The one playing hunger says the other ulamog is unfair because the anihilation 4 and the the gyre player says it is actually weaker than the hunger ulamog
Annihilator is an extremely powerful mechanic that can really shut a person out of a game, especially as hits ramp up. Since you're likely to hit where the most damage is done, it can very quickly eat into a player's manabase, which can really cripple someone and put them out of the game essentially. I've built an Eldrazi deck, and had to make the choice between cutting Annihilator, cutting haste effects, or trimming down both, just because of how unfun it is.
That said, my vote actually goes to Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. Both versions are extremely strong, and will be 'stronger' depending on what you are trying to accomplish, but my thoughts go like this:
Ceaseless Hunger has a considerably more powerful 'on cast' ability, giving much better immediate value. It hits two targets (essentially 5 mana per 'removal', which is pretty good effectiveness in colorless), instead of one, and also exiles instead of destroys. One of the main reasons to run Ulamog is for a colorless removal option tied to a big beater, so better removal is strongly welcome.
Ceaseless Hunger costs 1 less. The difference between 10 and 11 mana may actually not be that big of an issue when you plan to ramp up there anyways, but 1 extra mana is still an advantage.
In terms of game ending threats, Inifinite Gyre's Annihilator is considerably more powerful of an ability since it impacts the board, so even if removed the value gained is good, while decks that run Ceaseless Hunger may not have ways to follow up on the mill should he get removed. However, exiling 20 cards is still a potent game closer, often taking only 3ish attacks to really end someone's game, despite any presence of chump blockers. Certain decks may have a considerably easier time dealing with Inifinite Gyre's Annihilator, and can just chump him for days (token decks). As such, Ceaseless Hunger's game closeout potential is still quite strong as well.
Very niche, but there are some fun things you can do with Ceaseless Hunger's exiled cards, such as Oblivion Sower.
In terms of 'fun', Ceaseless hunger generally offers more potential, and Infinite Gyre is considerably more detrimental to others' play experience.
Combined with Haste, however, Infinite Gyre can be a much bigger surprise board-state wrecking tool, upping destruction to 5 permanents (cast+annihilator) for only 11 mana, barely more than 2 mana per destruction. If this is following a wrath effect, or some other situation where you catch someone with their pants down, even this one hit can be backbreaking. Ceaseless Hunger doesn't have quite that same impact on a hasted attack.
If I were building a deck, I would probably usually end up including Ceaseless Hunger before Infinite Gyre in most circumstances.
Depends, I don't see them as being for the same situation. OG is for general use, when you have to swing a couple times to whittle away at an overwhelming board of just a pile of stuff that all has to go. Ceaseless Hunger is for when there are just a couple key things to screw. it's like Karn liberated vs Big Ugin. Karn is the better answer if the question is Steel Hellkite, ugin is better if the question is 100 Beast tokens
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I personally always prefer the infinite gyro and rarely stick the new one in decks. This is mainly due to the reshuffle effect and since the new one can be taken via reanimation from the opponents.
The new one is absolutely playable in just about any deck capable of making the mana. Hard to counter exile 2x is valuable, even if he doesn't hit the table or attack before being exiled/bounced/elked/etc.
But being honest, both are liabilities if opponents tend to play any sort of treachery/gilded drake/bribery effects. Because of this I rarely run even gyro any more.
Semi-off topic, I also prefer gyro over the old kozilek because I value the indestructible effect over draw-4. Blanking specific removal is nice on something that mana-intensive to resolve.
I vote for Infinite Gyre. They are both really useful removal spells stapled onto threats, but Ceaseless Hunger is more frontloaded on the "removal" part and Infinite Gyre creates card advantage when he swings in. A lot of my decks have a bunch of graveyard based card advantage engines, so shuffling it all in at the wrong time can be a really bad thing, and Ceaseless Hunger can be easily reanimated, but I have to say he's not that impressive of a reanimation target. In other decks, the shuffle-in serves as a long game advantage and mill protection. I don't see much reason to run Ceaseless unless you're running both, in like Animar or something.
Mill requires several attacks to be meaningful in most games - usually 3 attacks before it really matters, against a single opponent. And 10 is a lot to pay for the double exile.
Ultimately I think they fulfill different roles, but gyre gets my vote for just doing what you want your eldrazi to do. One attack will often set someone back pretty far, and a second may well cripple them irrevocably. Every attack matters and can be a big deal. Not so much with ceaseless hunger.
The shuffle in is the cherry on top. Sure, it makes it a bit harder to cheat into play...but not THAT much harder, and it makes you nearly immune to an entire strategy. I've considered running one of the titans in control decks just for the shuffle in (though nexus typically takes that slot now).
it seems tough at first to make a choice, but i think the gyre wins out.
sure, he'll destroy a permanent instead of exiling 2 so in that regard the ceaseless hunger edges him out. what really does it for me though is the annihilator 4. exiling 20 cards on attack is nice sometimes, other times it doesn't neuter the person you're attacking enough because you might not exile the pieces they need to win. the annihilator 4 though? that can do some serious damage to someone. i've had more than one game where someone resolves gyre, hits the most problematic permanent on my board, then swings in (by giving him haste) and completely cripples me. conversely i've had ceaseless hunger exile 2 problematic permanents on my board, swing in exile 20 cards from my deck... and then i combo off. people like to think mill/exiling library is effective and stopping people's gameplans but unless you're hitting everything they need to win you're not really doing anything - and it takes far too many attacks to actually cripple someone through the exiles.
there's also the last clause about shuffling back in. that goes a long way to completely crippling mill strategies, or lets me recycle my entire deck. that in itself is incredibly strong.
They are both extremely powerful. Gyre gets rid of things on the board upon entering and then forces defending player to sacrifice things ever time it attacks. That is good, but Hunger does exile 20 cards form the library when it attacks. It comes down to what is worse to lose, your answers or your board state?
The ulamog that has more power is dependent on which part of the game you are in. If i am making 4+ tokens a round, i would make rather be dealing with Gyre. But if I am running on big dragons, and can still win, i rather go against Hunger. (Of course, i rather deal with neither.)
As a removal spell, Ceaseless Hunger is the clear winner; hits two targets instead of one, for one less mana, and exiles instead of destroys them.
As a permanent, Infinite Gyre is the winner, though the race is closer than comparing them as a removal spell; a single attack by either is usually not a game-ending threat, but letting either live for very long can end up a serious issue. Gyre becomes a problem much more quickly than Ceaseless Hunger, though.
As a card in the library, Ceaseless Hunger does absolutely nothing while Infinite Gyre can protect you from mill and can be involved in some combos (for example, Syr Konrad, the Grim+Basalt Monolith+Mesmeric Orb).
The table is never going to let either Ulamog live to see an attack step so I prefer Ceaseless Hunger entirely for its cast trigger. I hate Eldrazi and people that run them so I don't have much experience with either though.
Hunger is better on cast, as mentioned above. Two exile targets vs. one destroy.
Yet, Gyre protects you from mill just by sitting in your deck.
Both are dangerous once they're out and allowed to swing. The difference is speed and consistency. Hunger exiles a lot of stuff but that effect works both ways. Yes, he can hit combo pieces and the like. But he also can just end up thinning an opponent's deck, making them run into much needed cards faster. Plus, to fully exile someone's deck, you're going to need like 3-5 attacks. Gyre, on the other hand, effects the opponent's board state. He immediately forces them to make painful decisions on what to get rid of which is compounded by the fact that they still need to chump him, which will usually mean another thing is dying. One attack is usually devastating to most opponents. Two usually kills any momentum they've built to that point. Three will lock them out of the game usually. Heck, depending on the situation, Gyre can ruin a board state in just one attack.
Honestly, I think Gyre is better. He gets rid of something on cast, he easily pressures opponents on the field and he protects your cards while in the deck.
In my playgroup one player plays in several decks Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, lately other player played Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and a discussion was issued about powerlevel.
The one playing hunger says the other ulamog is unfair because the anihilation 4 and the the gyre player says it is actually weaker than the hunger ulamog
What are your thoughts about it?
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That said, my vote actually goes to Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. Both versions are extremely strong, and will be 'stronger' depending on what you are trying to accomplish, but my thoughts go like this:
If I were building a deck, I would probably usually end up including Ceaseless Hunger before Infinite Gyre in most circumstances.
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The new one is absolutely playable in just about any deck capable of making the mana. Hard to counter exile 2x is valuable, even if he doesn't hit the table or attack before being exiled/bounced/elked/etc.
But being honest, both are liabilities if opponents tend to play any sort of treachery/gilded drake/bribery effects. Because of this I rarely run even gyro any more.
Semi-off topic, I also prefer gyro over the old kozilek because I value the indestructible effect over draw-4. Blanking specific removal is nice on something that mana-intensive to resolve.
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Ultimately I think they fulfill different roles, but gyre gets my vote for just doing what you want your eldrazi to do. One attack will often set someone back pretty far, and a second may well cripple them irrevocably. Every attack matters and can be a big deal. Not so much with ceaseless hunger.
The shuffle in is the cherry on top. Sure, it makes it a bit harder to cheat into play...but not THAT much harder, and it makes you nearly immune to an entire strategy. I've considered running one of the titans in control decks just for the shuffle in (though nexus typically takes that slot now).
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sure, he'll destroy a permanent instead of exiling 2 so in that regard the ceaseless hunger edges him out. what really does it for me though is the annihilator 4. exiling 20 cards on attack is nice sometimes, other times it doesn't neuter the person you're attacking enough because you might not exile the pieces they need to win. the annihilator 4 though? that can do some serious damage to someone. i've had more than one game where someone resolves gyre, hits the most problematic permanent on my board, then swings in (by giving him haste) and completely cripples me. conversely i've had ceaseless hunger exile 2 problematic permanents on my board, swing in exile 20 cards from my deck... and then i combo off. people like to think mill/exiling library is effective and stopping people's gameplans but unless you're hitting everything they need to win you're not really doing anything - and it takes far too many attacks to actually cripple someone through the exiles.
there's also the last clause about shuffling back in. that goes a long way to completely crippling mill strategies, or lets me recycle my entire deck. that in itself is incredibly strong.
The ulamog that has more power is dependent on which part of the game you are in. If i am making 4+ tokens a round, i would make rather be dealing with Gyre. But if I am running on big dragons, and can still win, i rather go against Hunger. (Of course, i rather deal with neither.)
As a permanent, Infinite Gyre is the winner, though the race is closer than comparing them as a removal spell; a single attack by either is usually not a game-ending threat, but letting either live for very long can end up a serious issue. Gyre becomes a problem much more quickly than Ceaseless Hunger, though.
As a card in the library, Ceaseless Hunger does absolutely nothing while Infinite Gyre can protect you from mill and can be involved in some combos (for example, Syr Konrad, the Grim+Basalt Monolith+Mesmeric Orb).
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Yet, Gyre protects you from mill just by sitting in your deck.
Both are dangerous once they're out and allowed to swing. The difference is speed and consistency. Hunger exiles a lot of stuff but that effect works both ways. Yes, he can hit combo pieces and the like. But he also can just end up thinning an opponent's deck, making them run into much needed cards faster. Plus, to fully exile someone's deck, you're going to need like 3-5 attacks. Gyre, on the other hand, effects the opponent's board state. He immediately forces them to make painful decisions on what to get rid of which is compounded by the fact that they still need to chump him, which will usually mean another thing is dying. One attack is usually devastating to most opponents. Two usually kills any momentum they've built to that point. Three will lock them out of the game usually. Heck, depending on the situation, Gyre can ruin a board state in just one attack.
Honestly, I think Gyre is better. He gets rid of something on cast, he easily pressures opponents on the field and he protects your cards while in the deck.
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