All jokes aside, I do hope it comes back. Although its rough to interact with, its always fun to see a supported theme that is otherwise trash (dragons, cats, vampires etc etc). What are your thoughts on Emminence?
I think it has to be much weaker, if only by adding a mana cost. Rhythm of the Wild's nontoken riot ability for two (maybe three) mana each time? That seems better. No saccing permanents, no paying life, no chewing through resources we all should have (RFG from GY as an additional cost, for example). It should be a small benefit (think the Amonkhet monuments) for a cost. Maybe a restricted extort (not all spells but...sorceries?).
They could make abilities that can be used by you and your opponents.
Or a type of interaction that reads: "when the situation X happens, you gain the Y benefit unless one of your opponents does Z to prevent it".
Or an eminence that puts a certain rule on the game and you build around it.
Could be fun but there's a risk on abilities like this. They'll have to be extremely careful.
I would be okay with i, but maybe not all tribal effects. Don't get me wrong, I love My dragon deck and the ur-dragon was my prayers being answered, but that is just it, he was my dragon and that is my tribal.
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic kind of had eminence. Why not something like that? (And why not errata oloro to read "Eminence- blah blah blah, gain two life.
I loved it, it made vampires a valid tribe (perhaps too strong for 1v1), Dragons were finally playable, etc.
It's a good way of supporting decks that are otherwise lower-tier.
The problem I have with eminence isn't that it is "rough to interact with". It is that there isn't really a way to interact with it. It is the same problem oloro, derevi, and yuriko have and It is just dumb imo.
I don't understand why Wizards thought it was a good idea to print cards for a specific format where the mechanics of the card are meant to circumvent a huge part of the format and basically cheat.
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well, it's not all that bad. I think it's nice that WotC is trying to push the format. It's better than the alternative, where the decks feature toned down and uninteresting things. Imagine if instead, they made a 4-deck set with:
deck 1 - sea monsters and phasing with a vengeance
deck 2 - mono white knights featuring flanking
deck 3 - mono red prison featuring moon effects on artefacts, enchantments, and on an instant
deck 4 - mono brown deck featuring snow wastes.
or:
deck 1 - alternate wincon tribal
deck 2 - viking theme with a new mechanic that breaks snow-mechanics in vintage and legacy
deck 3 - a lifegain deck that features congregate but always can be cast from the command zone, ala in oathbreaker
deck 4 - a lands deck where there's a mechanic that allows a land to go to the command zone instead of getting nuked, and features the new land, command lotus (adds 3 of your commander's colours to your mana pool).
i mean those are really broken, but by pushing the format, it makes the game more interesting to play. sort of.
in all honesty though, i feel like most EDH games i've played recently just feel so deflating, in that they're so uninteresting and lead to the game feeling completely broken. and this is coming from a guy who plays unfair decks in legacy and dabbles in vintage.
I really don't get how people can like eminence. Don't you want to, you know, actually play the game? Cast the cards? Use them? How can you be happy with a card that does everything just by being there?
If there was a general with "eminence: when you are tired of the game and want to win, you win the game" would you play it?
Thank god m20 gave us some interesting legends...
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Please NO more eminence. Anything that works from the command zone needs to be looked at very carefully. The command zone and commander tax is there for a reason. Making those two things not matter is detrimental to the format. Cost reducers are one thing, since commander tax still applies, however alternate ways to cheat commanders from the zone, or having abilities that don't even need to be on the battlefield make interaction with the Commander impossible.
There are more creative ways to make commanders useful even when the commander tax gets high, but please don't give them static abilities from the command zone or cheat the commander tax for a flat rate. Eminence is like having a planeswalker emblem turn 0 that you don't have to spend any mana or resources to acquire.
Throughout magic, there have been many mechanics which are either worthless or too powerful and no real middle ground. Storm, Phyrexian Mana, and Eminence among them.
My best freidn bought the Dragon's deck, my wife Wizards and Cats, and I took Edgar Markov's vampires. The Ur Dragon was quickly replaced with Scion of the Ur Dragon as the original commander was weaksauce. Edgar Markov is banned in duels and is quite strong as both a beat down deck and a combo deck because of the free tokens. Inalla has multiple combos built around her triggered ability. The cats deck s a pile of trash, and The Ur Drgaon is much better in the 99 of a Scion of the Ur Dragon deck rather than leading it.
Either the ability is super strong or total garbage. It does nothing good for the game. let the past die. Kill it if you have to.
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"Whatever style you wish to play, be it fast and frenzied or slow and tactical, the surest way to defeat your opponent consistently is by dominating him or her in the war of card advantage." - Brian Wiseman, April 1996
Throughout magic, there have been many mechanics which are either worthless or too powerful and no real middle ground. Storm, Phyrexian Mana, and Eminence among them.
My best freidn bought the Dragon's deck, my wife Wizards and Cats, and I took Edgar Markov's vampires. The Ur Dragon was quickly replaced with Scion of the Ur Dragon as the original commander was weaksauce. Edgar Markov is banned in duels and is quite strong as both a beat down deck and a combo deck because of the free tokens. Inalla has multiple combos built around her triggered ability. The cats deck s a pile of trash, and The Ur Drgaon is much better in the 99 of a Scion of the Ur Dragon deck rather than leading it.
Either the ability is super strong or total garbage. It does nothing good for the game. let the past die. Kill it if you have to.
Lots of people do like the Ur dragon as a commander. Pre-ur-dragon, at least in my estimation, dragon tribal was extremely bad. Now it's just...pretty bad. scion is a fine commander but tends to be more combo-y (usually in the fill the graveyard, then mass reanimate sense). Not so much of a dragon tribal commander, exactly.
ur dragon and the cat guy are both totally fine imo. edgar...well, I know he's supposed to be good but tbh I haven't played against a version of the deck I found particularly scary unless they have a great start with fast mana or something. Inalla I have a deep dislike for, but I haven't seen much of her around.
I think eminence can be...not problematic...probably. It is a tough needle to thread, perhaps, but I think ur dragon and arahbo show us that it can be done. Their abilities are strong, but because they're enabling a very bad deck, they can give that deck a big boost without being a problem. Now should they build more eminence commanders? I don't really want them to generally, but with the right design it could be cool. I don't really think I trust wizards enough to design something I'd personally like, though. Ur-dragon and arahbo are fine, safety-wise, but they don't interest me. And Inalla is kind of a cool ability, but she's too gross power-level-wise for me to want to touch her.
I think it's a threadable needle, but I don't trust wotc to thread it. So I'd rather they didn't try.
Maybe they could print eminence and eminence hate. Something like Torpor Orb but it shuts down eminence abilities.
Please wizard do it as an emblem or eminence ability
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I find it funny how there are always so much people complaining about the lack of interaction with eminence (and emblems too) while that is the key of their design: if you have it, nothing can keep you off it anymore. It’s what sets them apart from similar effects. Wizard knows this, they explained in an article during c17 preview season: they learned from Oloro so they will not do generically usefull eminence abilities. And people who complain about emblems often seem to forget that the person having it spend a few turns getting to the ability with the pw that created it, and the complainer (along with the other opponents) let them by not interacting with it.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
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IMO emminence helped make the ur-dragon deck worthwhile as a way to help make up for the lack luster mana base it shipped with. I've honestly only have added an exploration and a Dragon Arch(why they didn't include this is beyond me) and soon i'll put my amulet of vigor in it.
I am okay with eminence if they keep it extremely tribal specific. I honestly don't like Oloro. I like the eminence mechanic and if the mechanic enables specific tribal decks than signed me up. You can take every tribal from Commander2017 as example. Each one of the Eminence legendaries is a high played card in that tribal. I think only Edgar may be a little over pushed. The other 3 are perfectly fine. In addition the effect you gain when actually casting your Eminence Commander needs to be interesting enough for you to actually want to cast your commander.
I like that they explore design space and ideas, so to that end I don't mind commanders that have a bit of an emblem attached. It gives you another unique way to build your deck and play the game. I do feel that some of them have been a bit stronger than I'd like though.
The eminence abilities we have now are nothing to really complain about and kinda surprised to see them get so much hate now. I mean, I get it feels psychologically annoying that an opponent has an advantage that you can only remove by taking control of it from the battlefield or bouncing it (Or resorting to Mind-slaving and exiling their commander) but like, it's for the most narrow and casual of things.
Ur-Dragon and Arahbo are for meme tribes that will never, ever be taken seriously. (Cries into my Ur-Dragon playmat)
Inalla and Edgar are the most pushed but still far from the most annoying thing even in casual.
M'Odo doesn't count he's your typical stupid fan designed card that one person actually happens to physically own.
Honestly though I'd rather see something new rather than Eminence, but I don't hate it or outright consider it a blight to the format. We've seen how pushed something made for commander can be and none of the current eminence bearers are close to it.
The eminence abilities we have now are nothing to really complain about and kinda surprised to see them get so much hate now. I mean, I get it feels psychologically annoying that an opponent has an advantage that you can only remove by taking control of it from the battlefield or bouncing it (Or resorting to Mind-slaving and exiling their commander) but like, it's for the most narrow and casual of things.
Ur-Dragon and Arahbo are for meme tribes that will never, ever be taken seriously. (Cries into my Ur-Dragon playmat)
Inalla and Edgar are the most pushed but still far from the most annoying thing even in casual.
M'Odo doesn't count he's your typical stupid fan designed card that one person actually happens to physically own.
Honestly though I'd rather see something new rather than Eminence, but I don't hate it or outright consider it a blight to the format. We've seen how pushed something made for commander can be and none of the current eminence bearers are close to it.
greater mossdog is a crappy card, so dredge is a totally fair ability astral steel is a crappy card, so storm is a totally fair ability
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
and if also correct i can garateed you populate will be naya and madness will be rakdos because of maros whole peppermint and cinnamon flavor thing for the decks populate definately fits for peppermint and madness fits for cinnamon
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(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Or a type of interaction that reads: "when the situation X happens, you gain the Y benefit unless one of your opponents does Z to prevent it".
Or an eminence that puts a certain rule on the game and you build around it.
Could be fun but there's a risk on abilities like this. They'll have to be extremely careful.
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic kind of had eminence. Why not something like that? (And why not errata oloro to read "Eminence- blah blah blah, gain two life.
It's a good way of supporting decks that are otherwise lower-tier.
I don't understand why Wizards thought it was a good idea to print cards for a specific format where the mechanics of the card are meant to circumvent a huge part of the format and basically cheat.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
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deck 1 - sea monsters and phasing with a vengeance
deck 2 - mono white knights featuring flanking
deck 3 - mono red prison featuring moon effects on artefacts, enchantments, and on an instant
deck 4 - mono brown deck featuring snow wastes.
or:
deck 1 - alternate wincon tribal
deck 2 - viking theme with a new mechanic that breaks snow-mechanics in vintage and legacy
deck 3 - a lifegain deck that features congregate but always can be cast from the command zone, ala in oathbreaker
deck 4 - a lands deck where there's a mechanic that allows a land to go to the command zone instead of getting nuked, and features the new land, command lotus (adds 3 of your commander's colours to your mana pool).
i mean those are really broken, but by pushing the format, it makes the game more interesting to play. sort of.
in all honesty though, i feel like most EDH games i've played recently just feel so deflating, in that they're so uninteresting and lead to the game feeling completely broken. and this is coming from a guy who plays unfair decks in legacy and dabbles in vintage.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
If there was a general with "eminence: when you are tired of the game and want to win, you win the game" would you play it?
Thank god m20 gave us some interesting legends...
There are more creative ways to make commanders useful even when the commander tax gets high, but please don't give them static abilities from the command zone or cheat the commander tax for a flat rate. Eminence is like having a planeswalker emblem turn 0 that you don't have to spend any mana or resources to acquire.
My best freidn bought the Dragon's deck, my wife Wizards and Cats, and I took Edgar Markov's vampires. The Ur Dragon was quickly replaced with Scion of the Ur Dragon as the original commander was weaksauce. Edgar Markov is banned in duels and is quite strong as both a beat down deck and a combo deck because of the free tokens. Inalla has multiple combos built around her triggered ability. The cats deck s a pile of trash, and The Ur Drgaon is much better in the 99 of a Scion of the Ur Dragon deck rather than leading it.
Either the ability is super strong or total garbage. It does nothing good for the game. let the past die. Kill it if you have to.
ur dragon and the cat guy are both totally fine imo. edgar...well, I know he's supposed to be good but tbh I haven't played against a version of the deck I found particularly scary unless they have a great start with fast mana or something. Inalla I have a deep dislike for, but I haven't seen much of her around.
I think eminence can be...not problematic...probably. It is a tough needle to thread, perhaps, but I think ur dragon and arahbo show us that it can be done. Their abilities are strong, but because they're enabling a very bad deck, they can give that deck a big boost without being a problem. Now should they build more eminence commanders? I don't really want them to generally, but with the right design it could be cool. I don't really think I trust wizards enough to design something I'd personally like, though. Ur-dragon and arahbo are fine, safety-wise, but they don't interest me. And Inalla is kind of a cool ability, but she's too gross power-level-wise for me to want to touch her.
I think it's a threadable needle, but I don't trust wotc to thread it. So I'd rather they didn't try.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Please wizard do it as an emblem or eminence ability
Tax Break - As long as your Commander tax is # or more...
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Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Eminence (blah blah blah) whenever a non token creature with power 4 or greated enter battlefield under your control it gains haste until end of turn.
Creatures you control have first strike, trample and vigilance.
Basic and not tribal focused.
Ur-Dragon and Arahbo are for meme tribes that will never, ever be taken seriously. (Cries into my Ur-Dragon playmat)
Inalla and Edgar are the most pushed but still far from the most annoying thing even in casual.
M'Odo doesn't count he's your typical stupid fan designed card that one person actually happens to physically own.
Honestly though I'd rather see something new rather than Eminence, but I don't hate it or outright consider it a blight to the format. We've seen how pushed something made for commander can be and none of the current eminence bearers are close to it.
greater mossdog is a crappy card, so dredge is a totally fair ability
astral steel is a crappy card, so storm is a totally fair ability
https://www.blackfire.eu/product.php?id=33368
if this is correct
its
madness
flashback
morph
populate
and if also correct i can garateed you populate will be naya and madness will be rakdos because of maros whole peppermint and cinnamon flavor thing for the decks populate definately fits for peppermint and madness fits for cinnamon