The Commanders are banned because they offer a highly unfair advantage, they warm the format, or there is nothing fun about them. Mimeo is none of those things. He's strong, sure, but he relies on a very fragile strategy which is disrupted by graveyard hate, and he is kept in check by exiling the copied creature.
I won't lie, a well-built Mimeo deck is tough if you're not prepared, but it's nowhere near banable.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
The rules committee will ban something because its unfun, but not because its unfun for one player. It has to be changing the format and enough players have to be grumbling about it.
As for The Mimeoplasm. I have always found Ghave, Riku, and Mimeoplasm to be powerful generals. Not only is Mimeoplasm in the best three colors but the general encourages goodstuff type creatures, but thats ok. Instead of ranting and calling for a ban, you can start putting stuff in your deck to help battle the t-rex armed beast.
If you need some card ideas on how to fight Mimeoplasm, I will gladly list some
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Oona, Queen of the Fae UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU GRBorborygmos EnragedRG GBGRhys the ExiledGBG URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
High price is not the only reason these cards are banned. It's a combination of price AND ubiquity AND power. Mox pearl and Mox ruby do not meet the third criteria and are iffy on the second criteria. Therefore there is not a reason for them to be banned.
Because green, blue, and black are significantly more powerful colors than red and white, arguably by quite a large margin. There are exceptions with certain commanders and combinations, of course, but trying to argue that all the colors are equal is silly.
All colors are equal dude, some are just more equal than others.
Get it?
This thread is always really funny to read, thanks for the entertainment guys.
As for the topic, I agree with him; moxens shouldn't get unbanned, even for the "lower tier" colors. If you wanna play with them, play with your friends on the kitchen table, where you don't have ban lists.
To be brutally honest here, I'm perfectly fine with the current banned list, it's given me a chance to play a fun/fair game of EDH every time i sit down at the table, though some of the cards that end up doing the most damage are often combo oriented cards, it's still much better then having to consistently deal with Prime Time in green and Griselbrand in black.
EDIT: To whoever said Staff of Domination needs to be unbanned, just no, plain and simple.
Has somebody messed you up with infinite mana or something? People are going to combo weather Staff is banned or not. I am looking at it for what it can do other than go infinite. I hope the RC does as well. Unbanning Staff would give both Red and White as well as Green some much needed card draw ability. It is completly interactive and isn't that what EDH is all about? So a few players will use it to go infinite in some un-original way. Those players are going to combo even if Staff remains banned. Unban it and give us another great utility artifact.
But seriously, I wish wizards would print a functionally same, yet less powerful creature for use in EDH. Something like searching for one land when it comes into play and attacks instead of two each time, or still two, but only when it comes into play, and maybe only basic land when it then attacks.
One card that has always kind of bothered me playing against was Sneak Attack. So good for so little mana, and its pretty darn expensive and only gets better as more creatures are printed. The Big Bad Eldrazi alone make it brutal. So much potentially repeatable value for little mana invested. What do you guys think about it? I don't think I've seen it mentioned when it comes to the ban list.
Let's unban Griselbrand as a non-commander. Sure he might draw you 35 cards to combo out and win or you might not draw it at all.
I think Enter the Infinite is going to be similar in Griselbrand in terms of abuse except harder to cheat out. EDIT: However, the card basically says win now.
One card that has always kind of bothered me playing against was Sneak Attack. So good for so little mana, and its pretty darn expensive and only gets better as more creatures are printed. The Big Bad Eldrazi alone make it brutal. So much potentially repeatable value for little mana invested. What do you guys think about it? I don't think I've seen it mentioned when it comes to the ban list.
It is very good, but since you dont cast the card and you have to exile the creature, the card is fair. No need to ban it
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
The Mimeoplasm should be banned for being... What? Powerful? Unique? Fun?
There are a lot of legendaries out there that are way stronger than the Mimeoplasm, and even in magical dream land it is a pretty distant contender for being banned in my opinion. There are so many fun ways to build around a creature like that, it would be a huge blow to the format to ban something like the Mimeoplasm, which, coincidentally, is one of only a few legends in that wedge to begin with.
Let's be serious when we bring suggestions to the table, that way this thread can be taken seri....
...Sorry, I don't know what I was thinking with that last part.
Has somebody messed you up with infinite mana or something? People are going to combo weather Staff is banned or not. I am looking at it for what it can do other than go infinite. I hope the RC does as well. Unbanning Staff would give both Red and White as well as Green some much needed card draw ability. It is completly interactive and isn't that what EDH is all about? So a few players will use it to go infinite in some un-original way. Those players are going to combo even if Staff remains banned. Unban it and give us another great utility artifact.
I'm currently in class, so I'm not going to explain it myself. Instead, I'm going to ask you to look back at the many arguments against it's unbanning.
"People will go infinite anyway" is not a good argument for unbanning it.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
It also works extremely well with Sedris and other reanimator decks.
Griselbrand in a well-tuned commander deck is usually turns 3-5 where he comes out and win so its comparable to a non-commander well-tuned reanimator deck. However, most people abuse it as a commander.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
What does it do that dozens of unbanned cards don't?
Creates the infinite mana as well as is the win con to use that mana. So just one less card in the combo where as other infinite mana combos take a 3rd card to abuse.
Creates the infinite mana as well as is the win con to use that mana. So just one less card in the combo where as other infinite mana combos take a 3rd card to abuse.
Staff does not have a win condition. Evn if I concede that draw is a win con so what? Infinte mana wins the game 100 different ways, if people are going to combo they will. Why cant we have a good card that people will use for a good tool? There are DOZENS of two card combos that win you the game, this is just destroying a great card to stop one of them. It is a terrible reason.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Staff does not have a win condition. Evn if I concede that draw is a win con so what? Infinte mana wins the game 100 different ways, if people are going to combo they will. Why cant we have a good card that people will use for a good tool? There are DOZENS of two card combos that win you the game, this is just destroying a great card to stop one of them. It is a terrible reason.
Just remember that of the dozens of other combinations that exist, some limitations are present due to colour constraints. The ban hammer has to be very diligent when artifacts (which can be used in any deck) are the source of the shenanigans. Cheap artifact mana is already an issue as viewed here (see: sol ring). With it powering out quicker staff wins, I suppose you do run into the question, "ban the enabler or the abused?". Alas, we can't ban all the artifact mana, and I'm rambling, so no staff.
Staff is one of those cards that ends up being degenerate whether you want it to or not.
The problem is its both an engine and an outlet. It not only combos to go infinite, but then it draws your deck as well.
Staff's combination of effects is simply too much. Even attempts to use it fairly can often result in "Oops, I win moments". Beyond that, in situations where it's going to be used fairly, there are likely better alternatives. So not only is it degenerate, it's occasionally degenerate without trying to be and not worth using where not degenerate. Pretty clear why it's on the banlist and should remain.
Just remember that of the dozens of other combinations that exist, some limitations are present due to colour constraints. The ban hammer has to be very diligent when artifacts (which can be used in any deck) are the source of the shenanigans. Cheap artifact mana is already an issue as viewed here (see: sol ring). With it powering out quicker staff wins, I suppose you do run into the question, "ban the enabler or the abused?". Alas, we can't ban all the artifact mana, and I'm rambling, so no staff.
TLDR - no staff.
Give me infinte mana and Oona Queen of the Fae as my Commander. I don't care what you do, you're going to lose unless you have some split second type thing in your hand, and even then I'm not sure you wouldn't still lose. Cheap artifact mana isn't the reason Staff is banned, I have a feeling that Metalworker had something to do with it. Leave Metalworker banned, but give us the Staff back.
Staff is one of those cards that ends up being degenerate whether you want it to or not.
The problem is its both an engine and an outlet. It not only combos to go infinite, but then it draws your deck as well.
Staff's combination of effects is simply too much. Even attempts to use it fairly can often result in "Oops, I win moments". Beyond that, in situations where it's going to be used fairly, there are likely better alternatives. So not only is it degenerate, it's occasionally degenerate without trying to be and not worth using where not degenerate. Pretty clear why it's on the banlist and should remain.
You don't accidently break a card like Staff. You know what you're doing when you generate infinite mana.
Staff is one of those cards that ends up being degenerate whether you want it to or not.
The problem is its both an engine and an outlet. It not only combos to go infinite, but then it draws your deck as well.
Staff's combination of effects is simply too much. Even attempts to use it fairly can often result in "Oops, I win moments". Beyond that, in situations where it's going to be used fairly, there are likely better alternatives. So not only is it degenerate, it's occasionally degenerate without trying to be and not worth using where not degenerate. Pretty clear why it's on the banlist and should remain.
No one goes "oops I win" with staff. There are not bunches of cards that make 6+ mana that you accidentally put in with staff. Its a toolbox card that can be abused. Hmm sound like any Druid we know?
Just remember that of the dozens of other combinations that exist, some limitations are present due to colour constraints. The ban hammer has to be very diligent when artifacts (which can be used in any deck) are the source of the shenanigans. Cheap artifact mana is already an issue as viewed here (see: sol ring). With it powering out quicker staff wins, I suppose you do run into the question, "ban the enabler or the abused?". Alas, we can't ban all the artifact mana, and I'm rambling, so no staff.
TLDR - no staff.
I can win without infinte mana in mono-green with any ONE of three different cards. Are they banned? Nope because they do not HAVE to be played that way.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
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The Commanders are banned because they offer a highly unfair advantage, they warm the format, or there is nothing fun about them. Mimeo is none of those things. He's strong, sure, but he relies on a very fragile strategy which is disrupted by graveyard hate, and he is kept in check by exiling the copied creature.
I won't lie, a well-built Mimeo deck is tough if you're not prepared, but it's nowhere near banable.
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BEST TYPO EVER. That General is making my Mnt Dew warm, BANNED!
As for The Mimeoplasm. I have always found Ghave, Riku, and Mimeoplasm to be powerful generals. Not only is Mimeoplasm in the best three colors but the general encourages goodstuff type creatures, but thats ok. Instead of ranting and calling for a ban, you can start putting stuff in your deck to help battle the t-rex armed beast.
If you need some card ideas on how to fight Mimeoplasm, I will gladly list some
UGMomir Vig, Simic VisionaryGU
GRBorborygmos EnragedRG
GBGRhys the ExiledGBG
URG Intet, the Dreamer GRU
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All colors are equal dude, some are just more equal than others.
Get it?
This thread is always really funny to read, thanks for the entertainment guys.
As for the topic, I agree with him; moxens shouldn't get unbanned, even for the "lower tier" colors. If you wanna play with them, play with your friends on the kitchen table, where you don't have ban lists.
EDIT: To whoever said Staff of Domination needs to be unbanned, just no, plain and simple.
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Has somebody messed you up with infinite mana or something? People are going to combo weather Staff is banned or not. I am looking at it for what it can do other than go infinite. I hope the RC does as well. Unbanning Staff would give both Red and White as well as Green some much needed card draw ability. It is completly interactive and isn't that what EDH is all about? So a few players will use it to go infinite in some un-original way. Those players are going to combo even if Staff remains banned. Unban it and give us another great utility artifact.
But seriously, I wish wizards would print a functionally same, yet less powerful creature for use in EDH. Something like searching for one land when it comes into play and attacks instead of two each time, or still two, but only when it comes into play, and maybe only basic land when it then attacks.
One card that has always kind of bothered me playing against was Sneak Attack. So good for so little mana, and its pretty darn expensive and only gets better as more creatures are printed. The Big Bad Eldrazi alone make it brutal. So much potentially repeatable value for little mana invested. What do you guys think about it? I don't think I've seen it mentioned when it comes to the ban list.
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
WBVish Kal, Blood ArbiterWB
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
UBGVorosh, the HunterUBG
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WBGTeneb, The HarvesterWBG
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I think Enter the Infinite is going to be similar in Griselbrand in terms of abuse except harder to cheat out. EDIT: However, the card basically says win now.
It is very good, but since you dont cast the card and you have to exile the creature, the card is fair. No need to ban it
There are a lot of legendaries out there that are way stronger than the Mimeoplasm, and even in magical dream land it is a pretty distant contender for being banned in my opinion. There are so many fun ways to build around a creature like that, it would be a huge blow to the format to ban something like the Mimeoplasm, which, coincidentally, is one of only a few legends in that wedge to begin with.
Let's be serious when we bring suggestions to the table, that way this thread can be taken seri....
...Sorry, I don't know what I was thinking with that last part.
Griselbrand is probably worse in a tuned reanimator deck where you can drop him turn 2-3 with some consistency than as an actual commander
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I'm currently in class, so I'm not going to explain it myself. Instead, I'm going to ask you to look back at the many arguments against it's unbanning.
"People will go infinite anyway" is not a good argument for unbanning it.
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It is if infinite mana is the reason it is banned. Other cards do it better, and a colorless toolkit would be awesome with Staff.
Sneak Attack or its one time variants Through the Breach/Cauldron dance puts the creature in the graveyard.
It also works extremely well with Sedris and other reanimator decks.
Griselbrand in a well-tuned commander deck is usually turns 3-5 where he comes out and win so its comparable to a non-commander well-tuned reanimator deck. However, most people abuse it as a commander.
Creates the infinite mana as well as is the win con to use that mana. So just one less card in the combo where as other infinite mana combos take a 3rd card to abuse.
Staff does not have a win condition. Evn if I concede that draw is a win con so what? Infinte mana wins the game 100 different ways, if people are going to combo they will. Why cant we have a good card that people will use for a good tool? There are DOZENS of two card combos that win you the game, this is just destroying a great card to stop one of them. It is a terrible reason.
Just remember that of the dozens of other combinations that exist, some limitations are present due to colour constraints. The ban hammer has to be very diligent when artifacts (which can be used in any deck) are the source of the shenanigans. Cheap artifact mana is already an issue as viewed here (see: sol ring). With it powering out quicker staff wins, I suppose you do run into the question, "ban the enabler or the abused?". Alas, we can't ban all the artifact mana, and I'm rambling, so no staff.
TLDR - no staff.
The problem is its both an engine and an outlet. It not only combos to go infinite, but then it draws your deck as well.
Staff's combination of effects is simply too much. Even attempts to use it fairly can often result in "Oops, I win moments". Beyond that, in situations where it's going to be used fairly, there are likely better alternatives. So not only is it degenerate, it's occasionally degenerate without trying to be and not worth using where not degenerate. Pretty clear why it's on the banlist and should remain.
Give me infinte mana and Oona Queen of the Fae as my Commander. I don't care what you do, you're going to lose unless you have some split second type thing in your hand, and even then I'm not sure you wouldn't still lose. Cheap artifact mana isn't the reason Staff is banned, I have a feeling that Metalworker had something to do with it. Leave Metalworker banned, but give us the Staff back.
You don't accidently break a card like Staff. You know what you're doing when you generate infinite mana.
No one goes "oops I win" with staff. There are not bunches of cards that make 6+ mana that you accidentally put in with staff. Its a toolbox card that can be abused. Hmm sound like any Druid we know?
I can win without infinte mana in mono-green with any ONE of three different cards. Are they banned? Nope because they do not HAVE to be played that way.