[EDH] Lin Sivvi - Final Tweaks

  • #1
    [EDIT: I occasionally return to this first post and make updates as cards are released, banned/unbanned etc. Hopefully, the list below is the most current version available. I've kept the rest of the post for context.]

    I've had some help sorting out this list at the dedicated EDH forum, but I'd like to share the list with MTGS and get some tips on final tweaks. Right now, the only card I'd like to fit in is Martial Coup - preferably as wrath#6 rather than just replacing one of the other wrath effects. But what to take out? The easy way would be to just "upgrade" Kirtar's Wrath, but I'm not entirely sure it's really that much better. Both are excellent sweepers and I'd like to fit them both if possible. Anyway, here's the list:

    urdjur's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    CREATURES (23)
    //1cc (2)
    1 Children of Korlis
    1 Weathered Wayfarer

    1 Whipcorder

    1 Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
    1 Outrider en-Kor
    1 Task Force
    1 Defiant Vanguard
    1 Mirror Entity
    1 Zealot il-Vec
    1 Stonecloaker

    1 Cho-Manno, Revolutionary
    1 Academy Rector
    1 Solemn Simulacrum

    1 Changeling Hero
    1 Archon of Justice
    1 Reveillark
    1 Karmic Guide
    1 Stuffy Doll
    1 Stonehewer Giant

    1 Felidar Sovereign
    1 Twilight Shepherd
    1 Yosei, the Morning Star
    1 Duplicant

    1 Eternal Dragon

    OTHER NON-LAND PERMANENTS (26)
    //0cc (1)
    1 Mana Crypt

    1 Phyrexian Furnace
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Land Tax
    1 Skullclamp

    1 Scroll Rack
    1 Lightning Greaves
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    1 Bound in Silence
    1 Pariah
    1 Animal Boneyard
    1 Guilty Conscience
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Extraplanar Lens
    1 Quietus Spike
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Sword of Light and Shadow

    1 Test of Endurance
    1 Phyrexian Processor
    1 Faith's Fetters
    1 Thran Dynamo
    1 Endless Horizons

    1 Mind's Eye
    1 Pariah's Shield
    1 Gauntlet of Power

    NON-PERMANENTS (14)
    //1cc (4)
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Steelshaper's Gift
    1 Condemn
    1 Tithe

    1 Martial Coup

    1 Idyllic Tutor

    1 Day of Judgement
    1 Wrath of God

    1 Hallowed Burial
    1 Rout
    1 Three Dreams

    1 Austere Command
    1 Kirtar's Wrath

    1 Storm Herd

    LANDS (36)
    25 Snow-Covered Plains
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Windswept Heath
    1 Mistveil Plains
    1 Flagstones of Trokair
    1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
    1 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Dust Bowl
    1 Miren, the Moaning Well
    1 Kor Haven
    1 Ancient Tomb



    Note: This list assumes you're using a SB to tweak the deck for multiplayer, single-player and various opponents. If not, you may need to MD some of the SB cards to fit your play group.

    And a link to a complete run down of card choices, in case you're interested:
    http://edh.truespace.ca/EDH_Forum/viewtopic.php?t=1047
    Last edited by urdjur: 10/26/2009 12:15:40 PM


    A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe!
    "At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."

    [Click here for the articles!]
  • #2
    For the benefit of the others trying to help you with your deck and for yourself so that people are more likely to help you with your deck, please try to put your deck in the deck tags (lots of examples in this forum). The tags are on the button in the upper right-ish on the text box

    One comment that I will make from a preliminary look is that you could use a few more creatures. Also, I think push-comes-to-shove I'd put in Martial Coup over Kirtar's Wrath. Also Abeyance is not really good in EDH because the games go pretty long, even in single player typically. The Goblin Charbelcher seems VERY out of place here too.
    EDH Decks:

    UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide)
    B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage)
    BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn)
    WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God)
    W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
  • #3
    Thanks for the tip - list is now "decked".

    Lack of creatures: I have not found this to be a problem. The only creatures that are actually important win cons are Mirror Entity and Zealot il-Vec (with equipment). All others are pure utility, but some (like Shepherd and Dragon) happen to be fat beat sticks too in a pinch. Too many creatures is also bad with lots of wrath effects - all the current ones recur (through sivvi or on their own), persist, reanimate others or some such, or have good leave play abilities for use with sweepers or sacrificial outs.

    Kirtar's vs. Coup: Agreed. The greedy bastard in me wants to run both though.

    Abeyance: This is my only out to some forms of combo. Many rely on recurring a creature/art/ench though, which means I can also use instant speed RFG effects. It also replaces itself for no card disadvantage. I could see cutting it though, since the single copy is a bit random.

    Goblin Charbelcher: Combo with Endless Horizons with potential to kill 1 player/turn (I run few non-plains). Also highly synergistic with the other landthinning effects I run, as well as library manipulation, mixing etc. At worst, this is an undercosted Alladin's Ring with some library manipulation thrown in. It gives the deck some added reach and a kill mechanism (besides Test of Endurance) to win without attacking with creatures.

    Right now I'm thinking:
    -Abeyance
    +Military Coup

    I'll go sleep on it Smile Also noticed my list is missing Tithe which I run as an extra Mistveil Plains tutor - will fix. Keep the suggestions coming!


    A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe!
    "At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."

    [Click here for the articles!]
  • #4
    Ok, now that I can better read the deck I have a few more suggestions for you. Here are the cards I would remove

    -1 Goblin Charbelcher
    Its not good enough, too much mana and too many variables in EDH for this to be worth a slot
    -1 Abeyance
    There are much better answers to combo than this which can be used only once
    -1 Animal Boneyard
    Unless you've a big, big reason to put things in the 'yard this is not necessary

    -1 Argivian Find +1 Mine Excavation
    In a game like EDH paying one more mana is largely irrelevant, but the potential advantage of adding getting 2 enchantments back is relevant

    As far as what to add that gives you spots for a few other things, another board sweep perhaps since I think that you were looking for one. Soltari Emissary is pretty good. True Believer would be alright for you too if combo is that prevalent for you
    EDH Decks:

    UWMerfolk (Sygg, River Guide)
    B Vampires (Anowon the Ruin Sage)
    BRU Zombies! (Lord of Tresserhorn)
    WUBRG Allies (Karona, False God)
    W Soldiers (Darien, King of Kjeldor)
  • #5
    Thanks for the input. I agree to cutting Abeyance. Goblin Charbelcher is an excellent card in the deck not only for direct damage but also library manipulation - I wouldn't take it out.

    Animal Boneyard: This is an important card for infinite life combo. Sivvi fetches the other two pieces (Task Force + Outrider). There is also Miren, but just Miren (and Wayfarer to get it) is too inconsistent. Boneyard is a target for 4 tutors (enlightened, rector, dreams, idyllic) which increases the chances for combo immensly. With Condemn, that's 8 combo sources, meaning I will most likely get infinite life any game when it's important to do so. It also provide a sacrifial out for other purposes, but that's just gravy.

    Argivian Find vs. Mine Excavation: I tried Excavation in early versions of this deck, but never got an opportunity to make good use of conspire. I also tried the various Monk Idealist bears. It turns out that the most important thing in actual game play is the instant speed, since the deck sits with mana open A LOT, fetching stuff EOT with Sivvi and all. Hence, Argivian Find.

    I'll update the list in the first post. I've also tweaked the mana base slightly to make use of a cool Wayfarer combo with Dust Bowl + Flagstones + Mistveil Plains. Not only does saccing flagstones to bowl tutor for mistveil in the first place - as long as wayfarer stays on the board, you can recur flagstones with it and mistveil to keep extracting plains while gaining double card advantage on each activation, destroying non basics. It's pretty mana intensive to keep it up, but should prove occasionally useful.
    Last edited by urdjur: 4/18/2009 1:30:19 AM


    A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe!
    "At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."

    [Click here for the articles!]
  • #6
    Quote from urdjur


    Animal Boneyard: This is an important card for infinite life combo. Sivvi fetches the other two pieces (Task Force + Outrider). There is also Miren, but just Miren (and Wayfarer to get it) is too inconsistent. Boneyard is a target for 4 tutors (enlightened, rector, dreams, idyllic) which increases the chances for combo immensly. With Condemn, that's 8 combo sources, meaning I will most likely get infinite life any game when it's important to do so. It also provide a sacrifial out for other purposes, but that's just gravy.



    How is that infinite life? You have to deal damage to the outrider infinitely. Granted you might be able to get a bunch of life in one shot but its certainly not "infinite". And while I think that's a cool combo it is very important to remember that no matter your life total..you lose if you take 21 general damage, so I would definitely suggest getting a defense for that (other than pariah/outrider/taskforce). I also have to agree that I would go with more creatures as often you aren't the only person playing mass destruction and Rebels is still usually a mass creature deck. Though I do like the overall build.
  • #7
    Quote from TheXile
    How is that infinite life? You have to deal damage to the outrider infinitely. Granted you might be able to get a bunch of life in one shot but its certainly not "infinite". And while I think that's a cool combo it is very important to remember that no matter your life total..you lose if you take 21 general damage, so I would definitely suggest getting a defense for that (other than pariah/outrider/taskforce). I also have to agree that I would go with more creatures as often you aren't the only person playing mass destruction and Rebels is still usually a mass creature deck. Though I do like the overall build.


    Outrider en-Kor
    Notice it says the next damage, meaning you can use it as many times as you want without actually having any damage dealt. Its the same as regeneration shields. It does indeed go infinite. It is the same principle that was used as the basis for the life deck in legacy a few years back.

    I like this deck btw. The only thing I would do differently is add more rebels that search other rebels. I would also be more reluctant to let Lin-Sivvi get removed. I would rather she go back into the deck and searched out with another rebel if at all possible. I had actually thought about trying to use a G/W general so that I could use gaea's cradle and some other things. With all the creature tutor effects, it would be very easy to get Sivvi online anyway.
  • #8
    DarkDeal: My first EDH deck was actually a Captain Sisay list revolving around fetching Sivvi into Skyshroud Poacher + utility rebels, elves and legendary stuff. Gaea's Cradle wasn't all that in it, but Rofellos was a dependable mana source. As it developed though, I found myself cutting more and more elves and legendary jank until it was basically rebels with "good green and white cards". So I decided to go for Sivvi instead - get her into play sooner. In retrospect, I think it's easier to get good card synergy in a mono white list.

    Btw, the main way to protect Sivvi is through Changeling Hero. You can do it EOT before you sweep, in response to another sweeper or spot removal. Won't always work though, which is partly why Defiant Vanguard is there:

    Vanguard is typically an early fetch, in response to someone attacking you. You kill their main threat and vanguard goes to the yard. IF something bad happens to Sivvi (gets shuffled in), you have several ways to get vanguard back into play (SoLaS, lark, guide) without Sivvi and can then search her out. There are only 10 rebels to search for in the deck, so you don't need to have Sivvi in play a lot. If she gets too expensive to cast, you can simply ignore her.

    TheExile: As for attacking generals, you're quite right that Pariah combo (Cho-Manno or Stuffy Doll + Pariah or Pariah's Shield) is an important defense. There is also Bound in Silence which has the benefit of not targeting, and recurring if destroyed. Any black or red general will also be superbly hosed by Light/Lawbringer. Finally, there is Kor Haven which can be searched out with Wayfarer. The 6 sweepers do a pretty good job of suppressing (attacking) generals too.

    Having LOTS of creatures is not relevant for the deck. You won't get to use Sivvi long enough to amass an army of weenies - it's an inefficient way to use her fetches. Only one of your wincons (Mirror Entity) uses a creature rush strategy, and even then we're usually not talking about more than 4-5 creatures (though these could easily be 8/8+ by turn 5) - and any of your utility creatures qualify for that strategy, even stuff like wayfarer or stuffy doll. Fat like Akroma etc. is a waste of deck space for this deck.
    Last edited by urdjur: 4/20/2009 11:33:44 AM


    A series of seven articles using Magic to explore the very stuff of the Universe!
    "At least for those who can play cards, their present incarnation is not quite wasted."

    [Click here for the articles!]
  • #9
    hi!
    i'm interesting on this deck.
    the post is a bit outdate and i'm interesting to restart the discussion on this deck.
    what new card can be insert?
    i have think about Norn's Annex and the new Phyrexian Rebirth as alternative mass removal?
    any other suggestion?
    and the 2 new sword? soff and sowp?
    or some change to make on the deck in relation to the most used deck?
    Last edited by gasp10: 5/6/2011 9:23:10 AM
  • #10
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