ubiquitous cards like Sol Ring is colorless, no summmoning sickness, and require no work to produce more mana than it costs.
@ Xoth: You're right. This is why people can't be trusted with powerful things like guns. See the link here? People-Guns, Players-Sol Ring. I'm just not sure what you're saying with your second line. lol
me.. basic plains.
opponents mountain sol ring.... then island top.. then swamp sol ring, top and map... back to me... island... stony silence.... *Laugh manically*.
There are ways to deal with sol ring... most invovle killing the guy that used it. mana is mana it doesn't doing anything without you having anything to spend it on.
I am not quite sure why metalworker is banned, i understand why it could come off... I guess it is that if it is giving you a ton of mana that is because you have things to cast with it. It is slightly easier to tutor and abuse.. but not by much.
Good luck trying to kill the T1 Sol Ring player when they follow up with crazy immediately after. T3 Tamiyo Emblem is an example of the crazy stuff I've got with it.
I'd like to point at Prophet of Kruphix again. As one guy in my playgroup stated: "Prophet is like Jace TMS in 60-card magic. It's never the last card that gets played, nor is it the card that immediately ensures a combo win like Tooth & Nail. It is, however, the last card that gets played in a normal game before turning it into archenemy, and even then, the Prophet player usually has such an advantage, they tend to win."
Generally speaking, it just puts the Simic/Bant/Bug/Rug player in such a great position, it's very hard to come back from. This doesn't go for the guy playing it at T5, but it does go for the one who lands it at a proper time, once they used the many abilities the Simic player has to generate card advantage, so they can counter whatever the opponent tries, and advance their board state if there's no direct threat to Kruphix. Contrary to popular belief, not every deck always has immediate answers on hand, after all.
I've gone to the point of pulling the Prophet out of my Zegana deck, simply because landing it caused such a massive centralization, it was stupid. The local group's Roon player is considering the same. Whenever he sits at the table with Roon, the game ALWAYS ends up going "Play Prophet, counter your counter. Then protect it as it goes around the table, draw a truckload of cards and win." Same tends to happen with my Zegana too.
Seedborn Muse, Leyline of Anticipation and Teferi are all great cards. But, on their own, they do not allow the crazy stuff the Prophet enables. They need a second part to emulate the Prophet, giving opponents more time to react. The prophet however, is just a silly card.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I've said it multiple times before, and I'll say it again for those who haven't heard it. During every RC meeting, we do a thought exercise on taking a card off of the banned list. We set aside time specifically for that exercise. It's how Staff of Domination came off. Even if we're pretty sure nothing is worth bringing off, we discuss at least one. It keeps our minds fresh and helps reinforce to ourselves that we're following our philosophy.
That's actually kind of interesting. How often do you guys have your meetings, once a month or so?
We meet formally every quarter. We talk informally far more frequently.
Good luck trying to kill the T1 Sol Ring player when they follow up with crazy immediately after. T3 Tamiyo Emblem is an example of the crazy stuff I've got with it.
How is this possible, and even if it is, how is it Sol Ring's fault?
Good luck trying to kill the T1 Sol Ring player when they follow up with crazy immediately after. T3 Tamiyo Emblem is an example of the crazy stuff I've got with it.
How is this possible, and even if it is, how is it Sol Ring's fault?
Yet another god hand situation that needs to happen in a Blue/Green deck, with at least 3 or 4 cards in the opening hand, plus 1 or 2 god topdecks. So just another really flimsy argument that has nothing to do with Sol Ring, yeah.
Good luck trying to kill the T1 Sol Ring player when they follow up with crazy immediately after. T3 Tamiyo Emblem is an example of the crazy stuff I've got with it.
How is this possible, and even if it is, how is it Sol Ring's fault?
Yet another god hand situation that needs to happen in a Blue/Green deck, with at least 3 or 4 cards in the opening hand, plus 1 or 2 god topdecks. So just another really flimsy argument that has nothing to do with Sol Ring, yeah.
Good luck trying to kill the T1 Sol Ring player when they follow up with crazy immediately after. T3 Tamiyo Emblem is an example of the crazy stuff I've got with it.
How is this possible, and even if it is, how is it Sol Ring's fault?
Yet another god hand situation that needs to happen in a Blue/Green deck, with at least 3 or 4 cards in the opening hand, plus 1 or 2 god topdecks. So just another really flimsy argument that has nothing to do with Sol Ring, yeah.
I just stated it as an example of the crazy stuff Sol Ring does. My opening hand was 3 land, Sol Ring, Signet, Tamiyo and Cyclonic Rift. I drew another land, Doubling Season and Plasm Capture next. It wasn't an argument perhaps in favor of banning Sol Ring. It was just giving yet another example of the stupid crap that only Ring and Mana Crypt can cause. "Just kill the Sol Ring player" is a really, really stupid argument.
Guess nobody else cares about Prophet of Kruphix though?
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Assuming we ban Sol Ring, what else are we banning from Green?
Green is the color of Ramp, and Sol Ring is one of the Sol (hehe) reasons other colors can (Sometimes) keep up with it. A Simple Exploration makes green have just as much mana as any other color with a sol ring by turn 2, except it's all colored. Yeah, you need Lands in order to play them, but it's fricken GREEN; most Mono-Green commanders LOOOOOOOVE more lands than normal for one reason or another.
You remove those cheap mana rocks like Sol Ring, and no other color can keep up with Green in mana production.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Good luck trying to kill the T1 Sol Ring player when they follow up with crazy immediately after. T3 Tamiyo Emblem is an example of the crazy stuff I've got with it.
How is this possible, and even if it is, how is it Sol Ring's fault?
Yet another god hand situation that needs to happen in a Blue/Green deck, with at least 3 or 4 cards in the opening hand, plus 1 or 2 god topdecks. So just another really flimsy argument that has nothing to do with Sol Ring, yeah.
I just stated it as an example of the crazy stuff Sol Ring does. My opening hand was 3 land, Sol Ring, Signet, Tamiyo and Cyclonic Rift. I drew another land, Doubling Season and Plasm Capture next. It wasn't an argument perhaps in favor of banning Sol Ring. It was just giving yet another example of the stupid crap that only Ring and Mana Crypt can cause. "Just kill the Sol Ring player" is a really, really stupid argument.
Guess nobody else cares about Prophet of Kruphix though?
But Sol Ring didn't do that, Doubling Season is the card that doubled the counters on Tamiyo and you god-handed 3 of the cards you specifically needed out of 99. What you said is totally irrelevant to the power level of Sol Ring.
Assuming we ban Sol Ring, what else are we banning from Green?
Green is the color of Ramp, and Sol Ring is one of the Sol (hehe) reasons other colors can (Sometimes) keep up with it. A Simple Exploration makes green have just as much mana as any other color with a sol ring by turn 2, except it's all colored. Yeah, you need Lands in order to play them, but it's fricken GREEN; most Mono-Green commanders LOOOOOOOVE more lands than normal for one reason or another.
You remove those cheap mana rocks like Sol Ring, and no other color can keep up with Green in mana production.
Exploration and Carpet of Flowers are the only green mana acceleration that can really compare with sol ring, and even they are laughable in comparison. Exploration requires that you have a land heavy hand (and if you use a land heavy deck to help this, then you sacrifice having actual gas), and carpet doesn't do much against a lot of manabases, and even against mono blue, doesn't do as much early.
As it is now, blue and black can ramp better than green simply by tutoring for the broken mana rocks. So don't be too worried about green being a powerhouse.
Sol Ring I could never see banned, but I could see Mana Crypt getting the axe for being exclusive - the people with Mana Crypts are probably rocking really powerful decks anyways (That being said, please don't ban either RC, Mana Crypt needs a home).
Yeah, people really need to stop saying Sol Ring need an to be banned. Mana Crypt is the card on which they should be basing their fast mana argument because it is way more bannable.
If we had to be consistent, then yes cololess cards like Mana Vault becomes a potential card for banning as well. The format will be better for it.
Again, cards like Bloom Tender need some work; like playing more than one color to maximize its potential. No one will run it in a mono-green deck. Ubiquitous cards like Sol Ring is colorless, no summmoning sickness, and require no work to produce more mana than it costs.
I agree Bloom tender is not worthy of a ban, I was applying the rule you endorsed. My point was using criteria like "ubiquitous" makes it not a rule, but an OPINION, just like the current ban list. At that point you are saying you think your opinion of what should be banned is better than the current opinion of what should be banned. Nothing wrong there, but your inference was that it was a simple rule that could be consistently applied is not accurate.
Mana Crypt should be the target of our current efforts, costs zero gives 2. Thats a real problem especially in concert with other mana rocks.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Tbh, I've been playing with Mana Crypt for a loooong time now. I have two and switch em around decks.
I always like seeing sol ring more. Easier to copy, easier to play in control decks, etc etc.
I don't own a Mana Crypt (I had an opportunity to pick one up for a pretty good price last weekend, but passed), so I don't really have a dog in this race one way or the other, but I don't see it as a card that really needs banned. Yeah, it gives one a pretty explosive start, and yes, if you get some sort of god hand with Mana Vault, Sol Ring, a Signet and a Mox Opal, you can potentially do some insane things from turn 1, but god hands are just part of the game, and not what one wants to use as a basis for rules. I've seen people essentially win the game on turn 1 with hands like that, but more often than not I've seen them play a bunch of stuff, stall out due to having dumped their hand onto the field by end of turn 2, and end up getting ganged up on by everyone else as an obvious threat.
In 1v1 (where I think it's already banned), sure, it would probably be insurmountable, but in multiplayer? In the occasional situation where you get a hand like that (the chance of which is lessened if you don't use partial Paris mulligans, which I think is the worst default rule in the format, and which is mostly not followed in my meta), then everyone nods,and then you shuffle up and start another game. No big deal.
I feel like Mana Crypt isn't really that bad of an offender. I also feel like there could easily be some cards in upcoming commander product that could fix this problem without adversely affecting other formats.
Heck, reprinting Gorilla Shaman would probably be a good start.
Mana crypt deserves a place in magic. It's one of the few cards that are legal (in a handful of formats only) that was never available in a booster pack. Never. How cool is that?
I think that a lot of people feel that it might be one of the best cards in the format. It's definitely strong - but even if it is one of the best, it doesn't necessarily mean that it should be banned - does it?
Also, I didn't see nearly this much avarice towards it when it was $70 last year.
I played magic back before Type II was created. Anyone could use any cards - and it was some of the most fun I've ever had playing. EDH takes me back to that time - and hopefully, I can impart the same sense of wonder and fun on newer players now as the old gang did to me back then. The crypt - to me - is a clear memory of those days (although it didn't actually come out until a little later).
I don't want to see Mana Crypt banned either, it just really bothers me when people clamor to get Sol Ring banned because Mana Crypt is more of an offending card when you apply the ban philosophy to the two.
Why is Sol Ring ubiquitous? Firstly it's in every Commander product, a colorless artifact. It can be accessed by every color. It's safe to say that since WotC endorses it literally and RC has said nothing about it, they're giving the 'OK' sign to everyone. But as I said, Just because it's endorsed doesn't mean it's not a broken card. The previous sentence is what I'm driving at. People have become normalized by its presence, and that's what's not alright about it.
If we had to be consistent, then yes cololess cards like Mana Vault becomes a potential card for banning as well. The format will be better for it.
Again, cards like Bloom Tender need some work; like playing more than one color to maximize its potential. No one will run it in a mono-green deck. Ubiquitous cards like Sol Ring is colorless, no summmoning sickness, and require no work to produce more mana than it costs.
@ Xoth: You're right. This is why people can't be trusted with powerful things like guns. See the link here? People-Guns, Players-Sol Ring. I'm just not sure what you're saying with your second line. lol
Of course Sol Ring is broken. So is 90% of all the other stuff that gets played - that's why it's EDH and why people play the game. Sol Ring does not in any way, shape, or form need to be banned. All problems it can potentially cause are massively outweighed by the political problem of explosive opening hands immediately turning the game into archenemy. Every single possible argument that you can make regarding it has already been made a dozen or more times in the 763 pages of this thread, and have bore no fruition whatsoever because you and the others that think like you are an incredibly tiny minority that can be easily appeased by just housebanning it or finding other people that also don't like it to play with.
Also, your gun analogy is terrible and you should feel terrible for making it.
Good luck trying to kill the T1 Sol Ring player when they follow up with crazy immediately after. T3 Tamiyo Emblem is an example of the crazy stuff I've got with it.
How is this possible, and even if it is, how is it Sol Ring's fault?
Assuming we ban Sol Ring, what else are we banning from Green?
Green is the color of Ramp, and Sol Ring is one of the Sol (hehe) reasons other colors can (Sometimes) keep up with it. A Simple Exploration makes green have just as much mana as any other color with a sol ring by turn 2, except it's all colored. Yeah, you need Lands in order to play them, but it's fricken GREEN; most Mono-Green commanders LOOOOOOOVE more lands than normal for one reason or another.
You remove those cheap mana rocks like Sol Ring, and no other color can keep up with Green in mana production.
You haven't seen a good Azusa deck if you think Exploration is laughable......
Exploration and Carpet of Flowers are the only green mana acceleration that can really compare with sol ring, and even they are laughable in comparison. Exploration requires that you have a land heavy hand (and if you use a land heavy deck to help this, then you sacrifice having actual gas), and carpet doesn't do much against a lot of manabases, and even against mono blue, doesn't do as much early.
As it is now, blue and black can ramp better than green simply by tutoring for the broken mana rocks. So don't be too worried about green being a powerhouse.
Sol Ring I could never see banned, but I could see Mana Crypt getting the axe for being exclusive - the people with Mana Crypts are probably rocking really powerful decks anyways (That being said, please don't ban either RC, Mana Crypt needs a home).
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
It's a card I'm worried about playing against. I frequently play against a Roon deck that pretty much can't lose if it gets PoK out. The game immediately turns into a 3v1, but it's actually a 1v1v1v4 because the PoK player is basically getting an extra turn during everyone else endsteps. PoK is surprisingly easy to protect in a dedicated flicker deck and even if it does die, there are great ways to get it back from the graveyard. Molten Disaster has made it's way into my deck solely because it can kill PoK with no interference.
Prophet of Kruphix is definitely a "deal with me or die" kinda card. Problem is that some players see the bombs she enables being the problem, not her. Games end prematurely because newer players don't recognize the threat she presents.
Of course Sol Ring is broken. So is 90% of all the other stuff that gets played - that's why it's EDH and why people play the game. Sol Ring does not in any way, shape, or form need to be banned. All problems it can potentially cause are massively outweighed by the political problem of explosive opening hands immediately turning the game into archenemy. Every single possible argument that you can make regarding it has already been made a dozen or more times in the 763 pages of this thread, and have bore no fruition whatsoever because you and the others that think like you are an incredibly tiny minority that can be easily appeased by just housebanning it or finding other people that also don't like it to play with.
This is exactly what was said about Sundering Titan until it was banned. I don't think Sol Ring should be banned (yet), but you don't have any data to back up a claim like the people who want it banned are "an incredibly tiny minority that can be easily appeased by just housebanning it...".
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
I agree that Prophet is bordering on the ban-worthy edge of things... a well-timed Prophet, even if it does turn the game in to archenemy, still wins the game very quickly a lot of the time. Though it also depends just how creature-tutor heavy your deck is - chances just are that if you're in the colors, you are running a handful of creature tutors (and then there's Momir Vig...).
I have the Prophet in my Momir Vig, but sometimes consciously avoid tutoring it up because it instantly turns the game on its' head xP
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
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If we had to be consistent, then yes cololess cards like Mana Vault becomes a potential card for banning as well. The format will be better for it.
Again, cards like Bloom Tender need some work; like playing more than one color to maximize its potential. No one will run it in a mono-green deck. Ubiquitous cards like Sol Ring is colorless, no summmoning sickness, and require no work to produce more mana than it costs.
@ Xoth: You're right. This is why people can't be trusted with powerful things like guns. See the link here? People-Guns, Players-Sol Ring. I'm just not sure what you're saying with your second line. lol
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
me.. basic plains.
opponents mountain sol ring.... then island top.. then swamp sol ring, top and map... back to me... island... stony silence.... *Laugh manically*.
There are ways to deal with sol ring... most invovle killing the guy that used it. mana is mana it doesn't doing anything without you having anything to spend it on.
I am not quite sure why metalworker is banned, i understand why it could come off... I guess it is that if it is giving you a ton of mana that is because you have things to cast with it. It is slightly easier to tutor and abuse.. but not by much.
It is something that could be looked at.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I'd like to point at Prophet of Kruphix again. As one guy in my playgroup stated: "Prophet is like Jace TMS in 60-card magic. It's never the last card that gets played, nor is it the card that immediately ensures a combo win like Tooth & Nail. It is, however, the last card that gets played in a normal game before turning it into archenemy, and even then, the Prophet player usually has such an advantage, they tend to win."
Generally speaking, it just puts the Simic/Bant/Bug/Rug player in such a great position, it's very hard to come back from. This doesn't go for the guy playing it at T5, but it does go for the one who lands it at a proper time, once they used the many abilities the Simic player has to generate card advantage, so they can counter whatever the opponent tries, and advance their board state if there's no direct threat to Kruphix. Contrary to popular belief, not every deck always has immediate answers on hand, after all.
I've gone to the point of pulling the Prophet out of my Zegana deck, simply because landing it caused such a massive centralization, it was stupid. The local group's Roon player is considering the same. Whenever he sits at the table with Roon, the game ALWAYS ends up going "Play Prophet, counter your counter. Then protect it as it goes around the table, draw a truckload of cards and win." Same tends to happen with my Zegana too.
Seedborn Muse, Leyline of Anticipation and Teferi are all great cards. But, on their own, they do not allow the crazy stuff the Prophet enables. They need a second part to emulate the Prophet, giving opponents more time to react. The prophet however, is just a silly card.
We meet formally every quarter. We talk informally far more frequently.
How is this possible, and even if it is, how is it Sol Ring's fault?
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Yet another god hand situation that needs to happen in a Blue/Green deck, with at least 3 or 4 cards in the opening hand, plus 1 or 2 god topdecks. So just another really flimsy argument that has nothing to do with Sol Ring, yeah.
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And on that day, the people rejoiced for 12 moons.
Anecdotal, but I once had a Blue/Black deck where my first turn was Swamp -> Dark Ritual -> Sinkhole -> Sol Ring -> Dimir Signet.
Still lost that game.
I just stated it as an example of the crazy stuff Sol Ring does. My opening hand was 3 land, Sol Ring, Signet, Tamiyo and Cyclonic Rift. I drew another land, Doubling Season and Plasm Capture next. It wasn't an argument perhaps in favor of banning Sol Ring. It was just giving yet another example of the stupid crap that only Ring and Mana Crypt can cause. "Just kill the Sol Ring player" is a really, really stupid argument.
Guess nobody else cares about Prophet of Kruphix though?
Assuming we ban Sol Ring, what else are we banning from Green?
Green is the color of Ramp, and Sol Ring is one of the Sol (hehe) reasons other colors can (Sometimes) keep up with it. A Simple Exploration makes green have just as much mana as any other color with a sol ring by turn 2, except it's all colored. Yeah, you need Lands in order to play them, but it's fricken GREEN; most Mono-Green commanders LOOOOOOOVE more lands than normal for one reason or another.
You remove those cheap mana rocks like Sol Ring, and no other color can keep up with Green in mana production.
But Sol Ring didn't do that, Doubling Season is the card that doubled the counters on Tamiyo and you god-handed 3 of the cards you specifically needed out of 99. What you said is totally irrelevant to the power level of Sol Ring.
\\My Magic Blog//
And on that day, the people rejoiced for 12 moons.
Exploration and Carpet of Flowers are the only green mana acceleration that can really compare with sol ring, and even they are laughable in comparison. Exploration requires that you have a land heavy hand (and if you use a land heavy deck to help this, then you sacrifice having actual gas), and carpet doesn't do much against a lot of manabases, and even against mono blue, doesn't do as much early.
As it is now, blue and black can ramp better than green simply by tutoring for the broken mana rocks. So don't be too worried about green being a powerhouse.
Sol Ring I could never see banned, but I could see Mana Crypt getting the axe for being exclusive - the people with Mana Crypts are probably rocking really powerful decks anyways (That being said, please don't ban either RC, Mana Crypt needs a home).
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Mana Crypt should be the target of our current efforts, costs zero gives 2. Thats a real problem especially in concert with other mana rocks.
I always like seeing sol ring more. Easier to copy, easier to play in control decks, etc etc.
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
In 1v1 (where I think it's already banned), sure, it would probably be insurmountable, but in multiplayer? In the occasional situation where you get a hand like that (the chance of which is lessened if you don't use partial Paris mulligans, which I think is the worst default rule in the format, and which is mostly not followed in my meta), then everyone nods,and then you shuffle up and start another game. No big deal.
Heck, reprinting Gorilla Shaman would probably be a good start.
Mana crypt deserves a place in magic. It's one of the few cards that are legal (in a handful of formats only) that was never available in a booster pack. Never. How cool is that?
I think that a lot of people feel that it might be one of the best cards in the format. It's definitely strong - but even if it is one of the best, it doesn't necessarily mean that it should be banned - does it?
Also, I didn't see nearly this much avarice towards it when it was $70 last year.
I played magic back before Type II was created. Anyone could use any cards - and it was some of the most fun I've ever had playing. EDH takes me back to that time - and hopefully, I can impart the same sense of wonder and fun on newer players now as the old gang did to me back then. The crypt - to me - is a clear memory of those days (although it didn't actually come out until a little later).
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Of course Sol Ring is broken. So is 90% of all the other stuff that gets played - that's why it's EDH and why people play the game. Sol Ring does not in any way, shape, or form need to be banned. All problems it can potentially cause are massively outweighed by the political problem of explosive opening hands immediately turning the game into archenemy. Every single possible argument that you can make regarding it has already been made a dozen or more times in the 763 pages of this thread, and have bore no fruition whatsoever because you and the others that think like you are an incredibly tiny minority that can be easily appeased by just housebanning it or finding other people that also don't like it to play with.
Also, your gun analogy is terrible and you should feel terrible for making it.
T1: Tropical Island, Sol Ring, Simic Signet.
T2: Land, Doubling Season
T3: Tamiyo, the Moon Sage with 8 counters.
Happens all the time.
P.S. - This almost happened in a friend's Prime Speaker deck once, but Hull Breach is OP.
It's a card I'm worried about playing against. I frequently play against a Roon deck that pretty much can't lose if it gets PoK out. The game immediately turns into a 3v1, but it's actually a 1v1v1v4 because the PoK player is basically getting an extra turn during everyone else endsteps. PoK is surprisingly easy to protect in a dedicated flicker deck and even if it does die, there are great ways to get it back from the graveyard. Molten Disaster has made it's way into my deck solely because it can kill PoK with no interference.
I have the Prophet in my Momir Vig, but sometimes consciously avoid tutoring it up because it instantly turns the game on its' head xP