Having one color completely unable to handle a card type is annoying but livable. Having two colors completely unable to handle a card type just leads to too many feel-bads.
I'm curious as to what "with limitations" looks like. Sorcery-speed only? Pay life to do it? Do it as a punisher effect?
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
So you'd have to say needs to be around 5 or less mana, otherwise there is no point sort of trying to break the mold with artifacts or colorless already able to do this.
I feel like it doesn't need to be nerfed all that much. Maybe 2BB sorcery that removes creature or enchantment is fine.
Ought to have limits, to maintain color identity. Black is a color with limitation, BUT it could break limitation with excessive cost. Phyrexian Tribute is a good example, and sacrificing creatures isn't necessary a bad thing for the color of graveyard.
Interesting. We haven't had a color capable of removing enchantments but not artifacts before.
Initial thoughts are that an overcosted demystify in black won't get played. Realistically, even a 4cmc destroy creature or enchantment is still pretty weak, even as an instant (definitely as a sorcery). To really see play here, it needs to be really efficient or really powerful, which "with limitations" doesn't really sound like to me. But we'll see.
Will the first one be terrible and undercooked because they're afraid of pushing the envelope, or will they overreach yet again and print something ridiculously playable? I'm leaning towards the former, but a lead up to the latter will please me greatly. Eat *****, Karma.
What would black enchantment removal even look like?
Void Prison1BB
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose one life.
When Void Prison comes into play, exile target enchantment or creature until Void Prison leaves the battlefield.
Innocent ManaB
Sorcery
Each player sacrifices an enchantment.
Therosian Tribute2B
Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast this spell, sacrifice two creatures.
Destroy target enchantment.
**** You in ParticularBBB
Sorcery
Target opponent sacrifices an enchantment, then loses life equal to that enchantment's converted mana cost.
Just spit balling off the top of my head. I'm kinda with Dirk in that I think an overcosted removal spell simply will not be played, but MaRo's "limitations" qualifier has me thinking it will be edict and/or life loss based.
I think forced sacrifice is going to be in blacks wheelhouse. It will take care of single enchantments well enough, but is weak against enchantress. I can also see target enchantment kill with limits, like destroying auras, or with a creature sacrifice or life loss as part of the cost (though with a creature sac it'll probably hit creatures as well, Phyrexian tributaries is underpowered), limit on cmc, put life tax on the upkeep of the enchantment (at the beginning of the controllers upkeep, they pay x life or sac) etc.
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Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
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Color pie is a feeling. As long as it "feels" Black, I am all for it. Expanding the power level of available cards divided by number of slots in the deck has always been enough incentive to add other colors. Giving Black straight-up Mortify would not stop anyone from playing White.
At the very least, if it's not better than the colorless options we already have, WotC wouldn't bother printing it. I can't see anything costing more than 2. Current on-pie colors get the effect for 1. It's pretty throwaway.
At the very least, if it's not better than the colorless options we already have, WotC wouldn't bother printing it. I can't see anything costing more than 2. Current on-pie colors get the effect for 1. It's pretty throwaway.
im aware of that whats morely going on is the black/rakdos players will have a much better access to enchantment removal
most likely the limitation is "additonal cost" type of thing
Phew, black was pretty underpowered in EDH and needed the boost. And before I read the blog post, I was concerned that he might make the mistake of letting some of the currently overpowered colours such as white or red do new things too - thank goodness he had the sense to contain them before they break the format.
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EDH RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Phew, black was pretty underpowered in EDH and needed the boost.
Mono-black perhaps, but then again most mono-color is less popular than multi-color unless you have more cards like Endless Atlas. I don't mind seeing more cards returning to black's roots of "power at any cost", like Imp's Mischief and Stunning Reversal.
Black is gonna learn how to remove enchantments
Ehcnatment removak will no longer be Selesnya focused now it’s gonna be abzan focused
What are your thoughts?
Having one color completely unable to handle a card type is annoying but livable. Having two colors completely unable to handle a card type just leads to too many feel-bads.
I'm curious as to what "with limitations" looks like. Sorcery-speed only? Pay life to do it? Do it as a punisher effect?
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
That way you don’t get to choose?
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
So you'd have to say needs to be around 5 or less mana, otherwise there is no point sort of trying to break the mold with artifacts or colorless already able to do this.
I feel like it doesn't need to be nerfed all that much. Maybe 2BB sorcery that removes creature or enchantment is fine.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Makes sense since Black can already make a player sac permanent(s).
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
voidicate BB
instant
pay half your life rounded up: destroy target enchantment.
i thought the flavour for black was always 'can do anything, as long as you're willing to pay for it'.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Initial thoughts are that an overcosted demystify in black won't get played. Realistically, even a 4cmc destroy creature or enchantment is still pretty weak, even as an instant (definitely as a sorcery). To really see play here, it needs to be really efficient or really powerful, which "with limitations" doesn't really sound like to me. But we'll see.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Will the first one be terrible and undercooked because they're afraid of pushing the envelope, or will they overreach yet again and print something ridiculously playable? I'm leaning towards the former, but a lead up to the latter will please me greatly. Eat *****, Karma.
What would black enchantment removal even look like?
Void Prison 1BB
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, you lose one life.
When Void Prison comes into play, exile target enchantment or creature until Void Prison leaves the battlefield.
Innocent Mana B
Sorcery
Each player sacrifices an enchantment.
Therosian Tribute 2B
Sorcery
As an additional cost to cast this spell, sacrifice two creatures.
Destroy target enchantment.
**** You in Particular BBB
Sorcery
Target opponent sacrifices an enchantment, then loses life equal to that enchantment's converted mana cost.
Just spit balling off the top of my head. I'm kinda with Dirk in that I think an overcosted removal spell simply will not be played, but MaRo's "limitations" qualifier has me thinking it will be edict and/or life loss based.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
im aware of that whats morely going on is the black/rakdos players will have a much better access to enchantment removal
most likely the limitation is "additonal cost" type of thing
RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck
RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Arena Standard
UUUU Tempo, since before it was cool
Various Wx decks running Fountain of Renewal and Day of Glory
Anything I can cram Chaos Wand in to
Mono-black perhaps, but then again most mono-color is less popular than multi-color unless you have more cards like Endless Atlas. I don't mind seeing more cards returning to black's roots of "power at any cost", like Imp's Mischief and Stunning Reversal.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs